2010 Nations Grand Prix

[ufunacaoenn]

oke:

Yuri you dont understand his sentence at all. 2 Yers equal experience and experience means it's easier to do things compare to those with no experience.

Anyhow I will seriously not give any further comments.

 

[John Cunningham]

well said craig hume

 

[Ross Balfour]

Here's my 2 cents, as someone who has run a league and also who has raced in leagues.
If you have never run a league, then please keep your comments to yourself about how things must be done and who's to blame for what. Cause you have absolutely no idea how much work goes into this. True, some things could of been done differently, but get off your high horses for a second. In a sick and twisted manner, hopefully alot of you learn from this. You know those races you sign up for, and then just dont pitch for it(especially towards the end of the season). This is what it feels like to all those admin that put in many hours of work just for you to say you will be there and then you just dont arrive. But do you see them throwing their toys out the cot like some of you are doing. If running a league or championship was so easy, i guess RD and Ross would not be struggling to get committed people to help.

Rather accept the decision and thank the NGP team and RD for at least making the effort, and putting in the time to get this up and running.
Everyone has a personal life that takes president sometimes. And yes, admin and organisers are also people with families and responsibility. They dont just sit infront of their computers waiting to help us out 24/7

Bullet proof jacket on, Feel free to throw all your comments in my direction now.

So, from my side. Thanks to Ross and his team and thanks to RD for the oppurtunity to have taken part in this. I was always and will always be proud to have race for my country.

Thanks a lot mate, Nations GP may resume in the future, but not this side of the summer.

 

[Werner Van Aswegen]

A pity for sure. Thanks Ross and everyone else that put effort into trying to get this off the ground. Until we meet again

 

[Marco Sbordoni]

...i think that idea about nations league was great.A good way to have fun together and try to feel italian (for us team).
Waiting for new idea ;-)
A big ciao and grazie to all that worked and partecipated at league....

 

[Johan Bergqvist]

Thanks to Ross and the rest of the team and thanks to RD for the oppurtunity to have taken part in this.
I was however hopefull of a third try.

 

[Dave Flower]

Wtf - if it doesn't work but has so many people behind it, surley the answer is to recruit helpers from the drivers and possibly move back to cars and tracks that ship with the game - or limit to only tracks that are loaded on RD and are KNOWN not to cause problems and conflict.

I have seen problems elsewhere with other leagues using mods that cause headaches and conflicts resulting in people having to do fresh installs and delete all other mods.

I am no league genius and speak from a position of INExperience - but it seems sometimes the additional work (on top of all the skin files and server setting up) by having a league with all the whistles and bells (mods) overwhelms the individuals in the league (wether thats admin, servers, drivers, whatever) and this is when it starts to fall apart.

Please though guys don't resort to mud slinging and personal attacks like a few pages back - its pointless, its counter productive, it leaves a bad taste and above all else I and many others are here at RD in part because thats not the RD way.

I haven't read every thread here maybe 30 or 40 pages at both ends - but theres 273 pages all together (just for season 3) and that says to me its something that should NOT be killed on a whim by people angry and frustrated at each other. When all that really went wrong is a (catastrophic) glitch in getting the files to work on the server correctly. Sure it also looks as though there was a (fairly major) breakdown in communication, leading to the FAILiue to get a server up and running.

I have to say as an outsider my gut feeling on this is that somewhere someone has a hidden agenda and is happy that this has been cancelled - now before you all jump up n down and flame me - stop and think in your hearts you will know where responsibility for this failiure lies - that may be a someone who has agreed to do more than they can, but does not want to loose face by admitting its too much, it could be someone seeiing the potential success of the league as a threat to their own, it could be someone with a dislike for the league or the people running it, (and don't think only the 'staff' involved as it would not be the first time in history that a gaming server and its files were compromised by the competition (note - I do NOT know of this happening to RD - but even Government Servers have been attacked so it is possible) - or it could just be my overactive gut and brain reading too much into it - if thats the case sorry - if not and there is even the slightest suspicion of deliberate sabbotage of this league then it needs looking into.

Rant over.. - grown up objective - non emotional replies only please..

There I go again... - lighting at arms length and standing well back...

 

[Robert McColl]

Craig ....Well said my friend and i am sure your comment holds a lot of water.BUT having said that i think Ross prolly did his part to the hilt.We all seem to be missing the point here........ its not Ross but the person whom has not been named that i think did TWO simple stuff UPS. Firstly that person failed to setup the server. Secondly if he failed or could not make it then why didnt he call someone of authority to assist with the problem.

I dont know much about setting up servers to race on but it cant be such a big issue specially when everything is in place and all it really needs (I think) is the appointed person to make sure the server is up and running.And if that person has a problem on the day then i am sure there are quiet a few other RD members that could ensure that all goes off smoothly.

Twice in a row doesnt sound like Ross or the organisers .................... The guilty party is the one that was appointed to do monitoring of that specific RACE.

