read more: FFB Tweaks

I've worked with x4fab to add a new feature to the Custom Shaders Patch (as of 0.1.51) and the description is fairly brief so I thought it's worth going into a bit more detail about what this does.

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Gyro Implementation

[ ] Active check to enable
Strength 25% adjust effect strength
AC has an "Experimental Gyro" FFB effect whose purpose was adding gyroscopic effects to the steering. It never lost the experimental tag and all it's generally recommended for is damping down oscillations on direct drive wheels.
This is that, developed slightly further based on my understanding of the nature of gyroscopic forces. I have a pretty solid case for making this change, and I believe this force exists in actual cars, and AC's original experimental gyro does not.

The developed version still suits the purpose of damping oscillations, but more importantly it decouples the body from the front wheels - so if the front wheels are pointing in a direction and the body moves around them, no gyroscopic precession happens, and no force is generated. Concretely, what we're talking about here is oversteer - on the original experimental gyro, the force acts counter to self-alignment during oversteer. With this new implementation, self-alignment is allowed to occur freely, or, if the oversteer is so quick that the wheels can't self-align, it'll actually push in the direction of alignment.

25% is simply equivalent to the original force multiplier used on experimental gyro when merging it with other FFB forces. Ultimately, the same as the other amplification ffb effects like road and slip effect, the slider is available to magnify it if your hardware's limitations are obscuring the effect.
As of CSP 0.1.53 the strength slider is outdated. A calculation using the suspension geometry now provides the right precession-based force for each car.
The description is a little bit misleading; this replaces "Experimental Gyro" so disabling it is superfluous, if this is Active, experimental gyro is not. Still, it won't hurt to disable experimental gyro and be certain it's off.

Now that I've said what the intent is, I will also note the following: this changes FFB in pretty much every dynamic situation. It's not just an improvement for drift cars or for vintage cars that oversteer constantly; any time the car moves around on the tires it feels slightly different from before. To me, it's a positive change, it's clearer what the car is doing, and I have heard similarly positive comments from testers. Nonetheless, I am not omniscient, I have not driven all these cars in real life, it's up to you to decide whether it improves your game or gives you better sim feeling the rubber or what. Modifying games to improve the FFB is a fine tradition starting with some extremely thorough efforts in rfactor1, and this is no different (maybe a bit easier to install).

I will note that it slightly increases max forces when cornering so if you have stuff set up to barely clip, you'll need an adjustment downward in global ffb mult.

Range Compression

Range compression 100% - 100% is the "default off" of this effect
[ ] Range compression assist - check to convert cars' "steer assist" into range compression.

New FFB Tweak available as of 0.1.53. The name comes from the audio world, where dynamic range compression means bringing up the quiet sounds while leaving loud sounds at their original volume. This is a much more second derivative friendly version of the Gamma effect.

The percentage is straightforward: Set it to how much you want to multiply small forces. Or adjust it in sync with your overall gain if you want to maintain the level of small forces and change large forces. For example, 200% compression + 50% gain = original 100% on small forces, larger forces decrease. If you're curious, the curve at the point of maximum force is simply the inverse, 200% compression will cause large forces 50% of the original delta in force. But in combination with 50% gain, you're moving the original maximum force downward and the ceiling before the game clips is much higher.

Think of this like power steering: you only want it to assist the heavy forces and give you maximum feel of the light forces.

This is very much an "adjust to taste" thing, it operates smoothly enough that you're safe running it upward of 300%, and I have seen IRL data indicating that manufacturers effectively go as high as 600% in power steering systems, when they want to bring 20+N forces down to a comfortable 2-3N.

Steer assist is a built in per-car feature of AC that applies a gamma function to that car's FFB. If you check Range compression assist, then FFB Tweaks will calculate an appropriate range compression adjustment, and disable steer assist. This should give you a far more normal FFB feeling (no weird bumps around center) while retaining the original goal of giving high downforce cars enough low-speed FFB to be drivable.
 
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Somewhere on the first pages the question was answered:
- the original gyro should automatically get disabled when you're activating the csp one

- it can't hurt to disable the original gyro anyway though

- ofc you can use the damper slider etc from the experimental section in cm! Just don't activate gyro there
Thanks RasmusP I’m doing just that on my csw 2.5. I’ve have tested over the last couple weeks. Feels really great with a good understanding of how the tyre is behaving. Cheers
 
google translate: Does the gyroscope work with the DFGT wheel? I don't feel any difference on my steering wheel.
Yes, it works with all wheels!
But the dfgt has so much resistance in the base, that you can't really feel the gyro.

