RTX 4XXX Thread

[RasmusP]

I wasn't trying to turn this into a vent thread. I was just trying to understand the concerns about power costs for a video card.

Pulled the right strings apparently
Sorry...

My bigger concern is air quality of my small pc-room though. If I'll ever have the possibility, I'll put the pc into another little room with a window and route the cables through the wall. Linus showed something on his private room tour a few years ago.
Or if I'll own the house, I'll make a hole into the wall, isolate it well and route the pc exhaust out. Similar to kitchen exhausts

 

[pattikins]

Pulled the right strings apparently
Sorry...

No you're not. I removed the 'angry' emoji because I wasn't venting, it more that I was expressing my disdain for the price variation across the UK.

 

[RCHeliguy]

My bigger concern is air quality of my small pc-room though.

So in a perfect world your computer would be liquid cooled with a radiator outside the window, or better yet buried underground so you don't even see it

Do you have any other concerns for air quality other than heat?

You could move to Iceland, run everything off of geothermal energy, and cool just by opening the window since their highs during the warmest months are only about 14C.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Based on the Poll results so far it doesn't look like the 40 series is getting much love. I wonder what the results would have been for for the 30 series before launch?

This echo's what a few people have been saying.

 

[RasmusP]

So in a perfect world your computer would be liquid cooled with a radiator outside the window.

Do you have any other concerns for air quality other than heat?

Radiator outside would be pretty cool! Not sure about cooling efficiency if the sun would shine on it for a few hours per day though...

I like to see the computer though, that's no complain

Air quality here is very decent so no concerns. To be fair I don't really mind the "PC smelly smell" apart from the heat during summer.
It reminds of my childhood when playing games in the little office room at my parents' with a big tower being louder than a boxed Intel fan

But my partner always states that my room would smell err.. English word... "stale"? (muffig...).
Only when the pc was active for a few hours though, so it's definitely the PC haha.

I guess having an air conditioned room in the basement of your own house and property solves a lot of these little things...

 

[RCHeliguy]

I've never noticed the smell of my PC. I work from home and my office has me in it all day along with a computer that is on 24x7. That's been 12 years in this one house. The only odor I notice is when my color laser printer is running. It's both loud and puts off an odor.

I have hardwood flooring, so there is no carpet that could start to accumulate things. It's not a huge space, but I have it configured very comfortably for a person who spends a LOT of time in this room.

My mom painted the dusk silhouettes in my office. I have her paintings throughout my house, these just seemed to go together almost like a matched set.

 

[RasmusP]

Nice little office room with neat ergonomic details!

The "Stale PC air" is definitely a thing though, maybe you just like it and don't smell it. I don't really mind it either but every room that has a powerful PC running in it smells quite similar. PC pools at school, university, living rooms during LAN parties, office rooms when a longer rendering session is done etc.

Putting your nose close to a laptop fan when it did some heavier tasks gives a nice impression too. It's just warm electronics plus some dust.

Some people walk into such rooms and instantly say things like "Geez, open some windows!!" and others come in and get flashbacks of some "good old times"

 

[RCHeliguy]

There is no stale air in my house. There is a vent on the floor under my window and it blows air regularly. My high efficiency HVAC will run at variable speeds rather than just on and off. It helps keep the house dehumidified in the summer when the humidity outside is pretty high.

 

[RasmusP]

There is no stale air in my house. There is a vent on the floor under my window and it blows air regularly. My high efficiency HVAC will run at variable speeds rather than just on and off. It helps keep the house dehumidified in the summer when the humidity outside is pretty high.

Yeah that makes sense... We Germans like to suffer somehow, so air conditioning is extremely rare outside of big office building and shopping malls.
New buildings have some little slits at the top of the windows to maintain a basic level of oxygen if tenants won't open their windows regularly (too good isolation would make them almost air-tight). That's about the maximum we'll see here, lol.
24°C is considered "quite cool" during summer. My last apartment saw some 31°C in the living room last year.

Whenever ambient temps rise above 25°C with some sunshine, 90% of the radio stations will talk about sweating and suffering and how they love their cars with air conditioning. Or hate their old cars without AC...

