rFactor 2 | Dev-Talk: User Experience

Paul Jeffrey

Premium
Studio 397 and more specifically Christopher Elliot and Rene Butler, have released a very interesting new video where they discuss the user experience and new UI functionality within rFactor 2.

Making the most of the current stay at home orders in place pretty much throughout the world, Studio 397 colleagues Christopher Elliot and Rene Butler have used the opportunity to put together a short Q&A style video around the user experience within rFactor 2 - including some interesting insight into the future development direction of current big project underway within the studio.


The HTML based new UI for rFactor 2 has taken on something of a mythical status in sim racing circles. At first, a delayed launch and much hyping led the community into something of a lather about how this seemingly boring aspect of the sim might change the player experience. Since launch, the first pass at the new UI has been met with a mixed reception from the community - but it seems like Studio 397 remain as committed as ever to developing, enhancing and improving the feature to better support ongoing developments within rFactor 2 in the years ahead.

The video is an interesting idea from the team at 397, and well worth 20 minutes of your time to sit down and watch when you get a spare minute...



rFactor 2 is available now exclusively for PC.

Want to learn some of the tricks and tips for getting rF2 to perform how you want it to? No worries, start up a thread in the rF2 sub forum here at RaceDepartment and ask our community!


rF2 UI Talk.jpg
 
Never played RF2.It was on my Steam wishlist but I removed it simply because of the slow progress,muddled content & complex technical issues & workarounds that people mention all the time.Sim racers today expect a plug in & play experience.Who wants to go in & change files just to get a sim to run properly?

A shame because the LMP3 cars they are running on the RACE series on Youtube look great to drive & for a change the tv coverage also looks great.
So you haven't played the game and judge it's usability based on what ... ? That you need to adjust stuff in files to get the sim going is one of the biggst myths in this community and you also don't need to use tons of workarounds, atleast not more than in other sims and I would even go that far to say that you can get everything sorted from within the game wich isn't the case in some other products. Next to the fact that installing and managing mods with the workshop is a piece of cake and actually alot easier compared to games like AC, wich so often get's praise for it's usability. Best advice is to get it with the next sale, get a good mod like the Eunduracers mod from the workshop and form your own opinion and refund it if you don't like it. In fact there has never been a sim for me that was easier to plug'n'play compared to rFactor 2 and to get everything running as I like it. Ofcourse there can happen issues due to different hardware and software configs, but that's the same for any sim or game.
 
Never played RF2.It was on my Steam wishlist but I removed it simply because of the slow progress,muddled content & complex technical issues & workarounds that people mention all the time.Sim racers today expect a plug in & play experience.Who wants to go in & change files just to get a sim to run properly?

A shame because the LMP3 cars they are running on the RACE series on Youtube look great to drive & for a change the tv coverage also looks great.
Right decision for now. rF2 is brilliant, when it works, unfortunately it doesn't for the majority of time and development has a strange perception of goals right now. Sim racing is enough dialing s**t in and restarting, dialing sh** in, restarting, waiting, noticing strange things mid-session and so on, so today, there are better working alternatives in usability and even technology for even a lower pricepoint and more (polished) content.

But if you don't mind to fiddle with convoluted overlays, much preparation for a good session, hickups, missing features and having a beefy PC to run it appropiately (with meh payoff in optical finesse), it will give you an astonishing driving experience and one of the best FFBs today (When the content isn't broken, like many things, even official ones are).
 
I think bitterness is leading to some misinformation here.

For the most common wheels and setups (like single screen), rF2 should run out of the box just fine, just like any other sim, and should feel best-in-class when actually driving.

If you have an uncommon wheel like me, an AccuForce, yeah I had to edit the Controller JSON to invert the FFB. Think I had to do some triple screen stuff, too, but also their triple screen widget is the best config tool in any sim I've ever seen - it's visual not just all numbers.

But for most it should be fine.

I actually documented my Getting Started process on my blog way back and it was just inverted ffb and field of view.
 
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If it's not working for you then you have problems on your end, instead of trolling try expanding on the issues you are having so people may help you with them :)
Okay here we go, time for some Venting-Steam-Rantdepartment.

