The SimFeedback-AC DIY Motion Simulator thread

sjb266 · Sep 17, 2018

Hey guys. Thought I’d create a thread for those taking the plunge into this brilliant DIY project..
I will be starting mine soon and I know there are others thinking about it.. so feel free to share your knowledge and experiences so we can all enjoy this platform to its full potential. A huge thanks to the developers who have really knocked this one out of the park!

Website: https://opensfx.com/2019/02/20/welcome-to-our-new-site/

Github: https://github.com/SimFeedback/SimFeedback-AC-Servo/wiki

For all the internals for the actuator contact Amy - skye@ntl-bearing.com
She can supply everything you need. Just remind her you want the ends of the shafts chamfered and make sure she sends the right sized ball screw - we have had a couple of issues reported. She is very helpful though and the cost is pretty good.

Huge thanks to @RowanH for writing a comprehensive user guide which can be accessed here - https://www.rowanhick.com/sfx-100-build-and-running-guide

In addition, @anton_Chez has contributed a list of post numbers for some of the important settings etc..
Post #320 SFX-100 thread
Post #327 SFX-100 thread for Discord correlation
Post #339 SFX-100 thread
Post #418 SFX-100 thread
Post #424 SFX-100 thread
Post #439 SFX-100 thread
Post #449 SFX-100 thread
Post #517 SFX-100 thread
Post #554 SFX-100 thread
Post #580 SFX-100 thread
Post #826 SFX-100 thread
Post #837 SFX-100 thread
Post #864,866,867,868,870,887,889,897 SFX-100 thread
Post #911,914 SFX-100 thread
Post #988,992,998 SFX-100 thread
Post #1147 SFX-100 thread
Post #1492 SFX-100 thread
Post #1511,1517 SFX-100 thread

I will try to keep this page updated with links to source the parts in other parts of the world. Just post whatever links you have and i'll add them here.

Please note: Not all the parts listed below are essential for the project. For the essential parts refer to the original shopping list.

Australia:

Thanks to @AussieSim for the following links:

10A power lead(s) * 4
https://www.jaycar.com.au/2m-black-mains-extension-lead/p/PS4152

Top quality wire stripper
https://sydneytools.com.au/product/boxo-cutws205-multifunction-wire-stripper

RCD/safety switch power block
https://www.bunnings.com.au/arlec-4-outlet-heavy-duty-portable-safety-switch_p4420028

WD-40 lithium grease for the ball screws
https://www.bunnings.com.au/wd-40-specialist-300g-high-performance-white-lithium-grease_p6100408

Vibration pads
https://www.bunnings.com.au/whites-on-site-100-x-12-5mm-rubber-anti-vibration-mat-4-pack_p3961547

WD-40 Dry PTFE spray for the slider (free shipping)
https://au.rs-online.com/mobile/p/lubricants/7577134/

Arduino Leonardo (free shipping + frequent 10-15% off discount)
https://www.arrow.com/en/products/a000057/arduino-corporation

DB25 cables * 4 (free shipping)
https://www.arrow.com/en/products/ak401-2/assmann-wsw-components-inc

PETG * 3 (free shipping)
https://www.arrow.com/en/products/petg17bk1/mg-chemicals

WAGO-like connectors to avoid a breadboard (perhaps use genuine ones if you are doing 240V AC)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32906719488.html

D-Sub breakout boards * 4
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32297675967.html

3D printer Creality Ender-3 Pro
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32918302452.html

Wires from Arduino to D-Sub breakout (remove black plastic from the WAGO end)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32887680826.html

Crimp connectors for AC wire leads
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32813550981.html

Insert Coin · Oct 14, 2019

A picture of the 230 V net line close to the servo driver, before the Schaffner FN 2090 net filter:

The 230 V net line close to the wall outlet. filtered by the Schaffner FN 2090 net filter:

Both measured with the EMI probe touching the power line.

