New sim PC, opinion needed.

[manu68]

Hi everybody.

I am about to purchase the necessary parts for building my new simracing PC and I would like you to check my list.

I am not a real "hardcore" simracer, just because I don't have the time for that.
I currently play with a laptop, but this is my electric guitar rig computer and I want it back to his main function !

This pc don't have to be super High end, but I want something reliable and nice enough to support the current simulations with high/ultra details in 1080-1440p / 100 fps on a single monitor (ultrawide? curved?), and the upcoming simulations with pretty nice details . It should be a good basis to be upgraded if needed (liftime time 5-10 years)
It will be dedicated 100% to sim racing and absolutely nothing else. (no music, no video, no photos, ...). Once again, I am a "casual" player.
I have decided on a budget of about 2500€ including monitor, but I am not limited at 100€ of course.
I mainly play Assetto Corsa, hotlap or race with AI. (I also play netkar pro, grand prix legends, RBR, GTR2, ...)

I will also purchase an Rseat RS1 cockpit (budget about 1500€), just because I want something robust and with some more profesional look as all the homemade solution I had so far.
Plus Rseat company is located at about 15km from where I live, and I like to support the local suplliers, so the Rseat is my first cockpit choice so far.

My list . Please let me know if something is really wrong .

Motherboard: Gigabyte B360 Aorus Gaming 3 wifi
Processor: Intel I5-8400
Ventirad : Be quiet Dark rock 4
Ram : DDR4-3000 , 2x8 Gb
GPU : MSI Geforce GTX1070Ti Gaming 8g (best compromise performance / price)
Alim : Seasonic Plus gold 550W
DVD : Asus DRW-24D5MT (I have many old sim and document on CD/DVD)
SSD : Crucial MX500 250 Go
HDD : Seagate Firecuda 1 T0
Box : Fractal Design Define R5
Keyboard + mouse : Basic
Windows 10
Monitor : AOC Agon AG352QCX 35" 2560x1080 200Mhz curved or similar (Acer predator Z35, ..)

Thanks in advance for any comments.
(Remember , I want a reliable and good computer basis for casual simracing, not the best available)

 

[RasmusP]

Nice build, nice thread. Thumbs up for that already
Only comment from me :
Throw an i7 8700k in it, nothing else.

Basically all available Sims are cpu limited. Of course you can melt every gpu available by using 4k downsampling etc but you can always lower graphic settings.
However when your cpu becomes the limitation, you're screwed!

I spent a lot of time comparing performances. Annoyed all of my friends with it so I'm telling from research and experience.

I bought an I7 2600k in 2011. Lots of my friends got the i5 2500k or a non k version.
I'm the only one who didn't upgrade yet because I have a little bit higher performance and a good amount of overclock.

But I only play at 60 fps with vsync. You want 100!

Little tech talk:
All Sims are single thread limited. Although they support multiple cores, there is mostly 1 single thread that limits the fps.
Now there are two factors:
1. Pure single thread performance (cinebench single thread benchmark can show it)
2. Windows shuffles that single thread around between the cores so you see an even cpu load but it's really 100% load peaks so quickly at one core at the time that it only looks evened out!

The 8700k has the highest single thread performance currently on the market which gives you a huge boost!
Also 6 cores/12 threads give it another boost as windows can shuffle around a lot.

If you want to keep your mobo/ram/CPU/cooler unit for 5+ years, get the i7 8700k.

I would even recommend to rather get that cpu and only a 1060 for simracing on Single screen.
You can always throw in a better gpu but swapping the CPU with mostly the need for changing motherboard and memory too is huge pain and costly!

And to complete my intervention:
@RainhamIron would you be so kind to (again) say a few words about your story and painful path from the i7 4970k to your 8700k?

Sorry for the way too long post and my kinda strong tone but I really don't want you to not reach the fps you want and becoming frustrated in a few years.

