RTX 4XXX Thread

[RCHeliguy]

Fortunately I have cheap power, my rig is in the basement air conditioned and the only time my gaming computer is on is when I'm gaming.

So it's no big deal for me.

 

[Emery]

I haven't been playing enough lately to justify upgrading my 3090ftw and Pepper has been eating the cashflow.

 

[R8pilot]

I will get a 4080 or better, depending on the value proposition.

My sim rig has a 2080ti in it. I did buy a 3080 quite recently, after price and availability came back to earth, but put it in my linux box for the moment (its old 1070 was dying).

My goal for the sim rig is to simultaneously upgrade the monitor and graphics card. I'll upgrade the monitor from a 55" OLED running 60 Hz to a new one running at 120 Hz+, and the graphics card to something capable of 4k 120Hz. I really feel like 60 Hz doesn't cut it for driving sims (all those sweeping curves turning choppy) and that 120 Hz should be a minimum. But I also can't give up 4k at that 55" scale, and it's OLED over LCD all the way for me.

The sim rig has a 9900k. It and the 2080ti runs 40k / 60Hz with only a few compromises. My linux box uses a 10900k, which I could swap in if needed. But I wonder if a bigger CPU upgrade might be necessary to reach a reasonably solid 4k / 120 Hz (not sure when the bottleneck will become the CPU). I guess I'll see.

The performance and power rumors are running wild, but I do expect that something like a 4090 or ti would be required to reach 4k/120Hz. The board manufacturers might claim very high power limits to play into the hands of 'leet overclockers (why is that still a thing?), but I'd expect that stock consumption won't be much higher than the current cards. Why? Because cards that demand a 1500W supply will drastically limit market potential. And yes, my room already heats up too much during driving sessions.

 

[demetri]

Jay is way off base with this one.
GPUs will continue to drop because of the massive influx coupled with AMD's suspected launch.

I wonder how much Jay got paid to shill that so bad. It's his second or third video lately where he's urging people not to wait and grab 3xxx now. All that while there're lots of credible rumors about huge stock of new Ampere cards that AIBs are desperate to get rid of before 4000-series launch and another big pile of ex-mining used cards mostly from Asia that are yet to hit the market in the West that will drive prices down

 

[RCHeliguy]

I'll be in a holding pattern for the 40 series release no matter what happens with the 30 series cards.

HOWEVER..... If Steam releases specs for the Index 2 that show they have offloaded a pile of the graphics processing to the internal cpu's that would allow lessor cards to drive it well, that creates more viable options. I'm still putting odds on needing a pretty beefy card to drive it.

 

[blekenbleu]

I'll be in a holding pattern for the 40 series release no matter what happens with the 30 series cards.

Nvidia cuts prices of GeForce RTX 30-series boards by $100 – $500.
(3080 Ti - 3090 Ti)

 

[Terry Rock]

Nvidia cuts prices of GeForce RTX 30-series boards by $100 – $500.
(3080 Ti - 3090 Ti)

I'm afraid they still have a ways to go in the name of price reductions.
Selling GPUs which at this point, are almost two years old...(at prices this close to the originally-quoted MSRP) is a last ditch effort to grab as much money as they can before the bottom drops out.
All of those cards will be subject to massive devaluation once the vast majority of the mining cards hit places like eBay and Marketplace.
It is estimated that only about 15% of all cards bought for mining are in play on the used market.
The vast majority are still to come.

 

[Cooknn]

I’ve got a 2080Ti too. I’ve spent way too much time messing with settings in ACC trying to get the most out of my HP Reverb G2. I cannot wait for the 4090. Sounds like it might hit the streets in October. I’ll need to build a new PC just to support that beast. It’s gonna be good. See attached.

 

[Rebel_488]

So in reality about £4-5k to play acc in vr? I miss ps4, at least I didn’t have to edit jsons or moan about fps, troll forum posts from years ago searching endlessly for a fix that doesn’t exist, simpler times.

 

[Benzaah]

Interesting discussion about current hardware limitations and what the next gen promises. Sounds like you guys have spent way more $$$ on hardware than I can imagine. I built my PC nearly 3 years ago with a B550/Ryzen 3600xt/16gb Ram and 2nd hand 2060 super which is struggling now ive just upgraded to 1440 triples.

I need to upgrade but I want to see if i can get away with just a new GPU and this next get looks promising. I hope the next gen 4070 will give us 3080 power using less watts but also eager to see what AMD come up with.

Some upgrade questions for you guys.

Is an Nvidia card a must have if i'm just Sim racing and not playing games with Ray tracing?

Do I really need more than a 6 core CPU to run a rig for gaming only? Should I be considering an upgrade to my CPU as well?

