The SimFeedback-AC DIY Motion Simulator thread

sjb266 · Sep 17, 2018

Hey guys. Thought I’d create a thread for those taking the plunge into this brilliant DIY project..
I will be starting mine soon and I know there are others thinking about it.. so feel free to share your knowledge and experiences so we can all enjoy this platform to its full potential. A huge thanks to the developers who have really knocked this one out of the park!

Website: https://opensfx.com/2019/02/20/welcome-to-our-new-site/

Github: https://github.com/SimFeedback/SimFeedback-AC-Servo/wiki

For all the internals for the actuator contact Amy - skye@ntl-bearing.com
She can supply everything you need. Just remind her you want the ends of the shafts chamfered and make sure she sends the right sized ball screw - we have had a couple of issues reported. She is very helpful though and the cost is pretty good.

Huge thanks to @RowanH for writing a comprehensive user guide which can be accessed here - https://www.rowanhick.com/sfx-100-build-and-running-guide

In addition, @anton_Chez has contributed a list of post numbers for some of the important settings etc..
Post #320 SFX-100 thread
Post #327 SFX-100 thread for Discord correlation
Post #339 SFX-100 thread
Post #418 SFX-100 thread
Post #424 SFX-100 thread
Post #439 SFX-100 thread
Post #449 SFX-100 thread
Post #517 SFX-100 thread
Post #554 SFX-100 thread
Post #580 SFX-100 thread
Post #826 SFX-100 thread
Post #837 SFX-100 thread
Post #864,866,867,868,870,887,889,897 SFX-100 thread
Post #911,914 SFX-100 thread
Post #988,992,998 SFX-100 thread
Post #1147 SFX-100 thread
Post #1492 SFX-100 thread
Post #1511,1517 SFX-100 thread

I will try to keep this page updated with links to source the parts in other parts of the world. Just post whatever links you have and i'll add them here.

Please note: Not all the parts listed below are essential for the project. For the essential parts refer to the original shopping list.

Australia:

Thanks to @AussieSim for the following links:

10A power lead(s) * 4
https://www.jaycar.com.au/2m-black-mains-extension-lead/p/PS4152

Top quality wire stripper
https://sydneytools.com.au/product/boxo-cutws205-multifunction-wire-stripper

RCD/safety switch power block
https://www.bunnings.com.au/arlec-4-outlet-heavy-duty-portable-safety-switch_p4420028

WD-40 lithium grease for the ball screws
https://www.bunnings.com.au/wd-40-specialist-300g-high-performance-white-lithium-grease_p6100408

Vibration pads
https://www.bunnings.com.au/whites-on-site-100-x-12-5mm-rubber-anti-vibration-mat-4-pack_p3961547

WD-40 Dry PTFE spray for the slider (free shipping)
https://au.rs-online.com/mobile/p/lubricants/7577134/

Arduino Leonardo (free shipping + frequent 10-15% off discount)
https://www.arrow.com/en/products/a000057/arduino-corporation

DB25 cables * 4 (free shipping)
https://www.arrow.com/en/products/ak401-2/assmann-wsw-components-inc

PETG * 3 (free shipping)
https://www.arrow.com/en/products/petg17bk1/mg-chemicals

WAGO-like connectors to avoid a breadboard (perhaps use genuine ones if you are doing 240V AC)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32906719488.html

D-Sub breakout boards * 4
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32297675967.html

3D printer Creality Ender-3 Pro
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32918302452.html

Wires from Arduino to D-Sub breakout (remove black plastic from the WAGO end)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32887680826.html

Crimp connectors for AC wire leads
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32813550981.html

Tronicgr_6DOF · May 25, 2019

HugoB said:
Quick question for you guys: I've been studying the 'sway' effect in SimFeedback (Assetto Corsa) and I've noticed almost all profiles I've got from Discord have it inverted compared to the original AC profile from @saxxon66 ...