At first, i have to say rF2 used to run fine on my system and some issues just took months to be fixed, or are still not fixed yet and not all these problems are persistent on my end (yeah because i actually took time to fix problems on my end, instead of S397 doing their job of fixing things):

Why are mirrors in OFFICIAL CONTENT adjusted wrong out of the box? Some are blurry, some in the wrong position. Easy to fix with our synthetic Mee-Rooor combination friend and....editing text files, but this isn't necessary, eh?

Why had an Aston GTE cockpit a "GT3" badge on the Dashboard, what needed MONTHS to be fixed.

Why is the tarmac purple on Le Mans after updated shaders (for everyone, so must be on the users end, yeah) and took weeks to months to be fixed.

My rF2 doesn't start with the old UI after the last build update. NO other sim is doing this kind of stuff. Opting into the public beta branch fixes it for now, at least the new UI is usable now, but still horrible clunky.

Why is it stuttering online for many, for example? Why does it start so unbelieveably slow? Why is the graphics device switching to "Auto" on its own sometimes?

Why is the performance and loading time so poor on large tracks regarding the look, that comes from 2014? "Experimenting with screen space reflections"...that it concerning.
Nordschleife, Sebring and Le Mans are looking pretty nice, but not that nice, to justify it.

Why are cars (Tatuus for example) way to twitchy on the brakes, without adjusting setup values. Even racing drivers were stating, that this behaves weird.

Why do GTE cars have such low engine inertia?

Why was the Oreca 07 strange in downforce utilization and laptimes.

Why are temperatures not dependent on ambience values.

Why can i reduce tyre pressure to the minimum, gain grip and don't overstress my tyres with it, it's basically the most famous exploit of the game.

Why you have to edit out the "heat-glare ring" by yourself in the user file? But this isn't necessary, eh?

Why are some users still lose FFB between session (The necessary FFB-Reset mapping still needed) and also don't have working Auto-DOR with wheels, able to usually set Auto-DOR.

Why is often opening the showroom leading to a game crash?

Why is this workshop rfcmp dependent system spamming my drive with so much unnecessary space for one mod.

Why is the AI such a hit and miss and tend to get more and more worse? (I just say Mercedes AMG-GT3 and st...st...stu....stutter throttle)

I could continue...but it's probably all on the users end. I'm just trolling and this is all misinformation.
If you really think, this runs fine out of the box for any user with a running system, YOU are misinforming out of rose tinted glasses, sry. :O_o:
 
Thanks for the list, having recognised your name from the Official AMS2 forums I know you're a nice chap, so let's go through them together:

Okay here we go, time for some Venting-Steam-Rantdepartment.

At first, i have to say rF2 used to run fine on my system and some issues just took months to be fixed, or are still not fixed yet and not all these problems are persistent on my end (yeah because i actually took time to fix problems on my end, instead of S397 doing their job of fixing things):

It's not S397s job to fix things on your end, by all means do a fresh re-install or Verify Files to perhaps help matters. As any RF2 installation can become flooded with 3rd party content & changes to various files over the years, then a a fresh reinstall once in a while is good way to "clean up the crap"

Why are mirrors in OFFICIAL CONTENT adjusted wrong out of the box? Some are blurry, some in the wrong position. Easy to fix with our synthetic Mee-Rooor combination friend and....editing text files, but this isn't necessary, eh?

Firstly it's not hard to adjust the mirrors, this has to be done in Other Sims from time to time. Granted it's not ideal and needs a bit of work, but it's far from a game breaking "not working" issue and no you shouldn't need to edit any files for the mirrors to work in official content so that point is redundant. As for the blurry mirrors they're usually found on 3rd party content, if you're taking about Official Content then which content exactly please?

Why had an Aston GTE cockpit a "GT3" badge on the Dashboard, what needed MONTHS to be fixed.

A non-game breaking extremely minor issue that was dealt with, why did it take so long? who bloody cares - it was fixed!

Why is the tarmac purple on Le Mans after updated shaders (for everyone, so must be on the users end, yeah) and took weeks to months to be fixed.

It was'nt purple for everyone, this is misinformation, it affected a select few users and again AFAIK was fixed.

My rF2 doesn't start with the old UI after the last build update. NO other sim is doing this kind of stuff. Opting into the public beta branch fixes it for now, at least the new UI is usable now, but still horrible clunky.

Not aware of that Bug, have you reported it?

Why is it stuttering online for many, for example? Why does it start so unbelieveably slow? Why is the graphics device switching to "Auto" on its own sometimes?