Lots of folks say 16 gb is no longer enough ram. Should I upgrade to 4 x 8gb or 2 x 16gb?

The goal is to run my 1440 triples at there 165hz refresh rate playing Iracing and AMS2.
Any advice to achieve this is appreciated.

 

[stigs2cousin]

I can´t answer all your questions specificly as my "SimRacing only" PC only runs AC with CM and CSP.

A 3080 ROG STRIX can run 1080p triples around 140 FPS with high graphics settings. ( no DLSS)

After around 110-120 FPS I can´t see any difference anymore.

Upgrading from R5 3600x to 5600x only improved FPS with more than 15 AI, no difference online.
"The Internet concurrs" that SimRacing titles need high clockspeeds, not more cores as the game engines are quite old and don´t do well with multithreading.

From what I saw I never used more than 10GB of ram, so no benefit in buying more.

Whether faster ram gets you more performance I can`t say.

MFG Carsten

 

[RasmusP]

Is an Nvidia card a must have if i'm just Sim racing and not playing games with Ray tracing?

No, definitely not.
ACC can use dlss though, which I really really like!
The games don't benefit at all though...
The only other thing with nvidia: you get the nvenc encoding/decoding part on the gpu, which let's you stream or record videos without any fps loss at all and no cpu performance taken away from the game.
You just need a few watts of power headroom. If you're not in the power limit with the gpu, you won't even lose 1 fps. If yes, then maybe 3% fps.

Do I really need more than a 6 core CPU to run a rig for gaming only? Should I be considering an upgrade to my CPU as well?

No, also absolutely not. You need the highest "3 core speed" you can find.
I'm saying 3 core speed because some CPUs boost 1 core super high but drop speed when you use 2-3 cores.
But single core performance is the important part here!
Cache size can help a lot too.

That's why you see higher fps with a 5900x vs 5600x. But if you could get a 5600x with the same boost speeds and the same cache size of the 5900x, you would see identical fps.
And the 5800x3D shows what even more cache can do for ACC and games in general.
So ryzen 7600x should be a nice upgrade. Am5 platform should be good for 2-4 cpu generations and hopefully ddr5 will drop in price...

If the next gen will be way too expensive, slap a 5800x3D into your existing mobo and it should be a massive upgrade! Watch hardware unboxed video about the 3600x vs 5800x3D!

Lots of folks say 16 gb is no longer enough ram. Should I upgrade to 4 x 8gb or 2 x 16gb?

I wonder what these lots of folks are seeing. I've never seen my 16gb getting anywhere close to being fully used by games.
These people know that you shouldn't run 3 games at the same time?

Editing 4k videos though, that's another topic... But we're talking about gaming.

One thing though:
Dual rank ram can give a nice boost. 8gb sticks are mostly single rank, 16gb sticks are dual rank.
So 2x 16gb will give you dual channel dual rank.

4x8gb will give you dual channel double single rank, which also results in "dual rank".

So it doesn't matter... More sticks can be more difficult to tune and run stable so I'd always go for 2 sticks.

Only reason to go with 4 sticks is when they are cheaper or when you want to upgrade your existing 2x 8gb to dual rank and 32gb.

 

[Benzaah]

I can´t answer all your questions specifically

MFG Carsten

Your reply is still much appreciated. Ill cross the CPU and Ram upgrade off my immediate wishlist.

No, also absolutely not. You need the highest "3 core speed" you can find.
I'm saying 3 core speed because some CPUs boost 1 core super high but drop speed when you use 2-3 cores.
But single core performance is the important part here!
Cache size can help a lot too.

Thanks for the in depth reply.

All I do is play sim racing games and watch youtube. no streaming, video editing nothing. By what your saying an Nvidia GPU is not the be all end all and Ill consider the latest AMD cards.

My CPU sounds ok as it clocks 4.65 on 4 of 6 cores as my 3600XT chip is really well binned. I dont like the idea of getting 4 sticks of ram working so will keep my current ram as its 16gb CL16 3600.

Sounds like a monster GPU will be enough to run my triples and start saving for a DD.

Regards Benzaah

 

[RasmusP]

Your reply is still much appreciated. Ill cross the CPU and Ram upgrade off my immediate wishlist.

Thanks for the in depth reply.

All I do is play sim racing games and watch youtube. no streaming, video editing nothing. By what your saying an Nvidia GPU is not the be all end all and Ill consider the latest AMD cards.

My CPU sounds ok as it clocks 4.65 on 4 of 6 cores as my 3600XT chip is really well binned. I dont like the idea of getting 4 sticks of ram working so will keep my current ram as its 16gb CL16 3600.

Sounds like a monster GPU will be enough to run my triples and start saving for a DD.

