2021 Formula One Abu Dhabi Grand Prix

Jean-Pierre Sarti · Dec 17, 2021

RedBarchetta said:
Hamilton stepping away because he realizes F1 is a complete joke

No, Mikey, no, a better scenario is Hamilton putting his fashion brand TommyXLewis on Haas' cars to replace Uralkali and taking Mazepin's slot just to show the world what he can do. Then we get Steiner, young Shucmacher, and Hamilton together on "Drive to Survive" (along with great shots of Mazepin getting axed).

Oh well, I can dream.

Jean-Pierre Sarti · Dec 17, 2021

I think it's really great to be able to get so involved in a controversy that doesn't really matter to us. I mean it, with all the crap going on in the world it's positively refreshing.

Looking forward t next season, because, like I told my grandkids when they were watching a few minutes of a race this year and one said, "do we want the black car to win?", I replied, "NO, WE ALWAYS WANT THE RED CARS TO WIN!".

daveclifton · Dec 17, 2021

The best that Mercedes could hope for was the Abu Dhabi race declared void, in which case Verstappen would still be champion. I believe if they had left the backmarkers, Verstappen probably would have won anyway, as they would have got out of his way very quickly.
Ironically, it would have been fair and a much more exciting finish, as Verstappen would have caught Hamilton in the last three turns,
Such a disappointing end to the season. So many non-F1 viewers think Verstappen pulled off a miracle, when we all know that Hamilton was a sitting duck.

Jean-Pierre Sarti · Dec 17, 2021

daveclifton said:
...when we all know that Hamilton was a sitting duck.

Or aging duck. Nobody talks about it, but it does seems like he's aging out a bit. Unlike Alonso, I don't think Hamilton's age decline (though maybe it's aftereffects of his bout with Covid) has been replaced by other, less physical skills. It could be that somebody who has won so many relatively easy championships isn't ready at this point in his life to beat off a serious challenge.

I'm not dumping on him, we all know he's one of the two best drivers currently competing, but everyone changes with age and life experience.

Note Fangio, the real greatest of all time competed from age 39 to age 47; I'm sure Fangio could drive Hamilton's car to podiums, not so sure Hamilton or any modern driver could succeed in Fangios's cars (or Clark's, or Graham Hill's...).

Scottt · Dec 17, 2021

paracletus said:
Russel and Norris at Merc next year wouldn't surprise me at all, but we'll see.

Verstappen says he's been unlucky this year, but not really any less lucky than other drivers:

Silverstone - most of the current drivers chimed in and called it racing incident (leclerk, alonso to name a few)

Fortunate to get handed 12 points for not racing at all at spa

Lucky to get away with the brake-checking at Arabia. Could have been disqualified for it

Luck beyond all else on the last race

Overall, it's time to suck it up and move on.
It was either going to be him or hamilton, not much between the two over the whole year.

Even if you think Silverstone was a driving incident, how is that a lucky incident for Max? He's the one that is out of the race and his main competitor gets just a 10 second inconsequential penalty. And even in the last race, Lewis was also "lucky" to get run off the track and keep his lasting advantage.

Even in the most pro-Lewis interpretation that you enumerate, Lewis had far more of a "luck" advantage through the year. But that's motor racing, luck can and does play a tremendous role.

Scottt · Dec 17, 2021

Stuart Thomson said:
Yeah, he's been a bit of a competence vacuum a few times now...but on this, I kind of agree with Martin Brundle - you sack him, who replaces him? Bin him now, and we'll never know if he's actually learned from 2021.

If he continues getting himself in the middle of things and being the focus for where things went wrong next season, then maybe it needs to be looked at again, but there's no way anyone is going to get up to even where Masi is now in this very short close season.

Even if you think what he did was perfectly fine, I think Masi at this point has to be replaced. There's just too much controversy around him for the public and teams to have faith in him. He's damaged goods.

F1 must be ruing the decision to allow communication with the RD to be broadcast and I think it's going to be difficult to go back now.

Damage Inc · Dec 17, 2021

Badwheels said:
The person I am referring to is the one who responded to me with a racial innuendo. I have no idea what you are thinking. You need to read more carefully..

That person only exists in your head.

Scottt · Dec 17, 2021

Jean-Pierre Sarti said:
Or aging duck. Nobody talks about it, but it does seems like he's aging out a bit. Unlike Alonso, I don't think Hamilton's age decline (though maybe it's aftereffects of his bout with Covid) has been replaced by other, less physical skills. It could be that somebody who has won so many relatively easy championships isn't ready at this point in his life to beat off a serious challenge.

I'm not dumping on him, we all know he's one of the two best drivers currently competing, but everyone changes with age and life experience.

Note Fangio, the real greatest of all time competed from age 39 to age 47; I'm sure Fangio could drive Hamilton's car to podiums, not so sure Hamilton or any modern driver could succeed in Fangios's cars (or Clark's, or Graham Hill's...).

The fact Fangio was able to start competing at 39 tells you the level of competition he was facing. People like to romance competitors from long ago, but I don't think they realize how much the level of competition has risen. And if nothing else, I doubt Fangio could handle the physical requirements of a modern F1 car, let alone the reflexes required today. The level of training (driving and physical) that modern drivers go through dwarfs that of 60 years ago.

