2021 Formula One Saudi Arabian Grand Prix

Milos · Dec 7, 2021

williang83 said:
but with mentors like Horner, Markur and his Father he is just becoming more and more toxic in race.

You forgot to name his most important mentor: Lewis Hamilton.
Man learnt from the example that Lewis (Silverstone) and then Bottas (Hungary) can take out a driver and get away with it with only minor penalties. If Charlie was alive, he would rightfully give Lewis at least a drive-through, and Bottas a race ban, and we wouldn't be having this discussion. And Max would (rightfully) be winning this championship.
You Lewis fans think that the FIA messed up in Brazil, but by then, the damage was already done.. and Max, despite doing his best to adapt to dirty Merc tricks, still hasn't come close to matching Silverstone and Hungary.

muzikant · Dec 7, 2021

Mr. Malarkey said:
Starting off a post with "no you are wrong" isn't going to sway anyone. The FIA is inconsistent, not biased.

I'm not going to say which driver I am rooting for, because fanboys will accuse ME of bias. I just want both drivers and teams to start showing good sportsmanship. Insulting the marshals and race director, throwing headphones across the garage, accusing each other of cheating, whining to the race director over every little incident, etc etc. It's all bad sportsmanship and it all makes F1 unpleasant to follow, unless you're a fan of crappy reality tv. I suppose it will make for some entertaining episodes of Drive To Survive, if juvenile backbiting is what you find entertaining. It may bring in fans from Netflix who like that kind of childish drama, but it is a turn-off to me as a racing fan.

I agree but the penalties are nonsense and not consistent which makes it harder and unsportsmanlike

muzikant · Dec 7, 2021

Enagee said:
Do you really think the FIA wants Mercedes to win? What's the benefit to the FIA?

I can tell you it will benefit the FIA more if Max wins........and that's just pure common sense, as Merc domination is not enjoyed by the fans or the people (FIA)who make money from it.

Why do you think Massi was bargaining with Redbull at the restart? why did Redbull accept the grid change? Going to the stewards would be a harsher penalty which would have put Max in a far worse position and Massi knows!

If Bottas was 10 secs behind Max, Max would not get a 10-sec penalty...it would be 5 sec.

This scenario is perfect for the FIA.

When the FIA see orange smoke in the crowd it means new fans and more $$$$££££€€€€

I'll be interested to hear your reasons why would the FIA would give "presents to Mercedes" and Lewis....

I actually already mentioned that. But want to say it again. To name the most current... in Qatar Max received a grid penalty for ignoring the yellow flag. The same happened to Lewis on Saturday, he did not ignore the yellow flag at all... Bottas driving too slow in the race at Lewis's stop, the rules state that you must not slow down.. no investigation is done into the FIA... Lewis pushed Ocon off the track... no interrogation... no penalty. Max is just often punished. we've had Bahrain on cutting off 27 laps advantage. Silverstone.. a 10 second penalty for pushing Max out of the race.. Turkey where Lewis pushes Perez. No punishment whatsoever. let it be clear that I don't like penalties, I just want to race but if you give a penalty then be consistent

Mr. Malarkey · Dec 7, 2021

muzikant said:
I agree but the penalties are nonsense and not consistent which makes it harder and unsportsmanlike

I mostly agree, though I wouldn't say that the inconsistencies are fully responsible for the unsportsmanlike conduct by the drivers and principals. Champions and good sportsmen don't throw fits and act like children when things go against them.

sonicviz · Dec 7, 2021

muzikant said:
I agree but the penalties are nonsense and not consistent which makes it harder and unsportsmanlike

It's just terrible the way that Lewis Hamilton makes Max Verstoppen do all those things.

Patrik Marek · Dec 7, 2021

cpubound said:
Having said all of that, all i care about is next season seeing a driver who has been in one opf the worst cars, then drive a full season in the best over the last several seasons.

This I'm very eager to see how it's going to turn out, of course he doesn't have the experience, but he is surely fast
And unlike Hamilton ( my personal opinion of course) , George Russell is a humble talented driver

Patrik Marek · Dec 7, 2021

Mr. Malarkey said:
No kidding. Calling anyone GOAT is silly. Racing today is nothing like racing even 20 years ago, let alone 70 years ago. It's comparing apples and oranges.

The desperate need to rank everyone and everything is foolish.