My 2600k starts to struggle with big grids in raceroom, a few more overlays in AC, race starts in wreckfest and rF2 and with some non racing games.
The i5s and non-k of my friends are long gone and it slowly comes the time for my i7 k too.

So please get the 8700k and shred out fps for as many years as possible

 

[manu68]

Thanks a lot.
I will check that for sure.
the i7-8700K, which is an easy choice just because it is about the best processor available currently.
My choice of the I5-8400 was made after reading that it offers already very good performance for the price (in comparison with 7th gen processor).
It costs half of the price of the i7-8700K, or 400€ instead of 200€
an other compromise I had on my list would be the I5-8600K (about 300€), which can be overclocked , and is also cheaper as the i7-8700K

but you are right. As a casual player I don't want to upgrade every year. I must consider again the i7-8700K (and maybe make some compromise on other components )

question
Ram DDR-300 or DDR 2400 is enough ?
Recommandation for Geforce GTX 1060 ? Brand ? Model ?

 

[RasmusP]

Trying to make a bit of fun:
the i5 2500k and the non-k CPUs in 2011 had enough power for pretty much everything for a few years. Of course they were cheaper and of course there were good arguments for not getting the 2600k. Strangely no one kept it long enough to make it a good decision when looking back
In the end it was so worth it to get the 2600k!
The following generations didn't really show a lot more performance. Only the latest gen really shows that there might be a reason to upgrade.

My 2600k stayed in the PC while my nvidia 9800GT, 560ti, 760 (warranty replacement of the 560ti) and 970 got sold and replaced. Even my current 1070 might get sold if the next generation gets some reasonable pricing.

Graphics cards are getting a lot higher boosts from gen to gen than CPUs did for a loooong time!
Racing simulations are not as quickly evolving on the graphics layer like the games I played over the last years though. Or even if they do, you can dial them down a lot to make them work on old GPUs!

question
Ram DDR-300 or DDR 2400 is enough ?
Recommandation for Geforce GTX 1060 ? Brand ? Model ?

I guess you mean 3000?
It should be.. But it's a bit like the CPU decision. The intel CPUs aren't getting big boosts by quicker RAM, not like the AMDs!
However quicker RAM gives you a boost though. I'd say get the best you can get for reasonable money.
Like 2133=85€, 2400=100€, 3000=120€, 3400=145€, 3600=200€, get the 3400! You get the idea

GPUs are pretty similar. When you throw it all into excel and see what has the best bang for the buck, it's the 1050ti and 1060. The 1070 already leaves linearity while the 1080ti isn't really worth it at all.
If you can't get happy with the performance of a 1060 it isn't a good idea to get it of course though.

I had a quick look at some German online stores and the 1060 is around 320€ while a 1070 is 399€. I would invest into a 1070 then! Or a TI for only 25€ more...
1080 is 520 though and 1080TI 830€!
(All MSI Gaming).

You have to check the pricing and your limits for your self of course

Brands... that's a good question. The GTX 10XX are so efficient that it basically doesn't matter anymore what you get. They are all cool, low noise and not restricted by power consumption. As long as you don't get the reference design by nvidia you're good to go.

If you want something "nice on top" I can recommend:
- Palit jetstream/gamerock (really quiet cooler but 3 slots thick)
- Asus Strix (good compromise of cooling, noise and design)
- MSI GAMING (2 slots, very nice cooling but you'll hear it sometimes)
- Gigabyte Windforce (good cooling but not totally quiet)
- EVGA (no specific model but they got lifelong guarantee which is kinda cool?)

I can not recommend by experience and reviews:
- Zotac
- Inno3D
- EVGA (only 1070 as there were some models that burned!!!)

I personally got the MSI because while the fans do make some noise sometimes, I like the kind of noise. Tests often only measure the pure level of sound but not how annoying the kind of sound is for humans!
Friend of mine got the Palit Gamerock and that is completely silent! It's ugly and really thick though. Didn't like it

Hope that helps a little... It's always a struggle to build a PC but coming from 7 years with the same Mobo/RAM/CPU that's what I can tell you

SSDs/GPUs/Monitors are meant to be swapped out every few years. Mobo/RAM/CPU and coolings are meant to be kept a looong time!