diablo2112 · Oct 14, 2019

Personally, I’m not a fan of quantitative tuning of flow/extrusion. I’ve tried that method, and it never really hit the sweet spot. I prefer to visually assess a part, and tune from there. You need a part with many layers of solid infill to tune flow correctly. Wait for at least the 3rd or 4th solid layer of infill, and carefully inspect this. A part with proper flow will look almost solid, with no gaps between infill lines, and only the very slightest of gaps at the edge where it turns 180 degrees for the next line. In the other direction, you don’t want blobs or smears (perpendicular to the infill direction) either, especially at the corners where it finishes the infill. It’s a learned skill. See pic, below for reference.

BTW, someone else mentioned to tune the “extruder” first before flow. There’s only 2 things to tune here: Z-height and flow. Z-height ONLY EFFECTS THE FIRST LAYER. It’s a common misconception that you tune Z-height to correct layers and get even infill. This is only true for the first layer. Anything above this, and you have to adjust flow. If you adjust Z-height above the first layer, it will appear you’re correcting flow, but only because you’ve adjusted the offset to the layer below. On subsequent layers, the printer will return to printing at your given layer height, and the problem will return. I can’t tell you how many beginners make the mistake of trying to adjust Z-height to correct infill problems. This is wrong. Z-height is first layer, only. You adjust flow (extrusion multiplier) on anything above the first layer.

Here’s what proper flow gives for infill and perimeters on an SFX part. Note, I’ve printed over 15 complete sets of these in many thousands of hours of printing. These results took much time and tuning to achieve. Again, good luck.

RCR_Finn · Oct 14, 2019

Thank you, Insert Coin. Unfortunately my electrical engineering skills are very limited, so I need to ask; is the conclusion that if I get the Schaffner FN 2090, I don't need to worry about EMI?

RCR_Finn · Oct 14, 2019

diablo2112 said:
BTW, someone else mentioned to tune the “extruder” first before flow. There’s only 2 things to tune here: Z-height and flow. Z-height ONLY EFFECTS THE FIRST LAYER. It’s a common misconception that you tune Z-height to correct layers and get even infill. This is only true for the first layer. Anything above this, and you have to adjust flow. If you adjust Z-height above the first layer, it will appear you’re correcting flow, but only because you’re adjusted the offset to the layer below. On subsequent layers, the printer will return to printing at your given layer height, and the problem will return. I can’t tell you how many beginners make the mistake of trying to adjust Z-height to correct infill problems. This is wrong. Z-height is first layer, only. You adjust flow (extrusion multiplier) on anything above the first layer.

I admire your results, and appreciate that you have achieved those with the methods you find working best, but please do refrain from spreading misinformation. What you are adjusting as "flow (extrusion multiplier)" means compensating for an incorrectly calibrated extruder. Ok, you can use it to fine-tune the flow/extrusion too, but the correct way to fix under-extrusion is to first make sure that your extruder is calibrated correctly, and then fine-tune if needed.

Please have a read, if you are not familiar with extruder calibration:
https://all3dp.com/2/extruder-calibration-6-easy-steps-2/

EsxPaul · Oct 14, 2019

Awesome work @Insert Coin Thank you

diablo2112 · Oct 14, 2019

RCR_Finn said:
I admire your results, and appreciate that you have achieved those with the methods you find working best, but please do refrain from spreading misinformation. What you are adjusting as "flow (extrusion multiplier)" means compensating for an incorrectly calibrated extruder. Ok, you can use it to fine-tune the flow/extrusion too, but the correct way to fix under-extrusion is to first make sure that your extruder is calibrated correctly, and then fine-tune if needed.