True, but the speeds / G forces / stress ( with media ) / mental heatlh , in todays F1 is nothing like what it used to be, so if you put some of the old time greats into a modern F1, they might struggle quite a bit, and do even worse with all the media circus

but yeah, it's not really worth trying to compare, it's a different era, different sport even, and ultimatelly you can't prove it and it won't matter either

it's just so sad that it's way more about policits and money, then it is about the sport

Even Ayrton Senna - who for me was the GOAT - said that the best racing ever was when he was doing Karts, .. real racing, no BS , no money

and it's going to be the same when E-Sports get big, it will have the same silly politics , etc.

living now in north america, I was talking to a fried who follows americal footbal, and he said that he much more enjoys the University leagues, becasue you see smart players there, being creative, having fun, compared to the moeny machine of the profesional leagues

money destroy sports , but withotu money, there won't be much sport, so it's a no WIN situation

davehenrie · Dec 7, 2021

We tend to refer to University football as COLLEGE Football. Until recently it was a supposedly amateur only, but now any player can try and sell/rent his name & likeness out to the highest bidder. This means SOME players will get the lion's share of the $$ and the rest will settle for scraps. And your friend is not alone, there are millions of fans who only watch the College boys and millions more that only watch the pros in the NFL. I worked with a bunch of retired Military types and very few of them watched college ball, NFL only for them, presumably because they were enlisted during what would have been their college age years. With Fantasy Sports gambling, the 'fun & excitement' of college games will probably fade as players strive to hit the big numbers for the gamblers.
When I think back to Senna/Prost, which was my first real F1 rivalry, I don't recall the officials interfering as much as they do these days. I wonder, I REALLY wonder, if Max tries to win the championship the Senna way and cause a T1 wreck, will the Stewards actually award the championship to him?

Damage Inc · Dec 7, 2021

What I find interesting is when RB had the slight advantage (because it was never as big an advantage as Merc had most of the previous 7 years) Lewis was making mistakes, but now Merc have caught and passed RB (well Lewis' car at least!) Max is making mistakes. That's normal IMO, when you overdrive a car to try and beat someone in a superior car you tend to make mistakes. Max has the added issue of the petulance of youth (just like Lewis in his early years), Lewis is a mature 7 times champ he SHOULD be the better overall driver purely on the basis of experience. Either way both are a bad as each other, both are DESPERATE to win the WDC and if it all ends with a clean race I'll eat my hat.

LeSunTzu · Dec 7, 2021

davehenrie said:
We tend to refer to University football as COLLEGE Football. Until recently it was a supposedly amateur only, but now any player can try and sell/rent his name & likeness out to the highest bidder. This means SOME players will get the lion's share of the $$ and the rest will settle for scraps. And your friend is not alone, there are millions of fans who only watch the College boys and millions more that only watch the pros in the NFL. I worked with a bunch of retired Military types and very few of them watched college ball, NFL only for them, presumably because they were enlisted during what would have been their college age years. With Fantasy Sports gambling, the 'fun & excitement' of college games will probably fade as players strive to hit the big numbers for the gamblers.
When I think back to Senna/Prost, which was my first real F1 rivalry, I don't recall the officials interfering as much as they do these days. I wonder, I REALLY wonder, if Max tries to win the championship the Senna way and cause a T1 wreck, will the Stewards actually award the championship to him?

Officials did not interfere much because Senna vs Prost was a lot cleaner than that. People remind the Suzuka crashes because they decided the title, but also because there was nothing else dirty on track.

sonicviz · Dec 7, 2021

Milos said:
You forgot to name his most important mentor: Lewis Hamilton.
Man learnt from the example that Lewis (Silverstone) and then Bottas (Hungary) can take out a driver and get away with it with only minor penalties. If Charlie was alive, he would rightfully give Lewis at least a drive-through, and Bottas a race ban, and we wouldn't be having this discussion. And Max would (rightfully) be winning this championship.
You Lewis fans think that the FIA messed up in Brazil, but by then, the damage was already done.. and Max, despite doing his best to adapt to dirty Merc tricks, still hasn't come close to matching Silverstone and Hungary.

So what you're saying is Lewis "Sith Lord" Hamilton and his evil empire of Mercedes held a gun to Max's head and forced him into "being dirty", so they bear all the responsibility for anything unsportsmanlike Max Verstoppen has done or will do?
A 24 year old who's a top driver in a top team in F1 bears no responsibility for anything because he's unable to think and act for himself, and anyway, the other guy dunnit too so there?

"Deflects blame faster than a speeding bullet! More powerful than a Mercedes engine! Able to leap race bans at a single bound!"

"Look! Down on the track!"
"It's a rocket!"
"It's a plane!"
"It's Saint Max of Verstoppen!"

Milos · Dec 7, 2021

sonicviz said:
so they bear all the responsibility for anything unsportsmanlike Max Verstoppen has done or will do?

