The Future Looks Electric… But So Did The Past!

[Jan Larsen]

During Le Mans i heard commentators talking about hydrogen rules upcomming in...im not sure 2019?

Thats fine, but motorsport fans dont care about hydrogen in racing in general - no sounds. As with electric; great for the road, terrible for racing.

 

[ltcars]

Here: https://www.nationalgrid.com/uk/articles/electric-dreams-future-evs. They propose a number of alternative strategies but don't have a good track record when it comes to realistic forward planning.



If you want a sensible take on why global warming is not what you're being asked to believe, try reading this by Guus Berkhout (emeritus professor in physics and seismic imaging at Delft University of Technology, The Netherlands, founding director of the Centre for Global Socio-Economic Change (CFGSEC), a member of the Royal Netherlands Academy of Arts and Sciences (KNAW), and a senior member of the Netherlands Academy of Engineering): https://www.thegwpf.org/content/uploads/2018/06/Berkhout.pdf

Did you see Al Gore's take on the "it's just the counter ice age"? (An Inconvenient Truth) In summary, there is much more CO2 than there would be following the normal peaks and lows before a Hot Age

 

[Emery]

Had never heard of partinium, so looked it up:

from The Century Dictionary and Cyclopedia

• n. An alloy consisting of 96 parts of aluminium, 2.4 of antimony, .8 of tungsten, .64 of copper, and .16 of tin: invented by G. H. Partin. It can be either cast or rolled.

 

[DS6160]

The animosity towards EV is quite silly really. There is zero doubt that the future is all electric. EVs are superior in terms of performance and efficiency, and the zero emission bit is just the icing on the cake (to me). Regarding the capacity and energy density of the battery, and the larger renewable energy scene, it's all going to be there (and already making strides).

Also let's not forget the fact that combustion engine will be banned in the UK and France by 2040, while Germany has called for a ban across the entire EU by 2030. So to all the ICE fans out there, enjoy it while it lasts I guess.

 

[BrettSinclair1]

Energy storage was the main issue over 100 years ago. Energy storage is the main issue today.
Quite shocking to see how - politically - hyped electric cars are, despite of this.

 

[chili pepper]

I should preface this by saying that I do not own an electric vehicle. As I work from home, I drive quite a bit less as a result. But when I drive, I drive petrol powered cars. My earliest memories of time with my father were watching auto racing and tooling around with engines. The first books I read were about cars and I was immediately intrigued by them as a child. I did science reports on cars and engines in school, even went so far as to hacksaw a lawnmower engine in half to demonstrate how they worked internally to my classmates (with one very tired arm, I might add). All my friends were gearheads as well, and we spent hours skinning knuckles and having fun working on cars together. Yes, I do have a strong romance with the feelings, sounds and smells associated with cars and the internal combustion engine in all it's variations. Having said all that, I'm also acutely aware that, due to many factors, they are not a viable option in transporting the masses for the future.

Hydrogen is another alternative to zero-emission, but its complex, expensive and has zero infrastructure to support it.

All true issues with Hydrogen, but all things that can be overcome, if we so desire. While it does present challenges, I personally think it may be a better and potentially more sustainable option to consider for the future.

The forces driving the electric market at the moment are going for the "easier" option, but is it really that much better than where we've been? Battery manufacturing (from raw material acquisition to finish product) for the current crop of electrics is an incredibly filthy and damaging endeavor, probably one of my biggest issues with them. Well, that and the general smugness of some of those who currently own and drive them. As pointed out by another poster, the pollution source is just being shifted at the moment...so long as it isn't your tailpipe pumping it out, you're a better, greener human than the next, correct? Yeah, right...

Remember this, no matter what we choose, we all bear some responsibility for the state of things (even if you don't own or drive a car) and we will all either reap the benefits or suffer the consequences of our decisions together, whether we agree or not. We need to think beyond ourselves.

PS - It is not my intent, though I know this will probably piss some people off....if you still think there is no direct and negative effect from the actions of humans on this planet, you are delusional and should consider getting your head checked. Seriously, no joking and no insult intended. Ignorance does not defy logic (or science). Think.

FWIW & slightly OT - I personally think our biggest issue overall is overpopulation. No one ever wants to talk about it, though. I was born in 1971, the world's population has doubled since then...in just 47 years. Over 7 billion people now. Think about that for a second. Pollution and waste generation would likely not be issues at all (or certainly not to the magnitude they are now) if we could control ourselves a bit. And I think you know what I mean...

