New Tactile Hardware 2023 / 2024
- Thread starter Mr Latte
- Start date
Mr Latte
Premium
Wanted to ask owners of the HPR for a little personal feedback...
I assume currently or since release most people that own it will be using it in the official manner via P1000 pedals or with the P2000 haptic controller.
So please tell me.....
With the unit restricted to a single frequency (per haptic reactor) what frequency within it's operating range (10-50Hz) have people ended up using or found suits :
A) The arrangement of different effects they use
B) Just using it for ABS role
I see people stating what % of volume they apply and this will vary on the pedals installed. Users preferences and also depending on what frequency they are using.
Yet even in this video above while RBM goes into a lot of detail and mentions he uses only @30% but went higher with P2000 pedals (additional mount). It's not clear what frequency he used. I do recall in one of his other videos for setting up the product in Simhub he showed these settings, but I don't know what he personally ended up using.
Clutch 10Hz / Brake 13Hz / Throttle 10Hz
I see others in comments stating they use 50% but again, what frequency?
Boosted Media cover the HPR briefly in this video and stating in a future video they will compare the HPR to the Simucube haptic pedal solution. It seems at least 3 of the leading sim racing channels offering "their views" state that both feel quite similar.
"Will" also made reference to one of the limitations of the HPR based on it restricted to the same frequency (which this thread will cover in detail). As mentioned earlier, this makes it difficult to get the best sensation for an effect like ABS but then also to have it work well with other effects on the same pedal, yes you agree?
This is why I am asking owners that have used it for some time to share "what Hz" they use and "which effects" they use with it?
So help me out, as based on any feedback from owners. Then I can apply that volume/frequency to the HPR for my ongoing tests and to compare the HPR with these exciters.
I assume currently or since release most people that own it will be using it in the official manner via P1000 pedals or with the P2000 haptic controller.
So please tell me.....
With the unit restricted to a single frequency (per haptic reactor) what frequency within it's operating range (10-50Hz) have people ended up using or found suits :
A) The arrangement of different effects they use
B) Just using it for ABS role
I see people stating what % of volume they apply and this will vary on the pedals installed. Users preferences and also depending on what frequency they are using.
Yet even in this video above while RBM goes into a lot of detail and mentions he uses only @30% but went higher with P2000 pedals (additional mount). It's not clear what frequency he used. I do recall in one of his other videos for setting up the product in Simhub he showed these settings, but I don't know what he personally ended up using.
Clutch 10Hz / Brake 13Hz / Throttle 10Hz
I see others in comments stating they use 50% but again, what frequency?
Boosted Media cover the HPR briefly in this video and stating in a future video they will compare the HPR to the Simucube haptic pedal solution. It seems at least 3 of the leading sim racing channels offering "their views" state that both feel quite similar.
"Will" also made reference to one of the limitations of the HPR based on it restricted to the same frequency (which this thread will cover in detail). As mentioned earlier, this makes it difficult to get the best sensation for an effect like ABS but then also to have it work well with other effects on the same pedal, yes you agree?
This is why I am asking owners that have used it for some time to share "what Hz" they use and "which effects" they use with it?
So help me out, as based on any feedback from owners. Then I can apply that volume/frequency to the HPR for my ongoing tests and to compare the HPR with these exciters.
Last edited:
D
Deleted member 197115
-
Deleted member 197115
There was a discussion on this , and another one, sounds like generated sound gain might be better for avoiding clipping.Hello
On simhub "output tuning" is it better to use "sound card volume" or "generated sound gain" ?
Thanks
Mr Latte
Premium
Will look into reading thanks.
@Andrew_WOT - Linked Discord Discussion
Not wanting to further discuss here in continued posts or detail but.....
I recall some of this and points raised by some members.
Not one single manufacturer that sells tactile amplifier combinations had specifications that related to what "Pitspeed" stated was required/neccessary for better tactile experiences and with the approach he presented to people.
IIRC at one point telling people they should be using 300W amps to power budget 50W transducers. While some manufacturers actually state not to use an amp beyond a recommended rating that may damage the make/model of transducer being used.
To my understanding what his method represented regards amps was inline with how "white noise" (all frequencies) being measured/bench-tested on amplifiers, This to determine performance and replicate scenario of amp when using full range audio. We are not stressing an amp in that manner or doing that with tactile. The vast majority of people he was talking too, are using budget tactile. Likely they are using @50Hz in variation of frequencies with the hardware they own. That is very different to an amplifier used to power speakers and expected to run continuously full range audio 20Hz-20,000Hz. So the requirements or demands on the amplifier should be quite different in both scenarios and his proposition on amps, not really relevant?
He also debatted with other people often, yet struggled to understand you cannot EQ frequencies in the same manner or level of control just by using effects volumes in Simhub. Compared to the usage of parametric EQ, which determines how the source frequencies for each channel can be controlled prior to amplification. The benefits of such will depend on the effects, how the users hardware is installed and the operational characteristics with the hardware used. To me its a tuning or user preference aid that can be implmented.
Hardware Issues / Factors?
Is possible that Windows/Drivers/Motherboard/Soundcard could all, on different systems present potential issues with SCV or GSG? Or potentially PC systems with other hardware, interference/crosstalk/distortion who knows?
Simhub Issues / Effects Control Factors?
We do know that Simhub enables a user to stack and stack effects. So internally it has to control/limit the combined output of all effects with each channel. Doing this to avoid possible distortion or clipping of the effects.
Again, I don't recall seeing an issue with the output itself, when doing this as I'd expect and believe Wotever knows what he is doing with functions his software offers. I did not see an issue with effects volume set to 100% neither but again this was something "Pitspeed" told people was a major performance related factor. IIRC as this is 2 years ago, he refused to share his own effects and Simhub settings for analysis or comparisons.
Different frequencies based on the hardware used will require different effect volumes to get a desired sensation. My advice now, use what you want guys, I have highlighted that different soundcards are a relevant factor to the signal level of dB being output and bass roll off can be improved with some cards. Yet, here again IIRC "Pitspeed" told people to use any card as if it wasn't a factor. So really, while I will share my perspective and own findings. I don't care anymore what people decide to do or use themselves.
I did (1-2 year ago) compare 2x Soundblaster X3 soundcards with every channel connected to my X32 audio interface. So all 7 channels on each card with one card set to SCV / GSG option. I then duplicated Simhub effects and settings to each card....
It made sense to test both options via the same make/model of soundcard. I can't recall everything I tried or looked into but I don't recall finding anything major. I would have expected when doing this I used various professional audio plugins for metering/loudness and spectrum analysis, but yeah for certain it's possible I could have missed something too.
I do see more potential issue with a soundcard set to 100% but I believe the output is the same in dB if either is applied. SCV 50 / Effect 100 or SCV 100 / Effect 50. Yet a budget soundcard may not output the cleanest signal when set to its max output which is then being amplified. So to me it makes sense to have a balance and apply more amplification (assuming the amplifier should have additional power than the transducer rated peak wattage). This way neither the soundcard nor the amp has to be set to its maximum levels.