- Stuttering online is still an ongoing investigation, it doesn't happen to everyone so it makes it much much harder to track down, perhaps they should've found a cause by now but for whatever reason they haven't.
- Start times are reflected by lots of Content, if you own tons of Content ask yourself "why?", remove the cars & tracks you never drive on for starters as it's pointless having them. Also a known issue is loose RCD files causing long load times, find (easy enough) and delete them.
- Graphics Device to "Auto", if you mean in the Settings Tab that only affects Laptop owners whereby it sometimes kicks the built-in GPU and not the dedicated GPU, for Desktop owners it should'nt be an issue (I seem to recal this was acknowledged by S397 at one point)

Why is the performance and loading time so poor on large tracks regarding the look, that comes from 2014? "Experimenting with screen space reflections"...that it concerning.
Nordschleife, Sebring and Le Mans are looking pretty nice, but not that nice, to justify it.

Track Loading times have been improved significantly (there was an update to this last year), sure they still take a while (especially with more AI drivers) but it is was it is, could they be shorter? Yes, it would be nice but for now they're OK and ceratinly much faster than they once were.

Why are cars (Tatuus for example) way to twitchy on the brakes, without adjusting setup values. Even racing drivers were stating, that this behaves weird.

What Racing Drivers were stating this? As you'd know all cars go through Testing and regardless of the Sim in use cars are released with little quirks to the various physics department, therefore every Sim releases updates for their Cars at somepoint and if there's something significantly wrong with the Tatuus cars then they'd be no different. But please state which Drivers & link to their quotes of possible please.

Why do GTE cars have such low engine inertia?

No idea on that one, S397 get their Data direct from the Licensee so you may need to ask them.

Why was the Oreca 07 strange in downforce utilization and laptimes.

No idea on that one, , S397 get their Data direct from the Licensee so you may need to ask them.

Why are temperatures not dependent on ambience values.

Not coded into the Engine, never was by ISI in the first place.

Why can i reduce tyre pressure to the minimum, gain grip and don't overstress my tyres with it, it's basically the most famous exploit of the game.

I've yet to see an official explanation for this, I have seen reports of it but not to the extent it's a massively known issue.

Why you have to edit out the "heat-glare ring" by yourself in the user file? But this isn't necessary, eh?

That's an old bug that appears to resurface every now & then, bugs in software happen and sometimes they're a right bitch to kill off - this is one of those!

Why are some users still lose FFB between session (The necessary FFB-Reset mapping still needed) and also don't have working Auto-DOR with wheels, able to usually set Auto-DOR.

No idea, happens to me in RF2, RaceRoom and ACC so it may be Driver related.

Why is often opening the showroom leading to a game crash?

Official or 3rd party content?

Why is this workshop rfcmp dependent system spamming my drive with so much unnecessary space for one mod.

Agreed, it's a pain.

Why is the AI such a hit and miss and tend to get more and more worse? (I just say Mercedes AMG-GT3 and st...st...stu....stutter throttle)

My area of "fix it now!" and yes S397 have for the most part largely ignored AI, they are on the verge of fixing some issues though - trust me on that one!

I could continue...but it's probably all on the users end. I'm just trolling and this is all misinformation.
If you really think, this runs fine out of the box for any user with a running system, YOU are misinforming out of rose tinted glasses, sry. :O_o:

Yes a lot is on the users end, a lot of it isn't, but the game works and from your list there's nothing to suggest the average Joe couldn't load it up and have a drive easily enough. Usually issues develop because users have messed with JSON settings, installed broken 3rd party content or they're just not aware of how things work in the first place. Fact is RF2 works out the box, it has done for many years and does to this day.

As for the "rose tinted glasses" then I'll just say this; Having been a Private Tester for RF2 I have shared my fair share of issues & bugs with the game directly with the Devs, I'm only too aware of the ongoing issues with the Sim and am not blindsided in anyway shape or form - I know they exist - but when people say the game doesn't "work" then I'm sorry but I cannot agree with that whatsoever, that is misinformation :)

Happy Racing, see you on track :)
 