 

[manu68]

I gave a look at german sellers.
It seems that the prices are a little cheaper as in France. (about 160€ for the same parts at LDLC.fr)

I made a quote with Alternate.de
(prices are also a little more expensive with Alternate.fr, 2420€ ,maybe due 20% taxes instead of 19%)


2316€ (+2290+sending). within Budget !
It will let some margin to think about the monitor.
I will definately consider the I7-8700K and the 1070ti, which seems to have significative more power as the 1060


1 x GIGABYTE B360 AORUS GAMING 3 WIFI, Mainboard
€ 117,90*
1 x Intel® Core™ i7-8700K, Prozessor
€ 369,-*
1 x be quiet! Dark Rock 4, CPU-Kühler
€ 61,90*
1 x G.Skill DIMM 16 GB DDR4-3000 Kit,...
€ 169,90*
1 x MSI GeForce GTX 1070 Ti Gaming 8G,...
€ 479,-*
1 x Seasonic FOCUS Plus 550 Gold, PC-Netzteil
€ 79,90*
1 x ASUS DRW-24D5MT, DVD-Brenner
€ 14,90*
1 x Crucial MX500 250 GB, Solid State Drive
€ 59,90*
1 x Seagate ST1000LX015 1 TB, Hybrid-Festplatte
€ 59,90*
1 x Fractal Design Define R5 Black Window, Tower-Gehäuse
€ 109,90*
2 x be quiet! Pure Wings 2 PWM, Gehäuselüfter
€ 17,98*
1 x AOC AG352QCX, LED-Monitor
€ 579,-*
1 x Microsoft Windows 10 Home R2 USB,...
€ 124,90*
1 x Logitech Wireless Mouse M185, Maus
€ 13,49*
1 x Logitech Wireless Touch Keyboard K400 Plus,...
€ 32,99*
Warenwert
€ 2.290,56*

 

[RasmusP]

Little note about the monitor:
I would buy it separately at a store where you can send it back without problems. It seems that Monitors have a very wide range of quality and also tests and reviews not really wrap their heads around ghosting etc.
Each Monitor seems to have different problems, not one is perfect. It's a little lottery...

So be prepared to send it back and either try a different model or the same again! I have only a cheap 200€ Asus 60Hz Monitor but I got 3 of them and send two back. All had clouding and backlight bleeding. Kept the one where I only barely see it with the lighting conditions in my room.

 

[manu68]

it was just to make a price simulation.
As I said, I am not sure at the moment about the way to go with the monitor.
I am just sure about the fact that it should be a single monitor, and I would like to stay under 800€ if possible
21:9 or 16:9?, curved or not ? 1080p or more ? G-sny or not ? 100, 120, 144 Hz ?....
Many questions remain open at the moment.

 

[Jeremy Ford]

That panel in the AOC monitor will be exactly the same one used the 35" Predator and BenQ monitors with the same specifications. I own the Predator version which has G-sync. Without G-sync reduces the cost a lot so this is a good price and a good single screen option in my opinion. I don't think G-sync is a big deal breaker for racing titles, even on 60hz monitor I've never noticed screen tearing while racing, as opposed to other games with rapid movement changes such as first person shooters.

Curved or non-curved, it's really a bit of a gimmick and really doesn't matter either way.

Buy your Window key from an online reseller, it's a lot cheaper. https://www.kinguin.net/category/19429/windows-10-professional-oem-key/

You can download the Windows 10 ISO from Microsoft and burn it to disc, or better still run off a USB thumb stick. https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/software-download/windows10

 

[RainhamIron]

Thanks again @RasmusP for volunteering my services

And....yes I would agree about going if possible for the 8700k. I certainly haven't regretted the upgrade. If I remember correctly, the limitations of the 4970k became particularly apparent after I bought a Rift and was trying to maintain a consistent 90fps (Rasmus correct me if I'm wrong ). Anyway even with the 1080ti it was struggling sometimes regardless of gfx settings.