I've always been running it like the base profile, meaning that if I initiate a right corner, the rig quickly tilts to the right. At high speed this works well (with for example GT3 or F1 cars), because this way my Sparco seat's shoulders push my shoulders correctly: in a right hand corner, my left shoulder gets a push, or, it feels like I get pushed into my left shoulder (kindof, with some imagination ). In the new RSS F1 2019 this feels great when tuned correctly to the g-forces of the car, I can feel the grip in a corner loosing or catching, jolting me in a fashion my brain expects. This should be the effect in my opinion, but it has a massive downside: this 'sway' effect is of course being applied to the roll axis, so when the car rolls, this roll motion is opposite to the 'sway' effect. At high speeds in cars with anti roll bars or very stiff suspension this is not a problem because the car doesn't roll that much anyway, so the 'sway' effect is dominant, but with slower cars that don't generate that much g-forces or cars that roll a lot with soft suspension etc. the sway and roll cancel each other out in corners and it's a shame to lose the roll information of the car!

Now I've tried inverting the 'sway' effect like most everyone else, but it feels weird to me, it feels like I'm on some wobbly bouncy ball. But I can understand the sentiment.

I think I'll turn off the 'sway' effect for cars that roll a lot, and leave it on for high speed F1 action. I should be receiving my g-seat sway panels from SeatTime soon, I think these will make much more sense and then I can hopefully do away with the 'sway' effect on the roll axis.

How do you think about this? Do you use 'sway' and in what direction?

Also, I've ordered multiple Arduino shields, so I'm anxious to build a traction loss platform and use a dedicated actuator for this. I've found that PT-Actuators have a fold-back actuator that other people have demonstrated to use with TL: http://pt-actuator.com/proshow.asp?strID=127 It uses the same AASD-15A servo controller with DB25 connectors that will work with our Arduino and SimFeedback.

Does anyone already use TL? What type of actuator? @saxxon66 will this fold-back actuator (with belt) do the job or should we be building a geared slider or such?

Just an observation about backfold actuators... You won't be able to push them manually to fully retract position like the SFX100... you would need a powered solution for homing.

And for the mechanics you would need an extra layer arranged like this:

(Ignore the 4 actuators and drives in the photo...)

anton_Chez · May 26, 2019

I liked the Sway as it is in AC stock profile. But I've been using it now for ages like the V3 had it. Turn right, seat moves opposite direction of the turn. I've recently tweaked my sway graph for more immediate and forceful movement upon the initial change of direction, but limited the movement so it's only traveling maximum 20mm.

I'll paste the profile in Discord once I'm completely happy with it. Try it and see. You've made me curious now to go back and try it the stock AC way like I was a while ago.

Phil Gravett · May 26, 2019

First post here

Wow I so want to do this,

Quick question, before I embark on trying to read through this thread

What’s the ball park UK cost of the all parts ?
has anyone produced a parts and supplier list ?

Thanks in advance

Phil G

EsxPaul · May 26, 2019

Phil Gravett said:
First post here

Wow I so want to do this,

Quick question, before I embark on trying to read through this thread

What’s the ball park UK cost of the all parts ?
has anyone produced a parts and supplier list ?

Thanks in advance

Phil G

I'd estimate 1.5 to 2K and the shopping list is in the first post on this thread.

If you get stuck there is a ton of knowledge and help from all the guys here.

Get that credit card dusted off

ThugUK · May 26, 2019

I agree, a little over 1.5k.
It’s easier than it appears too (all so I thought).

C64 · May 26, 2019

Phil Gravett said:
First post here

Wow I so want to do this,

Quick question, before I embark on trying to read through this thread

What’s the ball park UK cost of the all parts ?
has anyone produced a parts and supplier list ?

Thanks in advance

Phil G

I worked out it cost me just under £1500 for all the stuff.

There is a shopping list for the uk here... note the url for the shopping list does not have a hyperlink... just cut n paste into your browser.

https://opensfx.com/shopping-list-and-sourcing-parts/

Furnace Inferno · May 26, 2019

Cost me nearly £2k including everything, customs charges, software, tools etc.

wajdi · May 26, 2019

Sway should be a te opposite of roll.
In SimTools I had the Sway much more high that the Roll. In general, Race cars, specially modem cars don’t roll much but they have a lot of lateral G force.
I don’t know how your software work but in SimTools there is a tuning center where you can tune how much of range of motion you want for every DOF.
Personally I like a very short but fast movement specially Sway and Surge.

