2021 Formula One Saudi Arabian Grand Prix

paracletus · Dec 7, 2021

Neither of them deserve the DC this year, for creating threads like this. Let Botass and Norris fight it out for the glory

This is a farce - literally a soap opera/pantomime.

LeSunTzu · Dec 7, 2021

paracletus said:
Neither of them deserve the DC this year, for creating threads like this. Let Botass and Norris fight it out for the glory
This is a farce - literally a soap opera/pantomime.

There was an interesting interview of Nicolas Lapierre on Eurosport a few months ago in which he gave his views about the Silverstone accident and the title fight generally. He was saying that people focused on the accident instead of the battle before and therefore failed to recognize that the level of Hamilton and Verstappen on track has been amazingly high this year.

Kingkoenig · Dec 7, 2021

Patrik Marek said:
I hear what you are saying, but do not underestimate the pressure of media / crazy fans, paparazzi
there were lot of celebrities who destroyed their lives because they couldn't handle the pressure ( drugs, alcohol etc.)

yes, racing condition in those days were something very different, and while arguable the act of driving the car got easier, the speed and g-forces are somewhere else

it kinda reminds me of Fighter Pilots,
I'm sure lot of people will say how the WW2 or even WW1 fighter pilots where the "proper" pilots, and that nowadays pilots couldn't do what they did , planes full of computers, practically flying themselves

but put that old WW2 veteran into a modern fighterplane, and he will black out and crash

yes, talent is talent, but you have to train and get up to speed with the modern equipment, whereas in the old days, you could drive F1 car as a person with not much experience
- now I'm not sayign you could drive it fast / on the limit, but you could get it and drive it , for modern F1 car, you will probbly stuggle to get it going and once you get it going, you will struggle to make the corners becasue you will be too slow for downforce to work

Just to make it clear, I was writing based on the assumption that drivers from the past would get the same training as drivers of today. In other words, if Clark had been born in 1997, he would be just as good as Verstappen, Hamilton, etc.

The opposite is also true. There’s no doubt in my mind that if Alonso, Hamilton and the other greats of the present era had been born in 1937, they would have been excellent in the cars of the fifties and sixties. (They may even have had more fun… But that’s another question.) As I wrote, talent is talent, no matter the era.

As for your last point, yes, back then, just about anybody with some money could buy a F1 and enter a race. Some races, like South Africa or Canada, always had a small group of local racers. But when you look at the results of the races, you see a lot of drivers classified many laps behind the leader because, well… They sucked. The extreme example, I am embarrassed to point out, is my fellow Canadian Al Pease, who has the very dubious distinction of being the only driver black flagged for being too slow not because of a mechanical issue, but because he was simply too bad.

Cars of today are a lot more complicated, yes, but trust me, a racer is a racer. In the end, you have to be fast. The rest is simply learned along the way. The « old guys » would get it pretty quickly. (I am also pretty sure that Clark would look at DRS and ERS and think: you guys really need this stuff to race?)

paracletus · Dec 7, 2021

LeSunTzu said:
There was an interesting interview of Nicolas Lapierre on Eurosport a few months ago in which he gave his views about the Silverstone accident and the title fight generally. He was saying that people focused on the accident instead of the battle before and therefore failed to recognize that the level of Hamilton and Verstappen on track has been amazingly high this year.

Yes, that's a fair comment in all honesty.
Also a couple of other drivers have performed brilliant, given the car they've got.

Kingkoenig · Dec 8, 2021

paracletus said:
Yes, that's a fair comment in all honesty.
Also a couple of other drivers have performed brilliant, given the car they've got.

I agree. Verstappen's behavior on track is highly questionable, but when it comes to talent, he's off the charts. So is Hamilton who has to really fight for the title and has shown why he's a phenomenal driver.

Gasly is doing wonders with Alpha Tauri.

davehenrie · Dec 8, 2021

paracletus said:
Neither of them deserve the DC this year, for creating threads like this. Let Botass and Norris fight it out for the glory
This is a farce - literally a soap opera/pantomime.

What about the two drivers AHEAD of St Lando or another just behind?

sonicviz · Dec 8, 2021

muzikant said:
well by the British media Verstappen is portrayed as a bad boy .. the pathetic really pathetic. We have seen how nasty Lewis raced this year your message is rubbish

Your hypocrisy and extreme bias is showing again, as it does in pretty much every post you make.

