Open Letter to Sim Developers - Why the Lack of Touring Cars in Sim Racing?

[Andy-R]

From a gaming point of view, I have very little interest in driving FWD cars that I see every day. FWD is not really much fun to drive (for me) and I don't get a thrill out of thinking "I'm driving a Honda Civic!!".

They may be great for real-life racing, but for sim racing I much prefer older RWD cars. If my ambition outweighs my talent, it's much more fun to powerslide than it is run lose the front and run wide...

Plenty of oversteer moments to be had in the Abarth cup car if you make a mistake Embrace the dark side that is FWD!

All the modern race cars I enjoy in AC are much more like touring cars than GT come to think of it, the 500AC, MX5 cup & M235i are all good fun. GT4 is on the cusp, they are OK I imagine I could find one I really enjoyed in a full grid of them but a little sterile, same goes for the TT cup car.

 

[Metla]

The reason is money.

If anyone thought they could make some coin off it, it would be on the shelves.(or steam)

 

[DaVeX↯]

AMS Marcas are a good pack of touring cars...
Btw would be great to have a DLC for AMS or rF2 about BTCC with all cars and tracks

 

[Eckhart von Glan]

when race came out in 2006 it featured just the wtcc in its heyday, varied grid, interesting tracks, the lot (and I think I remember also minis and one more support series). all players who were around back then really went for it, because it was the next step developers were taking after gtr2 and we just bought what was there. later (race07, gtr evo) more and different series / types were added and the game was a) put on steam and b) opened up to mods. at least here at rd, race and race07 are what we started with, the epic first and second RDTCC which really laid the ground for what is there today.
i guess one reason why touring car racing does not attract so many players is that the typical close paint-swapping type of racing it is best at needs a dedicated community and is not possible on opens ervers. it's the same with rallyx, which is fine for a small group of players knowing each other but mayhem and chaos for larger, more anonymous audiences.
it's a pity iRacing never got beyond promises concerning their btcc plans, but i guess they also figured their sr system would be difficult to uphold with touring car type racing. the system allows for only four oponents touched/knocked each race and in touring car racing, this can happen in just one lap with all competitors still going strong afterwards.

 

[masteric123]

I honestly do not care about touring cars. They're small and now in this "WTCR" even slower than last year. Prefer GTE, faster cars and good looking. And for grand touring, GT3 cars, DTM, SuperGT I will always choose over GT4, TCR.

 

[Will Mazeo]

It's all in the word "touring", which is an old-folks word. Kids never use this word in a racing context. Where is the excitement? Where is the balls-to-the-wall action implied?

verb (used without object)

1. to travel from place to place.
2. to travel from town to town fulfilling engagements.

verb (used with object)

1. to travel through (a place).
2. to send or take (a theatrical company, its production, etc.) from town to town.
3. to guide (someone) on a tour:

The definition of touring and stock in racing is pretty much lost since ages, especially because there is no actual stock car racing in the big series anymore, even NASCAR is a touring car series and has been for decades

 

[muzikant]

While the idea of doing something different (and purely "historic") is highly seducing (at least for people like you and me), it's also quite risky and hard to achieve on a commercial point of view. And not even talking about licenses....
I also had this illusion that there's lot of money to make with it but it's sadly far from the reality of the market.
These are the main reasons why we probably won't see some titles like GPL again.
I agree it's a shame but a developer needs to be successful nowadays, or he will simply disappear

And let's agree that historic content is plethoric since the last 2-3 years, with some machines and tracks we would never ever imagine to be able to drive one day in a racing game

With all due respect from your marked. What I say.. then make everybody the same blue shoe... year after year with much of the same cars... tracks like spa... monza.
sometimes you have to take risk..if you want to win. Have you try it? I love RRE yesterday I buy twin ring monteki and I love it no doubt but is much of the same... and after the last update again there was no carfilter to clean up your old gtr3 cars. What is simpler than a carfilter to make your classes? I have everything buying from RRE and a little disappointed. I support your game full!


But ontopic... the whole package tracks cars of a whole season specifically a year.. the same of a real...
I mean a real green hell like it was in that days Nurburgring. Why you can,t make it in raceroom experience not a version of 1976? Most of the simracers love this track so much. Everybody talks about the green hell.....
I am sorry but in this modern days there is not green hell anymore...bumpy and degarous how it was.

At last why you are so sure?? there is no market from the golden era of motorsport. Have you visit ever srmz grandprix legends fan forum. It is after 20 years still a life with a lot of fan base.

 

[Jonny Austin]

Touring cars in sims have the following problem.
They dont sound,look or drive as well as GT3 cars.The FWD cars drive the same.
The attraction of Touring cars is the close racing.A grid at Brands Hatch in BTCC real life is covered by approx 1 sec.A typical grid in online racing with similar cars at least 2-3 sec.
Having said that.I think Iracing should have a TCR or BTCC class & ditch the Kia & VW Jetta diesel thing.

 

[Denis Gicquel]

DTM-cars are pure prototypes with no resemblance of any real cars under the hood. In pCars 2 there are enough touring-car classes with a decent field like Group 5, GT1, GT4, GTO, TC, Super Trofeo plus the vintage-classes.

