2021 Formula One Saudi Arabian Grand Prix

Damage Inc · Dec 7, 2021

sonicviz said:
That's got to be peak fanbois right there.
Beats even the most mancrushed LH fan in the rose colored glasses dept.

I find the whole uber fanbois of the modern F1 era more than a bit weird.
They certainly had personalities in "the old days" (pick your era) but it seemed far more balanced, and people genuinely appreciated different drivers for their talent and sportsmanship. Did all this go down the toilet with MS's "aggressive tactics" or was it before that? Marketing certainly played a hand too, unfortunately, with the need to try and make it into some gladiatorial sticky eyeball contest for easy TV consumption.

Thing is the rabid fanboyism kicked into overdrive with Lewis IMO. Mainly because he's brought a load of new (unknowledgable) fans into the sport, who don't understand that it's primarily an engineering sport about the cars. Any top driver who gets a top car for almost a decade will break records.

edit by "unknowledgable" I'm referring to social media not here, and yes Max has "some" fans who are equally as clueless on social media, Lewis has more though.

Sasha Jednak · Dec 7, 2021

About red flag, what about adding time? Here is what i think, assign specific time for each change: tyre change 5sec, wing change 15sec, add pitlane time to those, only repairs possible in race are allowed. Then for restart you use last valid lap with those time penalties applied and to me it looks all good.

Previous approach with pitlane closed was lucky for those that just pitted, current one is lucky for those who were just about to pit.

davehenrie · Dec 7, 2021

LeSunTzu said:
Officials did not interfere much because Senna vs Prost was a lot cleaner than that. People remind the Suzuka crashes because they decided the title, but also because there was nothing else dirty on track.

Also the only reactions that reached me was via the TV during the race. Back then we didn't have access to all this 'other' information, so that may have colored my memories as well.

Kingkoenig · Dec 7, 2021

Patrik Marek said:
True, but the speeds / G forces / stress ( with media ) / mental heatlh , in todays F1 is nothing like what it used to be, so if you put some of the old time greats into a modern F1, they might struggle quite a bit, and do even worse with all the media circus

If you put Fangio, Clark, Rindt and countless others from the 50's and 60's in a 2021 F1, they would do just as well. They would probably be amazed at how incredibly safer the cars and tracks have become.

How about starting the season knowing that at least one of the drivers (if not two or three) on the grid will be dead by the end? That was the reality of a F1 driver for a long time. That's real stress. Media stress? Give me a break! So a driver will look bad on Twitter... Poor kid!

The Monaco GP used to be 100 laps and could last as long as 2h 50 min. That almost 3 hours driving a car with a H-shifter. Racers would end the race with the right hand all covered in blisters, if not covered in blood.

You'd give the same personal trainers, the same dieticians, the same private jets and the same squad of engineers that today's drivers have to past champions and they'd thrive. Talent is talent, just because someone was born in 1995 instead of 1935 doesn't make him better.

LeSunTzu · Dec 7, 2021

That is speculative either way. Both Patrik and you make valid points and nobody will ever know until time travelling machines are invented.

Mr. Malarkey · Dec 7, 2021

Kingkoenig said:
If you put Fangio, Clark, Rindt and countless others from the 50's and 60's in a 2021 F1, they would do just as well. They would probably be amazed at how incredibly safer the cars and tracks have become.

How about starting the season knowing that at least one of the drivers (if not two or three) on the grid will be dead by the end? That was the reality of a F1 driver for a long time. That's real stress. Media stress? Give me a break! So a driver will look bad on Twitter... Poor kid!

The Monaco GP used to be 100 laps and could last as long as 2h 50 min. That almost 3 hours driving a car with a H-shifter. Racers would end the race with the right hand all covered in blisters, if not covered in blood.

You'd give the same personal trainers, the same dieticians, the same private jets and the same squad of engineers that today's drivers have to past champions and they'd thrive. Talent is talent, just because someone was born in 1995 instead of 1935 doesn't make him better.