Simhub Effects / Hardware Limitations
We cant really keep stacking different effects onto a unit/channel and then still expect that unit to perform as well. Having many more generated effects or effects layers, the used effects contain is something most soon discover with experimenting. "The Less Is More" factor,right?
I recall some of this and points raised by some members.
Not one single manufacturer that sells tactile amplifier combinations had specifications that related to what "Pitspeed" stated was required/neccessary for better tactile experiences and with the approach he presented to people.
IIRC at one point telling people they should be using 300W amps to power budget 50W transducers. While some manufacturers actually state not to use an amp beyond a recommended rating that may damage the make/model of transducer being used.
To my understanding what his method represented regards amps was inline with how "white noise" (all frequencies) being measured/bench-tested on amplifiers, This to determine performance and replicate scenario of amp when using full range audio. We are not stressing an amp in that manner or doing that with tactile. The vast majority of people he was talking too, are using budget tactile. Likely they are using @50Hz in variation of frequencies with the hardware they own. That is very different to an amplifier used to power speakers and expected to run continuously full range audio 20Hz-20,000Hz. So the requirements or demands on the amplifier should be quite different in both scenarios and his proposition on amps, not really relevant?
He also debatted with other people often, yet struggled to understand you cannot EQ frequencies in the same manner or level of control just by using effects volumes in Simhub. Compared to the usage of parametric EQ, which determines how the source frequencies for each channel can be controlled prior to amplification. The benefits of such will depend on the effects, how the users hardware is installed and the operational characteristics with the hardware used. To me its a tuning or user preference aid that can be implmented.
Hardware Issues / Factors?
Is possible that Windows/Drivers/Motherboard/Soundcard could all, on different systems present potential issues with SCV or GSG? Or potentially PC systems with other hardware, interference/crosstalk/distortion who knows?
Simhub Issues / Effects Control Factors?
We do know that Simhub enables a user to stack and stack effects. So internally it has to control/limit the combined output of all effects with each channel. Doing this to avoid possible distortion or clipping of the effects.
Again, I don't recall seeing an issue with the output itself, when doing this as I'd expect and believe Wotever knows what he is doing with functions his software offers. I did not see an issue with effects volume set to 100% neither but again this was something "Pitspeed" told people was a major performance related factor. IIRC as this is 2 years ago, he refused to share his own effects and Simhub settings for analysis or comparisons.
Different frequencies based on the hardware used will require different effect volumes to get a desired sensation. My advice now, use what you want guys, I have highlighted that different soundcards are a relevant factor to the signal level of dB being output and bass roll off can be improved with some cards. Yet, here again IIRC "Pitspeed" told people to use any card as if it wasn't a factor. So really, while I will share my perspective and own findings. I don't care anymore what people decide to do or use themselves.
I did (1-2 year ago) compare 2x Soundblaster X3 soundcards with every channel connected to my X32 audio interface. So all 7 channels on each card with one card set to SCV / GSG option. I then duplicated Simhub effects and settings to each card....
It made sense to test both options via the same make/model of soundcard. I can't recall everything I tried or looked into but I don't recall finding anything major. I would have expected when doing this I used various professional audio plugins for metering/loudness and spectrum analysis, but yeah for certain it's possible I could have missed something too.
I do see more potential issue with a soundcard set to 100% but I believe the output is the same in dB if either is applied. SCV 50 / Effect 100 or SCV 100 / Effect 50. Yet a budget soundcard may not output the cleanest signal when set to its max output which is then being amplified. So to me it makes sense to have a balance and apply more amplification (assuming the amplifier should have additional power than the transducer rated peak wattage). This way neither the soundcard nor the amp has to be set to its maximum levels.
Simhub Effects / Hardware Limitations
We cant really keep stacking different effects onto a unit/channel and then still expect that unit to perform as well. Having many more generated effects or effects layers, the used effects contain is something most soon discover with experimenting. "The Less Is More" factor,right?
Do Consider?
The quality of the soundcard used and it's performance may contribute more, than what Simhub soundcard mode is being selected? How beneficial a better soundcard may be, may depend on the frequency abilities and performance of the tactile hardware the user implements.
SCV Vs GSG - Simple Solution!
The reality is that it's a very simple thing to switch, right. So if someone wants to try one option or the other. Or finds any noticeable benefits then they can use what they want.
Good Luck
1st Gear Not R
I am not planning to dwell on Simhub or hardware issues here, or past debates and differences in opinions. Other threads people can raise such queries they have on these forums with a collection of members having a good grasp on tactile matters. This thread is not really for that or user guidelines with such.
I may offer advice in points I make and please ignore such if you want, but I now have a different stance on things. How others want to use or apply Simhub is really their choice and people will do what they want anyways.
So lets keep focus or questions "here" related to the aim and goals of the thread...
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Mr Latte
Premium
Spent an evening modifying some effects I had worked on last year. Great little selection so far but still ongoing evaluation.
Multi-Effect Scenarios?
I think, looking at what others do my approach/perspective with effects seems a bit different. Also the method I started using in late 2022 regards frequencies being used.
So I wanted certain effects to be tailored to work in tandem with others that operate at similar times. This, appears to help create a more engrossing level of fun in felt response.
An example would be pedals and with ABS becoming the new "must have".
Going by what some of the leading Youtubers showed or mentioned in their videos with perhaps not relying on other effects or not able to get fully satisfactory sensations from other effects to suit?
ABS The One And Only?
Nah, certainly not what I want...
So I approach this more along the lines of, okay so what effects are operational in certain scenarios, err "like braking". Then why is it so common to rely or focus on one particular effect for that scenario?
Shared Example
Like in many things, with increased experience, more efficiency becomes the norm. The majority of these effects highlighted below, are nicely refined using only 2-3 layers and I think at max still only 5.
This helps reduce the congestion on the channels when we seek more advanced effects but still wanting to run a good number of different options. I wanted to bring more than what standard/single layer type effects offer but do that still maintaining simplistic control.
Achieving that isn't so easy with multiple effects and avoiding a scenario of conflicting frequencies. It's one of the reasons all these effects apply musically matched frequencies too. Enabling a nice blend together. This way, I find it avoids knocking or odd feeling sensations when several effects are operational on the same unit.
It’s All Gravy
You can have the best tactile hardware, you can have a mass of hardware installed but I strongly, still believe the effects are the sauce.
With this approach I worked on. It means created effects can work reasonably well on a single budget unit. Yet of course with the ideas I have, they can be creatively developed for designated "body regions" that will work on multi-exciter seat configurations and bring something extra when used that way.
Effects Upgradability
So finding effects that can feel great on budget hardware that's excellent.
I found that with the musical approach in application of frequencies. It means I can easily place additional layers for specific usage/role units.
Oh you've got some nice PRO Tactile Hardware. Great, so how about some extra low bass extension or higher frequency detailing elements in overtones/harmonics sir!
Happy Feet!
Been a while since I had tactile running, excellent fun as I spent laps and laps just engrossed. I reckon it will be interesting to properly test the HPR unit, using these multilayer based effects, that contain higher frequencies past a lowly 50Hz too.
Anyways, quite chuffed with how they felt so far and my feet certainly enjoyed them. All tests above were focused at the feet / heels.