I did a few tests and realised it was actually the cpu acting as the main bottleneck. For example, disabling certain apps gave me an extra 5 fps here, another few fps there, etc etc.

So in the end I went for an overclocked mobo / cpu / ram bundle from Scan Computers, whacked a huge Noctua air cooler on it and it's been happy days every since. Very quiet and really quick.

Agreed also with the above post also about getting windows 10 from an online reseller. Softwaregeeks.co.uk is another good option.

Otherwise hope you enjoy the new pc

 

[manu68]

Thanks.

I will go for the i7-8700 and the Gigabyte Aorus Gaming 3 wifi.
This motherboard has a B360 chipset, so no overclocking. I7-8700k benefit should be about 0, intended that the boost frequency is about the same for k and normal I7-8700
I7-8700 is also about 80€ cheaper as the I7-8700K
And as the B360 chipset doesn't support DDR4 overclocking, i also don't need 3000 Mhz memory

I don't really the point on going with the Aorus Z370 and the I7-8700K for overcklocking.
I am not at all a geek and I am not looking at the last fps.
Everything above constant 60fps on a nice big monitor will be perfect.

This config should already be a reliable platform for my needs.
(It is not a probleme if I can not run the upcoming sims at very high settings; High setting will be fine )
I don't only play with assetto corsa. I also play regularly with older sims as Netkar pro / Grand prix legends / GTR2 /...
I hope they should run perfectly at 2560x1440p (Grand prix legends looks always fantastic after all these years) or at least under 1080p (This is already the case with my current laptop, also why not !)

Regarding the monitor, i think I will go for a 35" 21:9.
I have to decide for 1080p or 1440p. (not easy)
Some models from Dell alienware or Acer predator seems to be fantastic

 

[RasmusP]

I won't really recommend going for the non-k.
It's 3.2 vs 3.7 GHz base clock on all cores and 4.6 vs 4.7 GHz boost clock. However these i7 go easily up to 4.5 base clock on all cores and 4.9 GHz boost clock.
You'd lose a good amount of performance. In this case I'd rather go for the 8600k.
Here's a little video benchmarking the non k vs a non-oc'ed k:

And a second one, Project Cars 2 at 1:04

 

[manu68]

First video, Project cars 2 at 1:52, there is 5 fps difference at about 135 fps. Is it really very significative to really justify the 8700k.

Does simracing runs always on turbo mode @4.6-4.7 Ghz or mainly on standart mode @3.2 Ghz ?

I admit I am about newbie on PC Config.

I could for sure afford the 8700k, but it is a question of logic.
Why purchasing a 8700K if I will never do overclocking ?
(other said, if i purchase a 8700k I could then better choose the Z370 motherboard and have more possibilities in the next years . But then, I am in the High end logic, which I don't really need I think)

 

[RasmusP]

First video, Project cars 2 at 1:52, there is 5 fps difference at about 135 fps. Is it really very significative to really justify the 8700k.

Does simracing runs always on turbo mode @4.6-4.7 Ghz or mainly on standart mode @3.2 Ghz ?

I admit I am about newbie on PC Config.

I could for sure afford the 8700k, but it is a question of logic.
Why purchasing a 8700K if I will never do overclocking ?
(other said, if i purchase a 8700k I could then better choose the Z370 motherboard and have more possibilities in the next years . But then, I am in the High end logic, which I don't really need I think)

It's a difficult decision for sure. Now gtr2 is "the old game you still wanna play". In 8 years it might be Gtr3 that is the old game, with modded 100+ cars mods etc.
VR might be a thing like a 144hz monitor is now.
No matter what gpu you'll buy today, you will swap it out in 5+ years.
The question is if you want a cpu that will still be good or not.
It's investing into a future you can't predict.

