New Tactile Hardware 2023 / 2024

[Mr Latte]

Continued Testing
Already plenty of people are using these pedals for ABS so I decided to try something different for evaluating the units output. Back with ACC and using "Gear Change" and "Road Vibrations" as two effects I thought, may suit the punch character of this unit.

Tried each effect individually and then together.



Simagic HPR / Ratings 1-5
These are scores based on notes taken at the time of testing I gave just by general feel for the following:

10Hz = 3
Solid with decent energy but a lifeless feel to its thud

20Hz = 3
Quite strong, less dead but still quite direct/narrow in feel

30Hz = 5
Good strength but also with a broader sense of feeling, excellent

40Hz = 4
A little less strong in depth but appeared to offer more character in the general feel

50Hz = 3
Limited in energy and detail, okay but other frequencies seemed more enjoyable



Simhub Effects & Used Frequencies
How different effects use/generate sensations may vary, but they are not limited just to the "input values" for frequencies we place. Below I show an example of this as some may think that if you input 40Hz then only 40Hz gets generated or is all that will be felt.

*This may be different when using motors and one reason I feel the sensations are quite narrow in feel to what I am used too.

Early Summary
While not fully conclusive test for me, yet...
So far, at least for me with these effects tried the @30-40Hz range is offering the most fun/detail. Maybe a few Hz either side of that would be what other people like. Or maybe they use lower frequencies for that dead punch to suit their own preferences. Mostly expect the common usage of ABS etc we see people (I assume) primarily buying this product for?



Important Factor
As an experienced tactile enthusiast. I REALLY do not like the limitation of having to use a fixed frequency for all the effects on a specific unit. The reason for this will become ever more apparent when I release the batch of effects for this test I am working on.

One of the things I look to try to bring is differences in feel/operation of the various effects. When you seek to do that then you also discover how different frequencies can be applied to perhaps suit better different types of effects.

I was the first I know of, to try and also expand on that with multi-layering specific values in frequencies focused around the operation of octaves. It is a much more natural way to apply frequencies and I believe brings benefits to how good or satisfying we can make some effects feel.



Simhub & Haptic Controller Usage
Simhub having compatibility with HPR is great to see by making it possible to apply lots of effects to the HPR. However if this factor remains with fixed frequencies then when the HYPE for the HPR dies down.

Okay in fairness, yes beyond it bringing simplified installation and connection, I have to question how good of an option to install it really may be compared to the best exciter?

Some people may be happy just with ABS/GEAR or limited effects but I think they say that because they run into the same limitation of trying to get multiple effects feel good with a fixed frequency. Volume changes is not enough and even a pedal set or base with 3x HPR while that allows 3x different fixed frequencies, the effects are still limited to only applying a single frequency.



Yet To Come
So much better is possible in detail in felt character for effects and perhaps this is why I am struggling more to enjoy the HPR with a static frequency.

Now, here we are in a thread that gains over 3000 views in a short period and not one single owner of the HPR has shared their experiences/preferences in frequencies with any effects. Your welcome if you want and even if you disagree with my own input.

Anyways, next up will be the summary for the BDS unit with the same tests as above..

 

[Petey Spangles]

I posted this on Simhub Discord earlier....

Scenario: Using current Latest Updates to Simhub & Sim Pro Software
Comparing Simagic HPR to Dayton BDS exciter via Douk Audio 50W amplifier using supplied 12V 5A PSU

To configure each to feel similar in output via channel test, I had to reduce the volume for the exciter to @25% in sound output For this test I applied 100% volume for effects and for Simhub Global

Tested Road Vibration / Mono @ 10Hz steps with (10Hz -50Hz)

It appears, their still is an issue with reduced power when trying to use the HPR via amplifier as output is too weak. Even with the 50W amp at max

In comparison using the HPR with Haptic Controller via Motors the output is stronger with the same frequencies applied.

Currently the HPR seems little use trying to use it in BASS SHAKER MODE

While it is true that the output is stronger with the PSU/controller, that doesn't mean using an amp isn't viable (I am using a 24V 6A PSU FWIW).

What matters more is which effects you want to use and especially how they're mounted to the pedal.