The standard AC gyro is not noticeable. The csp FFB tweaks extension does make a difference though. Even with the dfgt!
 
Even with these fixes, the SAT is messed up with my G29. If I start to get sideways and let go of the wheel, as soon as the slip angle goes above a certain limit, my SAT vanishes completely and the wheel just spins in one direction until it hits the soft lock, then stops there. Impossible to catch slides in this way. The same happens if I use default Kunow gyro or the CSP corrected one. This is the only sim where it happens, too.

Any hints on how to fix it?
 
  • Deleted member 197115

Even with these fixes, the SAT is messed up with my G29. If I start to get sideways and let go of the wheel, as soon as the slip angle goes above a certain limit, my SAT vanishes completely and the wheel just spins in one direction until it hits the soft lock, then stops there. Impossible to catch slides in this way. The same happens if I use default Kunow gyro or the CSP corrected one. This is the only sim where it happens, too.

Any hints on how to fix it?
CSP "corrected" gyro overrides one from Kunos. make sure that it's disabled entirely while keeping Kunos one on, that should add enough dynamic damping to slow down that recovery snapback.
 
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Гироскоп оказывается работает на моём DFGT. Но работает он странно: на некоторых автомобилях (lmp 1, maserati 250F и некоторых гражданские) руль вырывает из рук на неровных дорогах (Highlands, Nordscheife). Даже если Strenght = 1%. А на GT 3 разница почти не чувствуется.
Извините, возможно google translate переводит не точно. Надеюсь моя проблема понятна.

Google translate: The gyroscope turns out to be working on my DFGT. But it works strangely: on some cars (lmp 1, maserati 250F and some road cars), the steering wheel rips out of the hands on uneven roads (Highlands, Nordscheife). Even if Strenght = 1%. And on the GT 3, the difference is hardly noticeable.
Sorry, maybe google translate doesn't translate accurately. I hope my problem is clear.
 
Гироскоп оказывается работает на моём DFGT. Но работает он странно: на некоторых автомобилях (lmp 1, maserati 250F и некоторых гражданские) руль вырывает из рук на неровных дорогах (Highlands, Nordscheife). Даже если Strenght = 1%. А на GT 3 разница почти не чувствуется.
Извините, возможно google translate переводит не точно. Надеюсь моя проблема понятна.

Google translate: The gyroscope turns out to be working on my DFGT. But it works strangely: on some cars (lmp 1, maserati 250F and some road cars), the steering wheel rips out of the hands on uneven roads (Highlands, Nordscheife). Even if Strenght = 1%. And on the GT 3, the difference is hardly noticeable.
Sorry, maybe google translate doesn't translate accurately. I hope my problem is clear.
Honestly I think there is nothing you can really do about that. I'm starting to think this is just a horrible game and I seriously wonder why it is praised so much. Nordschleife is borderline undriveable with 95% or the cars.
At first I really wanted to put the blame here to my cheapo DFGT but ACC feels amazing, R3E feels amazing, even iRacing feels so very natural.
Then I wanted to put the blame myselft for being a **** driver. So, I put my friends in front of the wheel, who have never played a sim before, and they could drive in every other game but could not in AC.

After trying out virtually every setting in combination, In the end I just disabled all CSP tweaks, gain at 100, gamma with 0.85, 0-5% filter to taste (dampens the details a bit but again with DFGT what details?, at least you might get rid of weird oscillations) remove all effects(maybe except a bit of slip) and lastly unticked gyro, then adjust gain in the car. With these settings it's at least only mediocre and not downright terrible...I just wanted to do some hillclimbs/scenic routes with road cars for a change...sigh.
 
Honestly I think there is nothing you can really do about that. I'm starting to think this is just a horrible game and I seriously wonder why it is praised so much. Nordschleife is borderline undriveable with 95% or the cars.
At first I really wanted to put the blame here to my cheapo DFGT but ACC feels amazing, R3E feels amazing, even iRacing feels so very natural.
Then I wanted to put the blame myselft for being a **** driver. So, I put my friends in front of the wheel, who have never played a sim before, and they could drive in every other game but could not in AC.