And I think it's going to get real interesting with Russell starts competing directly against Hamilton next year.

Gevatter · Dec 17, 2021

Scottt said:
And I think it's going to get real interesting with Russell starts competing directly against Hamilton next year.

IF they let him.

Jean-Pierre Sarti · Dec 17, 2021

Scottt said:
The fact Fangio was able to start competing at 39 tells you the level of competition he was facing. People like to romance competitors from long ago, but I don't think they realize how much the level of competition has risen. And if nothing else, I doubt Fangio could handle the physical requirements of a modern F1 car, let alone the reflexes required today. The level of training (driving and physical) that modern drivers go through dwarfs that of 60 years ago.

Acknowledging that this is a just for fun impossible to resolve discussion, I'd counter by pointing out that drivers of the past had to be more "one with the car" since they had less reliable cars and no radio engineers, horsepower was high but tires and brakes were nothing compared to today, and many great drivers of the past competed in multiple disciplines and in multiple teams.

Graham Hill had "only" two F1 championships -- only 10 driver have more than 2 -- but is so far the only driver to win Monaco, Le Mans, and the Indy 500. (The only two people alive today who could get the triple crown are Alonso and Montoya.) Current drivers are super-specialized from an early age.

(Fangio started racing at 25. He couldn't have started F1 early than age 30 since his debut year was the first year F1 existed.)

But "the greatest" wasn't so much my point, rather that a driver from the past could go faster in a modern car than a modern driver could in a car from the past. It's too bad we can't test that, but like the question of how good Babe Ruth (legendary American baseball star, for you non-North Americans) would be today it'll forever be just a pub ("bar" in America) discussion.

Scottt said:
And I think it's going to get real interesting with Russell starts competing directly against Hamilton next year.

Oh, yes!

Wouldn't it also be great if one of the F1 season races (many not for points) was a spec race?

Scottt · Dec 17, 2021

Jean-Pierre Sarti said:
Acknowledging that this is a just for fun impossible to resolve discussion, I'd counter by pointing out that drivers of the past had to be more "one with the car" since they had less reliable cars and no radio engineers, horsepower was high but tires and brakes were nothing compared to today, and many great drivers of the past competed in multiple disciplines and in multiple teams.

Graham Hill had "only" two F1 championships -- only 10 driver have more than 2 -- but is so far the only driver to win Monaco, Le Mans, and the Indy 500. (The only two people alive today who could get the triple crown are Alonso and Montoya.) Current drivers are super-specialized from an early age.

(Fangio started racing at 25. He couldn't have started F1 early than age 30 since his debut year was the first year F1 existed.)

But "the greatest" wasn't so much my point, rather that a driver from the past could go faster in a modern car than a modern driver could in a car from the past. It's too bad we can't test that, but like the question of how good Babe Ruth (legendary American baseball star, for you non-North Americans) would be today it'll forever be just a pub ("bar" in America) discussion.

I agree, it's not possible to resolve the issue, but I think a modern F1 driver would be far more competitive if you suddenly transported them to 1951, than a driver from 1951 if you transported them to today. This is assuming a modern driver is willing to risk his life the way they were in 1951.

The skill sets between the eras are very different, in 1951 I think most drivers were essentially mechanics that started out driving their own creations until they moved up to more professional teams in their 30s. Fangio was old for a driver back then, but he wasn't ridiculously old as he'd be today. Today, you have drivers that have come up their whole lives racing. They have personal trainers that use modern workout techniques, machines and nutrition. They have realistic simulators that they can learn the track. They are young and fit (a 36 year old today is a lot different than a 36 year old in 1955).

And I disagree about having to be one with the car, with the speeds and forces that today's cars operate under, you have to know exactly how that car is going to react at every second.

These guys today would take some time to get used to a 1955 F1 car, but they could do it. I don't think the opposite is true.

eco2006 · Dec 17, 2021

Interesting what Walter Röhrl said about Verstappen: "...ice-cold, characterless racer with elbows and no consideration for losses."
"But unfortunately, that's exactly how you have to be to win."

And about the last race: "I know now that I won't have to waste another minute watching a Formula 1 race on TV. I'll save myself that, I can take the piss out of myself."

Gevatter · Dec 17, 2021

Jean-Pierre Sarti said:
Graham Hill had "only" two F1 championships -- only 10 driver have more than 2 -- but is so far the only driver to win Monaco, Le Mans, and the Indy 500. (The only two people alive today who could get the triple crown are Alonso and Montoya.) Current drivers are super-specialized from an early age.

Well active, not alive, and you forgot Jaques Villeneuve who won the Indy 500 in 1995. Granted everybody besides Villeneuve, Montoya and Alonso still alive and eligible is retired and veeery old

Triple Crown of Motorsport - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Deleted member 379375 · Dec 17, 2021

daveclifton said:
The best that Mercedes could hope for was the Abu Dhabi race declared void, in which case Verstappen would still be champion. I believe if they had left the backmarkers, Verstappen probably would have won anyway, as they would have got out of his way very quickly.
Ironically, it would have been fair and a much more exciting finish, as Verstappen would have caught Hamilton in the last three turns,
Such a disappointing end to the season. So many non-F1 viewers think Verstappen pulled off a miracle, when we all know that Hamilton was a sitting duck.