>>well by the British media Verstappen is portrayed as a bad boy .. the pathetic really pathetic

Dutch media rabidly support MV, how is that different?
Is that pathetic too? Or is that "different" because MV?

Not to mention MV's travelling barmy army, their most notable recent achievement being to boo loudly at the Dutch GP, even when MV won. Maybe it was because LH flounced off the podium in a huff...oh,wait, that wasn't it.

https://www.crash.net/f1/feature/904148/1/max-factor-how-verstappens-fans-have-changed-f1

Is that pathetic too? Or is that "different" because MV?

Booing has happened only a few times in F1 history fortunately (https://racingnews365.com/has-booing-in-f1-become-more-problematic), but today's rabid mancrush fanbois (in particular MV's) now seem intent on turning it into a football match atmosphere. Lucky the last few GP's are in places they can't easily get to (bc cost/covid), otherwise it would no doubt be a complete **** show.

>>We have seen how nasty Lewis raced this year your message is rubbish

This is you, ranting over that nasty hobbit LH and how he's stolen your precious ring, MV:

lol. All this over a car race.
It's sad that what once was a great series has been reduced to panem et circenses in order to sell ads.

At least https://www.extreme-e.com/ is trying to do something a little more balanced, and put the race back in racing. Ironically, though it's primarily F1 driver owned teams at the top of the leaderboard, it's missing most of the bad baggage of F1 series.

muzikant · Dec 8, 2021

sonicviz said:
Your hypocrisy and extreme bias is showing again, as it does in pretty much every post you make.

>>well by the British media Verstappen is portrayed as a bad boy .. the pathetic really pathetic

Dutch media rabidly support MV, how is that different?
Is that pathetic too? Or is that "different" because MV?

Not to mention MV's travelling barmy army, their most notable recent achievement being to boo loudly at the Dutch GP, even when MV won. Maybe it was because LH flounced off the podium in a huff...oh,wait, that wasn't it.

https://www.crash.net/f1/feature/904148/1/max-factor-how-verstappens-fans-have-changed-f1
Is that pathetic too? Or is that "different" because MV?

Booing has happened only a few times in F1 history fortunately (https://racingnews365.com/has-booing-in-f1-become-more-problematic), but today's rabid mancrush fanbois (in particular MV's) now seem intent on turning it into a football match atmosphere. Lucky the last few GP's are in places they can't easily get to (bc cost/covid), otherwise it would no doubt be a complete **** show.

>>We have seen how nasty Lewis raced this year your message is rubbish

This is you, ranting over that nasty hobbit LH and how he's stolen your precious ring, MV:

lol. All this over a car race.
It's sad that what once was a great series has been reduced to panem et circenses in order to sell ads.

At least https://www.extreme-e.com/ is trying to do something a little more balanced, and put the race back in racing.

that's quite a message. Well fine if we disagree.

sonicviz · Dec 8, 2021

muzikant said:
that's quite a message. Well fine if we disagree.

Oh no! https://racingnews365.com/marko-apologises-for-comments-on-hamilton-verstappen-clash

>>Last Race "strategies"

Herbert: Only Verstappen would cause title-deciding crash | RacingNews365

Ex-F1 driver Johnny Herbert has weighed in on the 2021 title fight between Max Verstappen and Lewis Hamilton, which will go down to the wire at the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix.

racingnews365.com

I'm curious to see if MV is stupid enough to try to win by taking out LH and potentially killing/maiming himself, LH, and/or others to secure a win by countback. It's an intelligence test, because by doing that he'll have sealed his fate in F1 history as an even bigger flawed champion than Michael Schumacher https://bleacherreport.com/articles...er-from-flawed-champion-to-sympathetic-figure, whether he goes on to win more or not. He'll be like a really bad fart hanging around the F1 room for the rest of his career.

Whoever wins, I hope it's done clean with sportsmanship. Wishful thinking at this point, but you can hope!

PS: No, it's nothing like the Silverstone Racing Incident so don't even go there.