Group 5, GT1 and GTO were mostly prototypes with no resemblance of any real cars under the hood. Just have a look at Zakspeed building the Group 5 Capri and you'll see that they only kept the roof, windshield and windows from the original car. And with 600 bhp or more, no question of calling them touring cars.

 

[anthony monteil]

With all due respect from your marked. What I say.. then make everybody the same blue shoe... year after year with much of the same cars... tracks like spa... monza.
sometimes you have to take risk..if you want to win. Have you try it? I love RRE yesterday I buy twin ring monteki and I love it no doubt but is much of the same... and after the last update again there was no carfilter to clean up your old gtr3 cars. What is simpler than a carfilter to make your classes? I have everything buying from RRE and a little disappointed. I support your game full!


But ontopic... the whole package tracks cars of a whole season specifically a year.. the same of a real...
I mean a real green hell like it was in that days Nurburgring. Why you can,t make it in raceroom experience not a version of 1976? Most of the simracers love this track so much. Everybody talks about the green hell.....
I am sorry but in this modern days there is not green hell anymore...bumpy and degarous how it was.

At last why you are so sure?? there is no market from the golden era of motorsport. Have you visit ever srmz grandprix legends fan forum. It is after 20 years still a life with a lot of fan base.

R3E contains a number of tracks you will not see anywhere else but they feature some enjoyable layouts though.

And yes, I agree a car filter is highly needed (this is my number 1 feature in racing games).

As for a full historic racing game, the simple fact that not a single publisher will sign for it is enough to explain why developers are not jumping in that train.

The market is dictated by numbers (sales) and the numbers say that for one person who'd love to drive some old GT or prototypes in a game, there are 20 who prefer to race a GT3 car...

Just look at the poll results for AC content, it's a real eye-opener, and it saddens me aswell because we missed some true jewels.

 

[muzikant]

R3E contains a number of tracks you will not see anywhere else but they feature some enjoyable layouts though.

And yes, I agree a car filter is highly needed (this is my number 1 feature in racing games).

As for a full historic racing game, the simple fact that not a single publisher will sign for it is enough to explain why developers are not jumping in that train

The market is dictated by numbers (sales) and the numbers say that for one person who'd love to drive some old GT or prototypes in a game, there are 20 who prefer to race a GT3 car...

And what about a nurburgring old track layout for the historic cars you have in RRE like dtm 92 and classic touring cars? Is it a lot of work to change some road textures... billboards railguard curb or something. Perhaps 2 versions of your tracks... spa.. monza.. nurburgring...silverstone..imola..austria......... a classic and a new one.. not for your game but I think when gamedevelopers make 2 or 3 versions of the layout in a specifally year... mod makers doing the rest because there will always be morw cars than tracks.

But thanks for your comment

 

[anthony monteil]

In Nords and Spa cases, it's not only the textures that need to be changed, the layouts are also quite different (even for Monza), which means a complete new track in the end. Not even talking about Silverstone and Zeltweg that were totally different from nowadays.

Historic layouts have been discussed but considering the amount of work and the limited ressources, I'm afraid it can't be a priority for now.

 

[muzikant]

Thats is the problem there is never a priority.
Make the same blue shoes like everyone.. I like and have pleasure with RRE no doubt!! ..Ac..Automobilista and Rfactor2 but hope one day.. They come with more.

 

[Will Mazeo]

A priority should be 24h cycle, weather, driver swaps and rejoin (it has this already?) if RR had this I'd play no other sim, but since it doesnt I just cant see myself spending money on static sims anymore

 

[Grape-Juice]

The only game I've seen do touring cars is Project cars 2 and they have all the support races for BTCC but not many from the actual series which is sad because it deserves something like the game blancpain is getting.

It would be cool to see how ballast is implemented into a long running champion ship or to level out better cars or drivers like they do in the series so people of a same safety rating could play even if they aren't of similar skill.

 

[Cristian Haba]

Need dedicated audience big enough to make it profitable and fun. Also fwd, in Race/07 I drove nothing but the E46 and E90, couldn't be competitive in the fwd cars at all. So there needs to be a rwd option.

But yah market says different like the dev is outlining, miracle we've gotten some cars that we have now other than formula cars and GTs.

 

[KODIAK]

No love for the vasc

theyre touring cars to!

 

[speedfreak75]

EASY: before TCR the touring car world was virtually dead for a decade. Nobody watched WTTC etc.

Honestly, this thread is weird and makes no sense.

Agreed.... They're slow, they're ugly they just suck

 

[Patrik Marek]

Current TCR competition have at least 11 different manufacturers represented, which is more than current GT3 cars. It's not about numbers, it's about popularity.

Modern GT3 and GT4 cars have been around since at least 1991 and when BPR started in 1994 they only kept evolving up to the point we are at today. TCR as a class was created in 2015. The format just needs time. But thankfully, more championships are adopting the formula and said popularity is slowly building up.

I was talking about representation in games, such as AC

 

[muzikant]

Take a look on Srmz the grandprix legends community... there is a lot of people like the old days cars tracks...after 20 years this forum is still alive!! And that says everything!!!! Gtr2 have the power and glory mod.. real good stuff!! I am sure about my opinion. How are gamedevelopers so sure that it will not work?