Firstly it's not hard to adjust the mirrors, this has to be done in Other Sims from time to time. Granted it's not ideal and needs a bit of work, but it's far from a game breaking "not working" issue and no you shouldn't need to edit any files for the mirrors to work in official content so that point is redundant. As for the blurry mirrors they're usually found on 3rd party content, if you're taking about Official Content then which content exactly please?
Oreca 07 for example. I'm not talking about mods at all in my list.
A non-game breaking extremely minor issue that was dealt with, why did it take so long? who bloody cares - it was fixed!
I bloody care. Because this are MINOR things.
It was'nt purple for everyone, this is misinformation, it affected a select few users and again AFAIK was fixed.
It was affecting many users, not just a "few".
Not aware of that Bug, have you reported it?
YES, but they don't check their forums very often.
- Stuttering online is still an ongoing investigation, it doesn't happen to everyone so it makes it much much harder to track down, perhaps they should've found a cause by now but for whatever reason they haven't.
- Start times are reflected by lots of Content, if you own tons of Content ask yourself "why?", remove the cars & tracks you never drive on for starters as it's pointless having them. Also a known issue is loose RCD files causing long load times, find (easy enough) and delete them.
- Graphics Device to "Auto", if you mean in the Settings Tab that only affects Laptop owners whereby it sometimes kicks the built-in GPU and not the dedicated GPU, for Desktop owners it should'nt be an issue (I seem to recal this was acknowledged by S397 at one point)
I'm not using many mods at all.
Track Loading times have been improved significantly (there was an update to this last year), sure they still take a while (especially with more AI drivers) but it is was it is, could they be shorter? Yes, it would be nice but for now they're OK and ceratinly much faster than they once were.
Improved and still abysmal.
What Racing Drivers were stating this? As you'd know all cars go through Testing and regardless of the Sim in use cars are released with little quirks to the various physics department, therefore every Sim releases updates for their Cars at somepoint and if there's something significantly wrong with the Tatuus cars then they'd be no different. But please state which Drivers & link to their quotes of possible please.
It was a Silverstone All-Star Event by "The Race" in the Tatuus car. I don't know which time stamp. Not totally sure, but i think it was Montoya...this guy is sim racing for quite some time.
No idea on that one, S397 get their Data direct from the Licensee so you may need to ask them
I and others did...very often. They don't answer.
No idea on that one, , S397 get their Data direct from the Licensee so you may need to ask them.
I and others did...very often. They don't answer, only thing i remember, is a dev answering in Discord (i don't use Discord), they will occasionally look into it.
Not coded into the Engine, never was by ISI in the first place.
That's no reason to not have it in the game. High ambience temps are influencing car temps in other ISImotor sims...
I've yet to see an official explanation for this, I have seen reports of it but not to the extent it's a massively known issue.
Because exploits aren't shared hardly on the official side?? If you want to know more, look in the Porsche GT3 Cup thread in the rF2 forums. I've recorded telemetry and times and underinflated tyres are gaining pace, without losing the car.
That's an old bug that appears to resurface every now & then, bugs in software happen and sometimes they're a right bitch to kill off - this is one of those!
It's easy to fix: Deactivate it by default for now out of the box, because it doesn't work properly. It's totally possible for the user, so it's even easier for the actual dev team!
No idea, happens to me in RF2, RaceRoom and ACC so it may be Driver related.
It does not happen to me, but for OSW/Simucube 2 users for example, some Fanatec users also report loss of Auto-DOR adjustment.
Official or 3rd party content?
Official.
Agreed, it's a pain.
Yes.
My area of "fix it now!" and yes S397 have for the most part largely ignored AI, they are on the verge of fixing some issues though - trust me on that one!
I'm sceptical. They're on the verge for it several years now, or just started to work on it.
As for the "rose tinted glasses" then I'll just say this; Having been a Private Tester for RF2 I have shared my fair share of issues & bugs with the game directly with the Devs, I'm only too aware of the ongoing issues with the Sim and am not blindsided in anyway shape or form - I know they exist - but when people say the game doesn't "work" then I'm sorry but I cannot agree with that whatsoever, that is misinformation
Some things are reported for YEARS now. As a private tester, you should know it and not spread misinformation as it would work fine like any other sim, it doesn't.
Stating that "rf2 doesn't work for the majority of time" is nonsense.
It has issues, it is not user-friendly, but it works for the majority of time.
For me it works 99.26% of time.
Pretty accurate percentage. Good for you, mate. But not for all users.
I can run rF2 fine, but it's the most time consuming sim here in use until even starting to drive.
"It works for the majority of time" is just not true.
 
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Oreca 07 for example. I'm not talking about mods at all in my list.