If they're on P1000's for example, a lot gets absorbed through the pedal arm and you'll find they need more volume/power than they would if on a typical 3D printed mount that attaches directly though the pedal face bolts on other sets.
With this style of mount, it goes directly to the sole of your foot and it makes a BIG difference.

In the latter case, using an amp is still very much viable even if you want to use wheel lock/ABS along with whatever other effects in bass shaker mode.

Using lock/ABS like this with P1000's isn't really viable. and you're better off with the PSU.
The PSU will go stronger at lower frequencies too, although like you, I honestly didn't find anything that felt good under 30hz however they're powered, but it's a subjective thing.

Saying all that, I agree that something like TT25's or perhaps the BDS exciters you're testing are better for everything other than ABS/Lock vs HPR's. They're just far better at subtler detail and multiple frequencies.

 

[Mr Latte]

While it is true that the output is stronger with the PSU/controller, that doesn't mean using an amp isn't viable (I am using a 24V 6A PSU FWIW).

What matters more is which effects you want to use and especially how they're mounted to the pedal.

If they're on P1000's for example, a lot gets absorbed through the pedal arm and you'll find they need more volume/power than they would if on a typical 3D printed mount that attaches directly though the pedal face bolts on other sets.
With this style of mount, it goes directly to the sole of your foot and it makes a BIG difference.

In the latter case, using an amp is still very much viable even if you want to use wheel lock/ABS along with whatever other effects in bass shaker mode.

Using lock/ABS like this with P1000's isn't really viable. and you're better off with the PSU.
The PSU will go stronger at lower frequencies too, although like you, I honestly didn't find anything that felt good under 30hz however they're powered, but it's a subjective thing.

Saying all that, I agree that something like TT25's or perhaps the BDS exciters you're testing are better for everything other than ABS/Lock vs HPR's. They're just far better at subtler detail and multiple frequencies.

Thanks for taking the time to reply

I've not seen any official guidelines regards what is a suitable wattage and as I mentioned earlier I wanted to be cautious not to ruin this unit prior to comparisons. So the question remains to get a similar level of output to the Haptic Controller / PSU how many watts are needed?

It does seem to be likely that Simagic prefer the unit to be used as intended but on their official Discord what has been said regarding users seeking to use amps? Does anyone know?


Different Amp
I do have Behringer EPQ304 amps I can use for tactile (75 watt) but also certain I have a 24V based Nobsound 100W amp hiding somewhere, just need to find it (lol). I agree different pedals/installation will play a part in what a suitable volume or level of output is required and will vary for people.


Reduced Bass Roll Off
Output of lower frequencies could also be varying based on the amp and soundcard used depending on their ability with bass below 20Hz. Some solutions are not that great even below 40Hz.

Your feedback has been helpful because if your mentioning lesser/reduced quality of lower bass compared to the official usage via haptic controller, that could be a crucial factor.


Help?
Are you prepared to share with me, the Simhub settings and effects you have for Wheel Lock/ABS to give me a reference to use with a different amp? Or who the heck has effects they are confident to share?

What I can say is I have tried some of my own effects using both the HPR with the BDS in "Dual Role" mode. I certainly believe their are benefits with this too but more on that in a later post with plans I have...

Even with the HPR connected via the haptic controller and doing those 10Hz - 50Hz tests. On first run of tests, actually the BDS exciter seemed just as strong and in some cases even stronger, it's one of the reasons It has impressed me so much.

I will do more testing in the coming days to confirm the same tests with it and report on how it feels.


Other Small Transducers / Exciters
The TT25 transducer from memory, is too frequency limited for the level of detail I want to apply to effects and for others to enjoy. I know its a popular choice but not even close.



In curiosity but for my own interests, I have even bought a Reckhorn 200i transducer to let me compare it to the BDS exciter unit. I know this transducer is recommended to be better than the Dayton BST 2 / BST 1 models (also confirmed by others) and is similar in performance to the original Aura models. It will just let me gauge how these two very different units may also compare.


Taking Pedal Immersion Further
This is about reaching new heights in immersion with tactile in pedals, but doing so at a reasonable budget level. That is why I want to discover the best hardware combo within that price range and then create and share effects for people to experience the same.