Damage Inc · Dec 8, 2021

Amereto1 said:
That's why I phrased it "Was a thing" meaning before when Facebook was something to share happy thoughts and moments with family and friends and not the political social dividing tools these things have become. Just have to read these comments to see that!

Hamilton's fan base didn't start on social media, you had to turn on the telly and watch the kid to see him perform, there wasn't even a dedicated F1 channel back then, You got a few hours every race weekend and that's it, unlike today when there are endless, clips, blogs, youtubers, threads, post's, media companies, social media companies, etc all influencing people on how to think, act, what to say, what not to say, who to support and who to hate.

Yes but when Lewis started to dominate (2014) the social media monster was in full swing and the "new" fans from that platform are horrendous.

Damage Inc · Dec 8, 2021

Patrik Marek said:
I hear what you are saying, but do not underestimate the pressure of media / crazy fans, paparazzi
there were lot of celebrities who destroyed their lives because they couldn't handle the pressure ( drugs, alcohol etc.)

yes, racing condition in those days were something very different, and while arguable the act of driving the car got easier, the speed and g-forces are somewhere else

it kinda reminds me of Fighter Pilots,
I'm sure lot of people will say how the WW2 or even WW1 fighter pilots where the "proper" pilots, and that nowadays pilots couldn't do what they did , planes full of computers, practically flying themselves

but put that old WW2 veteran into a modern fighterplane, and he will black out and crash

yes, talent is talent, but you have to train and get up to speed with the modern equipment, whereas in the old days, you could drive F1 car as a person with not much experience
- now I'm not sayign you could drive it fast / on the limit, but you could get it and drive it , for modern F1 car, you will probbly stuggle to get it going and once you get it going, you will struggle to make the corners becasue you will be too slow for downforce to work

I dunno, hitting close to 200 mph in an old auto union would be pant filling!!! And that's just in a straight line. It's probably similar to motorbiking...you "feel" the speed SO much more because you are so exposed. Plus any slight mistake and you're probably injured/dead...again like motorbiking. The hardest thing about modern F1 would be as you say "switching on" the tyres and keeping them there....ok and the g forces

.

Damage Inc · Dec 8, 2021

sonicviz said:
Oh no! https://racingnews365.com/marko-apologises-for-comments-on-hamilton-verstappen-clash

>>Last Race "strategies"

Herbert: Only Verstappen would cause title-deciding crash | RacingNews365

Ex-F1 driver Johnny Herbert has weighed in on the 2021 title fight between Max Verstappen and Lewis Hamilton, which will go down to the wire at the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix.

racingnews365.com

I'm curious to see if MV is stupid enough to try to win by taking out LH and potentially killing/maiming himself, LH, and/or others to secure a win by countback. It's an intelligence test, because by doing that he'll have sealed his fate in F1 history as an even bigger flawed champion than Michael Schumacher https://bleacherreport.com/articles...er-from-flawed-champion-to-sympathetic-figure, whether he goes on to win more or not. He'll be like a really bad fart hanging around the F1 room for the rest of his career.

Whoever wins, I hope it's done clean with sportsmanship. Wishful thinking at this point, but you can hope!

PS: No, it's nothing like the Silverstone Racing Incident so don't even go there.

biggest fart hanging in the room is the hybrid F1 era...it's been crap unless you support a certain team or driver. I thought Ferrari's/Schumachers dominance was bad, it wasn't a patch on this crap show period. But there's no doubt in my mind the racing "god" Lewis will win the title to become the Ali of F1, it's been too scripted IMO. (and yes I understand Lewis has played a big part in the success...but we all know there's more to success in F1 than pure driving talent).

sonicviz · Dec 8, 2021

Damage Inc said:
biggest fart hanging in the room is the hybrid F1 era...it's been crap unless you support a certain team or driver. I thought Ferrari's/Schumachers dominance was bad, it wasn't a patch on this crap show period. But there's no doubt in my mind the racing "god" Lewis will win the title to become the Ali of F1, it's been too scripted IMO. (and yes I understand Lewis has played a big part in the success...but we all know there's more to success in F1 than pure driving talent).

Skilful and dangerous as it can be, it's boring af with it devolving to it being a football match on wheels.
Rip the technical rule book up and stick them all in the same car, with minimal changes.