 

[RCHeliguy]

That sounds like a big difference.

I keep my house about 75F or 24C degrees during the day year round on the main level I work on. However it gets "cold" in the basement where my rig is, which is perfect During the winter the heat rises and during the summer the cool air settles down there. On the top floor we like to sleep at below 67F or 19.5C year round. I think the bedroom actually gets down below 65F most nights, but we let the main level get warmer at night so the top level cools harder.

Then again it gets very hot here. We've had heat indexes of 107F or 41.5C. recently with very high humidity where I live.

I've heard stories of how BMW didn't want to put powerful enough for us air conditioners in their cars a number of decades ago and had a BMW delegation from Germany visit Texas car dealers during the summer. The people in the US provided a 7 series BMW with the windows locked closed and with only their meager AC to cool the car.

"According to the story", that convinced them to put more powerful AC units in their cars. Could be an urban legend for all I know.

 

[Neilski]

expressing my disdain for the price variation across the UK

Well, the joke's on me: I rechecked and I'm currently also paying 28 p/kWh (28.45 to be precise)

liquid cooled with a radiator outside the window

Oooh, intriguing idea...

I've never noticed the smell of my PC.

Well I've experienced the same issue as Rasmus, but it's always my wife walking in and complaining about the smell, not me noticing it myself (When you've spent hours sitting in the air in question, the smell/warmth/staleness isn't noticeable I guess.)

The people in the US provided a 7 series BMW with the windows locked closed and with only their meager AC to cool the car.

LOL - I hope that story is genuine!

Returning to the topic: I dearly hope for a sensible 4 series card I will want to buy. Based on the leaks, it's certainly not going to be anything from 4070 upwards though. And 4060/4050 will emerge... later, probably much later. My last major PC upgrade was way back in 2016 (with a bit more in 2017), so I can be a little more patient.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Wouldn't it be great if there was a glut of 40 series chips!!!!

 

[RevSome]

$959 Amazon (US) today

MSI Gaming GeForce RTX 3080 Ti 12GB GDRR6X 320-Bit HDMI/DP Nvlink Torx Fan 3 Ampere Architecture OC Graphics Card (RTX 3080 Ti Gaming X Trio 12G)

First time have seen this below $1k.. have a 2070 Super meow, is it time to jump?

 

[Wolfzz]

Alleged Nvidia RTX 4090 benchmark suggests it's an absolute monster​

Alleged Nvidia RTX 4090 benchmark suggests it's an absolute monster

The latest performance rumor for Nvidia's upcoming Ada Lovelace RTX 40-series GPUs suggests that the RTX 4090 is able to score nearly double that of the 3090 in 3DMark Time Spy test.

www.neowin.net

With a Monster Price and with a Monster Power Supply Needed

 

[Rebel_488]

I dunno pal it’s a really hard call. With 40s being so close personally I’m waiting…30s should only get cheaper going forward l, I wouldn’t buy into the “paid you tube buy now hype”
Is the ti worth it over the 3080 12 gig, (edit) hardware unboxed seemed to think it wasn’t?

 

[stigs2cousin]

Is the ti worth it over the 3080 12 gig, (edit) hardware unboxed seemed to think it wasn’t?

It surely wasn´t when it was several hundred dollars more than the 3080.
(It was like 500 dollars for 7% more performance, the numbers are not researched but remembered)

If today its 100 dollars more one could think about if one would feel the performance upgrade.


MFG Carsten

 

[Rebel_488]

Price diff here is still around the £200 mark. Oddly the 3080 10g is the same-ish price as the 12g, madness when I was checking prices there. I don’t think an ASUs ti for £1070 is a bargain no matter what the performance. My entire build with a 2070 super was £1200 for comparison (just before covid) the market is calmer yes but still not sane. I’d say a 4090 is a much better buy at £1500 that a 3080ti at £1070 given the leaks out today (power consumption not taken into consideration) based on performance

 

[demetri]

$959 Amazon (US) today

MSI Gaming GeForce RTX 3080 Ti 12GB GDRR6X 320-Bit HDMI/DP Nvlink Torx Fan 3 Ampere Architecture OC Graphics Card (RTX 3080 Ti Gaming X Trio 12G)

First time have seen this below $1k.. have a 2070 Super meow, is it time to jump?