So even in this example, just to showcase possibilities. Plenty of other options to choose or have activated for pedal related immersion.
*Tongue in cheek but is it fair to say, so much focus is on ABS and even (a basic single/fixed frequency response) for brake pedals like with the Simagic HPR causing a "wow,wow,wow" frenzy in the sim community and by Youtube channels, right? Can this thread bring much more, or better immersion with pedals than that?
I will have to investigate more what the Simucube Pedals currently bring with their own effects and options, just for reference.
So far it looks awkward if a cheap Haptic Motor that can be installed to various pedals has leading sim hardware reviewers saying "they feel kinda similar". Still I suppose early days yet with the Simucube pedals.
Multi-Effect Scenarios?
I think, looking at what others do my approach/perspective with effects seems a bit different. Also the method I started using in late 2022 regards frequencies being used.
So I wanted certain effects to be tailored to work in tandem with others that operate at similar times. This, appears to help create a more engrossing level of fun in felt response.
An example would be pedals and with ABS becoming the new "must have".
Going by what some of the leading Youtubers showed or mentioned in their videos with perhaps not relying on other effects or not able to get fully satisfactory sensations from other effects to suit?
ABS The One And Only?
Nah, certainly not what I want...
So I approach this more along the lines of, okay so what effects are operational in certain scenarios, err "like braking". Then why is it so common to rely or focus on one particular effect for that scenario?
Shared Example
Like in many things, with increased experience, more efficiency becomes the norm. The majority of these effects highlighted below, are nicely refined using only 2-3 layers and I think at max still only 5.
This helps reduce the congestion on the channels when we seek more advanced effects but still wanting to run a good number of different options. I wanted to bring more than what standard/single layer type effects offer but do that still maintaining simplistic control.
Achieving that isn't so easy with multiple effects and avoiding a scenario of conflicting frequencies. It's one of the reasons all these effects apply musically matched frequencies too. Enabling a nice blend together. This way, I find it avoids knocking or odd feeling sensations when several effects are operational on the same unit.
It’s All Gravy
You can have the best tactile hardware, you can have a mass of hardware installed but I strongly, still believe the effects are the sauce.
With this approach I worked on. It means created effects can work reasonably well on a single budget unit. Yet of course with the ideas I have, they can be creatively developed for designated "body regions" that will work on multi-exciter seat configurations and bring something extra when used that way.
Effects Upgradability
So finding effects that can feel great on budget hardware that's excellent.
I found that with the musical approach in application of frequencies. It means I can easily place additional layers for specific usage/role units.
Oh you've got some nice PRO Tactile Hardware. Great, so how about some extra low bass extension or higher frequency detailing elements in overtones/harmonics sir!
Happy Feet!
Been a while since I had tactile running, excellent fun as I spent laps and laps just engrossed. I reckon it will be interesting to properly test the HPR unit, using these multilayer based effects, that contain higher frequencies past a lowly 50Hz too.
Anyways, quite chuffed with how they felt so far and my feet certainly enjoyed them. All tests above were focused at the feet / heels.
So even in this example, just to showcase possibilities. Plenty of other options to choose or have activated for pedal related immersion.
*Tongue in cheek but is it fair to say, so much focus is on ABS and even (a basic single/fixed frequency response) for brake pedals like with the Simagic HPR causing a "wow,wow,wow" frenzy in the sim community and by Youtube channels, right? Can this thread bring much more, or better immersion with pedals than that?
I will have to investigate more what the Simucube Pedals currently bring with their own effects and options, just for reference.
So far it looks awkward if a cheap Haptic Motor that can be installed to various pedals has leading sim hardware reviewers saying "they feel kinda similar". Still I suppose early days yet with the Simucube pedals.
Last edited:
Mr Latte
Premium
UPDATE: Simagic HPR / Shake-it Basshaker Mode
Some are contacting me and saying they have used this device this way for a few weeks and no issues. Ahh so great, but when I get them to show me the effects they use, it's not quite covering what I feel a more-in-depth test needs to do.
So what I can't see anywhere while researching or asking is an effects scenario with the Simagic HPR unit BUT it applying effects that are:
1. Using advanced layering in effects of multiple/different frequencies
2. Applying within these, frequencies well beyond 50Hz
So at this point, it seems I will just have to do my own test scenarios and within the comparisons I want to have with these 3 new hardware options
Don't Break It Lad
It might be fine but I am still a little cautious as this is bound to exert more strain/demand on the unit. So it's wiser/safer that all the earlier frequency tests I do with comparisons against the other two units will use the Simagic HPR reactor via Simhub's Shake-it Motors.
Multi What The Heck - Effects?
So if new to tactile what am I going on about, well here you go....
An example I highlight from an engine effect I created. Take a look at the range of frequencies it uses.
Will focus on engine effects for a moment as these can be constant and are a good example for implementing a wide range of frequencies.
This effect is applying controllable and individual RPM elements.
1. Low RPM
2.Med RPM
3.High RPM
Having this lets a user easily define how they want any created engine sensation to operate in different RPM stages. Oh what's that? Ahh, you just want idle and high RPM, then fine disable the other layers.
RPM & Frequencies
It appears a lot of the community want simplicity and less hassle. Others want engines made to suit certain cars but one of the factors that does not change regardless of how we go about engine sensations. It seems simple right, but I need to go deeper with this as few really highlight important factors most can easily understand.
What available range in frequencies can we use and properly feel?
This is the important part because regardless of what approach is applied by me or others with Simhub effects. We have to fit the working RPM over the frequencies that are usable/applied for the installed/used tactile/haptic hardware.Yet the frequency element varies alot on different hardware.
Not All The Same
Just like speakers, sure "they all play music" doing what they need to do right, but they all perform different, sound different and bring different level of quality experiences with the same music, So they cannot be classed as all the same.
Why should we expect or treat tactile hardware any different as well, "they all shake/vibrate" dont they... It would be silly to do so but the comparison needs to be drawn as its a very relevant factor to the users experience.
RPM Response Curves
A powerful tool in Simhub that few perhaps understand.
Cars vary a lot, so one with 5000RPM is not the same as one with 9000RPM or above 15000+ RPM but what if we can only apply 10-50Hz to use with the HPR?
Or what if like most peoples effects and budget hardware they will use @30-80hz at best in some cases. In both of those examples you only have 40Hz - 50Hz of dynamic range. That is not a lot folks in variation of feel over the RPM range.
Stick with me, so each of these 3 RPM stages have different effects layers that you see. These bring their own felt character, based on the mix you generate by applying +/- to the individual effect layers volumes. Its an excellent way to personalise the feel without changing frequencies at random.
Different Approaches With Tactile
What we get from motion based tactile or other options tend to have rather limited operational engines. It's a deep topic and possible to do various things to obtain immersive tactile in this.
Limitations & Factors / One For All Effects?
I need to raise the general situation we find with d.i.y tactile...
Within the operating range of various tactile hardware being used. Each product will have its own operational character. Units can differ in how strong they are with certain frequencies or how well some produce key frequencies to others. Also the best frequencies the unit offers is a small window in frequency range, but again may differ from various models.