Even better, stick them all in mercs

muzikant · Dec 8, 2021

sonicviz said:
Oh no! https://racingnews365.com/marko-apologises-for-comments-on-hamilton-verstappen-clash

>>Last Race "strategies"

Herbert: Only Verstappen would cause title-deciding crash | RacingNews365

Ex-F1 driver Johnny Herbert has weighed in on the 2021 title fight between Max Verstappen and Lewis Hamilton, which will go down to the wire at the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix.

racingnews365.com

I'm curious to see if MV is stupid enough to try to win by taking out LH and potentially killing/maiming himself, LH, and/or others to secure a win by countback. It's an intelligence test, because by doing that he'll have sealed his fate in F1 history as an even bigger flawed champion than Michael Schumacher https://bleacherreport.com/articles...er-from-flawed-champion-to-sympathetic-figure, whether he goes on to win more or not. He'll be like a really bad fart hanging around the F1 room for the rest of his career.

Whoever wins, I hope it's done clean with sportsmanship. Wishful thinking at this point, but you can hope!

PS: No, it's nothing like the Silverstone Racing Incident so don't even go there.

you write very long posts on silverstone basically it all started, don't read that much british press they have quite an influence because 80% is. Schumacher and Alonso had the same, be happy that the FIA has leveled the score through all the decision
and that your hero with all the gifts from the FIA still has a chance to win the world championship that actually already went to Max because he made the fewest mistakes

Amereto1 · Dec 8, 2021

Damage Inc said:
(and yes I understand Lewis has played a big part in the success...but we all know there's more to success in F1 than pure driving talent).

And when has F1 EVER, I repeat "EVER" been different in it's entire history?

Let's take Fangio as an example so people can better understand this sport.
Openly considered one of the greats by winning 5 world championships and always included in the so called conversation of the "GOAT".
He won 4 of his champions between 1954-1957 with 3 different teams, he did not sign multi year contracts because he had heavy financial backing and could buy his way into whatever team had built the fastest car that year, he was even racing for Maserati one season, when Mercedes built a faster car he left mid season to drive the Mercedes to clinch another title, he would even take over his team mates car if it was quicker or more reliable.
In his last championship winning season his team mate a very good driver by the name of Peter Collins was about to win the title, Fangio had the influence to stop Collins finishing the race so he could jump in the car, they shared the points and Fangio was crowned champion.
This was in the 50's so the relation between car and driver in this sport has always been about which team builds the best car.

Damage Inc · Dec 8, 2021

Amereto1 said:
And when has F1 EVER, I repeat "EVER" been different in it's entire history?

Let's take Fangio as an example so people can better understand this sport.
Openly considered one of the greats by winning 5 world championships and always included in the so called conversation of the "GOAT".
He won 4 of his champions between 1954-1957 with 3 different teams, he did not sign multi year contracts because he had heavy financial backing and could buy his way into whatever team had built the fastest car that year, he was even racing for Maserati one season, when Mercedes built a faster car he left mid season to drive the Mercedes to clinch another title, he would even take over his team mates car if it was quicker or more reliable.
In his last championship winning season his team mate a very good driver by the name of Peter Collins was about to win the title, Fangio had the influence to stop Collins finishing the race so he could jump in the car, they shared the points and Fangio was crowned champion.
This was in the 50's so the relation between car and driver in this sport has always been about which team builds the best car.

I agree and have always said that. F1 is more about the car and the team than the driver, the driver is just the final (important) piece of a massive puzzle. But all this GOAT nonsense really kicked off big time in the social media circus around Hamilton. My personal GOAT is Surtees as the ONLY person to win 2 and 4 wheeled Top level championships, a Unique achievement that will NEVER ever be equalled. I prefer the term GOTE....Greatest of their era and agree that Hamilton/Merc are the greatest of the Hybrid era.

Amereto1 · Dec 8, 2021

Damage Inc said:
I agree and have always said that. F1 is more about the car and the team than the driver, the driver is just the final (important) piece of a massive puzzle. But all this GOAT nonsense really kicked off big time in the social media circus around Hamilton. My personal GOAT is Surtees as the ONLY person to win 2 and 4 wheeled Top level championships, a Unique achievement that will NEVER ever be equalled. I prefer the term GOTE....Greatest of their era and agree that Hamilton/Merc are the greatest of the Hybrid era.