Mr Latte · May 26, 2019

wajdi said:
Sway should be a te opposite of roll.
In SimTools I had the Sway much more high that the Roll. In general, Race cars, specially modem cars don’t roll much but they have a lot of lateral G force.
I don’t know how your software work but in SimTools there is a tuning center where you can tune how much of range of motion you want for every DOF.
Personally I like a very short but fast movement specially Sway and Surge.

G-Forces can be greatly enhanced as can RPM and I believe more detailed bumps with additional tactile.
I don't understand some peoples approach of writing off optional ways to enhance the immersion by better combining both and this attack on the notion as already happened on this thread.

Maybe I will discover in my own build what the possibilities are but for very good sensations with G-Forces to compliment the motion you need large BK units (or similar) that can deliver the unique feel of floaty deep bass. Its something which small basic/units don't deliver with enough energy or at all. Trust me I have tested many different tactile and know the limitations.

We can, however, use the tactile to generate a sensation of the cars chassis vibration during these high G-loads or apply judder feel under braking. It just needs some creativity just as we can use SPEED based effects to add additional engine load sensations or we can use SPEED to add immersion to (fans) wind simulation for wind noise based sensations.

I certainly don't think motion (vibration) is giving you guys everything you can achieve and nor will Simvibe or just basic tactile units. The better or more capable hardware you use the more you can achieve but software like Shakeit is bringing much more control and options to what we can do with tactile.

As an alternative to Simvibe based engine, feel free to check out my own testing/effects development. I'm all up for criticism or opinions.

SimHub Shakeit
V3 2.0 RPM/Engine Profile
Available on the Simhub Discord channel

It will be months before I am ready to install SFX but have been gradually gathering bits of it up. Thanks to members on the forums for helping.

.

Ringorian · May 26, 2019

My profiles in f35 iracing have no Roll activated, Just Roll and Pitch rate to realize driving on a curb etc .. and sway gives a lot of Sensation with short and fast movements .. feels great in fast Corners .. in Kartkraft i have only heave and sway activated and surge for my Belt tensioner .. sometimes less is more

wajdi · May 26, 2019

Yes, less roll and mod Sway and Surge. Pitch is important when you drive in tracks like Spa.

Wmacky · May 26, 2019

Mr Latte said:
G-Forces can be greatly enhanced as can RPM and I believe more detailed bumps with additional tactile.
I don't understand some peoples approach of writing off optional ways to enhance the immersion by better combining both and this attack on the notion as already happened on this thread.

Maybe I will discover in my own build what the possibilities are but for very good sensations with G-Forces to compliment the motion you need large BK units (or similar) that can deliver the unique feel of floaty deep bass. Its something which small basic/units don't deliver with enough energy or at all. Trust me I have tested many different tactile and know the limitations.

We can, however, use the tactile to generate a sensation of the cars chassis vibration during these high G-loads or apply judder feel under braking. It just needs some creativity just as we can use SPEED based effects to add additional engine load sensations or we can use SPEED to add immersion to (fans) wind simulation for wind noise based sensations.

I certainly don't think motion (vibration) is giving you guys everything you can achieve and nor will Simvibe or just basic tactile units. The better or more capable hardware you use the more you can achieve but software like Shakeit is bringing much more control and options to what we can do with tactile.

As an alternative to Simvibe based engine, feel free to check out my own testing/effects development. I'm all up for criticism or opinions.

SimHub Shakeit
V3 2.0 RPM/Engine Profile
Available on the Simhub Discord channel

It will be months before I am ready to install SFX but have been gradually gathering bits of it up. Thanks to members on the forums for helping.

.

I agree. I plan to add tactile to my SFX, for RPM and fine road vibration, and if I can add Gforce sensation that would be a nice bonus since I have no plans for a G seat. However, if the additional g force sensation push the cost much above $1000 that could be an issue.