I have ordered 2 pedal set of these having swung away from the P1000
Think they look awesome too...

This guys intro with the "X" is hilarious


Wait to you see what I plan to do with them, but that will get its own thread after the conclusion on this hardware.

 

[Petey Spangles]

Thanks for taking the time to reply

I've not seen any official guidelines regards what is a suitable wattage and as I mentioned earlier I wanted to be cautious not to ruin this unit prior to comparisons. So the question remains to get a similar level of output to the Haptic Controller / PSU how many watts are needed?

Different Amp
I do have Behringer EPQ304 amps I can use for tactile (75 watt) but also certain I have a 24V based Nobsound 100W amp hiding somewhere, just need to find it (lol). I agree different pedals/installation will play a part in what a suitable volume or level of output is required and will vary for people.

It's not really a case of achieving the same levels as the PSU with those heavy effects, it's more that they can reach resonable levels if mounted as I described on other pedal sets that allow for it.
It'll still be maxing out (or close to) the amp and Simhub levels, perhaps not ideal, but still viable.
The PSU will go a lot harder, as you've found.

I agree that it may not be the best idea to push them too hard with bigger amps, especially if you have a lot of effects running through them a lot of the time.

Personally, I don't use ABS. I am currently using lock for a non-ABS car though (at 30hz where it feels best to me with either solution/pedals), and was using the PSU for that with P1000s and have now switched over to my previous pedals using the amp, where it's fine.

Reduced Bass Roll Off
Output of lower frequencies could also be varying based on the amp and soundcard used depending on their ability with bass below 20Hz. Some solutions are not that great even below 40Hz.

Your feedback has been helpful because if your mentioning lesser/reduced quality of lower bass compared to the official usage via haptic controller, that could be a crucial factor.

It's just due to less power and the way it's delivered.
Like I say, I didn't like any of the effects at less than 30hz with/without the PSU.
I didn't tinker with them though, so we're just talking baseline settings in Simhub.
Subjectivity and a pinch of salt required.

Help?
Are you prepared to share with me, the Simhub settings and effects you have for Wheel Lock/ABS to give me a reference to use with a different amp? Or who the heck has effects they are confident to share?

As above, we're just talking baseline settings at 70-100% in amp/simhub @30hz.

Anyway, the BDS sounds good. Might pick one up and have a fiddle.

 

[Mr Latte]

It's not really a case of achieving the same levels as the PSU with those heavy effects, it's more that they can reach resonable levels if mounted as I described on other pedal sets that allow for it.
It'll still be maxing out (or close to) the amp and Simhub levels, perhaps not ideal, but still viable.
The PSU will go a lot harder, as you've found.

I agree that it may not be the best idea to push them too hard with bigger amps, especially if you have a lot of effects running through them a lot of the time.

Personally, I don't use ABS. I am currently using lock for a non-ABS car though (at 30hz where it feels best to me with either solution/pedals), and was using the PSU for that with P1000s and have now switched over to my previous pedals using the amp, where it's fine.



It's just due to less power and the way it's delivered.
Like I say, I didn't like any of the effects at less than 30hz with/without the PSU.
I didn't tinker with them though, so we're just talking baseline settings in Simhub.
Subjectivity and a pinch of salt required.



As above, we're just talking baseline settings at 70-100% in amp/simhub @30hz.

Anyway, the BDS sounds good. Might pick one up and have a fiddle.

Appears, you are highlighting even with the amp usage and benefits that Simhub offers with Bass Shaker mode. The range of frequencies you are using or prefer to use with the HPR is still quite limited then?

Wanted to also ask, as you did not mention anything with how the unit for you felt above 50Hz or if it was not even worth doing?

Come on guys, are you telling me those that have been using these since September last year, going around boasting of using the unit in Bass Shaker Mode are running stock or single layer effects? Using limited frequency ranges or still a static frequency?

If other owners find similar that @30-40Hz range is bringing the best from the HPR unit. That does not represent a lot of frequencies to try to apply multiple effects a user may want to use or be able to achieve a good variation in sensations.