With RPM effects as an example, you need to have those "best felt frequencies" at relevant RPM to achieve more enjoyable sensations. This can be incorporated into the effects design to best utilise a specific make/model of units character or operational performance. So the effect is then built to optimise how good the effect can be on the chosen hardware. One complements the other....
Compromises
This does not work if you try to use an effect created for a specific units operation but then expect it to feel the same or operate as good on multiple different makes/models of units. Likewise the opposite, a "general effect" created, will only work so well and be hit/miss if expected to fit in with multiple different makes/models of units.
With this, you end up with a cascade of different results and no assurance the created effects, achieve whatever their intended sensations were. Nor any certainty if they are really any good for everyone with different hardware and mixed installations.
To help make it more clear, a mix of various hardware of different units therefore will NOT operate with best efficiency all trying to use the same effects and settings. They all are different, their is no ONE TO FIT ALL approach with effects creation that will operate at best on various mixed hardware or very different installations.
Simhub Example
This is why and best illustrated by the fact Simhub offers simple tones for included effects. It does not, even after several years come with excellent, pre-made "works on all hardware" effects. It's a BIG factor because how would such effects suit:
(1) Wide range of makes,models and types of tactile/haptic hardware
(2) Many different installations people may have.
This is even before we take into account other factors like the soundcard used, the amplifier and Simhub settings. Then on top of that how all those are also configured or used differently by each person.
We can see why tactile is a mess/confusing/frustrating and mixed bag in how good or bad it may be for people. Yet you see the same time and time again, someone new, asking for effects to work on "their setup".
By Design / Feel It As Intended
It is one reason I will try to highlight why using effects in general. To apply or use on a wide variation of units or different installations is a confusing mess. Nor is it the same as building effects to offer a unique sensation and work best on a pre-determined configuration of hardware. One that is understood and with effects created and tested to suit that hardware's own operating character and performance. These are two very different approaches but it needs to be highlighted how or why I choose the approach I will offer.
Restricted Operational Frequency Factor
Moving on,,,, I do want to draw your attention to the range of frequencies being used in my example above. How it is relevant with the HPR reactor but also the common issue with various budget tactile transducers/hardware.
With the effect example shared above, containing 118Hz of range from lowest-highest frequencies used. That is a lot more than @40-50Hz of range. We see 22Hz - 140Hz being used in effects and every bit of those can be felt or brings it's own specific character on these tested exciters.
The bad news, it can't be experienced "as intended" on a lot of other budget transducers. Why, because some of them will not operate well, or are weak below 30Hz. Also, with others they do not operate with enough detail or effectively towards and above 80Hz.
Now re-look again at the frequencies each layer uses and see how many of them are below 30Hz and above 80Hz .
2 Out Of 11
Simply put, the other 9 layers will be missing senstions you should be feeling but wont feel properly or at all.
So back to where this post started... How well will the HPR perform, with these effects scenarios and the frequencies these effects use?
I hope this as a general overview highlights important elements to be considered with effects, frequencies and hardware.
Re Edited 20/01/24
Some are contacting me and saying they have used this device this way for a few weeks and no issues. Ahh so great, but when I get them to show me the effects they use, it's not quite covering what I feel a more-in-depth test needs to do.
So what I can't see anywhere while researching or asking is an effects scenario with the Simagic HPR unit BUT it applying effects that are:
1. Using advanced layering in effects of multiple/different frequencies
2. Applying within these, frequencies well beyond 50Hz
So at this point, it seems I will just have to do my own test scenarios and within the comparisons I want to have with these 3 new hardware options
Don't Break It Lad
It might be fine but I am still a little cautious as this is bound to exert more strain/demand on the unit. So it's wiser/safer that all the earlier frequency tests I do with comparisons against the other two units will use the Simagic HPR reactor via Simhub's Shake-it Motors.
Multi What The Heck - Effects?
So if new to tactile what am I going on about, well here you go....
An example I highlight from an engine effect I created. Take a look at the range of frequencies it uses.
Will focus on engine effects for a moment as these can be constant and are a good example for implementing a wide range of frequencies.
This effect is applying controllable and individual RPM elements.
1. Low RPM
2.Med RPM
3.High RPM
Having this lets a user easily define how they want any created engine sensation to operate in different RPM stages. Oh what's that? Ahh, you just want idle and high RPM, then fine disable the other layers.
RPM & Frequencies
It appears a lot of the community want simplicity and less hassle. Others want engines made to suit certain cars but one of the factors that does not change regardless of how we go about engine sensations. It seems simple right, but I need to go deeper with this as few really highlight important factors most can easily understand.
What available range in frequencies can we use and properly feel?
This is the important part because regardless of what approach is applied by me or others with Simhub effects. We have to fit the working RPM over the frequencies that are usable/applied for the installed/used tactile/haptic hardware.Yet the frequency element varies alot on different hardware.
Not All The Same
Just like speakers, sure "they all play music" doing what they need to do right, but they all perform different, sound different and bring different level of quality experiences with the same music, So they cannot be classed as all the same.
Why should we expect or treat tactile hardware any different as well, "they all shake/vibrate" dont they... It would be silly to do so but the comparison needs to be drawn as its a very relevant factor to the users experience.
RPM Response Curves
A powerful tool in Simhub that few perhaps understand.
Cars vary a lot, so one with 5000RPM is not the same as one with 9000RPM or above 15000+ RPM but what if we can only apply 10-50Hz to use with the HPR?
Or what if like most peoples effects and budget hardware they will use @30-80hz at best in some cases. In both of those examples you only have 40Hz - 50Hz of dynamic range. That is not a lot folks in variation of feel over the RPM range.
Stick with me, so each of these 3 RPM stages have different effects layers that you see. These bring their own felt character, based on the mix you generate by applying +/- to the individual effect layers volumes. Its an excellent way to personalise the feel without changing frequencies at random.
Different Approaches With Tactile
What we get from motion based tactile or other options tend to have rather limited operational engines. It's a deep topic and possible to do various things to obtain immersive tactile in this.
Limitations & Factors / One For All Effects?
I need to raise the general situation we find with d.i.y tactile...
Within the operating range of various tactile hardware being used. Each product will have its own operational character. Units can differ in how strong they are with certain frequencies or how well some produce key frequencies to others. Also the best frequencies the unit offers is a small window in frequency range, but again may differ from various models.
With RPM effects as an example, you need to have those "best felt frequencies" at relevant RPM to achieve more enjoyable sensations. This can be incorporated into the effects design to best utilise a specific make/model of units character or operational performance. So the effect is then built to optimise how good the effect can be on the chosen hardware. One complements the other....
Compromises
This does not work if you try to use an effect created for a specific units operation but then expect it to feel the same or operate as good on multiple different makes/models of units. Likewise the opposite, a "general effect" created, will only work so well and be hit/miss if expected to fit in with multiple different makes/models of units.
With this, you end up with a cascade of different results and no assurance the created effects, achieve whatever their intended sensations were. Nor any certainty if they are really any good for everyone with different hardware and mixed installations.
To help make it more clear, a mix of various hardware of different units therefore will NOT operate with best efficiency all trying to use the same effects and settings. They all are different, their is no ONE TO FIT ALL approach with effects creation that will operate at best on various mixed hardware or very different installations.