No. I have 2080 and I'm waiting for either 3080 12GB to hit $500 new or 4xxx launch. Whatever comes first. I don't buy into that whole FOMO narrative that certain youtube characters are promoting for some reason. Hey, maybe nvidia took their families hostage?

Apparently, nVidia grossly overestimated GPU demand (because who knew crypto would go down the drain) and is now stuck with the order it made at TSMC and cannot get out of it, so they are gonna have way more cards than they can sell quickly and it's not gonna be fall 2020 all over again. And when Ada Lovelace launches in a few months the price of Ampere cards will go down even more

 

[R8pilot]

As a general rule, the smaller the fab node ("5nm", etc.), the higher the parasitic power consumption from tunneling compounded with ever-growing transistor counts. I wouldn't necessarily count on newer cards having lower idle power consumption.

Also: I'd have a hard time believing that Nvidia is stuck making more 30-generation chips than they want. Fabs like TSMC, etc., don't care what chips they make. They only care about numbers of wafers per month on a given node. Nvidia, et. al., can make whatever designs they want on them. So the worst that happens is that a subset of designs remain on the older node, like they still make new 20xx cards (though that was likely just to sell a lower-cost tier of products in the face of a shortage).

But in addition, I'm sure Nvidia is a customer with enough brains and clout to have written considerable flexibility into contracts, and to go back and gain additional flexibility if pinched. Likely, their far, far bigger worry is not getting enough wafers for their 40xx cards fast enough to avoid another year of shortages.

 

[demetri]

As a general rule, the smaller the fab node ("5nm", etc.), the higher the parasitic power consumption from tunneling compounded with ever-growing transistor counts. I wouldn't necessarily count on newer cards having lower idle power consumption.

Also: I'd have a hard time believing that Nvidia is stuck making more 30-generation chips than they want. Fabs like TSMC, etc., don't care what chips they make. They only care about numbers of wafers per month on a given node. Nvidia, et. al., can make whatever designs they want on them. So the worst that happens is that a subset of designs remain on the older node, like they still make new 20xx cards (though that was likely just to sell a lower-cost tier of products in the face of a shortage).

But in addition, I'm sure Nvidia is a customer with enough brains and clout to have written considerable flexibility into contracts, and to go back and gain additional flexibility if pinched. Likely, their far, far bigger worry is not getting enough wafers for their 40xx cards fast enough to avoid another year of shortages.

I don't think you get it. The shortages for a year and a half were caused by the fact that cards were being bought in droves by miners, and probably more than the half of new GPUs went straight into mining rigs. nVidia, its AIB partners, and retailers didn't care that you and I couldn't get an Ampere card for MSRP, because they were making lots of money and I don't blame them, they are corporations who are in the business of making more money. It was a good time for them. But that ship has sailed and hopefully we won't see another mining craze for a while, especially with the new cards not improving much in terms of performance per watt.

And now is the time of reckoning. There're credible rumors that nVidia and partners realized that after the mining crash 30xx GPUs were not selling as they had been before and there's a high probability that the current stock at warehouses won't get moved soon enough. So, nVidia reportedly asked TSMC to delay their order for 40xx chips (and that order is rumored to be quite big because they overestimated the demand on the GPU market now that mining is no more), but TSMC only agreed to push it by one quarter max and unless nVidia can find another customer for 5nm chips (who would that be?) they can't bail out of it and neither can they decrease the contracted amount of the chips. And don't forget that AMD are also launching a new generation of GPUs which will definitely have better performance than 30xx, so nVidia can't postpone their 40xx launch too much, unless they want to lose performance king crown and some market share to AMD.

They are now stuck between the rock and the hard place. It's not the sellers market anymore, so if they want sales they will have to do more concessions than selling almost two year old GPUs at basically MSRP. Bundling them with two games and two DLCs and calling that 4 games (shame on you nVidia!) ain't cutting it. It's not like a GPU is an asset that only will get appreciated in time, and we the customers can wait. We've waited for two years, so what's another six months?