It then means what can even be achieved with Bass Shaker Mode is kinda limited, not pointless, but disappointing?

Look back, from the beginning here, one of the points I have raised about exciters and why from the start this new and larger BDS unit in particular intrigued me the most.

Not only do I believe the BDS can match the HPR in strength but as you will see in the next report from it's tests on every frequency it felt better, more lively and detailed.

Besides that it can go much higher in frequencies too but honestly with the effects I have tried, it feels great with below 20Hz too which does not seem to be the case with the HPR.

 

[Petey Spangles]

Mate, it's just a pedal shaker doing basic pedal shaker things.
Yes, most us mere peons haven't sat there creating multilayered, EQ'd up the wazoo effects to feel a bit of wheel lock, a bit of slip and some road bumpage

Given what it is, of course it's no surprise that it's not going to do what a decent exciter/small transducer type of thing does.

I'd be interested in seeing how well the BDS can do when actually mounted to a pedal and if it can stay attached, given there are no hard mounting points I can see on it.

 

[metalnwood]

Mate, it's just a pedal shaker doing basic pedal shaker things.
Yes, most us mere peons haven't sat there creating multilayered, EQ'd up the wazoo effects to feel a bit of wheel lock, a bit of slip and some road bumpage

Given what it is, of course it's no surprise that it's not going to do what a decent exciter/small transducer type of thing does.

I'd be interested in seeing how well the BDS can do when actually mounted to a pedal and if it can stay attached, given there are no hard mounting points I can see on it.

I have the same feeling, I don't want it to do more than what i have which is rpm on both brake and throttle and lock on brake.
More than that does not feel like it adds to the experience and as the brake is the one of the three most important inputs in the car I actually dont want it doing random things when I am using it, if I use it for feedback I want the feedback to be valuable.
I love all the other effects coming from other parts of the rig and I think that is where the other effects should be.
I could put a lot on the pedals but none of them at this point will make me appreciate what i have any more than i do, contrary, it often doesn't feel right.

 

[Mr Latte]

Mate, it's just a pedal shaker doing basic pedal shaker things.
Yes, most us mere peons haven't sat there creating multilayered, EQ'd up the wazoo effects to feel a bit of wheel lock, a bit of slip and some road bumpage

Given what it is, of course it's no surprise that it's not going to do what a decent exciter/small transducer type of thing does.

I'd be interested in seeing how well the BDS can do when actually mounted to a pedal and if it can stay attached, given there are no hard mounting points I can see on it.

Please go back and read the first post of this thread and the sought after goals....


HPR Summary
At this point, I do not see the HPR bringing much in benefits when using it with the amplifier method. Not only does it bring into play questions about suitable wattage/reliability.

The expected benefits of using "Bass Shaker Mode" in offering the ability of going beyond 50Hz and applying different frequencies to multiple effects. In trying this, the unit is not as enjoyable or as detailed as I found was possible with the other options shown here and this was even with static frequencies.

Based on the best performance frequencies this unit has. It may be restricted in how good it can operate in this manner, even with an amplifier over 50W. Due to this, it then will be limited to these other options shown. So simply, just because you can apply different frequencies to more than one effect using the unit in this way. What can really be achieved with that and how good it is in doing it, is limited.

I don't feel that compelled to try it with a more powerful amp if being told the official controller providing as much power as it can handle already shows limitations in the sensations it brings with the 10-50Hz tests I did.

For me, I like the product but I can't say the hype with the unit matches it's performance. Tactile is very much finding something that feels good to the user and this can vary. For me this unit is too restricted with it's best operating frequency range and I am used to better feeling effects than what this solution provides. So its not for me, but clearly some are very happy with theirs.

While it is a nice product and easy to install as well as open an easy entry into experiencing tactile for pedals. We only have to see how some are blown away by it. As for some this may be their first experience with tactile and how it can enhance the users experience as well as help achieve better driving.

My own recommendation would be not to bother trying to use it with an amp.
If you seek more than basic effects or limited ability to function with a wider arrangement of effects then the other options here would maybe be a better choice.