Regards Benzaah

Good plan!
btw if you want to see what your CPU is able to run, reduce the resolution to the minimum but keep the graphics settings as they are.
Resolution scales down the GPU load (and the memory+PCI-E Bus load afaik) but not really the CPU load.
Lowering settings however does!

That's why CPU benchmarks are often done in 720p with ultra settings and the beefiest graphics card available.

Your 3600XT sounds great, however the 5600x and especially the 5800X3D will blow it out of the water.
Clockspeed only matters within one generation (or rather within the same architecture, looking at Intel 7th-10th gen...).
A lower clocked next gen CPU will usually be way faster than a higher clocked previous gen.

Buying a 5600x probably won't be worth it for you though. If you find yourself needing a CPU upgrade after getting a new GPU, you'll need to check 5800X3D vs 7600x (and maybe 5600X3D) and then consider the prices of the single CPU vs CPU+Mobo+DDR5.

I wish you a fun shopping time later this year

 

[RasmusP]

To post something on topic:
I love my very cool and silent TUF 3080! But the idle/low usage power consumption is annoying...
I had a 3070 for a few months before I got the mail of my 3080 order getting sent out of the blue.
The power consumption while doing office stuff, watching a video or recording a zoom meeting with OBS doubled!
With the energy costs in Germany, that's definitely worth considering although my estimation is "only" 40€ per year difference.

The more annoying factor is that leaving my PC on while being away for some hours now leads to not so great air quality in the rather small room.

So I'm considering buying a 40xx GPU if I can get away +/- 0€ for similar performance with lower power consumption, especially at "idle".

The 3070 is running at a good friend's PC and I honestly thought about switching them and having him pay the difference. He said he'd be happy to do that but wouldn't care either way.
Problem is that I like to have the best one within our clique and the performance headroom is quite handy in some games... Thanks to undervolting, the power consumption while actually gaming is identical and only goes higher when the performance headroom is actually used compared to the 3070.

A bit of waffling.. Let's see how the 4060ti will perform and what the used market + buy new situation will be.

Some numbers:
With some chrome tabs open, listening to music on spotify but not watching a video or anything, the average power consumptions, recording while writing this post according to hwinfo64:
10600k = 11W average
RTX 3080 = 30W average

The power consumption got better with newer vbios versions and driver updates though. It used to be 50-60W!

 

[RCHeliguy]

I got curious and had to see what you meant by expensive. You were not kidding.

It looks like Germany is tracking at about 300% of the average US electricity rates. I'm fortunate to be in an area that is a bit blow the national average at 10.6 cents per kWh.

It looks like Hawaii is pretty close to the rates you have.

 

[RasmusP]

I got curious and had to see what you meant by expensive. You were not kidding.

It looks like Germany is tracking at about 300% of the average US electricity rates. I'm fortunate to be in an area that is a bit blow the national average at 10.6 cents per kWh.

View attachment 583343

It looks like Hawaii is pretty close to the rates you have.

View attachment 583344

Yep...
I'm currently quite "lucky" with my contract as I'm paying 30.4 c/kWh + 8€ per month.
I'm not changing to the best offer out of principle as energy wasn't always in private hands. My knowledge isn't much about all this but basically most people always complained about that our government decided to make energy a thing of competition.

In Hamburg, there is a company that's 100% owned by "The city of Hamburg".
Their pricing isn't the best, but it's fair and "100% renewable energy".
It's a thing of principle that I choose them as my provider.

If you were to be a new customer right now and not get one of the beneficial packages or anything, their price would be 48 c/kWh!

They are a good indicator since they always provide "fair prices according to the national situation" or whatever you'd like to call it.

Good luck enjoying a 4080ti with about 50 cents per kWh...

 

[Neilski]

If you were to be a new customer right now and not get one of the beneficial packages or anything, their price would be 48 c/kWh!

Ouch!
UK pricing is very high right now as well - I think I'm paying around 24 p/kWh (not so much different to you Rasmus). However, it has massively increased in the last year (and about to go higher still, due to the periodic price-cap review), so the German pricing would appear to have been much higher than the UK for the previous several years.

@RCHeliguy I had no idea that the variation across the US was quite so extreme, nor that the average price was as low as it is...

 

[pattikins]

Ouch!
UK pricing is very high right now as well - I think I'm paying around 24 p/kWh (not so much different to you Rasmus). However, it has massively increased in the last year (and about to go higher still, due to the periodic price-cap review), so the German pricing would appear to have been much higher than the UK for the previous several years.

@RCHeliguy I had no idea that the variation across the US was quite so extreme, nor that the average price was as low as it is...

Mine is 28p/kWh. Plus, there is the small matter of the 'standing charge' - £166pa.

 

[RCHeliguy]

I wasn't trying to turn this into a vent thread. I was just trying to understand the concerns about power costs for a video card.