Simhub Example
This is why and best illustrated by the fact Simhub offers simple tones for included effects. It does not, even after several years come with excellent, pre-made "works on all hardware" effects. It's a BIG factor because how would such effects suit:
(1) Wide range of makes,models and types of tactile/haptic hardware
(2) Many different installations people may have.
This is even before we take into account other factors like the soundcard used, the amplifier and Simhub settings. Then on top of that how all those are also configured or used differently by each person.
We can see why tactile is a mess/confusing/frustrating and mixed bag in how good or bad it may be for people. Yet you see the same time and time again, someone new, asking for effects to work on "their setup".
By Design / Feel It As Intended
It is one reason I will try to highlight why using effects in general. To apply or use on a wide variation of units or different installations is a confusing mess. Nor is it the same as building effects to offer a unique sensation and work best on a pre-determined configuration of hardware. One that is understood and with effects created and tested to suit that hardware's own operating character and performance. These are two very different approaches but it needs to be highlighted how or why I choose the approach I will offer.
Restricted Operational Frequency Factor
Moving on,,,, I do want to draw your attention to the range of frequencies being used in my example above. How it is relevant with the HPR reactor but also the common issue with various budget tactile transducers/hardware.
With the effect example shared above, containing 118Hz of range from lowest-highest frequencies used. That is a lot more than @40-50Hz of range. We see 22Hz - 140Hz being used in effects and every bit of those can be felt or brings it's own specific character on these tested exciters.
The bad news, it can't be experienced "as intended" on a lot of other budget transducers. Why, because some of them will not operate well, or are weak below 30Hz. Also, with others they do not operate with enough detail or effectively towards and above 80Hz.
Now re-look again at the frequencies each layer uses and see how many of them are below 30Hz and above 80Hz .
2 Out Of 11
Simply put, the other 9 layers will be missing senstions you should be feeling but wont feel properly or at all.
So back to where this post started... How well will the HPR perform, with these effects scenarios and the frequencies these effects use?
I hope this as a general overview highlights important elements to be considered with effects, frequencies and hardware.
Re Edited 20/01/24
Last edited:
Mr Latte
Premium
Test Rig Progress
Just sharing the first part towards this. Is going to let me compare a lot of popular transducers but in the way it is made I can easily adapt it.
I am directly above the living room area and a rig build concept I have. That is targeting usage of excessive power in tactile brings a major problem. One that some may be able to relate a little with.. Yep the noise factors adjacent/below rooms.
One of the reasons, I am working on this was to also help with testing some ideas for my own new rig build. Past builds of the rig I worked at helped me try various things with tactile. Yet with the level of tactile the build was for using the noise downstairs was excessive.
For comparison....
These are common for "de-coupling" pedal and seat sections from the main rigs frame.
Some other popular options I worked with and tried in various ways over the last few years...
Now time for something different...
THINK BIG!
This is steel tubing connected to a metal channel within the isolation blocks. At each side are supports connected to the channels to lift the steel tubing section up from the base.
Top looking down.
I have 4 of these brackets but will add the 3rd for the ongoing comparison.
Future screenshot will show the HPR in the middle on opposite side.
Its easy to place feet onto these to compare directly what each one offers in felt sensations. I am more interested in the results of body contact comparisons 1-1 than readings from apps etc. Have already done some early work with testing Simhub in ACC.
Pre drilled, so supports most transducers on the market
Possibilities, multi vibration monitoring apps and phones can be used.
I have several phones about the house, even two old android models the same
The industrial isolation platforms are Unistrut compatible. A solution I've never seen used before with sim rig builds or in the way I will use them. I got multiple sets of these in 600mm 1000mm lengths to form the "platform" support section of my own new build.
Although, because my own rigs tactile is going to be so BADASS. I went further, with idea to bolt a couple together. The early results from those even stacked loosely have pleased the wife watching TV below. Yet even these neoprene based blocks, in the scale and size they are, as a single solution, may still not be enough to fully quash or prevent vibrations below.
Will be possible to see the vibrational monitoring with the phones but also place my S9 Ultra tablet on the floor. That will help determine the differences and how good this solution is reducing the vibrations to the floor.
More To Come
My rig will further improve over my old design by having secondary industrial springs that I combine with other dampening materials. Applying 4 springs each for the seat/pedal platforms. It wont resemble anything others have done. The reason, as a concept I have will also attempt something with tactile, that no rig to date I have seen has tried. Yet the only way I can determine how well it works is to build it and test. Can just be honest knowing my plans, and say nothing you see on these forums regards tactile on a rig is close. This will be reserved for its own thread and not become a topic to discuss here.
Several videos are of course available regards people comparing tactile.
Although I will do my own tests more to suit my curiosity and help understand what units and combinations of units maybe are more successfully partnered with others. Have plenty/enough experience and probably more tactile laying around at home than most people. Still though some recent budget models I will seek to indulge myself with as well. How will other budget transducers compare with whatever turns out to be the best exciter solution?
Example:
I knew even before watching, what the outcome would be in this test...
My own focus with tests, will be more on usage with Simhub perspective in how I can achieve better feeling sensations from effects for my own build. Also to help point out which models are indeed best "for me" and the approach I apply.
Just sharing the first part towards this. Is going to let me compare a lot of popular transducers but in the way it is made I can easily adapt it.
I am directly above the living room area and a rig build concept I have. That is targeting usage of excessive power in tactile brings a major problem. One that some may be able to relate a little with.. Yep the noise factors adjacent/below rooms.
One of the reasons, I am working on this was to also help with testing some ideas for my own new rig build. Past builds of the rig I worked at helped me try various things with tactile. Yet with the level of tactile the build was for using the noise downstairs was excessive.
For comparison....
These are common for "de-coupling" pedal and seat sections from the main rigs frame.
Some other popular options I worked with and tried in various ways over the last few years...
Now time for something different...
THINK BIG!
This is steel tubing connected to a metal channel within the isolation blocks. At each side are supports connected to the channels to lift the steel tubing section up from the base.
Top looking down.
I have 4 of these brackets but will add the 3rd for the ongoing comparison.
Future screenshot will show the HPR in the middle on opposite side.
Its easy to place feet onto these to compare directly what each one offers in felt sensations. I am more interested in the results of body contact comparisons 1-1 than readings from apps etc. Have already done some early work with testing Simhub in ACC.
Pre drilled, so supports most transducers on the market
Possibilities, multi vibration monitoring apps and phones can be used.
I have several phones about the house, even two old android models the same
The industrial isolation platforms are Unistrut compatible. A solution I've never seen used before with sim rig builds or in the way I will use them. I got multiple sets of these in 600mm 1000mm lengths to form the "platform" support section of my own new build.
Although, because my own rigs tactile is going to be so BADASS. I went further, with idea to bolt a couple together. The early results from those even stacked loosely have pleased the wife watching TV below. Yet even these neoprene based blocks, in the scale and size they are, as a single solution, may still not be enough to fully quash or prevent vibrations below.
Will be possible to see the vibrational monitoring with the phones but also place my S9 Ultra tablet on the floor. That will help determine the differences and how good this solution is reducing the vibrations to the floor.