Please have a read, if you are not familiar with extruder calibration:
https://all3dp.com/2/extruder-calibration-6-easy-steps-2/

I’m completely at a loss to understand what you’re talking about here. What do you mean by tuning the “extruder”? Idle wheel tension? Sure, but that’s easy. The results we’re talking about here pertain to the only 2 parameters that you can adjust on extrusion: z-height, and the amount of filament extruded. This second parameter goes by many names, but they all control the same, single thing. I call this “flow”. Some call it “extrusion multiplier”. As Prusa themselves state, flow rate = flow x extrusion multiplier x e-steps. It’s all the same thing, no matter what you call it. You can adjust any of these, to get the same result. Heck, I have Bondtech 3:1 geared extruders which require massive adjustments. I just adjusted flow settings on my printers to achieve these, and they’ve worked great for thousands of hours since. Didn’t bother to calibrate the “extruder”. It’s not necessary. There’s really no need to worry about flow, multiplier, or e-steps and which gets adjusted. It doesn’t matter, they’re the same thing. Really.

Again, I’m at a loss to what you’re suggesting be adjusted first.

RCR_Finn · Oct 14, 2019

diablo2112 said:
I’m completely at a loss to understand what you’re talking about here. What do you mean by tuning the “extruder”? Idle wheel tension? Sure, but that’s easy. The results we’re talking about here pertain to the only 2 parameters that you can adjust on extrusion: z-height, and the amount of filament extruded. This second parameter goes by many names, but they all control the same, single thing. I call this “flow”. Some call it “extrusion multiplier”. As Prusa themselves state, flow rate = flow x extrusion multiplier. It’s the same thing, no matter what you call it.

Again, I’m at a loss to what you’re suggesting be adjusted first.

You obviously didn't bother visiting the link. Please do, will you? I am talking about calibrating one of the stepper motors in your 3D-printer, which is commonly referred to as the extruder. The filament does not just magically "flow" without something making it do that...

diablo2112 · Oct 14, 2019

Slow down. I perfectly understand what you’re saying. E-steps (your “extruder” calibration”, the number of pulses sent to an extruder motor to move a given amount of filament) are no different than changing flow. They’re identical, the same thing, they get multiplied in the slicer to determine the amount of filament extruded.

I upgraded my 3 printers to geared extruder heads. I didn’t bother to update the e-steps value, it’s unneeded (and there’s good reasons not too, namely, you don’t lock yourself into some companies modified firmware upgrades). You can adjust this as easily by changing flow (via the baseline flow value, the M92 parameter in Prusa controllers), which is what I did, and what is recommended by many who upgrade to geared extruders.

My info is not “misinformation” as you suggested. It’s the recommend means to achieve very good results, developed by many experts in this field.

Changing the "extruder" calibration (the "e-steps" value), changing the "extrusion multiplier" in the slicer, and changing "flow" on the printer ARE CHANGING THE SAME THING. You can do anyone of these, period. "Calibrating" your extruder is exactly the same as adjusting "flow". Really. Sure, there's 2 (actually, 3) parameters here. They all get multiplied. Doesn't matter which one you tune, knock yourself out. I've found it far, far easier to tune flow at the printer during a print to get things perfect (see above). This is time-tested advice from thousands of other hobbiests. But, if you want to first calibrate your extruder, then turn around and calibrate flow, go for it. Just know, you're adjusting the same thing, twice.

RCR_Finn · Oct 14, 2019

diablo2112 said:
Slow down. I perfectly understand what you’re saying. You didn’t read what I said. E-steps (your “extruder” calibration”) are no different than changing flow. They’re identical, the same thing, they get multiplied in the slicer to determine the amount of filament extruded. I upgraded my 3 printers to geared extruder heads. I didn’t bother to update the e-steps value, it’s unneeded (and there’s good reasons not too, namely, you don’t lock yourself into some companies modified firmware upgrades). You can adjust this as easily by changing flow, which is what I did (and what is recommended by many who upgrade to geared extruders.

I’d gently suggest you stop confusing beginners with a subject I’m not 100% sure you fully understand, here. My info is not “misinformation” as you suggested. It’s the recommend means to achieve very good results, developed by many experts in this field.