I bloody care. Because this are MINOR things.

It was affecting many users, not just a "few".

YES, but they don't check their forums very often.

I'm not using many mods at all.

Improved and still abysmal.

It was a Silverstone All-Star Event by "The Race" in the Tatuus car. I don't know which time stamp. Not totally sure, but i think it was Montoya...this guy is sim racing for quite some time.

I and others did...very often. They don't answer.

I and others did...very often. They don't answer, only thing i remember, is a dev answering in Discord (i don't use Discord), they will occasionally look into it.

That's no reason to not have it in the game. High ambience temps are influencing car temps in other ISImotor sims...

Because exploits aren't shared hardly on the official side?? If you want to know more, look in the Porsche GT3 Cup thread in the rF2 forums. I've recorded telemetry and times and underinflated tyres are gaining pace, without losing the car.

It's easy to fix: Deactivate it by default for now out of the box, because it doesn't work properly. It's totally possible for the user, so it's even easier for the actual dev team!

It does not happen to me, but for OSW/Simucube 2 users for example, some Fanatec users also report loss of Auto-DOR adjustment.

Official.

Yes.

I'm sceptical. They're on the verge for it several years now, or just started to work on it.

Some things are reported for YEARS now. As a private tester, you should know it and not spread misinformation as it would work fine like any other sim, it doesn't.

Pretty accurate percentage. Good for you, mate. But not for all users.
I can run rF2 fine, but it's the most time consuming sim here in use until even starting to drive.
"It works for the majority of time" is just not true.
Dude, we get that you aren't satisfied with the sim. Perfectly valid, if you value the forementioned points and have problems. But those are to some extend very specific issues, that don't affect all people. What we are discussing here though is the myth that you need to dig deep into json files or work with tons of workarounds to get the sim running in comparison with other products, simple as that. The mirror system isn't perfect, but you don't need to dig into json files. Loading times are varying alot, some tracks are loading faster than others but nothing stops you from driving, wich is the whole point of this discussion. You are mixing up comfort problems and personal issues with general gamebreakers as if all people had to spent hours and tweak files to get a lap done in rF2. I see lot's of those comfort problems in other sims and it isn't just rF2 that has those exclusively. In fact I have more problems with loss of auto DOR in other sims, but it's nothing that makes me label those sims as unplayable, nor does it stop me from playing. The AI in ACC drives like a torpedo into player cars when leaving the pitlane and to not call it abysmal would be an understatement. Running off in the last sector invalidates your whole next lap in PCars 2 and people crashing from MP lobbies happens regulary. The AI runs comepletely nuts during SC periods in AMS and the game freezes while people join servers (watch Jimmy B.s last AMS stream if you need a proof). Cars spin out into nowhere in iRacing due to problems with the TM. It just happens with different software products on PCs. If you can't get your head around that, then you are proapbly better of with playing on consoles or just playing what floats your boat. But don't pretend that everyone has the same issues and preferences as you. That's pretty annoying to say the least.
 
We'll agree to disagree then :)
That's why pace in development of rF2 fails.
Lenient testing attitude (generally spoken, not facing at you), often accusation of misinformation, instead of discussing the reasons behind it and forcing priorities and ending up in "agree to disagree".
Critizism and questioning for improvement is going to be marked as "bashing". Some things even end up as a meme, sometimes, because obvious things don't receive any look into...

I'm not one of the "lazy-dev" callers, no worries, i think, devs like Offermans and co. are loving and caring for their baby, no one is doing this job, without enthusiasm for the whole topic.

But i see absolutely wrong focus on objectives (competition system and eSports focus is just not the major construction site, rF2 needs right now in my eyes), that could wait and a lack of staff in personal. I see minor annoying things, able to fix within a minute, that are still up to the user, i see degressing physics and drivablilty, AI polish and even lack of care for aspects, that were great for rF2 in the past.

The UI is an important step in the right direction (IMO), but it doesn't really improve usability by now, as long, as you're outside a session. (Also the setup menu needs more klicks now, to do one thing, this is a step back in some departments).

There are stability issues and "first-look" problems, that WILL scare away new users. Things that are normally pretty easy to fix, but not getting touched or take huge amounts of time to receive a fix.


