New Tactile Hardware 2023 / 2024

Hi @Mr Latte
Douk audio M4 is paired with a 24V4.5A power supply.

Since yesterday, I've been testing with a 24V 10A power supply and it seems to be working better. I didn't get any automatic cut-out from the amp.....I'm continuing my tests to make sure it works.
This amp stuff is really complicated. When it doesn't work, I've always thought the problem came from the amp, whereas a 24V 10A power supply instead of 24V 4.5A seems to make the difference.
Douk audio doesn't provide a sufficient package
 
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Hi @Mr Latte
Douk audio M4 is paired with a 24V4.5A power supply.

Since yesterday, I've been testing with a 24V 10A power supply and it seems to be working better. I didn't get any automatic cut-out from the amp.....I'm continuing my tests to make sure it works.
This amp stuff is really complicated. When it doesn't work, I've always thought the problem came from the amp, whereas a 24V 10A power supply instead of 24V 4.5A seems to make the difference.
Douk audio doesn't provide a sufficient package

Good feedback thanks...
Hopefully the 10A is more stable with what you using. For Simhub, see if have it set to GSG mode and only at 50% in one of the settings. Maybe if no good, removing the hardware from windows device manager and re-install it and Simhub?
 
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@Mr Latte

my old setting was as follows
overall gain = 50%.
sound card volume = ON
amp volume = full

since today, I've been using this setting
global gain = 80%
generated soud gain = ON
amp volume = about 70%

I'm continuing my tests
 
@Mr Latte

my old setting was as follows
overall gain = 50%.
sound card volume = ON
amp volume = full

since today, I've been using this setting
global gain = 80%
generated soud gain = ON
amp volume = about 70%

I'm continuing my tests
Depends on the amp, you may get a linear increase but other amps most of the variation in power output could be in the last 20-30 or so percent.

Ideally I would try to avoid either the soundcard or amp at max output. This new more balanced approach may be better for your setup...

50% is a good baseline for Simhub but not something that has to be used. Variations in amp/soundcards with variations of different tactile hardware.

You are experiencing a power shortfall it seems. Others may also apply additional EQ or DSP and its good to also avoid hardware being overdriven.
 
Looking at some old notes I had taken from maybe 2 years ago
I will share more about the two sound modes and things I discovered....

IIRC with using two SoundBlaster X3 soundcards
These were connected via a pro audio plugin within a DAW to measure the levels of each card. I placed triple layers of effects within a group folder and then tried different combinations. I wont go into all the details/findings but results were noted for PEAK and RMS output.



No.1
With Simhub @ 100% global and the group folder volume @ 100%
CSV -15dB
GSG -15dB


No.2
With Simhub @ 100% global and the group folder volume @ 50%
Measured PEAK output was
CSV -19dB
GSG -17.5dB


No.3
With Simhub @ 50% global and the group folder volume @ 100%
Measured PEAK output was
CSV -26.7 dB
GSG -26.6 dB


No.4
With Simhub @ 50% global and the group folder volume @ 50%
Measured PEAK output was
CSV - 27dB
GSG -27.9dB



Different Scenarios / Findings
* CSV / When Simhub global volume was at 50% & group folder volume at 50%

* GSG / When Simhub global volume was at 50% the group folder volume was only required to be at 39% to match in output level.

In this scenario with Simhub global only at 50%
GSG mode was @ 3dB higher in output.

Based on these tests at that time, I seen the largest difference between test No.1 and No.3

When we compare global volume at 100% Vs 50%. This appeared to be @ 12dB but in test scenario No.2 CSG mode was marginally stronger but in test No.4 it was marginally lower to CSV.


Overview
Maybe things have changed with various updates to Simhub since then....
I have raised a point that, a certain budget soundcard some companies sell with their packages (Slip Angle) as one example and other places that promote within guides (GV).


What they each do is their own business, I am just using for reference.

We see that particular card offer a lower level of output to the Startech 7.1 card so variations in card outputs also play a contributing factor. Nobody seemed to be highlighting this at that time or maybe even now, but all I can say is I am just sharing what the results of my own tests showed.

The Startech 7.1 card measured quite close to the X3 but some differences with improved lower bass roll off were seen in certain tests but it may be marginal how each of those cards perform as two options I personally recommend for Simhub. This is not a comparison musically of each card, or of course all their features, but more on each units output levels.