More To Come
My rig will further improve over my old design by having secondary industrial springs that I combine with other dampening materials. Applying 4 springs each for the seat/pedal platforms. It wont resemble anything others have done. The reason, as a concept I have will also attempt something with tactile, that no rig to date I have seen has tried. Yet the only way I can determine how well it works is to build it and test. Can just be honest knowing my plans, and say nothing you see on these forums regards tactile on a rig is close. This will be reserved for its own thread and not become a topic to discuss here.
Several videos are of course available regards people comparing tactile.
Although I will do my own tests more to suit my curiosity and help understand what units and combinations of units maybe are more successfully partnered with others. Have plenty/enough experience and probably more tactile laying around at home than most people. Still though some recent budget models I will seek to indulge myself with as well. How will other budget transducers compare with whatever turns out to be the best exciter solution?
Example:
I knew even before watching, what the outcome would be in this test...
My own focus with tests, will be more on usage with Simhub perspective in how I can achieve better feeling sensations from effects for my own build. Also to help point out which models are indeed best "for me" and the approach I apply.
Last edited:
Mr Latte
Premium
Hey you're welcome, my waffling and ramblings are just my own thoughts or experiences with tactile. Not everyone will agree with my views and I may be blunt at times but just being honest in sharing them.
I just had a brief look at the video as its quite late here.
At first glance I recognised those units, but appears SRP is having them modified and certainly improving the cable too. I'm certain I have some, that I imported a few years back from far east. Quite hefty in weight but compared to other Dayton models, for me they were not as good as the best Dayton options.
What you think, cannot say for certain but looks the same...
I can tell you the performance of both of these exciters is rather good with tests but the larger BDS unit is impressing me the most so far. Its too early for me yet to say if the HPR brings its own benefits...
What I will be doing, when this comparison is done.
The effects I am creating/testing these units with will be shared for free.
I want people to be able to experience what I experienced when testing them.
Will use ACC for evaluating as that is what I used in the past.
I do however want to go further as I see excellent potential for units on pedal stems but also units on the pedal base. The primary reason for this is to reduce the number of effects to single units but also it will allow me to play around with effects that have separate sensations for toes and heels.
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Came across this combined sound card and 6 channel amp. Not found any direct reviews on it yet as most of the reviews are for the full system from Slip-Angle.
https://www.slip-angle.com/new-page-3-1
https://www.slip-angle.com/new-page-3-1
Definitely interesting.
Trying to figure out in my head if I should do a separate amp as well. I've got a USB sound card for my gaming headset, which "Ys" off to feed my Buttkicker amp. I wonder if I could use this amp in Windows simultaneously whereas maybe my current soundcard feeds my headset, and a separate amp such as this feeds all of the haptic transducers.
Mr Latte
Premium
Not many 6 channel amps around that are budget focused and with only 50W. So it probably lets those guys have something that's different and increase their profit margins. It works out at $301 / £215 shipped to UK, so not exactly cheap.
An amp with even 6 channels is not much benefit if considering multi-unit installations. Your still likely, gonna need more than one amp.
For many it works out better just buying 2x or 3x Douk Audio 4x 50W amps as it costs less and you can even get 12x 50W Channels cheaper than the 6 Channel option you linked.
Nobsound amps can be bought direct sometimes cheaper via Douk Audio Website.
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Mr Latte
Premium
I forgot to show the other alternative that Nobsound offer but I've never tried it nor know anyone that has used it with tactile yet. Would say its worth trying based on, what we know about this companies products work pretty well/reliable for excellent prices.
Seems to be a bigger unit in size to many of their compact amps.
This 6x50W option is a much cheaper purchase than Slip Angles option but with a brief look, it needs a soundcard and cables.
Something Unique / Stereo Upmixing
I will say looking at its features, it could be used for experiencing "Game Audio" based tactile from any stereo source or games without Simhub support *2. In this mode the BASS/TREBLE controls may prove useful too.
Or as indicated below we can use it in full 6 channel input mode with Simhub *3.
Just connect the soundcard inputs.
*1. Default comes with ONE 24V/6A power adapter, if you want higher output please prepare another one by yourself.
*2. Long press play/pause button can switch between 2.1 and 5.1 channel output mode. When switching to 5.1 channel output mode, any input modes can achieve 5. 1 channel output.
*3. If you want real 5.1 channel output, please use 5.1 channel RCA input. If input 2.0 channel but output 5.1 channel, the stereo signal is processed and simulated to 5.1 channel.
Seems to be a bigger unit in size to many of their compact amps.
This 6x50W option is a much cheaper purchase than Slip Angles option but with a brief look, it needs a soundcard and cables.
Something Unique / Stereo Upmixing
I will say looking at its features, it could be used for experiencing "Game Audio" based tactile from any stereo source or games without Simhub support *2. In this mode the BASS/TREBLE controls may prove useful too.
Or as indicated below we can use it in full 6 channel input mode with Simhub *3.
Just connect the soundcard inputs.
*1. Default comes with ONE 24V/6A power adapter, if you want higher output please prepare another one by yourself.
*2. Long press play/pause button can switch between 2.1 and 5.1 channel output mode. When switching to 5.1 channel output mode, any input modes can achieve 5. 1 channel output.
*3. If you want real 5.1 channel output, please use 5.1 channel RCA input. If input 2.0 channel but output 5.1 channel, the stereo signal is processed and simulated to 5.1 channel.
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Took the plunge and ordered one, I felt that it offered a simple solution to setting up a group of BST-1s for someone starting out in this field. Also picked up one of the Simagic haptic motors to fit to my brake pedal so Looking forward to reading your thoughts on them.
Mr Latte
Premium
UPDATE:
Had a busy week guys, so not got much more time spent with testing yet. Will get a few hours tonight but I want to put more into this, than rush it.
Users perspectives and preferences will vary, here are some more of mine...
Why, if we are seeking "improved immersion" would we limit/restrict having the ability to feel stereo operational sensations in effects for pedals/seat or across both combined? I see some that try to go after "realism" but I believe their is a difference in seeking trying to replicate a real car (in limited ways we have) to looking more at the effects in creative ways.
I have an interest to increase the user involvement/feedback/fun and that overused word "immersion" we may have with the sim/game.
If people spend thousands on motion hardware. Like a seat to feel L/R paddles compress against their body. Or to feel a seat harness operate in stereo. Both of which are not "realistic" then why with tactile would it not make more sense to have the tactile operate ALSO in stereo, to better align with motion based hardware!
Positional Tactile
We know, while many try or have, tactile units installed via the 4 corners approach. It is not a good way to achieve this, but lets look firstly at what we have to work with.
Simhub Offers 8x STEREO Effects
ROAD:
Road Vibrations / Road Rumble / Impacts
SLIP & LOCK:
Traction Loss / Wheel Slip / Wheel Lock
G-FORCES:
Lateral G
SPEED / WIND:
Speed With Curving
How To Best Highlight Stereo?
Feet / Shoulders / Sides / Under Knees
I can say with confidence, that body contact regions are VITAL to target for specific effects sensations. Very few people apply tactile under the knees, while some have front units on the underside of the seat, often this area the users legs are raised and not even in contact with the seat.