Well not they, it's the FIA actually. Blame the rules.

sonicviz said:
because he's unable to think and act for himself

Quite the contrary, because Masi lacks the balls to give a proper penalty, he is very much able to think by adapting to it rather than allow to be bullied.
I'll repeat myself again: if Charlie was alive, Max/RB would have won both titles by now and we wouldn't be having this discussion.

sonicviz said:
"It's Saint Max of Verstoppen!"

I don't think Max is a saint, but Lewis is no saint himself..and it has to be said, this season he started the dirty games first.

Dethrone1427 · Dec 7, 2021

I can't believe this thread is still going this strong, BUT, those mentioning why did Lewis not get a penalty for laying way back on Max during that first restart, start, start, restart or whatever it was, it was because it was a standing start restart, and not an original formation lap like the start of the race. Michael Massi/Masi (however it's spelt), did clarify that to RB when they quizzed him over the matter. Also, Max fans might want to take a listen to The Race and their Saudi GP review, they produce great content and I feel are quite fair and concise over the matter, and they are a bunch of guys in the know.

Ps, I do not work for The Race, just an avid listener to their content

muzikant · Dec 7, 2021

sonicviz said:
So what you're saying is Lewis "Sith Lord" Hamilton and his evil empire of Mercedes held a gun to Max's head and forced him into "being dirty", so they bear all the responsibility for anything unsportsmanlike Max Verstoppen has done or will do?
A 24 year old who's a top driver in a top team in F1 bears no responsibility for anything because he's unable to think and act for himself, and anyway, the other guy dunnit too so there?

"Deflects blame faster than a speeding bullet! More powerful than a Mercedes engine! Able to leap race bans at a single bound!"

"Look! Down on the track!"
"It's a rocket!"
"It's a plane!"
"It's Saint Max of Verstoppen!"

Amen

muzikant · Dec 7, 2021

Dethrone1427 said:
I can't believe this thread is still going this strong, BUT, those mentioning why did Lewis not get a penalty for laying way back on Max during that first restart, start, start, restart or whatever it was, it was because it was a standing start restart, and not an original formation lap like the start of the race. Michael Massi/Masi (however it's spelt), did clarify that to RB when they quizzed him over the matter. Also, Max fans might want to take a listen to The Race and their Saudi GP review, they produce great content and I feel are quite fair and concise over the matter, and they are a bunch of guys in the know.

Ps, I do not work for The Race, just an avid listener to their content

The FIA are the biggest clowns of this championship

Milos · Dec 7, 2021

Dethrone1427 said:
it was because it was a standing start restart, and not an original formation lap like the start of the race. Michael Massi/Masi (however it's spelt), did

I'm curious why this is the first time this rule has been abused. We had so many red flags over the years and now that Lewis needs to win, now is the first time someone exploits it.
But ok, I can't complain about Lewis if he's following the rules, but I am complaining about the rule because it makes 0 sense. Why is a red flag standing start treated differently than a regular start? It makes F1 look more like an online open lobby and less a professional sporting event. Would that mean that in theory, Mazepin could slow down to a stop and hold the race hostage?

Fat-Alfie · Dec 7, 2021

Why should a restart mean you are allowed to change your tyres for free? Just as incomprehensible...

muzikant · Dec 7, 2021

Fat-Alfie said:
Why should a restart mean you are allowed to change your tyres for free? Just as incomprehensible...

Like LH car repair the on silverstone.. the rules are ****!

Damage Inc · Dec 7, 2021

Fat-Alfie said:
Why should a restart mean you are allowed to change your tyres for free? Just as incomprehensible...

As I said same with Lewis reparing his front wing at Silverstone. It should be after a Red Flag cars come back to Parc ferme conditions, teams can choose to restart on the track or from/in the pits, once race starts they can start to repair the vehicle/change tyres. Even then there's no slow in lap so an advantage is still gained. Anything else is unfair IMO. But Hamilton benefited from it first (this year).

sonicviz · Dec 7, 2021

muzikant said:
Amen

That's got to be peak fanbois right there.
Beats even the most mancrushed LH fan in the rose colored glasses dept.

I find the whole uber fanbois of the modern F1 era more than a bit weird.
They certainly had personalities in "the old days" (pick your era) but it seemed far more balanced, and people genuinely appreciated different drivers for their talent and sportsmanship. Did all this go down the toilet with MS's "aggressive tactics" or was it before that? Marketing certainly played a hand too, unfortunately, with the need to try and make it into some gladiatorial sticky eyeball contest for easy TV consumption.

2021 Formula One Saudi Arabian Grand Prix

Who will win the Saudi Arabian Grand Prix?

Max Verstappen

Lewis Hamilton

Other Driver

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