Potential For Large Differences In Output
So a combination of using a lesser performing card that is 2-3 dB lower in its output at the same volume settings. This combined with also the differences with possible settings shared above. In particular (No.1 Vs No.3) as potential user scenarios.

It is then possible, two people with the same amps and same transducers/exciters but with different soundcards and Simhub settings. They could have very different levels of output within the region of upto @15dB. This is one reason, why I personally feel it makes sense to recommend a specific card and settings to use. With that then its easier for people to share their profiles if of course they also follow similar installation approaches with the hardware.


Why 50% Setting As Recommendation
The reason I first preferred users applied 50% global volume was to try and reduce the potential of people damaging their hardware. Caution was needed in scenarios where users may have amplifiers that are beyond in output potential what the transducer/exciter is rated for. Some will just crank everything to 11 because, heck they can or they just don't know any better.

In the other scenario, you have the opposite problem were more power would be a benefit so the amp was not running constantly at its max potential which we should be trying to avoid. It makes sense to try to use more of the soundcards potential output level.


Personal observation.....
I get an impression the BST 1 is not the most efficient unit.
If you look into Parts Express website and see amp packages with this unit that they themselves sell. The lowest rated unit I came across was 75w per channel. Others they have are offering approx 100W or more.

The M4 or what appears as a similar model based on that (Slip Angle) has less at @ 4x 50w per channel. Yes they now also offer a 6x channel amp with 6x50W per channel and a built in soundcard. No mention that these ratings are RMS (unlikely or would be stated)...

Their does appear to be some reliability reports of users having problems with these newest 6 channel amps after a period of time with the Slip Angle kit, but it's not something I can confirm.

All I can do is highlight that, their might be a reason Parts Express have amp/transducer kits with amps offering more than 50W wattage per channel for the BST 1 transducer.

Hope this was of some help...
 
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UPDATE
For the last three or so weeks, I have been pushing the BDS units to the limits and worked on creating specific effects with them. So far, no faults whatsoever with excessive usage of low-high frequencies and scenarios of multiple effects operational. Even with 3-4 hour long test sessions, at the moment they are working great.

Need to highlight this again....
I just cannot believe how good these units are feeling with the price that they are....

Know I previously mentioned their abilitiy with low frequencies but ahhh man......
What it means in simple terms is that, due to their operational abilities, it opens up the possibilities and potential with building more advanced effects than could be done in the past with the most popular models.


Why?
Certain effects require the usage of specific frequencies, based on the felt characteristics and sensations those frequencies generate. Also what is very relevant is how the used transducer/exciter/shaker is able to produce and deliver these desired frequencies.


Take Note
I am not criticising people that have went with what were or still are popular choices in budget costing hardware but lets just be honest here and highlight the issues we have to make do with.

This limitation and scenario, is a fundamental reason my preference to lean against the installation of different budget transducers, well certainly as being a good way to do things, now in 2024.

Each unit/model has differences in their operation and generation of the various frequencies. Also, if chosen models on a persons rig/seat have the common problem of limited frequency response, then from the offset as an installation only so much can be achieved from the effects.

So let me just be clear in my view on this...
What can be achieved with most typical budget hardware is already restricted and well behind "the potential" an installation with multiple BDS could offer, both in the quality and varation in feel with effects it can produce.

This will be highlighted in the frequencies and effects a user with such uses. Relying much more on repeated usage of the (best feeling frequencies) due to the limitations the hardware has. It's the same problem we have had from the beginning and one that needs to be adressed if we seek to deliver improved tactile....


How BDS Exclusive Effects Will Differ
The common issue is,,, that the vast majority of budget units people own will not produce with much detail or felt sensation frequencies below 20Hz. These "infra sonic frequencies" can play a crucial part from an effects creators potential in what they might achieve. Not just me btw but these are vital ingredients we need in applying as a means for fundamental frequencies.


What is also needed is not just adequete but really good performance above the 60Hz range and beyond 80Hz, the reason is the same. That again, certain effects require the felt characteristics and sensations those frequencies produce. Additionally these frequencies can be combined with lower bass frequencies to apply (musically matched octaves) as they too play a crucial part from an effects creators potential in what they might achieve.


Bypass The Compromises
So impressed I have been with this BDS unit and in fairness, this impression has been a lasting one as I have delved deep into effects creation with these, as you will begin to see.

Applying everything in my experience or that I have self taught myself regards making effects. Also not seeking to just follow/copy/rip off other peoples work or effects... This is personal, in the context that, it is my own journey, with my own approach and methods, seeking to do something that is different...