 

[Sim Strata]

I am another who thinks electric tech is a dead end tech. From my research it simply will not be possible to produce enough batteries to power the world. Induction charging is horrendously inefficient on top of transmission losses in delivering the staggering amounts of electricity needed to power these cars (A fully charged Tesla Model S would power a family house for week!). Never mind the fact that the energy density of gasoline has no equal thus far (maybe uranium has something to say on that), the Swedes did a study on EVs and concluded that it takes 150kg of CO2 to produce a 1KWH battery. That makes a Tesla Model S about as efficient over 100,000 miles as a BMW M6. But that is a by the by as we probably averted, if the historical proxy measurements are correct, a CO2 crisis for our plant-life anyway!!

Not personally sure about overpopulation either. Bert Rutan stated that all the bio matter in the world could fit in a 3km^3 space, which is a surprising number. I have personally see that in Africa, Middle East and Asia there is a staggering amount of wilderness out there. Vast areas of the world are not very populated at all. People just want to move to Europe for political, and thus, economic reasons. Make every country a liberal democracy, wait two hundred years, problem solved

 

[chili pepper]

Not personally sure about overpopulation either. Bert Rutan stated that all the bio matter in the world could fit in a 3km^3 space, which is a surprising number. I have personally see that in Africa, Middle East and Asia there is a staggering amount of wilderness out there. Vast areas of the world are not very populated at all. People just want to move to Europe for political, and thus, economic reasons. Make every country a liberal democracy, wait two hundred years, problem solved

Overpopulation is not a matter of physical space, that is a very common error made in the discussion, and typically one of the first items raised. It's actually more a combination of population numbers, natural resource availability, gross consumerism and disposable manufacturing, to touch on a few of the major points, space really doesn't factor. And because we have this illusion of available space (esp. here in the US) we tend not to see the issue clearly. But all of that will definitely send us careening off the original topic and is rather deep discussion in itself. Best left for another forum.

Someone say something about electric cars?

 

[JusTiCe8]

Electric vehicles are not in the right time, thanks to oil companies which have terminated any attempt to provide better and cleaner energy source (which would have jeopardized the billions they've made so far) and governments for get away from nuclear power plants. How they think energy will be generated ? Unemployed people and poor forced to cycle all day ?

The future is for the, soon uncovered, fart-powered cars ! Beans will be mass produced thanks to former Mosanto-xic crap, with higher fart per bean gram ratio. Race cars will get turbo-Fart engines, so future will be actually green as they want but not as they think.
Of course, this amazing innovation is brought to us by VolksWagen, always ahead when it comes to be clean .

 

[GTSpeedster]

Nuclear power is the most efficient, by far the most sustainable and cleanest technology for electricity generation mankind has ever created. Oh but wait... it carries the word nuclear in it! As in nuclear BOMB!!! And we can't have that in the ideological fantasyland we're currently living in where virtue signalling is paramount.

To burn coal, oil, natural gas and alike but now renaming it "clean energy" all the while stealing people's savings somehow just seems more sensible as people believe anything an authority figure tells them.

 

[ltcars]

Nuclear power is the most efficient, by far the most sustainable and cleanest technology for electricity generation mankind has ever created. Oh but wait... it carries the word nuclear in it! As in nuclear BOMB!!! And we can't have that in the ideological fantasyland we're currently living in where virtue signalling is paramount.

To burn coal, oil, natural gas and alike but now renaming it "clean energy" all the while stealing people's savings somehow just seems more sensible as people believe anything an authority figure tells them.

And there is the problem of storing the nuclear waist foe 1000+ years

 

[Sim Strata]

I reckon Nuclear Power tech will lurch from one disaster to the next until they give up with it.

 

[GTSpeedster]

And there is the problem of storing the nuclear waist foe 1000+ years

Not exactly. To begin with all forms of thermal generation of electricity produce waste. The amount of waste produced by the nuclear power however is much smaller relative to the other generation forms. In fact after 40 years the radioactivity level decreases to about 1000th of the level it was first unloaded. And there are already many technologies developed for the final disposal of all of the waste the nuclear power produces.

I reckon Nuclear Power tech will lurch from one disaster to the next until they give up with it.

There have been two major nuclear "disasters". Fukushima. Which was a natural disaster caused by a seismic event and a massive tsunami.

And Chernobyl. On account of communism - which is a far worse and way more lethal disaster in itself.

 

[chili pepper]

And there is the problem of storing the nuclear waist foe 1000+ years

That may be changing. There are emerging technologies in the nuclear power sector that may allow for safe nuclear power generation (as in no meltdowns, etc.) and, get this, it does so by consuming the 250,000+ tons of nuclear waste we already have in storage. Can't recall all the details but if you search for "Dr. Leslie Dewan", you'll find the details on it. There may be hope on that front.

