Steam only Release for AC

[Michael Hornbuckle]

Stefano Casillo ‏@KunosStefano

5h​

@oooRickyBobby @Aristotelis @Markus72k at the moment the plans are to have a steam only release.

Not the news a handful wanted to hear but there it is.

 

[Shadow Explorer]

steam version will be cracked withing days, there is no point on adding drm
you just punish your supporters.

and last but not least why is it so hard to put another version


noone is fighting steam,it is what it is,some like it,others not.
but ONLY steam is a problem...

 

[DewCrew88]

So what does the DRM being cracked have to do with you? Thats a Kunos and Valve problem no? If anything these cracked versions likely wont be able to race online so they can have fun playing with themselves. (no pun intended)

I have yet to see a logical or coherent response as to why Steam is bad other than someone proving they cant handle a computer on their own or someone who is afraid of DRM for some reason. If you own it you own it, you can download and use the damn thing on steam anytime you want under your account. Again, most games allow you to play offline and DRM isnt big brother or designed to be big brother either. It's designed to protect intellectual property.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

Maybe Kunos can sell a DVD version after the digital sales rush....

As for DLC, DLC is the perfect business model for small developers and perfect for sim dev's.
Sim cars with proper physics and lazer scanned tracks take time and cost money, so it's understandable that we must both pay and wait.

 

[GamerMuscle]

steam version will be cracked withing days, there is no point on adding drm
you just punish your supporters.

and last but not least why is it so hard to put another version


noone is fighting steam,it is what it is,some like it,others not.
but ONLY steam is a problem...

Piracy is effectively mitigated by 1) multiplayer 2) steam sales 3) steam community features.

I don't think you have any idea of what steam has to offer software when its properly integrated , you do realise that steam is not simply just a vertulized distribution service ?

You realise that the point of "only" steam is that it allows the developer to focus on other aspects of the product and to fully integrate features of steam that would likely make a massive impact to the success and sustainability of AC ?

Sure a standalone DRM free version of the game would be nice but that version would essentially be irrelivent after 8 months and would also be a massive support burden on kunos who knows , maybe they will do that non the less.

 

[XN-Sigma]

lol...
I haven't really been around here for a while (not posting at least), but this thread made me want to say a few things.

First, I see some people seem to have a few misconceptions about how Steam works, for example, games bought on Steam can be backed up and played offline, you have to have Steam on while playing, but it doesn't need to BE online. Obviously, there are some games that need to stay always connected, but those are mostly online multiplayer games.
Also, I'm assuming Kunos will want to use the Workshop to handle AC's mods, and to me that would be the perfect deal, people who never used the Workshop for any Steam game probably doesn't understand how much easier it makes your life when getting mods, I'll use 2 games to exemplify what I'm saying:

ArmA 3: This game is also Steam exclusive(and interestingly enough was also bashed for being Steam exclusive), but for now still isn't on the Workshop, so to install mods on it I have to go to external sites and search for mods to download, and then install, this isn't so bad, except when you have 50+ mods installed things start to get difficult to take care off, and then tracking down the mods that were updated and replacing the right files can be very annoying.

Gmod: This is also Steam exclusive, but uses the Workshop to its full extent, in Gmod I have like... 200 mods installed, or more, and they were quite easily installed and auto update whenever a new version of the mods is uploaded, in this game you can browse the Workshop from inside the game and once you find a mod you like, you click on "subscribe" and the mod downloads and installs itself while you are ingame, doesn't even need to restart, also from inside the game you can disable or enable mods at will to check for incompatibility problems or bugs, etc, and also you can uninstall them by just clicking on "unsubscribe".

If there is a single reason to defend AC being on Steam only, it is the Workshop, it just makes dealing with mods that much better. However, I'm not saying Steam is perfect, ironically enough, I HATE IT more often than not, but I can see its advantages too.

Also, about some of the comments in this thread, I find funny how the same people that, last week, considered Kunos and AC the second coming of Jesus, are now considering them to be greedy monsters that should burn in Hell, just because they took the most RATIONAL decision. (A bit exaggerated, but you get the idea. )

And sorry for the wall of text, I just wanted to give my take on this.

 

[zombieshark6666]

Maybe Kunos can sell a DVD version after the digital sales rush....

As for DLC, DLC is the perfect business model for small developers and perfect for sim dev's.
Sim cars with proper physics and lazer scanned tracks take time and cost money, so it's understandable that we must both pay and wait.

Unfortunately, the DVD version might still require Steam. That's how things are nowadays.