On a seat the shoulders region is one of the best, followed by the sides and lastly the bottom of the seat as the least beneficial with stereo sensations. We can of course install larger units than exciters to the underside/sides of the seat but often these will apply lower and more powerful frequencies which then much more easily transfer through the whole seat structure.
As such they are not always as positional and they can in some cases, with operation of other "MONO" based effects also being used, actually in some ways reduce the detected stereo sensations.
This is why "body regions" are important as with the exciters (my own approach private testing) was able to apply 5x exciter units per side from toes/heels/low/mid/upper back. Therefore by targeting specific body elements and with the most appropriate hardware, it's possible to have very enjoyable stereo effects with Simhub. Not all of the available effects may be needed but we certainly have plenty of options to combine different effects to compliment each other to define what they as a group achieve and not just as sole or individual effects.
Note this is something not one single product on the market offers. The ability to have (pedal/seat) full body immersion in effects. Operating in stereo and with a solution that comes with well defined effects ready to just be applied and enjoyed.
What About Hearing?
Another way to enhance stereo sensations, is by audible cues that units like exciters again, will create much better than traditional budget transducers attached to seats. Perhaps the tyres on curbs "BRRRR" is one of the more pleasing examples, where we can not just feel but also hear the positional audible output in activity for the correct wheels.
Pedal Focus For Now:
So, to keep this thread more on the right path. Who here is using these effects with their tactile profiles in stereo?
For months people on these forums have owned the HPR but again, who is going to come forward to offer their own opinions or feedback on effects they use with theirs?
Had a busy week guys, so not got much more time spent with testing yet. Will get a few hours tonight but I want to put more into this, than rush it.
Users perspectives and preferences will vary, here are some more of mine...
Why, if we are seeking "improved immersion" would we limit/restrict having the ability to feel stereo operational sensations in effects for pedals/seat or across both combined? I see some that try to go after "realism" but I believe their is a difference in seeking trying to replicate a real car (in limited ways we have) to looking more at the effects in creative ways.
I have an interest to increase the user involvement/feedback/fun and that overused word "immersion" we may have with the sim/game.
If people spend thousands on motion hardware. Like a seat to feel L/R paddles compress against their body. Or to feel a seat harness operate in stereo. Both of which are not "realistic" then why with tactile would it not make more sense to have the tactile operate ALSO in stereo, to better align with motion based hardware!
Positional Tactile
We know, while many try or have, tactile units installed via the 4 corners approach. It is not a good way to achieve this, but lets look firstly at what we have to work with.
Simhub Offers 8x STEREO Effects
ROAD:
Road Vibrations / Road Rumble / Impacts
SLIP & LOCK:
Traction Loss / Wheel Slip / Wheel Lock
G-FORCES:
Lateral G
SPEED / WIND:
Speed With Curving
How To Best Highlight Stereo?
Feet / Shoulders / Sides / Under Knees
I can say with confidence, that body contact regions are VITAL to target for specific effects sensations. Very few people apply tactile under the knees, while some have front units on the underside of the seat, often this area the users legs are raised and not even in contact with the seat.
On a seat the shoulders region is one of the best, followed by the sides and lastly the bottom of the seat as the least beneficial with stereo sensations. We can of course install larger units than exciters to the underside/sides of the seat but often these will apply lower and more powerful frequencies which then much more easily transfer through the whole seat structure.
As such they are not always as positional and they can in some cases, with operation of other "MONO" based effects also being used, actually in some ways reduce the detected stereo sensations.
This is why "body regions" are important as with the exciters (my own approach private testing) was able to apply 5x exciter units per side from toes/heels/low/mid/upper back. Therefore by targeting specific body elements and with the most appropriate hardware, it's possible to have very enjoyable stereo effects with Simhub. Not all of the available effects may be needed but we certainly have plenty of options to combine different effects to compliment each other to define what they as a group achieve and not just as sole or individual effects.
Note this is something not one single product on the market offers. The ability to have (pedal/seat) full body immersion in effects. Operating in stereo and with a solution that comes with well defined effects ready to just be applied and enjoyed.
What About Hearing?
Another way to enhance stereo sensations, is by audible cues that units like exciters again, will create much better than traditional budget transducers attached to seats. Perhaps the tyres on curbs "BRRRR" is one of the more pleasing examples, where we can not just feel but also hear the positional audible output in activity for the correct wheels.
Pedal Focus For Now:
So, to keep this thread more on the right path. Who here is using these effects with their tactile profiles in stereo?
For months people on these forums have owned the HPR but again, who is going to come forward to offer their own opinions or feedback on effects they use with theirs?
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Mr Latte
Premium
Spent some time today pushing the exciters hard with some effects developments.
Just wow, how good these can feel for so little money is impressing me.
Made tweaks to fresh new effects specifically for these units abilities.
Will also test later with the HPR as a good way to determine performance differences.
Excellent Sensations For Pedals
Have achieved superb detailing and stereo sensations from these effects...
Road Vibration / Road Rumble / Road Textures
All developed to work combined with musical arrangement of frequencies being applied. Each presenting a good range in felt variation of character/operation with the ability to fine tune or adapt the output with your own volume levels for the various layers each effect has.
Currently, these multilayers are utilising from 14Hz - 140Hz so probably well beyond what most people apply with budget transducers.
I think they will impress most people when these effects get tweeked a little more and released but hard to know what the benchmark now is for entry level tactile hardware...
Just wow, how good these can feel for so little money is impressing me.
Made tweaks to fresh new effects specifically for these units abilities.
Will also test later with the HPR as a good way to determine performance differences.
Excellent Sensations For Pedals
Have achieved superb detailing and stereo sensations from these effects...
Road Vibration / Road Rumble / Road Textures
All developed to work combined with musical arrangement of frequencies being applied. Each presenting a good range in felt variation of character/operation with the ability to fine tune or adapt the output with your own volume levels for the various layers each effect has.
Currently, these multilayers are utilising from 14Hz - 140Hz so probably well beyond what most people apply with budget transducers.
I think they will impress most people when these effects get tweeked a little more and released but hard to know what the benchmark now is for entry level tactile hardware...
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Mr Latte
Premium
Continued Effects Testing
Started testing how dual Dayton BDS units feel on these plates with one for each foot area.
I see one issue with the EXT32 unit, in that its connections are close to the surface it is mounted. Noticed some operation noise as the unit bottoms out.
In fairness, I have been pushing these units hard and to the point the effects being output lifted the EXT32 unit free from the 3M adhesive. I placed some good ole Dual Lock on the sucker and this helped both raise the unit and should stick better as well as help prevent its connections touching the mounted surface.
The BDS unit is proving to offer a deeper and richer level of bass that it is advertised to do over other Dayton exciters. The EXT32 is probably similar if not a little better than the previous best exciters we have seen from Dayton. However I would need to compare that with those. These tests are not really about that as my goal has been to determine what in 2024 is the best exciter and how does the HPR compare then to the best exciter?
Perhaps the XT32 will bring its own benefits with different frequencies or effects types but in 1-1 comparisons with these effects, the BDS just feels noticeably better.
