Open Letter to Sim Developers - Why the Lack of Touring Cars in Sim Racing?

[Andy-R]

I've put email to BTCC few times to ask how in hell I'm supposed to see those races here in Finland after they geoblocked that ITV-site where you could watch races afterwards, never got any answer.

I'm in the UK and it seems they have stopped the full race replay thing altogether on ITV, the last race on there is Thruxton. There is a Dailymotion channel with full ITV coverage of all races so far this year though. If that disappears and all that is left is ITV highlights I will stop watching BTCC highlights are useless.

 

[Patrik Marek]

Yes but no one cares, or only solo players. I am admin of a server, I put GT3, server full, I put touring car, historic cars, server empty. I ask my community what they want for opens in side of our championship, they want GT3. People are obsessed by GT3, it's tiring...

I think it's because GT3 roster has a lot of cars to chose from

if you put in a GT4 spec race, or something like E30 , if people don't like 1 or 2 particular cars, there's nothing else to chose from

more cars might be made later on, but who knows
lot of modders get bored after the initial excitement

 

[Richard Dastardly]

As people have said there's a difference between having a few cars which you can knock up a race with, and a full season of a TC series like the TOCA games complete with tracks & rules/race operations specific to that series.

Channel 5 in the UK shows the entire BTCC day, iirc. Certainly watched every support race at Oulton Park recently as well as all 3 BTCC races.

Edit: ITV4, of course.

 

[MapoUK]

I'm in the UK and it seems they have stopped the full race replay thing altogether on ITV, the last race on there is Thruxton. There is a Dailymotion channel with full ITV coverage of all races so far this year though. If that disappears and all that is left is ITV highlights I will stop watching BTCC highlights are useless.

ITV4 broadcast the BTCC live including the support races!

 

[Raikku]

It doesn't help if you can't watch UK-channels elswhere... They are all blocked from foreigners.

 

[Andy-R]

ITV4 broadcast the BTCC live including the support races!

Too spread out, I love BTCC but would have to make myself available for the whole day to watch live. I'm very happy with the Dailymotion channel as I can watch at my leisure. It is probably available abroad as well.

 

[ChaosZeroJK]

Yes but no one cares, or only solo players. I am admin of a server, I put GT3, server full, I put touring car, historic cars, server empty. I ask my community what they want for opens in side of our championship, they want GT3. People are obsessed by GT3, it's tiring...

I don't care if others don't care. As a modder, over the past 10 years I've always made the cars I wanted for myself first and foremost. If then other people liked my job, it was just a welcomed bonus. If they don't, it's their loss, not mine. Always been my MO and always will be.

This time around, it's not different, at least for me. A scratch made TCR mod is being made whether people want it or not and once finished it's going to feature all 2018 cars currently racing worldwide:

+Lada
+Alfa Romeo
+Volkswagen
+Audi
+Peugeot
+Seat/Cupra
+Honda (FK2/FK8)
+Hyundai
+Opel/Vauxhall
-Kia
-Subaru
-Fiat

-Out of 11+1 manufacturers, 6 have been made already (with one being completely remodeled) and at least 3 of the remaining 6 will be worked on in a couple of months from now, leaving out only those OEMs that either have only 1 entry globally (Kia with 1 car in Portugal and 1 in China), are still unclear if they will actually race in 2018 or not (1 Fiat without homologation in Italy) and that are not entered in any championship because they're not being raced anymore this season (1 Subaru raced once in 2018 and won't appear again).

And there's another team working on a 2018 BTCC mod for rF2 aswell which according to them is close to be released and that's another scratch made mod. This is not a pissing contest and I hope S3 decide to finally do something with that WTCR license they have. But with their focus currently elsewhere, I don't see them doing much with it for a while which is a shame because they have the tools we modders don't have: the budget to advertise our products and let the world know these cars exist and are fun to drive/watch

 

[ChaosZeroJK]

I think it's because GT3 roster has a lot of cars to chose from

if you put in a GT4 spec race, or something like E30 , if people don't like 1 or 2 particular cars, there's nothing else to chose from

more cars might be made later on, but who knows
lot of modders get bored after the initial excitement

Current TCR competition have at least 11 different manufacturers represented, which is more than current GT3 cars. It's not about numbers, it's about popularity.

Modern GT3 and GT4 cars have been around since at least 1991 and when BPR started in 1994 they only kept evolving up to the point we are at today. TCR as a class was created in 2015. The format just needs time. But thankfully, more championships are adopting the formula and said popularity is slowly building up.

 

[gamer19]

Yeah, really... what about Raceroom Racing Experience ?
And with all due respect...
I love touring cars (since I'm not much of a racer so slower cars suits me more, my lack of speed become more obvious) that is racing series that as far as I know only Eurosport fully coverage.
And Eurosport is on really lowest these days... their full day "coverage" include the greats like bowling (mostly "icy" one), horse riding, snooker, and everyone favorite - dart contest. Even Poker ("Stars") you can see from time to time !?! Wtf, when that turns into a "sport" ?
From that you can, sadly, conclude how much is this Touring racing really popular.
Broadcasting fees must be like zero. Or even below.