Jean-Pierre Sarti · Dec 17, 2021

Gevatter said:
Well active, not alive, and you forgot Jaques Villeneuve who won the Indy 500 in 1995. Granted everybody besides Villeneuve, Montoya and Alonso still alive and eligible is retired and veeery old

Triple Crown of Motorsport - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Interesting and totally irrelevant to the topic of this thread (sorry), Montoya could end up the oldest Le Mans winner (Luigi Chinetti was 47, Montoya is now 46).

And Graham Hill gets the "Best F1 Mustache" award, narrowly beating out Nigel Mansell.

Damage Inc · Dec 17, 2021

Something dawned on me just now......people are actually using the words "fair" and "F1" in then same sentence, when F1 is about the most unfair sport on the planet!! If Athletics was like F1 the athletes would all have "performance injections" and the one with the best drugs would win.

Scottt · Dec 17, 2021

Jean-Pierre Sarti said:
Interesting and totally irrelevant to the topic of this thread (sorry), Montoya could end up the oldest Le Mans winner (Luigi Chinetti was 47, Montoya is now 46).

And Graham Hill gets the "Best F1 Mustache" award, narrowly beating out Nigel Mansell.

Of all the bad F1 takes I've read this last week, this might take the cake. To not even list Harald Ertl's mustache is ridiculous.

muzikant · Dec 18, 2021

eco2006 said:
Interesting what Walter Röhrl said about Verstappen: "...ice-cold, characterless racer with elbows and no consideration for losses."
"But unfortunately, that's exactly how you have to be to win."

And about the last race: "I know now that I won't have to waste another minute watching a Formula 1 race on TV. I'll save myself that, I can take the piss out of myself."

what a drama.. by the way I love Walter

eco2006 · Dec 18, 2021

muzikant said:
what a drama.. by the way I love Walter

I don't see a "drama" here, he's just being honest, like he's always been.

muzikant · Dec 18, 2021

eco2006 said:
I don't see a "drama" here, he's just being honest, like he's always been.

you don't understand me you stop looking F1 I don't understand

1	Max VERSTAPPEN	Red Bull	1:22.109
2	Lewis HAMILTON	Mercedes	1:22.480
3	Lando NORRIS	McLaren	1:22.931
4	Sergio PÉREZ	Red Bull	1:22.947
5	Carlos SAINZ	Ferrari	1:22.992
6	Valtteri BOTTAS	Mercedes	1:23.036
7	Charles LECLERC	Ferrari	1:23.122
8	Yuki TSUNODA	Alpha Tauri	1:23.220
9	Esteban OCON	Alpine	1:23.389
10	Daniel RICCIARDO	McLaren	1:23.409
11	Fernando ALONSO	Alpine	1:23.460
12	Pierre GASLY	Alpha Tauri	1:24.043
13	Lance STROLL	Aston Martin	1:24.066
14	Antonio GIOVINAZZI	Alfa Romeo	1:24.251
15	Sebastian VETTEL	Aston Martin	1:24.305
16	Nicholas LATIFI	Williams	1:24.338
17	George RUSSELL	Williams	1:24.423
18	Kimi RÄIKKÖNEN	Alfa Romeo	1:24.779
19	Mick SCHUMACHER	Haas	1:24.906
20	Nikita MAZEPIN	Haas	1:25.685

1	Max VERSTAPPEN	Red Bull	LAP 58
2	Lewis HAMILTON	Mercedes	2.256
3	Carlos SAINZ	Ferrari	5.173
4	Yuki TSUNODA	Alpha Tauri	5.692
5	Pierre GASLY	Alpha Tauri	6.531
6	Valtteri BOTTAS	Mercedes	7.463
7	Lando NORRIS	McLaren	59.2
8	Fernando ALONSO	Alpine	61.708
9	Esteban OCON	Alpine	64.026
10	Charles LECLERC	Ferrari	66.057
11	Sebastian VETTEL	Aston Martin	67.527
12	Daniel RICCIARDO	McLaren	+1L
13	Lance STROLL	Aston Martin	+1L
14	Mick SCHUMACHER	Haas	+1L
15	Sergio PÉREZ	Red Bull	DNF
16	Nicholas LATIFI	Williams	DNF
17	Antonio GIOVINAZZI	Alfa Romeo	DNF
18	George RUSSELL	Williams	DNF
19	Kimi RÄIKKÖNEN	Alfa Romeo	DNF

2021 Formula One Abu Dhabi Grand Prix

Who will win the 2021 World Championship?

Max Verstappen

Lewis Hamilton

Qualification Results​

Race Results​

Comments

Article information

Share this article

Special events

More leagues

Prizes

Trophies

Forum trophies

Livestreams

Easier access

Other? post your reason

Qualification Results

Race Results