 

[GamerMuscle]

If there is a single reason to defend AC being on Steam only, it is the Workshop, it just makes dealing with mods that much better. However, I'm not saying Steam is perfect, ironically enough, I HATE IT more often than not, but I can see its advantages too.

Also, about some of the comments in this thread, I find funny how the same people that, last week, considered Kunos and AC the second coming of Jesus, are now considering them to be greedy monsters that should burn in Hell, just because they took the most RATIONAL decision. (A bit exaggerated, but you get the idea. )

And sorry for the wall of text, I just wanted to give my take on this.

Exactly , it all depend son how they use workshop and other steam features and the fact steam will give product visibility by default. The example you bought up of ARMA is a good in that despite not utilising workshop it still works as you would expect a non steam game to, though its as bad if not worse than RF1/2 for adding content.

I think ARMA 3 is going to use workshop though not entirely sure of that though.

Very clear and good points made though , I agree as well that aspects of steam are very annoying but overall the bad, for multi-player or more niche games anyway is easily outdone by the good steam brings.

 

[Simon Kaminski]

And the pointless Anti-Steam-Crusade goes on...

 

[Requiem84]

the reasons are:
1. selling some extra copies to the ones who will not purchase because of steam
2. satisfying the asks from many users all over the internet asking for a non-steam version (most of them are nKP big fans like me that play nKP everyday) and keep loyalty to the old school drivers that dont give a shi about steam
3. to give people (and kunos itself) a choice to stay independet from companies like Valve and others ...

Hey Jorge,

Thanks for replying to me with arguments. That is a lot better than to start flaming eachother here, as some do! .

Let me go into your points in detail.

1. True, they will sell some extra copies if they offer a non-steam version. The question is 'how many extra'? If you examine the posters in this thread carefully, there are maybe 3 to 4 very vocal posters who really don't want to use Steam. I would think that a large part of the people who prefer not to use Steam, are specific simracers with specific needs. The group of specific simracers is very small (maybe 30.000 worldwide, vs 70.000.000 Steam users). So, yes, say they could offer a non steam version and they would sell 1.000 copies extra; that would not be a wise investment at this point.

At this point they money well could very likely be drying up for KS. They need to turn a product into profit. The main focus now should be to release a game that is as good as possible, with as little bugs as possible. When the first wave of income has arrived, yes, then they should start thinking about alternative distribution of their product. I just can't see why it would be a priority right now.

2. 'satisfying' the many requests from users all over the internet'; if you follow these forums, and virtualR, yes, it might seem that there are 'many many users who want a non-steam' version. But let's not forget one thing; this is relatively such a small group! We are just a (very vocal) grain of salt, compared to the complete audience Assetto Corsa is aimed at. I agree, it would be a nice gesture if KS would meet the requests of the community, but it is not a necessity.

3. I don't know enough about Steam to give you a good reply on this one. How much indepence do game companies lose when they distribute their game via Steam?

In summary; it would be nice of KS if they would offer a non-steam version in the future. They would meet the requests of a (small) part of the community, a part that is hard to please. But from a logical point of view, they shouldn't do it now.

 

[Jorge Alves]

Hey Jorge,

Thanks for replying to me with arguments. That is a lot better than to start flaming eachother here, as some do! .

Yes ... nice to see people here with we can discuss ideas and points of views

About the 2 first points i know we are the small part of the community and if kunos keep it this way thats their decision ... i will not stop buying AC because of steam and i understand things are much more easier for them to keep it on steam only ... but i think the minority should be able to speak and ask for they needs ... doesnt matter if developers will listen or not ... if we just dont speak they will not listen for sure ... if we speak our minds now and they decide against then we can just say that we tryed and not just complaining after

About point 3 ... for me thats a ethical question ... people should not be forced to use a software they dont want/need/like just to be able to play a game ... there should allways be a option to keep people free from software like steam/windows live/and many others ... this is how marketing works this days ... its all about business and money ... and people following advertising and fancing marketing like sheeps ... once again im not criticizing steam ... they have very good and some bad points ... most like it ... some dont ... but we should allways have the option to choose. Its up to developers to give us the choice ... steam is just doing is business so i have nothing against it ... but developers are not forced to use it exclusively i think ... and neither are users cause they can allways not buy the games. To discuss this point in a more detailed approach we will enter in political/social/ethical matters and i dont think we should go that way (not here at least) but i think you can get a ideia of what im talking about.