 

[Ross Balfour]

Wtf - if it doesn't work but has so many people behind it, surley the answer is to recruit helpers from the drivers and possibly move back to cars and tracks that ship with the game - or limit to only tracks that are loaded on RD and are KNOWN not to cause problems and conflict.

I have seen problems elsewhere with other leagues using mods that cause headaches and conflicts resulting in people having to do fresh installs and delete all other mods.

I am no league genius and speak from a position of INExperience - but it seems sometimes the additional work (on top of all the skin files and server setting up) by having a league with all the whistles and bells (mods) overwhelms the individuals in the league (wether thats admin, servers, drivers, whatever) and this is when it starts to fall apart.

Please though guys don't resort to mud slinging and personal attacks like a few pages back - its pointless, its counter productive, it leaves a bad taste and above all else I and many others are here at RD in part because thats not the RD way.

I haven't read every thread here maybe 30 or 40 pages at both ends - but theres 273 pages all together (just for season 3) and that says to me its something that should NOT be killed on a whim by people angry and frustrated at each other. When all that really went wrong is a (catastrophic) glitch in getting the files to work on the server correctly. Sure it also looks as though there was a (fairly major) breakdown in communication, leading to the FAILiue to get a server up and running.

I have to say as an outsider my gut feeling on this is that somewhere someone has a hidden agenda and is happy that this has been cancelled - now before you all jump up n down and flame me - stop and think in your hearts you will know where responsibility for this failiure lies - that may be a someone who has agreed to do more than they can, but does not want to loose face by admitting its too much, it could be someone seeiing the potential success of the league as a threat to their own, it could be someone with a dislike for the league or the people running it, (and don't think only the 'staff' involved as it would not be the first time in history that a gaming server and its files were compromised by the competition (note - I do NOT know of this happening to RD - but even Government Servers have been attacked so it is possible) - or it could just be my overactive gut and brain reading too much into it - if thats the case sorry - if not and there is even the slightest suspicion of deliberate sabbotage of this league then it needs looking into.

Rant over.. - grown up objective - non emotional replies only please..

There I go again... - lighting at arms length and standing well back...

Wasn't my choice to cancel it, many people pulled out and lsot interest, then admins cancelled it, nothing I can do I'm afriad

Craig ....Well said my friend and i am sure your comment holds a lot of water.BUT having said that i think Ross prolly did his part to the hilt.We all seem to be missing the point here........ its not Ross but the person whom has not been named that i think did TWO simple stuff UPS. Firstly that person failed to setup the server. Secondly if he failed or could not make it then why didnt he call someone of authority to assist with the problem.

I dont know much about setting up servers to race on but it cant be such a big issue specially when everything is in place and all it really needs (I think) is the appointed person to make sure the server is up and running.And if that person has a problem on the day then i am sure there are quiet a few other RD members that could ensure that all goes off smoothly.

Twice in a row doesnt sound like Ross or the organisers .................... The guilty party is the one that was appointed to do monitoring of that specific RACE.

Thanks mate, unfortunately that's the way it went, I can't blame this person fully as he is not a proper member of the NGP staff, I just asked him a while ago if he provide server assistance and he obliged. If the server went up, the race would of ran smoothly and the race would not need watched, just a shame as I said before, one small error costs a huge amount of work into nothing.

 

[Ihab Abbas]

Hello,​

After watching the all posts around these are my points of view:​

1- Thanks for the efforts that Ross and other admins put.
2- The clear msg from all of that is to get everything ready ahead of each round, (League admins and RD admins responsibility).
3- When you have an accident during a race you do not cry, you just try your best to get back to the pit to have everything fixed and return to the track ASAP, so let's take the NGP to the pit try to fix all the issues and get back to the course.​

My suggestions:​

1- At the race day, some of the admins must show up and they should have all the keys of everything would help the race running on that day.
2- Let's discuss a reasonable mod to start a new season with.
3- Make some club events with the mod allowing costume skins.
4- Try to broadcast one of these events so you can make sure that no problems with that issue.
5- Start over the NGP new season.​

Ross I wish you all the best.​

 

[Austin Jordan]

#3 can't happen as we are the only ones allowed to use it. #4 was gonna happen at rattlesnake and #1 should of happened but we failed to do that. great post ihhab. love seeing smart and calm post

 

[Freddie Besems]

Ihab, totally agree with you.


We could take the R8 Audi. It has been used already in some events (organised by Yves) and we haven't been driving it since a longe time on RD.

Also its skinnable.


But the Clio is still fine to do and it was almost finished to use, so think it is no problem to use the Clio.



Ross, hope we can start all over and you know im willing to help.

 

[Ethan Bass]

Shame we can't use the Clio mod for club events like in the past. If the NGP must be done with a mod/new car, why not the DTM mod?

I don't see it too much, so people may not have that much practice with it. Just my two cents on the car class discussion.