All those old drivers (there were women, too!) also drove other types of race cars, too. Sports cars, F2 cars, endurance races, even sedan racing. Not only during the F1 season, but sometimes on the same days. I recently saw an old film clip on YouTube in which Graham Hill was driving an F1 race and a saloon car race on the same day. Dan Gurney won LeMans and then a week later won the F1 race at Spa. Somehow I can't picture Lewis Hamilton doing that sort of thing. These people whine if they have to race 3 weeks in a row.

cerebralvortex · Dec 7, 2021

You can do the reverse test.. Put the current generation in the old cars on historical tracks (if some still exist in the same layout) and see if they are able to do as well with the old machinery as the old time greats. Under the same safety conditions as it used to be of course.

Better not invite Max for that one, it's dangerous enough as it is.

Mr. Malarkey · Dec 7, 2021

cerebralvortex said:
You can do the reverse test.. Put the current generation in the old cars on historical tracks (if some still exist in the same layout) and see if they are able to do as well with the old machinery as the old time greats. Under the same safety conditions as it used to be of course.

Better not invite Max for that one, it's dangerous enough as it is.

Max and Lewis in 250Fs on the Nurburgring to decide the title!

Kingkoenig · Dec 7, 2021

cerebralvortex said:
Better not invite Max for that one, it's dangerous enough as it is.

Kingkoenig · Dec 7, 2021

Mr. Malarkey said:
Max and Lewis in 250Fs on the Nurburgring to decide the title!

That would be great!!

Kingkoenig · Dec 7, 2021

Mr. Malarkey said:
All those old drivers (there were women, too!) also drove other types of race cars, too. Sports cars, F2 cars, endurance races, even sedan racing. Not only during the F1 season, but sometimes on the same days. I recently saw an old film clip on YouTube in which Graham Hill was driving an F1 race and a saloon car race on the same day. Dan Gurney won LeMans and then a week later won the F1 race at Spa. Somehow I can't picture Lewis Hamilton doing that sort of thing. These people whine if they have to race 3 weeks in a row.

Alonso is the only driver of his generation who seems to understand what it meant for these drivers to race in all kinds of cars. He tried to win the Triple Crown, but I doubt he will ever win the Indy 500. He could have done it in the day of the IRL, when the field was not as strong. But now, the level of competition has increased a lot.

One thing is sure: we'll never see another Mario Andretti, someone who won the F1 title, Le Mans, Indianapolis, Daytona and I'm probably forgetting a few other major wins. As far as I'm concerned, he's the driver with the most complete driving record.

Amereto1 · Dec 7, 2021

Damage Inc said:
Thing is the rabid fanboyism kicked into overdrive with Lewis IMO. Mainly because he's brought a load of new (unknowledgable) fans into the sport, who don't understand that it's primarily an engineering sport about the cars. Any top driver who gets a top car for almost a decade will break records.

edit by "unknowledgable" I'm referring to social media not here, and yes Max has "some" fans who are equally as clueless on social media, Lewis has more though.

But Lewis was in F1 many years before social media was a thing, and the majority of the people who watched F1 back then were fans of the sport. I'd say Lando and Max have much greater interest on social media out of all the drivers (Max practically has 2 nations behind him and Lando has a generation of young supporters), and if what you say is true about them being "Unknowledgeable" is that why Max got voted driver of the day for that standard of driving.

Damage Inc · Dec 7, 2021

Amereto1 said:
But Lewis was in F1 many years before social media was a thing, and the majority of the people who watched F1 back then were fans of the sport. I'd say Lando and Max have much greater interest on social media out of all the drivers (Max practically has 2 nations behind him and Lando has a generation of young supporters), and if what you say is true about them being "Unknowledgeable" is that why Max got voted driver of the day for that standard of driving.

Social media started before 2007. It's just grown into a hideous monstrosity!!

Amereto1 · Dec 7, 2021

Damage Inc said:
Social media started before 2007. It's just grown into a hideous monstrosity!!

That's why I phrased it "Was a thing" meaning before when Facebook was something to share happy thoughts and moments with family and friends and not the political social dividing tools these things have become. Just have to read these comments to see that!