 

[Mr Latte]

I have the same feeling, I don't want it to do more than what i have which is rpm on both brake and throttle and lock on brake.
More than that does not feel like it adds to the experience and as the brake is the one of the three most important inputs in the car I actually dont want it doing random things when I am using it, if I use it for feedback I want the feedback to be valuable.
I love all the other effects coming from other parts of the rig and I think that is where the other effects should be.
I could put a lot on the pedals but none of them at this point will make me appreciate what i have any more than i do, contrary, it often doesn't feel right.

For perspective and better discussion on this, what you say just raises more questions as you do not explain what your view is based on. Are you referring to only the HPR?

1) What hardware?
2) Show what effects and settings you used?
3) Are the effects you use single layers?
4) Can you utilise a wide range of frequencies like this BDS unit?

Give me a chance to review what your views are based on, then I will highlight how/why I believe much better immersion is possible in the pedals and how we also combine that with the seat.

"Valuable Feedback?"
Ahh, so my perspective... I very much want to enjoy stereo sensations in the pedals for placing wheels over road bumps/kerbs and it totally makes sense to be able to feel these scenarios up front and with the rear wheels in the seat.

If a user prefers to use "Stereo" instead of "Corners" that is easy to change but I disagree that stereo cannot be well implemented or if anyone tries to convince me that mono offers the same level of satisfaction or immersion. Different people will vary yes, however the variation of feel or richness in quality of the effects is a big factor and single layers cannot achieve things we can bring with multi-layers.

The RV / RR / RI and RT effects I seek to use are relevant to help with aiding driving as well as immersion and the sheer fun factor. The difference is, these effects I have used with this BDS unit I believe will be a lot better than what most people have tried or experienced before.

To offer in tactile what a motion system can bring in having positional feedback for the cars wheels/suspension/chassis.

My approach with effects is different, also the effects are made/tuned and tested specifically to work great on the recommended hardware. Any owner of such will then easily be able to enjoy them on their own rig.

if anyone feels the need to question or challenge these points, I have no problems.

 

[metalnwood]

I won't get in to too much detail because I think that our potential use of effects on the pedals are for different reasons.

I don't like the pedals to feel dead when so much of the rig is alive so that is why I have the rpm on them. It draws the pedals back in but is not adding information that may seem out of place there.. I guess I could call rpm a very neutral effect that helps with immersion but neither specifically helps or distracts.

The brake is different, it can be helpful as the feeling of a lockup is immediate and obvious that you have done something wrong. For me it doesnt have to be subtle, it can be a whack across the face that you have done something wrong. My point there is that I should not be feeling this effect normally and when I do it is only mapped to tell me I have overcooked things and I am just as happy for Seargent Slaughter to yell at me with a basic effect as I am for Adele to sing my mistake to me with multiple layers.

The other effect is slip and i use this on the brake and it should only get triggered in braking zones with reasonably heavy braking. So i use the slip effect and make it only trigger when the brake% is over a threshold. It requires a little bit of tuning for the car but I like to get it to the point that I am getting some chattering around maximum braking, so with some white noise thrown in i get that effect.

As far as the tactile I am using, I have 2xhesf2-4 on each pedal. these are great for rpm but not enough for the braking pressure I use so I have the mbq1 mapped for slip/lock and abs, but i really never drive abs cars.

While I consider it a lot of tactile for pedals, and not cheap to get them all and the amps, I still only use them for those basic effects because I feel they are right for driving.

 

[Mr Latte]

I won't get in to too much detail because I think that our potential use of effects on the pedals are for different reasons.

I don't like the pedals to feel dead when so much of the rig is alive so that is why I have the rpm on them. It draws the pedals back in but is not adding information that may seem out of place there.. I guess I could call rpm a very neutral effect that helps with immersion but neither specifically helps or distracts.

The brake is different, it can be helpful as the feeling of a lockup is immediate and obvious that you have done something wrong. For me it doesnt have to be subtle, it can be a whack across the face that you have done something wrong. My point there is that I should not be feeling this effect normally and when I do it is only mapped to tell me I have overcooked things and I am just as happy for Seargent Slaughter to yell at me with a basic effect as I am for Adele to sing my mistake to me with multiple layers.