I,too, have upgraded to a geared extruder, and performed the calibration regardingly. I am not sure you fully understand how 3D-printers or their firmwares work, but there definitely is no need to lock yourself into anything, let alone to a modified firmware upgrade, if you want to calibrate ANY of your stepper motors. What calibrating makes them do is travel the exact distance that ANY slicer would tell them, without a need to compensate the lack of proper calibration in the slicer settings.

All you need to do is open a terminal session to your printer's controller board and send standard gcode commands (based on your calculations of actual results vs 3D object and current stepper calibration) to tell the printer how many e-steps a certain distance in real world is supposed to be. What you are suggesting as the "developed by experts" is that basically you have a printer that thinks that 100mm is 25mm, so when you want 100mm, you adjust your slicer so that it says that "please do 400% of the 100mm so that it ends up being 100mm also in my printer which would think it's 25mm".

diablo2112 · Oct 14, 2019

RCR_Finn said:
What you are suggesting as the "developed by experts" is that basically you have a printer that thinks that 100mm is 25mm, so when you want 100mm, you adjust your slicer so that it says that "please do 400% of the 100mm so that it ends up being 100mm also in my printer which would think it's 25mm".

Not quite. I adjust a persistent variable in the printer firmware, not the slicer. Specifically, the M92 parameter (and yes, I do this via terminal)*. As far as the slicer is concernned, it says extrude xx mm^3 of filament, and the printer quite nicely does exactly that, and extrudes precisely xx mm^3.

The difference here is I don't bother with measuring how long a filament strand is extruded when told to extrude say, 100mm of filament. As I said in my first post, I've personally found these quantitative methods (measuring filament length consumed, measuring wall thickness, etc) just don't work that well. I've had to tune and adjust even after going with these methods. I've found it far simpler to just jump straight to adjustment of flow via visual inspection. It's simpler, takes less time, and works perfectly.

*If you really, really want to know how to modify M92, I use this procedure: Adjust flow in situ on a benchmark print, note the proper flow value (usually somewhere between 80 and 120). Get the current flow ratio from the printer (M502 command), note this value (usually around 400 for a geared extruder). Ratio this against the flow parameter found in situ, above, divided by 95 (the default flow value for Prusa slicers). Upload the new value (via M92 = xxx). Then write these to EEPROM via M500.

Hees · Oct 14, 2019

@diablo2112, would you mind sharing your exact settings for the sliced STL, if you do not mind of course.

ummmm, just from my very humble experience in this field what i found out about Printing PLA on the (cheaper printers), i find the glue stick with out heated bed is the best way to avoid wrapping And peeling of the bed, but in order to do this the bed should be calibrated sooo well.
My argument is again in my humble opinion, the cheap printers can’t maintain the same temp it fluctuates which gets us to your point about temp changes.
(That is my own opinion based on my own experience).

diablo2112 · Oct 14, 2019

Hees said:
@diablo2112, would you mind sharing your exact settings for the sliced STL

When I was using a 0.4mm nozzle to print, I used the default settings (0.25 layer height, 8 perimeters, 12 top, 12 bottom layers. 20% rectilinear infill. Random perimeter start points. 5mm, single layer brim.). Currently, I print with a 0.6mm nozzle (shown in pic, above) and have a rather complex slicer setup for this, with variable layer heights, etc.

Glue sticks are great if your PLA isn't sticking to the bed, but the biggest thing is to get proper Z-height + use a brim. That will solve your delamination problems. I'm not a fan of unheated beds (wait, is that a pun?!?). Complex reasons here, having to do with heat balances, heat flows, thermal expansion mismatches, and temperature differentials.