Effects Creation / Artistic Impression
Different people may bring their own methods or approaches to offer what they want effects to feel like or operate. I seek to copy nobody with regards effects, to bring my own creativity and approach, based on my own experience.
Tonight I also added (Stereo Impacts) to the above effects to help complete what is my own artistic impression for representing stereo activity for suspension/bumps/textures with pedals. Having each of the effects configured to operate in a way they complement each other.
I wanted these stereo impacts to offer a floaty/squidgy sensation with large size impacts like with sausage kerbs. Here is what I found impressive, I have 4 layers included in this effect, with all their frequencies operating under 28Hz and it handles them easily with sufficient energy/response.
Really, have been hammering these BDS units with low frequencies, no issues and for an exciter that is quite impressive.
The HPR unit really has its work cut out for it to feel better. It's going to feel different that's certain but I am so impressed with these BDS units, even with low frequencies.
Started testing how dual Dayton BDS units feel on these plates with one for each foot area.
I see one issue with the EXT32 unit, in that its connections are close to the surface it is mounted. Noticed some operation noise as the unit bottoms out.
In fairness, I have been pushing these units hard and to the point the effects being output lifted the EXT32 unit free from the 3M adhesive. I placed some good ole Dual Lock on the sucker and this helped both raise the unit and should stick better as well as help prevent its connections touching the mounted surface.
The BDS unit is proving to offer a deeper and richer level of bass that it is advertised to do over other Dayton exciters. The EXT32 is probably similar if not a little better than the previous best exciters we have seen from Dayton. However I would need to compare that with those. These tests are not really about that as my goal has been to determine what in 2024 is the best exciter and how does the HPR compare then to the best exciter?
Perhaps the XT32 will bring its own benefits with different frequencies or effects types but in 1-1 comparisons with these effects, the BDS just feels noticeably better.
Effects Creation / Artistic Impression
Different people may bring their own methods or approaches to offer what they want effects to feel like or operate. I seek to copy nobody with regards effects, to bring my own creativity and approach, based on my own experience.
Tonight I also added (Stereo Impacts) to the above effects to help complete what is my own artistic impression for representing stereo activity for suspension/bumps/textures with pedals. Having each of the effects configured to operate in a way they complement each other.
I wanted these stereo impacts to offer a floaty/squidgy sensation with large size impacts like with sausage kerbs. Here is what I found impressive, I have 4 layers included in this effect, with all their frequencies operating under 28Hz and it handles them easily with sufficient energy/response.
Really, have been hammering these BDS units with low frequencies, no issues and for an exciter that is quite impressive.
The HPR unit really has its work cut out for it to feel better. It's going to feel different that's certain but I am so impressed with these BDS units, even with low frequencies.
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Mr Latte
Premium
I posted this on Simhub Discord earlier....
Scenario: Using current Latest Updates to Simhub & Sim Pro Software
Comparing Simagic HPR to Dayton BDS exciter via Douk Audio 50W amplifier using supplied 12V 5A PSU
To configure each to feel similar in output via channel test, I had to reduce the volume for the exciter to @25% in sound output For this test I applied 100% volume for effects and for Simhub Global
Tested Road Vibration / Mono @ 10Hz steps with (10Hz -50Hz)
It appears, their still is an issue with reduced power when trying to use the HPR via amplifier as output is too weak. Even with the 50W amp at max
In comparison using the HPR with Haptic Controller via Motors the output is stronger with the same frequencies applied.
Currently the HPR seems little use trying to use it in BASS SHAKER MODE
Scenario: Using current Latest Updates to Simhub & Sim Pro Software
Comparing Simagic HPR to Dayton BDS exciter via Douk Audio 50W amplifier using supplied 12V 5A PSU
To configure each to feel similar in output via channel test, I had to reduce the volume for the exciter to @25% in sound output For this test I applied 100% volume for effects and for Simhub Global
Tested Road Vibration / Mono @ 10Hz steps with (10Hz -50Hz)
It appears, their still is an issue with reduced power when trying to use the HPR via amplifier as output is too weak. Even with the 50W amp at max
In comparison using the HPR with Haptic Controller via Motors the output is stronger with the same frequencies applied.
Currently the HPR seems little use trying to use it in BASS SHAKER MODE
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Mr Latte
Premium
Simagic / Simhub / Usage?
Do not think the issue is with my setup or products, but maybe later someone will confirm if they experience the same problem. Is it possible/safe to use a more powerful amp or could Simagic be glad that Simhub is compatible but.... want the unit to be restricted if used this way (via amps) and possibly above 50Hz to avoid people using it unintentionally?
HPR / Simagic Haptic Controller & Simhub Shake-It Motors
Right, so I connected the HPR unit as normal to then compare it to the BDS exciter. To be clear, this test is to determine how well the output from each unit can handle different frequencies.
What I am currently doing is to compare the HPR with fixed frequencies via Shake-It Motors and then apply the same fixed frequencies to the Dayton BDS via Shake-It Bass Shakers. Trying one unit, then trying the other....
Low Bass First
I have been using Road Vibrations in mono on each unit for a busy workout with the effect created to be compared in 10Hz 20Hz 30Hz 40Hz 50Hz.
Later If the Simhub/ Bass Shaker mode issue is sorted? I would like to compare the same and probably some other effects also with 50Hz 60Hz 70Hz 80Hz 90Hz 100Hz. When that is done I will have a general better idea on how each unit differs and if the HPR is even worth considering, to use it above 100Hz?
Early Predictions
So far my comparisons with what I wrote at the start of the this thread seem to be quite accurate. Indeed the HPR has its own character and "punch" in its feel of operation. More hardness like on/off with it's response. The BDS appears to feel richer in response and character. I will try to expand on this and differences in both units over the planned tests and on the next update.
Do not think the issue is with my setup or products, but maybe later someone will confirm if they experience the same problem. Is it possible/safe to use a more powerful amp or could Simagic be glad that Simhub is compatible but.... want the unit to be restricted if used this way (via amps) and possibly above 50Hz to avoid people using it unintentionally?
HPR / Simagic Haptic Controller & Simhub Shake-It Motors
Right, so I connected the HPR unit as normal to then compare it to the BDS exciter. To be clear, this test is to determine how well the output from each unit can handle different frequencies.
What I am currently doing is to compare the HPR with fixed frequencies via Shake-It Motors and then apply the same fixed frequencies to the Dayton BDS via Shake-It Bass Shakers. Trying one unit, then trying the other....
Low Bass First
I have been using Road Vibrations in mono on each unit for a busy workout with the effect created to be compared in 10Hz 20Hz 30Hz 40Hz 50Hz.
Later If the Simhub/ Bass Shaker mode issue is sorted? I would like to compare the same and probably some other effects also with 50Hz 60Hz 70Hz 80Hz 90Hz 100Hz. When that is done I will have a general better idea on how each unit differs and if the HPR is even worth considering, to use it above 100Hz?
Early Predictions
So far my comparisons with what I wrote at the start of the this thread seem to be quite accurate. Indeed the HPR has its own character and "punch" in its feel of operation. More hardness like on/off with it's response. The BDS appears to feel richer in response and character. I will try to expand on this and differences in both units over the planned tests and on the next update.
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