 

[Tberg]

The problem with the Supercars in Iracing is: it’s in Iracing, which many consider to be too expensive. And also it’s almost only popular in Australia. If you try to get into an official race (8 racers +) from within the EU you won’t be lucky. This will change with the AI soon. On the other hand: the Supercars in Automobilista are much better imo.

I'm mostly pulling Paul's leg.
Surely, he wants series on the level of what we'll see in ACC Blancpain, and who knows, if ACC likely is going to raise the bar, we'll see more sims build around complete series.
Personally (and like many others), I hope Kunos will just bring series as DLC to the core ACC game, if possible now it's stated as official Blancpain.

 

[Richard Dastardly]

Other than BTCC and dubiously aussie supercars, what other TC series *aren't* running TCR rules now?

If we look at current TC from a sim racing perspective, the cars are small, nimble, relatively easy to drive, not too powerful and can handle being smacked about a bit. I remember when SRS was running the Seat TCR events there'd be four full servers in the middle of the day, so they actually are kinda popular.

Modern GT3 and GT4 cars have been around since at least 1991 and when BPR started in 1994 they only kept evolving up to the point we are at today. TCR as a class was created in 2015. The format just needs time. But thankfully, more championships are adopting the formula and said popularity is slowly building up.

GT3/4 being around since 1991 is a bit too much of a stretch ( especially since the FIA GT rules weren't complete for the 1993 Le Mans, and they were GT1 & GT2 which respectively are now extinct & became GT1 later & went extinct also ) but there is a good point that there's been some continuity in GT - GT3 was created in 2006, which is a good run as it is. N-GT which is now GTE was originally pretty much the same idea as GT3 ( or arguably GT4, I guess ). In that time TCs have gone through Supertourers, Super 2000, TC1 and now TCR and that's ignoring any national specs.

 

[Shaun Clarke]

Another thing is the driving experience. Touring cars are no the most exciting cars. They don't sound great, they are fwd and don't really have much power. They are great cars for racing but the perception is that they pretty dull to drive.

Really, dull to drive

 

[Damage Inc]

I've put email to BTCC few times to ask how in hell I'm supposed to see those races here in Finland after they geoblocked that ITV-site where you could watch races afterwards, never got any answer.

Sorry to hear that. They don't seem interested in growing their sport outside of the country. At least V8 Supercars are on MotorsportTV, although Super GT and DTM got dropped a while back. No youtube stuff available?

 

[Fat-Alfie]

From a gaming point of view, I have very little interest in driving FWD cars that I see every day. FWD is not really much fun to drive (for me) and I don't get a thrill out of thinking "I'm driving a Honda Civic!!".

They may be great for real-life racing, but for sim racing I much prefer older RWD cars. If my ambition outweighs my talent, it's much more fun to powerslide than it is run lose the front and run wide...

 

[Petaitor]

I mean, both Assetto Corsas are mainly focused in touring cars (ACC being entirely focused), so there's not that much of a lack there imo

 

[Richard Dastardly]

I mean, both Assetto Corsas are mainly focused in touring cars (ACC being entirely focused), so there's not that much of a lack there imo

GT cars are not touring cars - I know GT means "Grand Tourer", but it's not the same at all, GT cars are sportscars. We should have kept on calling TCs Saloon cars, really.

TCR cars are FWD. Not every TC is TCR spec, nor are they all FWD.

 

[Kenny Paton]

In the UK Freesport's TV on Freeview cover various formats;

FIA World Rallycross Championship
Australian V8 Supercars
NASCAR Xfinity series live
NASCAR Truck series live
Swedish Speedway live/delayed
Polish Speedway live/delayed
Monster Jam highlights
Arena Cross highlights
Super Cross highlights
FIM Trial GP highlights
FIM Enduro GP highlights
Super Enduro World Championship highlights
Formula Drift highlights
On the Limit Sport magazine show

A lot of it may not be cream of the crop but often turns out to be both interesting and entertaining.
ITV I believe have the BTCC rights till 2022 and show the whole of Sunday's races live.
I record it then watch it over the following week.

 

[Oldzeb]

i hate WTCR, DTM, BTCC modern but 60's or' 70's yes i like!!

 

[CC]

Hahaha this one is a little more friendly Mr. F, so worry not

Yes that last one was killer

 

[Banoub]

I awlays enjoyed driving the Chevrolet Laccetti in Codemaster's Race Driver: Grid. I always wish I could drive it again in a game like AC.

Twas firah.
SuperGT? ABSOLUTELY YES, WHY ANY DEVELOPER STILL HAVEN'T INVESTED FULLY IN THIS IN THIS IDKW.
Just kidding. Nah.

Polyphony Digital has more-or-less been obsessed with SuperGT since 1999.