The other effect is slip and i use this on the brake and it should only get triggered in braking zones with reasonably heavy braking. So i use the slip effect and make it only trigger when the brake% is over a threshold. It requires a little bit of tuning for the car but I like to get it to the point that I am getting some chattering around maximum braking, so with some white noise thrown in i get that effect.

As far as the tactile I am using, I have 2xhesf2-4 on each pedal. these are great for rpm but not enough for the braking pressure I use so I have the mbq1 mapped for slip/lock and abs, but i really never drive abs cars.

While I consider it a lot of tactile for pedals, and not cheap to get them all and the amps, I still only use them for those basic effects because I feel they are right for driving.
View attachment 725895

Thanks for posting.....

LOL, well I know who I recommended the MQB1 too for that very purpose and who then probably influenced you to add one. I recall seeing your rig before but hard to remember who is using what as it's quite some time ago.

I have two of those Earthquake MQB1 units here as well and actually also now 4x of the larger Q10B models.


Multilayers / Not Needed?
If using single layers for an effect, then that effect only has one operational response. In some cases what I discovered is that we may want more than one response, but for these responses, they can operate at different threshold levels and each layer brings its own generated character/sensation. How its implemented may depend on the effect type and the desired feel.

Another factor I relooked at, was how often people resort to a single effect to be responsible for a scenario.

The goal I have expressed is not necessarily for my own build but in doing this, I want to discover a level of immersion we can apply at an affordable level. If you use motion, then again your views on adding stereo effects may be different.

However I would still be confident the way I have now combined RV / RR / RI / RT and each uses multi response layers is to a high standard. Yes they could be beefed up to suit larger LFE etc too but the point I am making is that its not very often people have multiple effects bring their own sensations for their own operational differences but as a group deliver a combined experience.

I can extend on this if you want to show your own usage of those effects. How what you have may vary to this approach.

Often I see people using these effects with very similar static frequencies and it seems they don't quite know ways to apply each of them together.

Motion based tactile, IIRC is mono, so I still see potential for stereo in pedals and the seat. Yet it has to not interfere or overpower other certain effects and this is one of the key challenges. So how we apply certain effects more towards the seat/pedals is relevant too.


Braking
I get what your saying about having an effect operate for a specific scenario or for a unit to be used for specific roles. You want a sensation to stand out as an indicator.

If I was to look at making a new effect for braking. Then I would be experimenting with including other elements too. G Force / Speed / Slip / Lock / ABS.

Yet, why does the general approach seem to be to utilise single key effects and not looking at combing other relevant effects to work together at bringing more felt sensations?

Slip is positional, so again potential with stereo and this then can also be combined with lataral G Force and Speed Sen Steering. Once again, looking at grouping how effects can work in tandem and making them that they do that quite well. It's then upto the user to use which ones they prefer to have on or off.

Also, what is common is that people will build an effect to operate on a specific unit. IIRC you may have wired your exciters together, so you get these always outputting the same thing?

Well two is better than one right?
That depends, because it restricts what you can send to each unit, which then reduces how you could be combining different layers, different frequencies or different effects to operate together. It's why personally I was never a fan of doing that because with Simhub if we want to send identical effects to multiple units we can anyways. Amps are not that expensive but yes some may want to do it based on that.

The BDS unit increases the low bass and general bass frequencies over any of the past Dayton exciters.

It is likely with the Simlab pedal experiment (in its own future thread) this new approach I want to test, will use at least 4-6x units on the dual pedals and pedal base. I want to have the ability to apply specific effect layers to toe/heel regions. This will make it possible to try extending certain layers to more than one unit or to give specific units their own effect roles. Therefore making it easier to apply effects like RPM with stereo based sensations. Some compromises are needed but as mentioned certain effects elements can be placed more to the seat.

Honestly I don't think the vast majority of users will need or want much stronger sensations like we can achieve with these BDS units. Based on the impressions they have gave me so far. These will be great with a seat too.

 

[metalnwood]

Yes, i have two exciters on each pedal and they are wired in series with each pedal having its own channel. Then the MQB having its own channel as well.