What we are discussing here though is the myth that you need to dig deep into json files or work with tons of workarounds to get the sim running in comparison with other products, simple as that. The mirror system isn't perfect, but you don't need to dig into json files. Loading times are varying alot, some tracks are loading faster than others but nothing stops you from driving, wich is the whole point of this discussion.
The whole point of the discussion is, that rF2 isn't usable like any other sim on the market.
If you can't get your head around that, then you are proapbly better of with playing on consoles or just playing what floats your boat. But don't pretend that everyone has the same issues and preferences as you. That's pretty annoying to say the least.
You've understood nothing. Sorry mate. I'm not just talking about own issues. My list of issues is not that long, but many other users have WAY more issues and i'm pointing this out.
If it's too hard for you, to accept critizism, than you are probably better off with not posting in a discussion plattform about it to actually let something succeed and improve, instead of fanboying and defending everything.^^

I've even stated (in many occasions over the time i use rF2), that you get a fantastic driving experience, when everything is dialed in correctly...i even stated it here, it wasn't triggering any attention, because it is overseen, because you're "annoyed", to say the least.
 
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That's why pace in development of rF2 fails.
Lenient testing attitude (generally spoken, not facing at you), often accusation of misinformation, instead of discussing the reasons behind it and forcing priorities and ending up in "agree to disagree".
Critizism and questioning for improvement is going to be marked as "bashing". Some things even end up as a meme, sometimes, because obvious things don't receive any look into...

I'm not one of the "lazy-dev" callers, no worries, i think, devs like Offermans and co. are loving and caring for their baby, no one is doing this job, without enthusiasm for the whole topic.

But i see absolutely wrong focus on objectives (competition system and eSports focus is just not the major construction site, rF2 needs right now in my eyes), that could wait and a lack of staff in personal. I see minor annoying things, able to fix within a minute, that are still up to the user, i see degressing physics and drivablilty, AI polish and even lack of care for aspects, that were great for rF2 in the past.

The UI is an important step in the right direction (IMO), but it doesn't really improve usability by now, as long, as you're outside a session. (Also the setup menu needs more klicks now, to do one thing, this is a step back in some departments).

There are stability issues and "first-look" problems, that WILL scare away new users. Things that are normally pretty easy to fix, but not getting touched or take huge amounts of time to receive a fix.



The whole point of the discussion is, that rF2 isn't usable like any other sim on the market.

You've understood nothing. Sorry mate. I'm not just talking about own issues. My list of issues is not that long, but many other users have WAY more issues and i'm pointing this out.
If it's too hard for you, to accept critizism, than you are probably better off with not posting in a discussion plattform about it to actually let something succeed and improve, instead of fanboying and defending everything.^^

I've even stated (in many occasions over the time i use rF2), that you get a fantastic driving experience, when everything is dialed in correctly...i even stated it here, it wasn't triggering any attention, because it is overseen, because you're "annoyed", to say the least.
I am the one who doesn't understand anything? I am the one who doesn't understand criticism? Again, I have nothing against your criticsm or your opinions and you have some valid points, but I have something against people who think that everything is easy to fix and that they need to speak in behalf of everyone else and claim that they are part of the majority. What's up with the majority of those people who gave the sim a good review on Steam during the last month? How does a sim, that is supposedly broken or unusable according to the majority of users here, get a score of 85% good reviews on Steam overall, where bad products are getting sloughtered for crying out loud? I don't think that rF2 is perfect, finished or anything else and I would like to see things getting changed aswell. But this doesn't stop me from enjoying the sim as any other sim on the market and I am just making a guess here, but I think there are quite a few other people who do the same. But they all must be wrong ofcourse. Maybe you understand now, where the problem is, but I won't hold my breath ;)
 
I fully understand from a user's point of view that rfactor2 can be frustrating and that is easy from the outside to pass judgment on things you don't understand yourself, any sim for that matter when features are not present or at worst just not working can give a bad impression (look how long it took RaceRoom to get working Flags in game for example and they're far from perfect!).

But the fundamental point is that rfactor2 "works" which is from where this original discussion started, there's no denying that, if it doesn't work for individuals it's more down to them than the software at use most of the time.

At the end of the day no sim is perfect, they all have their individual weaknesses as well as strong points, which is why i enjoy them all for what they offer regardless of their flaws.
 