Its also for me, a self test, in finding out......
Just how good the potential, regards effects I can make with this new exciter unit, really are....



RACEBASS - Home Brewed Tactile

So what is different with these?
I had a look and noticed, that from these new BDS effects, not one of them at the moment only operates within that 30Hz-60Hz sweetspot which most budget tactile units rely on. Or in most peoples cases will be the frequencies they mainly use. This is an explanation why also I will not give support to people trying to use these effects on other hardware, they are built on, and to be experienced on the intended product. Only that way can the person get to experience them as they are made to be enjoyed.


Mult-Layering
Firstly as an effect, it has tiers based on its level of activity, so that its feel variers from low-high amount of slip. This is a good approach with effects that are continious or can be active for longer periods of time. The user can adjust the indvidual volumes for each effects layer, to create their own personalised "effects mix" to better suit their installation, preferences or mood.


Wheelsip as an individual effect seems to get more attention than maybe it deserves regards what it can bring in immersion.


Matched Effect Combos
Each effect is made to compliment certain others. So for example with something like "Wheelslip" I do not just have that as an individual effect. I also have been developing different feeling sensations for "G-Forces" and "Road Texture" as these are examples of other effects that can relate to the same on-track or operational scenario whilst driving...

I did not want to have scenarios operating with just single effect activity, using one but then ignoring others. I want to utilise if possible, all of what Simhub has to offer.

Where I find multiple effects also active at the same time.
These "other relevent effects" are combined and made with their own specific usage of frequencies that in most cases maintain a musical relationship so they may better work together.

The goal being each of the effects are offering their own character and felt sensations but now complimenting each other in a way that maybe hasnt been done as successful before?

Now a user may feel, the slip sensation, but with it, they can feel the lateral G-Force load, they feel the decelleration G-Force load, they feel, the sensation of a decrease in speed from the road texture. With all of these you may learn to adapt to the cars handling better, to feel more of what the car is doing and it being more engaging based on your user inputs.

So if desired, no longer relying on a single activity (Wheelslip) to represent a track scenario/situation. Instead, as track scenarios that often do include other additional effects.

Why shouldn't we seek to make use of them and find ways for users, to distrubute them over the seat and pedals. The indivdual user can decide how or which to use and apply but my goal is to have good effect options ready, to suit different users preferences too.


*Notice how low these frequencies are and with multiple layers of more dynamic operation in its feel from low-high values .


One of the difficulties is that G-Forces need very low frequencies to feel right or operate well and the struggles with most budget tactile being limited, they simply cannot do that. This I believe is why you will not find most other peoples effects bringing this approach. The budget tactile hardware most people have will not be able to make it work properly.

For me it was important that this is also true for all four of the "Road" based effects.
So each has been made, to bring its own response but combined with others, offering something much more involving for the cars activity.

This has only been successfully possible with the BDS unit as I cannot achieve with other budget priced units the unique feel and operational range the BDS offers. This is why I find it should become a unit for everyone interested in tactile to consider.


Dynamic output based on small to larger activity and then combined with other "Road" effects for a much more enjoyable and lively sensation.


With these specially made effects, I expect to soon be delivering something much more inclusive and with the stereo operation, that the effects themselves apply being realised in both seat and pedals.


Here are the current effects I am quite happy with so far, and I feel perhaps are amongst my finest efforts to date.

The progress over these few weeks with on/off creation of the effects has been excellent. It helps prove to myself how well the utilisation of octaves/partial octaves can be applied for multiple effects operational and even with multiple layers each.

Private initial testing of these with some others has already began but they are coming gents...

Also work ongoing with other effects too.
Sometime soon, with their own individual thread to discuss and test, open for the community.

The next steps is working with people looking to give these a try and putting into practice, ways we can install them/ Also to experiment in ways we may direct various effects to different channels and body regions.
 
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Hello @Mr Latte
I have 2 icusbaudio7d sound cards.

How can I view the parameters of each sound card in the "xear audio center" software provided?

I have to unplug 1 of the 2 cards to be able to modify certain parameters with the xear software, it doesn't seem possible to switch between the 2 sound cards to modify certain parameters

what is your solution ?
Thanks
 
Hello @Mr Latte
I have 2 icusbaudio7d sound cards.

How can I view the parameters of each sound card in the "xear audio center" software provided?