I specifically wanted to do this because I didn't have any experience with the exciters but like you, I knew of a number that were killed from being overdriven. I felt that the cost of two on each pedal running them both a bit easier was much better insurance than running one, perhaps too high and killing it resulting in much higher shipping fees to replace it.

The story with where I am now is that I used to have the lfe and tst mounted under the pedal plate but I felt that even though it was isolated, I was losing out with the tactile mounted to a heavy aluminium plate with the pedals. So i removed the isolation from the pedals and hard mounted them, I then mounted the tactile on to an isolated heel tray that is made from 18mm mdf. I felt that the tactile improved when it had much less mass to deal with.

The weight of the pedals and plate should really not be a big influence on things but it could be that because we only have our heels there and not a lot of body weight that our feet feel more from the more active lighter plate. That did lead to the issue that had me put tactile on the pedal faces directly. Heavy braking meant that you lost good contact with the heel tray and missed out on some tactile.

So in came the exciters and the mqb to deal with the pedal faces. Because i handle things differently than you i don't require more much larger units when all the mqb1 need to do is move the pedal face.

I tried to explain that while i am using 'basic effects' it is not just one effect one freq. The slip reaches a threshold based on having reached a certain brake % and certain amount of slip, that will then output based on a range of frequencies and white noise so that it feels organic and not monotone. Once you move past that in to the lock you get the lock effect. So if I look at your statement

--------
'Yet, why does the general approach seem to be to utilise single key effects and not looking at combing other relevant effects to work together at bringing more felt sensations?'
-------

I am doing that, they seem to merge nicely to me but as i say - one effect is not one you want to come on. My brain is in another mode if that happens. I would not notice the difference, recovering from braking mistakes is not the time you do critical analysis of your tactile.

Again, I don't think one way or another is necessarily better, we seem to want different things from our tactile. What I do won't satify me and what you want to do may not add anything that I want in support of the racing.

 

[Mr Latte]

As I said before, if your happy with what you have then thats a good place to be with your tactile. Indeed what you may want or prefer might be different to someone else or both of our own likes or ideas.

What I will be doing is sharing what this experimentation and approach achieves with the effects I work on for it. The BDS seems to be the most impressive unit here, so that is the one I will focus building the effects on. The other exciters do not handle the low frequencies as good, so using two of the units you have on a pedal is not going to achieve the same response.

When complete, the effects will be made available for people. Nothing being sold, but what it will do is give people a starting point with various effects the ability to apply whatever effects they want and from those, whatever effect layers they wish to activate.

So the approach gives people lots of options with no need to change or understand frequencies. They buy the same unit, install them in ways recommended. Then all they have to do is decide volumes and what effects to activate to their own moods or preferences. It will bring people a very good level of tactile for reasonable money.

Regards your effects, I am not saying you are not applying layers to work together. The point I was saying is that very few people are making effects made to work in a manner with other types of effects that are active in similar operating scenarios. So like I mentioned with the various bumps/impacts/vibrations. These are all adaptable individual effects but I have made them that they combine better with each other when they are active together. How many people have done that with all the primary "ROAD" effects?

It would be much easier for you to show what you use for those effects as an example and I will use that example to explain the differences in the two approaches.

 

[metalnwood]

Thanks for the offer, I pretty much have what I want so I am happy to leave it there.

 

[Mr Latte]

Thanks for the offer, I pretty much have what I want so I am happy to leave it there.

Yes when it comes to it, people seem shy to share what they use themselves.
For you these are not important to run in pedals or to have them operate in stereo.

I would rather develop good effects for them that let the user determine what they apply themselves or if they want to experience them in mono. However the main thing is, if they are developed for a specific unit, then the only way the user will get to feel them as intended to feel, is to use the units they were developed on.

So then.....
The offer will be left on the table for anyone else that wants to show what they apply for and how they use...

Road Bumps
Road Vibrations
Road Impacts
Road Textures

 

[metalnwood]

Yes when it comes to it, people seem shy to share what they use themselves.

lt is not that I am shy, we are after different things and you asked for people to engage so I did. I wasn't really here to debate this way or that and as you have already stated why you don't prefer this, continuing is not useful when we both have something we like.