I am the one who doesn't understand anything? I am the one who doesn't understand criticism? Again, I have nothing against your criticsm or your opinions and you have some valid points, but I have something against people who think that everything is easy to fix and that they need to speak in behalf of everyone else and claim that they are part of the majority. What's up with the majority of those people who gave the sim a good review on Steam during the last month? How does a sim, that is supposedly broken or unusable according to the majority of users here, get a score of 85% good reviews on Steam overall, where bad products are getting sloughtered for crying out loud? I don't think that rF2 is perfect, finished or anything else and I would like to see things getting changed aswell. But this doesn't stop me from enjoying the sim as any other sim on the market and I am just making a guess here, but I think there are quite a few other people who do the same. But they all must be wrong ofcourse. Maybe you understand now, where the problem is, but I won't hold my breath ;)
I'm enjoying rF2, that's why i care to see improvements, so i can recommend it to people, that are unfamiliar to its foundation. I use this foundation since GTR and F1 Challenge 99-02 and some things are worse in usability, compared to back then. ;)

I'm not speaking for a majority of people. I'm just dropping facts on what is still not working properly. You are referring to subjective reviews.


But the fundamental point is that rfactor2 "works" which is from where this original discussion started, there's no denying that, if it doesn't work for individuals it's more down to them than the software at use most of the time.
It works...while needing to catch a breath and getting help to stand up, after falling by the user. So yes...why should i recommend a frustrating experience, when i can recommend a working one. I'm not bashing things here.
 
Crimson, you need to understand that criticism is a synonym for insult in the rf2 world. Any discussion about rf2 will always spin back to be a discussion about you. You are not hardcore, not elite enough. If you don't like it just leave. That's how it works with this community. It is pointless to try to have a discussion with the triviums and marcgs here. Even after you have proven a clear flaw exists in the game they just move the goal posts to another simulation (see a marcg post above).

The devs do seem to pay attention at times an it is clear marcel cares for example. But they don't write anything down so every flaw or issue in the game seems to be a surprise for them. For example rf2 has had insanely long and slow loading times for ages and everybody knows it. All it took was some randoms complaining about it in one of the rf2 threads and I think marcel saw it and something was done about it. I think sadly the only way to get rf2 stuff fixed is to wait until they release some news and racedepartment makes an article about. Marcel will likely read that thread so next time spam those list of issues there and I guarantee they'll get fixed.
 
Crimson, you need to understand that criticism is a synonym for insult in the rf2 world. Any discussion about rf2 will always spin back to be a discussion about you. You are not hardcore, not elite enough. If you don't like it just leave. That's how it works with this community. It is pointless to try to have a discussion with the triviums and marcgs here. Even after you have proven a clear flaw exists in the game they just move the goal posts to another simulation (see a marcg post above).

The devs do seem to pay attention at times an it is clear marcel cares for example. But they don't write anything down so every flaw or issue in the game seems to be a surprise for them. For example rf2 has had insanely long and slow loading times for ages and everybody knows it. All it took was some randoms complaining about it in one of the rf2 threads and I think marcel saw it and something was done about it. I think sadly the only way to get rf2 stuff fixed is to wait until they release some news and racedepartment makes an article about. Marcel will likely read that thread so next time spam those list of issues there and I guarantee they'll get fixed.


My dear old thing did we read my posts? I clearly, very clearly, stated that I'm fully aware of the games flaws - they are known by me. And it's not just this community, it's RD in general where people come out the woodwork to bitch & moan about any Sims flaws without proper understanding of the software involved.
 
Crimson, you need to understand that criticism is a synonym for insult in the rf2 world. Any discussion about rf2 will always spin back to be a discussion about you. You are not hardcore, not elite enough. If you don't like it just leave.
This is a general problem in sim racing, not just in rF2 and i'm also fanboying the sh** out of some things like Reiza Sims (and also complaining, if something is wonky).

I think, i'm hardcore (you're right with this elitism, though) enough, to fix most of the issues by myself, i'm doing it for quite a while with PC stuff, but others aren't able to do this and this is, where my moaning (even as sorry as i am for that) starts,

I always try to be objective and not to bash anything, this is not my target of discussions, but sometimes, cynism kicks in and i'm even sorry for that.
That's how it works with this community. It is pointless to try to have a discussion with the triviums and marcgs here.
It's not pointless. @MarcG for example wasn't approaching me hostile in any way, read his posts, you will see him being open about many things. It's just a bit too much disbelief regarding some things, like official content being flawed and so on...Name calling isn't helpful right now.^^
 

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