As for nuclear disasters, or almost disasters in this case, hard for me not to forget TMI incident in 1979 as I grew up only a few miles away from it. I can still recall sitting with my family, at the ready with a single bag packed, waiting for the sirens to evacuate. It was years until I fully understood what happened and I'd be lying if I said it didn't sour my view of this particular power source.

 

[Damage Inc]

Still can´t believe how triggered some people get over this stuff. "You drive an electric car, darn treehuggin´ hippies!" Get over youself. You talk about sound and emotion in your daily car, yet I highly doubt that a 1.6l 4 cyl with a rusty muffler gets you all emotional. Or is there someone who drives a screaming V12 to work?
If you think burning dead dinosaurs is the pinnacle of motoring evolution, I`ve got some bad news for you.

To be fair the "hippies" get triggered on this subject too. The issue I believe is the way that many have the "it's GOING to happen, and if you don't like it...tough ****" attitude and that's pretty sucky. I mean what if world wide all loud music was banned, no more concerts, sound pollution hippies lambasting people who dared to play music over the allowed db? Some would be happy MANY would not. Forcing things on people is NOT the way to go about it.

Even if you live in Norway or Denmark, where they regularly achieve 100% renewable coverage, or if you have solar panels on your roof like 44% of EV owners do? I have news for you too: not 100% of the world's electricity comes from coal. As a matter of fact, the world's electricity production is getting cleaner by the day. Not to mention that a lot of coal has to be burned to make 'green' gasoline, too.

It saddens me deeply people are so out-spoken against such a great technology just because they are so much smarter than everyone else by being able to tell where electricity comes from. What's worse, nobody seems to know where gasoline comes from.

Thing is Norway and Denmark have SMALL populations, with the ever increasing human population not being properly addressed we're pissing in the wind with stuff like EVs. I mean last I heard lithium is a crucial battery component and is it a renewable resource or will it run out? doesn't matter if some scientist predicts we have enough lithium for a quadrillion batteries, when so many devices now need bateries and I'd guess 75% of batteries end up in landfill.

To save the planet we NEED less humans on it, end of story.

 

[Sim Strata]

in my opinion i dont care what happens in the future with road cars but electric racing, count me out. I enjoy driving it in sims and stuff but i cannot go watch an electric race, half the excitement is the engines roaring. If you disagree with this thats fine its an opinion, but once youve been to a race you might agree with me a bit more

I went to Blancpain at Brands and was suprised how quiet the cars are now. I remember seeng BPR at Brands in ‘96 and the Mclaren F1, Porsche GT1 and GT2 were ear splittingly loud. Although I really enjoyed Blanpain and the British GT at Silverstone, no denying, the theatre, drama and presence of the cars in was reduced.

 

[ltcars]

To be fair the "hippies" get triggered on this subject too. The issue I believe is the way that many have the "it's GOING to happen, and if you don't like it...tough ****" attitude and that's pretty sucky. I mean what if world wide all loud music was banned, no more concerts, sound pollution hippies lambasting people who dared to play music over the allowed db? Some would be happy MANY would not. Forcing things on people is NOT the way to go about it.



Thing is Norway and Denmark have SMALL populations, with the ever increasing human population not being properly addressed we're pissing in the wind with stuff like EVs. I mean last I heard lithium is a crucial battery component and is it a renewable resource or will it run out? doesn't matter if some scientist predicts we have enough lithium for a quadrillion batteries, when so many devices now need bateries and I'd guess 75% of batteries end up in landfill.

To save the planet we NEED less humans on it, end of story.

As with every source of energy you have to develop it to achieve better results. You can use the rare materials (They are not that rare) again if you recycle.
The Thanos method won't work, the times where only half of the population lived on this planet was not that long ago

 

[Snailer]

Thing is Norway and Denmark have SMALL populations, with the ever increasing human population not being properly addressed we're pissing in the wind with stuff like EVs. I mean last I heard lithium is a crucial battery component and is it a renewable resource or will it run out? doesn't matter if some scientist predicts we have enough lithium for a quadrillion batteries, when so many devices now need bateries and I'd guess 75% of batteries end up in landfill.

To save the planet we NEED less humans on it, end of story.

Luckily for us, Lithium is the 3rd most abundant element in the universe and can even be gathered from the ocean. Not to mention that Tesla can recycle about 70% of materials from their batteries. With this in mind, I reckon the odds of us running out are pretty low at most. And who's to say we won't find a new battery technology that doesn't use lithium in the future?

 

[Will Mazeo]

To save the planet we NEED less humans on it, end of story.

I wish everyone that believed this would jump off a bridge.

 

[Jan Larsen]

That way we would also get less humans...

Sorry.