Game industry will bennefict a lot with companies like Valve and others ... but im a pure simulator racer/driver and not a gamer ... i dont play games ... pure sim racers/drivers just want to drive and race in simulator ... i have been doing that with great fun on LFS/RBR/iRacing/nKP/Euro Truck Simulator without the need of Steam or other similar software ... and im sure most (not all) of the pure sim racers/drivers like me feel the same way ... unfortunatly we are a minority so we can just ask and wish for our needs and hope someone listen

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

but we should allways have the option to choose. Its up to developers to give us the choice ...

If the tweet from Stefano can be classified as an official confirmation Kunos already gave everybody the choice:

1) Buy AC on Steam
2) Don't buy AC on Steam

 

[DennS]

or 3)

@Gerben321 @oooRickyBobby Aristotelis @Markus72k u'll have to wait for the warez edition then

On a more serious note, I am all for choice but as said before Kunos is a small team and need to take decisions that make sense on the business side too even if it disappoints some people...

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

People should investigate how much more traditional publishing costs compared to an online distribution platform like Steam.

Especially for a tiny team like Kunos without a publisher I think its not even financially possible to distribute CD/DVD's in a traditional way. Imagine the costs of a DVD that come with having DVD's in your local gameshop.

Secondly if you opt for a downloadable product like the old rF1 or GSC/Ftruck you always run into the same issues of having an expensive support desk (online or by phone).

Just do a query online on "OMG I LOST MY ACTIVATION KEY" and imagine all the problems that come with that.

From a business perspective Steam is one of the best possible solutions to easily sell a game to a larger audience.

 

[Mr Whippy]

I'm happy with Steam I guess.



I'm still positive but the big question on my lips is, *what* is AC going to be?

Considering they have used greenlight on steam to pocket a load of cash they'd have otherwise spent then I really really do think they will bin modding and instead provide DLC to bolster further income streams.

If money/profit is such a driving force for them they'd be mad to let us make free mods when they could make them and charge us for them.


I'm gutted that I used my greenlight vote to basically remove choice and no doubt allow even more rigid control on mods/modding in the future.


If I'm wrong then I'm happy I really am. But the signs are not good and I'm surprised KS are not telling us otherwise and re-affirming the current goals for this project... especially considering we all just green-lit a game we have no idea what it will *actually* be in the end!

And I bet Steam is really good to be able to offer a demo too... but I bet we won't see one still. So no try before you buy ability.


I'll be staying away from AC until other people are singing it's praises a few months down the line

Dave

 

[Jorge Alves]

If the tweet from Stefano can be classified as an official confirmation Kunos already gave everybody the choice:

1) Buy AC on Steam
2) Don't buy AC on Steam

whats the point on that? that we should not ask for a 3rd option?

 

[CCX]

I'm still expecting something like Shift 2, and will be pleasantly surprised and buy it when it turns out to be something better than that.

Dave

I think you will be pleasantly surprised then. The TD is on a different planet to S2U. As much as I enjoyed Shift (despite the questionable physics), this is a proper sim.

 

[Mr Whippy]

whats the point on that? that we should not ask for a 3rd option?

The point is before they got the green light with our support, they were just gonna offer both Steam or conventional buying solutions, obviously.

Then once they got green light support they now remove choice and only offer Steam.

If they can do it with this, what is to say that modding support might not just disappear? Or any other feature?

We are all fans of this game but they are leveraging the communities power to achieve superior commercial results and reduce choice for the consumer here.


Jorge, just don't buy AC. It's simple. Only when people vote with their feet will game developers start respecting their customer base.

Dave

 

[Mr Whippy]

I think you will be pleasantly surprised then. The TD is on a different planet to S2U. As much as I enjoyed Shift (despite the questionable physics), this is a proper sim.

Yes but it might change.

Have KS confirmed anything about what AC is going to be, or are you making assumptions that it will remain what you believe it will be?

Some people foolishly believed if AC made it onto Steam they could still buy a non-Steam version... oops.

Modding will be next given the current trend.

Dave

 

[Senad Subasic]

Modding will be next given the current trend.

Dave

And next, they'll be coming for our guns.

Correct me if I'm wrong, I haven't followed it that closely, but they never specified which purchasing options will be available. And modding was announced and advertised from the start.

I personally never expected a boxed DVD product. In my mind, it was Steam and probably a download from their site, as with netkar. Nothing else makes sense.

 

[CKraegel]

This thread is so funny i believe the guys from kunos really enjoy reading all this stuff (in their very limited free time)