After trying out virtually every setting in combination, In the end I just disabled all CSP tweaks, gain at 100, gamma with 0.85, 0-5% filter to taste (dampens the details a bit but again with DFGT what details?, at least you might get rid of weird oscillations) remove all effects(maybe except a bit of slip) and lastly unticked gyro, then adjust gain in the car. With these settings it's at least only mediocre and not downright terrible...I just wanted to do some hillclimbs/scenic routes with road cars for a change...sigh.

google translate: In ACC GT3 \ GT4 cars. In AC on cars of the GT3\GT4 class, there are no complaints about the FFB. Claims for some LMP 1, formula and some old cars. And to road cars, but also not to all.
В ACC GT3\GT4. В AC на машинах класса GT3\GT4 к FFB нет никаких претензий. Претензии к некоторым машинам LMP 1, formula и к некоторым старым автомобилям. И к дорожным автомобилям, но тоже не ко всем.
 
  • Deleted member 197115

google translate: In ACC GT3 \ GT4 cars. In AC on cars of the GT3\GT4 class, there are no complaints about the FFB. Claims for some LMP 1, formula and some old cars. And to road cars, but also not to all.
В ACC GT3\GT4. В AC на машинах класса GT3\GT4 к FFB нет никаких претензий. Претензии к некоторым машинам LMP 1, formula и к некоторым старым автомобилям. И к дорожным автомобилям, но тоже не ко всем.
Do you have the same issues with Kunos native or no Gyro at all?
 
Do you have the same issues with Kunos native or no Gyro at all?
google translate: I wrote above that the gyroscope works for me. But it works strangely on some cars. Kunos and mods.
Я писал выше, что гироскоп у меня работает. Но он работает странно на некоторых автомобилях. Kunos и модовых.
 
  • Deleted member 197115

Hi Andrew_WOT
Do you recommend ffb tweaks or gyro in general for a fanatec 2.5 csw? I’ve done some back to back testing and actually feels more alive with no gyro ticked.
It will feel more alive without Gyro, considering native dampening of belt driven wheels you can get away without using it completely.
I can't speak for FFB tweaks gyro as it doesn't work that well on DD wheel I use, so try if you like it better than no Gyro at all, my experience that it can feel very good on some cars and be a complete shoulder dislocating disaster on others.
 
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Hi Andrew_WOT
Do you recommend ffb tweaks or gyro in general for a fanatec 2.5 csw? I’ve done some back to back testing and actually feels more alive with no gyro ticked.
I'm loving the csp gyro with my csw 2.5 in GT3 cars.
Of course it will feel more alive without any gyro stuff, since the gyro stuff is dampening.
In gt3 cars it helps to catch slides since it calms the wheel in crucial moments, which simply makes more sense to my brain.

I don't think the csw 2.5 is much "naturally damped" from its belt drive. It can feel like sandpaper and flick your wrists when you turn off the natural dampening (dri).
But ofc it's slightly more dull than a DD wheel.
But still alive enough for gyro to make sense to use.

I don't really like the Kunos gyro though. Only the csp one!
 
It will feel more alive without Gyro, considering native dampening of belt driven wheels you can get away without using it completely.
I can't speak for FFB tweaks gyro as it doesn't work that well on DD wheel I use, so try if you like it better than no Gyro at all, my experience that it can feel very good on some cars and be a complete shoulder dislocating disaster on others.
I feel the same way, the CSP gyro doesnt really work with a DD wheel, it feels as if the whole steering assembly and wheels dont have any mass, it feels very light and it "snaps' back way to aggressive.
Adding friction and damper does help but it filters out most of the small forces which in the end makes the wheel feel very dull.
Ive tried for hours to get a decent FFB profile with the new gyro but i just dont seem to get the results i want.
The kunos gyro isnt perfect by any means but for my setup its the better option for sure.
 
  • Deleted member 197115

I feel the same way, the CSP gyro doesnt really work with a DD wheel, it feels as if the whole steering assembly and wheels dont have any mass, it feels very light and it "snaps' back way to aggressive.
Adding friction and damper does help but it filters out most of the small forces which in the end makes the wheel feel very dull.
Ive tried for hours to get a decent FFB profile with the new gyro but i just dont seem to get the results i want.
The kunos gyro isnt perfect by any means but for my setup its the better option for sure.
SC2 Pro here as well and that's pretty much what most users conclude on GD board too.
In my mind ideally it should be ACC style adjustable dynamic damper.
 
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