scoobyzilla · Oct 14, 2019

@RCR_Finn @diablo2112 I can see both your points because i have worked at this from the ground up, your extruder stepper motor needs to be right, there is no getting away from that if it is asked to move a 100mm it should move a 100mm, but the flow, that is about how it lays it down, and i can see to flow more, it has to push more filament, but it should 'know' how far to move a 100mm accurately imho so you are both right I think, but hey i have only been at this two weeks so what do i know - i have done two things now increase the extruder multiplier and raise the temp a bit to 215 and it looks better lets see how it fairs size wise - and i totally agree on Z - only about first layer and being level and laying down layers consistently - i am using a BL touch, modded my firmware, running octoprint - boy have been on the whole journey lol

adekid · Oct 14, 2019

Hello guys. did Anyone try with a resin printer? too stiff for the job? Not enough flexible? I just bought an anycubic photon and I am not sure if its worth it a try. Thanks

saxxon66 · Oct 14, 2019

Hey guys,
maybe it's just me, but don't you think that some topics are getting very strongly mixed here?

In the German forum we do have three dedicated threads:

1. Main/Global
2. 3D Printing
3. Shopping List

this works very well.

What do you think, should we split up the topics into dedicated threads?

diablo2112 · Oct 14, 2019

Good idea. A 3D printing thread will help many, given the frequent questions here.

BluePotato00 · Oct 14, 2019

saxxon66 said:
Hey guys,
maybe it's just me, but don't you think that some topics are getting very strongly mixed here?

In the German forum we do have three dedicated threads:

1. Main/Global
2. 3D Printing
3. Shopping List

this works very well.

What do you think, should we split up the topics into dedicated threads?

I proposed this a couple months ago here. People seemed keen on the idea. I've submitted a message to the forum administrators to inquire about a separate SFX-100 / SimFeedback folder in the existing Hardware forum folder.

Insert Coin · Oct 15, 2019

scoobyzilla said:
I have spent two weeks tuning the printing, following teaching tech and really trying to get my head round everything (BL touch, bed levelling, G Code etc) I am using simply3d, Ender 3 Pro. I have spent a while trying to research the cause of this myself, but without success - and I have seen some lovely prints (to my frustration!!) on here and wonder why mine are still sub standard in my view. I have got the dimensions correct after carefully adjusting the extruder distance, and also working on the thickness of the print (following Michael's guides) but i cant seem to get to a resolution on why the top outer layers are not bonded? Could it be under extrusion? I am suing PLA, I have the bed at 60 (print became detached on another trial at 47) and head at 210 - this is one at 190 but no different at 210 - I have also slowed things down a bit by about 20 % - using my finger to exaggerate the issue - any comments most welcome
View attachment 329266

Maybe my post about 3D printing with an Ender 3 Pro helps?

Insert Coin · Oct 15, 2019

RCR_Finn said:
Thank you, Insert Coin. Unfortunately my electrical engineering skills are very limited, so I need to ask; is the conclusion that if I get the Schaffner FN 2090, I don't need to worry about EMI?

I wish it was that simple. The Schaffner filter prevents EMI and distortion being sent back to the 230 V net, so it doesn't cause trouble on other 230 V equipment (and it seems to help lowering EMI a bit as a whole). But the cables going from the servo driver to the servo still emit EMI the most (servo power cable much worse than the encoder cable). Keep these cables away from USB cables. Use quality shielded USB cables with ferrite cores (preinstalled or added). Route the servo cables through the channels your rig if possible. Connect your rig, servo drivers and all other equipment to ground. Use a metal case around the servo drivers if possible, again connected to ground. Shielding without ground doesn't help. Distance between the servo cables and other cables helps.

scoobyzilla · Oct 15, 2019

Insert Coin said:
Maybe my post about 3D printing with an Ender 3 Pro helps?

I had followed most of this to the letter combined with teaching tech and everything else i can find - i am close but increasing flow seems to make the slider too big - so today I am going back to square one and repeating everything - check the basics and go forward - my gut feeling is that one axis is not accurate and my pla is not that good - and thank you for posting such a comprehensive guide I got a piece of glass on the basis of that and it changed things hugely - why they do not ship one with it seems a pointless exercise

The SimFeedback-AC DIY Motion Simulator thread

Micha

Yes

No