Would this setup require more mount locations than just the seat and pedal deck I wonder?

anton_Chez · May 26, 2019

I'm not sure if the roll effect actually moves the chassis when the car turns. I think it's more to do with the car hitting a curb or maybe even banking, like JR suggested. I'll have to test this. I've been switching between inverted and 'normal' Sway effect settings and to be honest both feel pretty believable once your brain adapts to what to expect. I wonder if hitting a curb while tilted for Sway will be cancelled out if Sway and Roll are on the same direction? It's a strange one and probably the most difficult effect to tune both theoretically and practically. That is of course once you have your gear shift jolts under control

RowanH · May 26, 2019

wajdi said:
I don’t know how your software work but in SimTools there is a tuning center where you can tune how much of range of motion you want for every DOF..

All manner of control:

For each effect (eg roll) you have control over the intensity and smoothing of the input value, then the rate of the output value. With expert mode you can even set graphs (expert mode) that can control the "curve" applied to the individual effect/input. Most notably used for surge as everyone has very different personal tastes with how gearshifts interact with acceleration/braking. Eg if you don't like abrupt gearshifts you can smooth out the input values, and/or change the graph.

See here for more info : https://opensfx.com/simfeedback-setup-and-tuning/#tuning

Specialist68 · May 26, 2019

I dont understand, with disable sway and you go in a righthander like “Parabolica on Monza “
Your left goes high, That is not good so Turning sway on the left dives, that is correct
@Mascot

anton_Chez · May 27, 2019

That's where Roll should take over, when you're banked in that turn or at Daytona. It depends on what telemetry is sent as well as the car won't tilt if there is no telemetry telling the software it's banked.

This is something I'll have to try. I did a Daytona race last Sunday and definitely felt when I went up on the banking from the flat bit, both going up and down the bank. Not sure how tilted it was actually driving on the bank, however. You'd expect at least some if I was getting bounced around making my way to and from the banking.

wajdi · May 27, 2019

As I have said before, cars specially modern racing cars are very rigid don’t roll much. The few situations where there would roll a little is when they go over kerbs or during incidents so personally I use much more Sway and a littler of roll.

Mr Latte · May 27, 2019

A question I wanted to ask.

I need to make my cockpit frame wider than the typical SimLab design. This to help contain the inner section metal support structure. Which includes the isolation for my tactile and supports my seat and pedal sections.

The solution considered compromises of twin sets of individual left/right "tactile towers" that will greatly reduce stereo crosstalk of the tactile but also to control their path and energy flow where desired. Also, a huge part of using this solution is to restrict vibration noise. These "tactile towers" will bolt to additional vertical/horizontal 8020 supports (see images below).

All tactile are installed to steel/chrome tubing and isolated from the 8020 supports. None of the tactile connect with the 8020 frame.

Now as my BK units will extend out on plates it increases the width needed if I want the 8020 outer surround frame to encompass it all. One design idea I have needs an internal gap of 26" between the 8020 side supports. The other would require 34" internal gap between the 8020 side supports that the SFX actuators would then attach to.

What would be the ideal distance front-back to install the SFX actuators be with these options to give an ideal balance or ratio compared to the typical installation?

saxxon66 · May 27, 2019

The Sway discussion is as old as the Motion thing.
In general it is a very individual thing how you perceive the movement. There is no right or wrong.

Personally, I don't like the representation of static centrifugal forces by titling the platform.
But that's just me.

Here is my approach:

I use roll and pitch to simulate the position of the car in the world.
e.g. in a high banked turn like in "Karussell"or going uphill after "Ex-Mühle".

Because we can not simulate forces over a longer period of time, I am looking for the "Jerk", this is the rate of change over a period of time. For acceleration forces that is the difference of the acceleration from frame to frame.

I use the Jerk for heave effect to simulate the vertical acceleration (road texture, curbs) and longitudinal acceleration on pitch effect (gear change, breaking).

Using the the Jerk from angular velocity to simulate the roll and pitch of the car titling and rolling in it's local space.
Combining and filtering the effects is key.

But wait there is more ...
I do simulate the slip angle of the car using some geometric velocity calculations that will fast tilt the platform and will slowly return to the center position.
By doing this you can feel the rear of the car stepping out.
It feels nice, I can feel it better than a dedicated traction loss mechanics, at least the ones that I tried.

But again, that is only me.