 

[Mr Latte]

lt is not that I am shy, we are after different things and you asked for people to engage so I did. I wasn't really here to debate this way or that and as you have already stated why you don't prefer this, continuing is not useful when we both have something we like.

No, you were basically saying in the other thread, you don't like stereo effects you tried on your pedals in the past. So I have asked to see and understand what it was you were using for example with the ROAD based effects as those are one of the more enjoyed effects by people even in a seat.

You say you don't want your tactile doing random things and that you want the feedback to be valuable. Since when is the ROAD effects random or not able to offer useful feedback or indeed an excellent level of enjoyment?

What you can't do is determine based on what you tried to the approach I have which I suspect is rather different to what others usually do. Also a lot of peoples stereo effects I have seen, do not actually operate that well in stereo with the settings they have applied and as I said, often they have very similar frequencies for these different ROAD effects.

How then does a user feel something unique from each one, if they are using similar frequencies? This is also tied into the hardware they use and as we often see people with budget tactile, repeatedly using the best feeling frequencies @(30-60) over and over again.

These are factors I wanted to cover how/why the approach I will share and with using a unit like the BDS model improves on that but your not even willing to show what you use for these, even in the seat anyways.

 

[metalnwood]

No, you were basically saying in the other thread, you don't like stereo effects you tried on your pedals in the past. So I have asked to see and understand what it was you were using for example with the ROAD based effects as those are one of the more enjoyed effects by people even in a seat.

What you can't do is determine based on what you tried to the approach I have which I suspect is rather different to what others usually do. Also a lot of peoples stereo effects I have seen, do not actually operate that well in stereo with the settings they have applied and as I said, often they have very similar frequencies for these different ROAD effects.

How then does a user feel something unique from each one, if they are using similar frequencies? This is also tied into the hardware they use and as we often see people most often with budget tactile, repeatedly using the best feeling frequencies @(30-50) over and over again.

These are factors I wanted to cover how/why the approach I will share improves on that but your not even willing to show what you use for these, even in the seat anyways.

Great. Good luck getting people to engage with you if they see all you are going to go on like this.

Ps, I don't know where you got stereo effects from or why this was the subtext for all of this without telling me about it.
Also ps, I told you what works for me because you asked and I didn't compare approaches, I just said what works for me in my racing and tried to answer anything you followed up on with me.

In the seat and elsewhere i use Sierses effects. They are the best effects around and in the discord you created for tactile profiles are the only ones used by everyone now (except maybe one person). Yours were good at the time, what can I say.

 

[Mr Latte]

Great. Good luck getting people to engage with you if they see all you are going to go on like this.

Ps, I don't know where you got stereo effects from or why this was the subtext for all of this without telling me about it.
Also ps, I told you what works for me because you asked and I didn't compare approaches, I just said what works for me in my racing and tried to answer anything you followed up on with me.

In the seat and elsewhere i use Sierses effects. They are the best effects around and in the discord you created for tactile profiles are the only ones used by everyone now (except maybe one person). Yours were good at the time, what can I say.

It's not a drama, some will want stereo effects in the seat and the pedals.
You are the one refusing to show what you use, allow any comparisons or help define why the effects you use are so good....

I have the same feeling, I don't want it to do more than what i have which is rpm on both brake and throttle and lock on brake.
More than that does not feel like it adds to the experience and as the brake is the one of the three most important inputs in the car I actually dont want it doing random things when I am using it, if I use it for feedback I want the feedback to be valuable.
I love all the other effects coming from other parts of the rig and I think that is where the other effects should be.
I could put a lot on the pedals but none of them at this point will make me appreciate what i have any more than i do, contrary, it often doesn't feel right.

It is no surprise what effects you use and oh maybe you are not allowed to show them eh? Are they better, who decides what better is and what was the last effects I made for PC sims you tried?

Either way, I am not threatened or concerned, this is a different approach it will give people options and they wont have to go elsewhere to get it. People will use what effects they want or like and thats fine with me.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Great. Good luck getting people to engage with you if they see all you are going to go on like this.

Some things never change.