Hamilton's fan base didn't start on social media, you had to turn on the telly and watch the kid to see him perform, there wasn't even a dedicated F1 channel back then, You got a few hours every race weekend and that's it, unlike today when there are endless, clips, blogs, youtubers, threads, post's, media companies, social media companies, etc all influencing people on how to think, act, what to say, what not to say, who to support and who to hate.

muzikant · Dec 7, 2021

cerebralvortex said:
You can do the reverse test.. Put the current generation in the old cars on historical tracks (if some still exist in the same layout) and see if they are able to do as well with the old machinery as the old time greats. Under the same safety conditions as it used to be of course.

Better not invite Max for that one, it's dangerous enough as it is.

well by the British media Verstappen is portrayed as a bad boy .. the pathetic really pathetic. We have seen how nasty Lewis raced this year your message is rubbish

JohannesK · Dec 7, 2021

JohannesK said:
You all know the vote is for who you actually think is going to win, not who you want to win. As much as I think Max deserves this WDCI cant see him winning in Jeddah unless Lewis overclocked engine explodes or Max lucks out with a red flag

Well apparently not even lucking out with a red flag was enough

JohannesK · Dec 7, 2021

muzikant said:
well by the British media Verstappen is portrayed as a bad boy .. the pathetic really pathetic. We have seen how nasty Lewis raced this year your message is rubbish

Lewis is most definitely the king of gamesmanship and often not the sportsman he is portrayed as, but you really cant compare his wheel to wheel racing with Verstappen. While I personally love to see what Max does as long as the FIA strikes in when its necessary, he is a *lot* harsher than Lewis, and yeah the FIA also sucks massive ass, so that doesnt help either

muzikant · Dec 7, 2021

Mr. Malarkey said:
Max and Lewis in 250Fs on the Nurburgring to decide the title!

maybe Max can get into the Merc on Sunday instead of the 250f then it doesn't seem so difficult to win for Max on Sunday

muzikant · Dec 7, 2021

JohannesK said:
Lewis is most definitely the king of gamesmanship and often not the sportsman he is portrayed as, but you really cant compare his wheel to wheel racing with Verstappen. While I personally love to see what Max does as long as the FIA strikes in when its necessary, he is a *lot* harsher than Lewis, and yeah the FIA also sucks massive ass, so that doesnt help either

simple answer he doesn't need it with such a good car 80..90% enough Max always has to give 110% to win and keep up with the Mercedes

Patrik Marek · Dec 7, 2021

Kingkoenig said:
If you put Fangio, Clark, Rindt and countless others from the 50's and 60's in a 2021 F1, they would do just as well. They would probably be amazed at how incredibly safer the cars and tracks have become.

How about starting the season knowing that at least one of the drivers (if not two or three) on the grid will be dead by the end? That was the reality of a F1 driver for a long time. That's real stress. Media stress? Give me a break! So a driver will look bad on Twitter... Poor kid!

The Monaco GP used to be 100 laps and could last as long as 2h 50 min. That almost 3 hours driving a car with a H-shifter. Racers would end the race with the right hand all covered in blisters, if not covered in blood.

You'd give the same personal trainers, the same dieticians, the same private jets and the same squad of engineers that today's drivers have to past champions and they'd thrive. Talent is talent, just because someone was born in 1995 instead of 1935 doesn't make him better.

I hear what you are saying, but do not underestimate the pressure of media / crazy fans, paparazzi
there were lot of celebrities who destroyed their lives because they couldn't handle the pressure ( drugs, alcohol etc.)

yes, racing condition in those days were something very different, and while arguable the act of driving the car got easier, the speed and g-forces are somewhere else

it kinda reminds me of Fighter Pilots,
I'm sure lot of people will say how the WW2 or even WW1 fighter pilots where the "proper" pilots, and that nowadays pilots couldn't do what they did , planes full of computers, practically flying themselves

but put that old WW2 veteran into a modern fighterplane, and he will black out and crash

yes, talent is talent, but you have to train and get up to speed with the modern equipment, whereas in the old days, you could drive F1 car as a person with not much experience
- now I'm not sayign you could drive it fast / on the limit, but you could get it and drive it , for modern F1 car, you will probbly stuggle to get it going and once you get it going, you will struggle to make the corners becasue you will be too slow for downforce to work

2021 Formula One Saudi Arabian Grand Prix

Who will win the Saudi Arabian Grand Prix?

Max Verstappen

Lewis Hamilton

Other Driver

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