GOTE is probably a better way of defining it, and I've also previously quoted John Surtees is my absolute legend of motorsport.

Richard Wilks · Dec 8, 2021

sonicviz said:
Oh no! https://racingnews365.com/marko-apologises-for-comments-on-hamilton-verstappen-clash

>>Last Race "strategies"

Herbert: Only Verstappen would cause title-deciding crash | RacingNews365

Ex-F1 driver Johnny Herbert has weighed in on the 2021 title fight between Max Verstappen and Lewis Hamilton, which will go down to the wire at the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix.

racingnews365.com

I'm curious to see if MV is stupid enough to try to win by taking out LH and potentially killing/maiming himself, LH, and/or others to secure a win by countback. It's an intelligence test, because by doing that he'll have sealed his fate in F1 history as an even bigger flawed champion than Michael Schumacher https://bleacherreport.com/articles...er-from-flawed-champion-to-sympathetic-figure, whether he goes on to win more or not. He'll be like a really bad fart hanging around the F1 room for the rest of his career.

Whoever wins, I hope it's done clean with sportsmanship. Wishful thinking at this point, but you can hope!

PS: No, it's nothing like the Silverstone Racing Incident so don't even go there.

You do realize that Schumacher 94 is hardly the concensus you, or the british press for that matter, thinks it is right?

Even if we can all assume he did it on purppose, it was never proven, and the man himself denied all the way to the end (as opposed to Jerez 97). Much in the same way Lewis has been denying Silverstone, an incident that the Hamilton camp now tries to sweep under the rug as much as possible, because if any collision decided a championship, it was that one, with the MASSIVE CONSEQUENCES it had, which according to the FIA, should be ignored when judging the incident.

So for that token, who can blame Max for having a bump with Lewis that causes a DNF, and demanding the incident be judged without taking the consequences into account too?

THIS is the stupid corner the FIA painted themselves at this point.

McGherkin · Dec 8, 2021

Nobody in the ‘Hamilton camp’ tries to sweep Silverstone under the carpet. If you can’t accept your driver’s mistakes then you’re a Max fan.

Lewis ****ed up, once, at Silverstone. Max fans need to get over it, and get on with their lives, like Lewis fans did half a season ago.

Richard Wilks · Dec 8, 2021

McGherkin said:
Nobody in the ‘Hamilton camp’ tries to sweep Silverstone under the carpet. If you can’t accept your driver’s mistakes then you’re a Max fan.

Lewis ****ed up, once, at Silverstone. Max fans need to get over it, and get on with their lives, like Lewis fans did half a season ago.

You don't get it, do you.

I am not a Max fan. I said here earlier that he is a dirty driver that should have been heavily punished a long time ago.

I can't make it any clearer than this.

But the FIA SHOULD NOT ignore the CONSEQUENCES of the actions of the drivers, because if it does, then for the sake of consistency, Max can put Lewis off the track next race, and then get a punny 10 second penalty, and win the WDC, don't you think?...

That's not how to manage this. That's not how the FIA should have dealt with this. But now its TOO LATE, at least for this year!

2021 Formula One Saudi Arabian Grand Prix

Who will win the Saudi Arabian Grand Prix?

Max Verstappen

Lewis Hamilton

Other Driver

More in F1 & Motorsport

2024 Formula One Chinese Grand Prix

Broadbent, Brown, Charoudin And Metzger Take First NLS Class Win

2024 Formula One Japanese Grand Prix

Comments

paracletus

LeSunTzu

Kingkoenig

paracletus

Kingkoenig

davehenrie

sonicviz

muzikant

sonicviz

Herbert: Only Verstappen would cause title-deciding crash | RacingNews365

Damage Inc

Damage Inc

Damage Inc

Herbert: Only Verstappen would cause title-deciding crash | RacingNews365

sonicviz

muzikant

Herbert: Only Verstappen would cause title-deciding crash | RacingNews365

Amereto1

Damage Inc

Amereto1

Richard Wilks

Herbert: Only Verstappen would cause title-deciding crash | RacingNews365

McGherkin

Richard Wilks

Latest News

Article information

Share this article

Are you buying car setups?

Yes

No