I have to unplug 1 of the 2 cards to be able to modify certain parameters with the xear software, it doesn't seem possible to switch between the 2 sound cards to modify certain parameters

what is your solution ?
Thanks
Don't have two of these myself but try to connect 1 at a time, configure it within its own software or Windows settings.

Settings for each cards id within windows should be applied/saved when you then connect multiple cards.
 
Effects Update:

Work continues behind the scenes...
For me, building and combining multiple effects to complement each other has really been enjoyable.

Discovering ways with creating effects for this BDS model and it just really shines with its low bass activity. These effects just make the car come alive and constantly varying in feel.

More progress to be found and while these feel good, the end-goal will be to determine how they are optomised when placed to different channels. I also want to have testing done with separating the "Mono" sensations from the "Stereo" and this to also reduce the number of effects being applied to the stereo based units.

 
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Taking Immersion Further!

After another set of recent test sessions, I have made further improvements to these specific effects below...

Perhaps few others may use these types of effects much?

Yet I find, in how I apply sensations for them, they are vital elements to the overall immersion. Such senations may also not be available on the various motion systems that offer their own tactile feedback.

Here is an example of what I would describe as, my own creativity and artistic impressions, being applied to the role/operations of these specific effects....

  • Simulated Road Texture
  • Acceleration G-Forces
  • Deceleration G-Forces
  • Speed

My main focus with these being combined to operate together is to achieve changable felt sensations for different speeds. So that slower 1st or 2nd gear corners feel different to that of 3rd or 4th gear. This includes scenarios, such as braking/acceleration for unique feel going in and out of corners. Also, that when approaching max speeds, we get an additional percieved feeling from the chassis/tyres.

With Monza as an example for these in operation...

Decelerating from the main straight to enter into "Variante Del Rettfilo" feels very different to exiting "Variante Ascari" and accelerating out of "Curva Parabolica".




Once again, I am utilising a wider frequency response than typical effects, from low to high frequencies (3Hz-111Hz) within these effects and continuing my approach of applying musically matched partial octaves. The BDS just continue to impress me with how they can deliver felt sensations that just may not be possible on other budget transducers/exciters. The combination of the BDS with quality effects, such as these...

I think, as a combo, they might just be on a different level. ;)

Need to add to these, one more additional element scenario.
I am working on using the "Speed" effect, so it will be utilised to represent "inertia" with extra feel in lower speed scenario and with acceleration/deceleration being applied.

Have been finding these effects options as really enjoyable sensations to explore with some creativity, that can be felt repeatedly during a lap on various tracks.


Improved Learning & Discoveries
How different cars apply different G-Forces and rates of acceleration. I have now discovered it is best to apply these desired (artistic impressions) "this way" and no longer as possible elements within the RPM like I had tried in the past. Also, discovering that acceleration based G-Force can offer additional sensations to certain kerbs was an interesting find too.

While these sensations feel good even in pedals. It will be possible to differently apply acceleration/deceleration G-Force elements to seat/pedals. Having more focus perhaps with deceleration in the pedals and aceleration in the seat. All of course user preferences I suppose and built into how the effects can be operated or enjoyed with different installations users may have.

On that point, I will say these effects should also be superb additions for anyone that has motorised belt tensioners and is something I intend to purchase in the future...
 
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So next on the list....

To incorporate steering based sensations that are applied with steering wheel inputs, offering positional feedback in stereo over the L/R tactile.

Important that this as an effect works successfully in harmony with the "Mono" based speed sensations that are operational during low-high speed scenarios, and when either deceleration or acceleration G-Forces are active.

The aim is to have this avoiding any conflict with those effects, but bringing additional sensations that also operate dynamically, based on the applied amount of steering input and vary regards the speed or load on the car being generated.

Applying:
  • Lateral G-Force
  • Speed Curving (Corners Only)​

The target is to achieve with tactile effects, a form of synergy in motion with the different types of G-Forces and varying speeds. Not just have an effect do something, but have multiple effects become part of a bigger/better and more involving experience.

I think, these are excellent examples in different effects activities that are operational at similar times and are quite a challenge to make work well together. Certainly I beleive a scenario where it may be important/beneficial to have musically applied frequencies within each of the multi-layer effects. To bring felt sensations beyond what limited tones or basic, simplified effects will manage?

More work to be done....

Flow

Synergy

Harmony

Perhaps, this is a bit of a Unicorn with tactile.
"something that is highly desirable but difficult to find or obtain"
 
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