It is a shame that the season won't happen, I was really looking forward to representing Scotland, and can't wait for the next one.

Good luck all.

 

[Ross Balfour]

Maybe we could organise some "Nations Club Races" where one driver from each nation takes part or something, but as for league organising, I have enough on my plate to start from scratch again, but I promise you guys - NGP will return eventually!

 

[Austin Jordan]

if it returns i will not participate. sorry but just didn't work

 

[Dave Stephenson]

firstly, apologies for not getting to this thread until now.

I was said admin that didn't get the server up on Friday night, there was an issue with steam that needed resolving however ATCC was already up and running with broadcasts rolling so I couldn't attend to it right away. by the time I embedded the streams I had forgotten to post in the staff forums for someone to take a look at the server for me on Saturday morning.

There was though time in my opinion to contact someone about it on Saturday morning and I'm a little surprised that didn't happen, but I guess its water under the bridge now, and I understand how Ross feels regarding that but I was halfway across the country on Saturday before I realised what I'd done.

This has been compounded somewhat on both occasions by the teams set-up using a patch to the standard mod and not just the skinning system. Had the skinning system been a standard one race 1 would have been able to go ahead as planned, but it fell down at the patch when staff jumped in to help. This appears to have been the case with last weekends race when Remco tried to apply the server.

I think its fair to say that as a whole there have been failings by both myself and the league admins, and I hope we can live and learn from it. I know I certainly will. If anyone would like to discuss further with myself feel free to drop me a PM.

 

[Keith Barrick]

Just found out about this now, but would like to give my thoughts on the situation.

As an outsider looking in, the first thing that jumps out at me is why the mod/skins were never tested in a "Preseason race." I use that term because it wouldve been outside of the RD Club. You couldve organized it very easily through the RD server and NGP forums which are so gracefully provided to the league. Doing so you wouldve discovered any and all issues. If the issues began pushing into the start of the league, you couldve rescheduled and continued running preseason events until all issues were sorted.

Secondly, as a league organizer myself I understand how much work goes into starting and running a league. But Ross, if you are committing to starting something that has a large group of people following you, would it not make sense that the person they are following be around when the event is taking place? Of course real life takes priority over simracing, but after the first race incident why not make sure you were available for the second to ensure everything went smoothly? Would you not want to ensure that all of your planning, and hard work came together as planned? When there is a large following of people to something you create, you have an obligation to the people who have put their faith in you and your league. If the obligation is too much, dont start something you cant finish. It puts teams, and individuals out for all their time testing, skinning, and planning. The success of a league is determined by the organizers commitment to what he started.

I dont know all the details behind server prep/mod prep. But from what I can read, the mod that was created (also having skins in the mod) caused a nightmare server side. It also seemed to me that the admins went over and above their responsibility, after realizing the event could not happen by taking on the role of the event organizer and informing the racers signed up for NGP that the event could not happen. If anything the RD staff deserve thanks for doing your job. There is no reason for the mod not to be tested prior to them setting up the server for race 1. Even you couldve setup a dedicated server through steam and had people join it. Then you wouldve known of the issue and could resolve it before the RD staff were to setup the free server provided to you.

This league has/had a great following, and its demise is a result of lackluster preparation and nothing else. When introducing a mod into a game like Race 07 you are playing with fire. Just look at STC and the issues they had to deal with while using a custom mod. They did due diligence and test and sorted things out prior to their seasons starting. ATCC is running a custom mod for the season, and it is being tested and retested, so there are no issues. If the necessary prep work was organized by the league staff, I wouldnt be posting thing, and noone would be upset. The failure lies ONLY on the staffs decisions and time management.

I would like to also thank RD for their support in allowing an outside league to use their servers, at no cost. I now understand the costs associated with servers and feel you guys go over and above to provide the members here the best opportunity to race in any form.

Keith

 

[David Lemon]

Perhaps a little bit of guidance from senior staff would have been better than accusing Ross (who is only 15yrs old) of lacklustre preparation, he (and the rest of the team) have done an exceptional job in the previous 2 seasons and should be encouraged to continue with this league rather than use words like failure and demise.

 

[Günthar Rowe]

Firstly, you should use a Mod that you can get support with. Not a dig here about my Mod being used that was culled by someone that had 1% input. But, if you are going to run a league with a mod you need to have someone to make it work as you want it to work, not as it was released to the general public.

I have a number of mods that I believe would work great in this format, like the DTM 2010's, Toyota AE86 (Club or WTCC), Megane Trophy 2008... All are either single car mods or like the DTM run identical car physics and from these there is quite a range in how hard or easy they are to drive.

Otherwise, use a single car from SimBin's range like the Audi R8 or the BMW M3 GTR. Both are great and used before here at RD, which if need be can be built to form a mini-mod if need be.

 

[Brendan Crosby]

AE86 league would be awesome