My experience says go for the k but if it doesn't feel right for you then don't do it.
I regret not having bought a motherboard than supports per-core-overclock so I can't run 4c/8 threads with only one core at 4.9 GHz for single core games.
So when I wanted to play gothic 3 at 60 fps I had to deactivate hyperthreading and 2 cores etc. to achieve maximum clocks on one core. It was a mess really...
If I could boost per-core I could run a nice configuration all the time. Fitting all situations.

Would've been 40€ more in 2011, now I can't find a fitting mobo anywhere so I have to live with it.

I also didn't overclock my CPU until end of 2016. Never needed to.
Then I did, read guides and got it done!

Overclocking isn't complicated anymore. You just need to find a trustworthy guide and click through the bios. Mostly just changing the frequency is all you need to do. Really easy!

So should you invest 80 bucks into something you might need in 5 years? That's your decision. I know I would!

 

[manu68]

You are a good seller !
You convince me. I will go for the I7-8700K and a Z370 motherboard with 16gb DDR4-3000 RAM
I don't intend to use much overclocking, but it would be available if needed.
I think it is the right choice . Maybe a little overwhelming for my needs, but a reliable basis for the next years.

I will also take a SSD 250G0 M2-NVMe for windows , as there is a place for that on the motherboard.

 

[Jacco van der Zaag]

If you would go with a non-K board, you could drop the Z board as well, since those are made for overclocking. And there are robust B boards available.

Also, I can't recall the release dates, but maybe it's interesting to wait for the 9000 series. Not to get that one, since it's a small step from an 8000 series, but most of the time, shops want to get rid of the 'old' models, or even the manufacturers like Asus/MSI/Gigabyte.

So, they come with package deals, combo deals, whatever they call them. Maybe interesting.

 

[RasmusP]

You are a good seller !
You convince me. I will go for the I7-8700K and a Z370 motherboard with 16gb DDR4-3000 RAM
I don't intend to use much overclocking, but it would be available if needed.
I think it is the right choice . Maybe a little overwhelming for my needs, but a reliable basis for the next years.

I will also take a SSD 250G0 M2-NVMe for windows , as there is a place for that on the motherboard.

Hope your decision will prove to be a good one in a few years
While you're at it: is the case from above still the one you'll get?
As you can read from RainhamIron's post he got a big fat noctua air cooler. He had some expensive aio watercooling before but that was loud and didn't do the job really.
I got a kinda small, for the time big and good though air cooler. For my massive oc and due to my really bad case I swapped that for the ultra massive thermalright Le grand Macho RT.

What I wanna say: the be quiet you listed is good, no question. If you want to save some money while getting better cooling I would recommend the big thermalright ones. Grand Macho or Macho rev b.
If you want to be future proof as heck, go with the noctua dual fan coolers although they are pretty expensive...
Both don't look near as good as the be quiet does though. Swapping the cooler isn't a fun job though so if you don't have a window in your case or don't care, throw in the biggest air cooler you can find

I'll check which one fits for you

 

[RasmusP]

If you would go with a non-K board, you could drop the Z board as well, since those are made for overclocking. And there are robust B boards available.

Also, I can't recall the release dates, but maybe it's interesting to wait for the 9000 series. Not to get that one, since it's a small step from an 8000 series, but most of the time, shops want to get rid of the 'old' models, or even the manufacturers like Asus/MSI/Gigabyte.

So, they come with package deals, combo deals, whatever they call them. Maybe interesting.

He listed a non z board when listing the non k but thanks for pointing that out for others who might overlook it!
Do you know anything about release dates?
I thought the next release will just be i9 and no new i7. I'm lurking for a price drop of the 8700k since last year, very interested in this myself!

 

[manu68]

Well, noise of the pc itself is not especially a big problem (due to the fans and cooling system i mean)
I play with an hearphone !
My idea was to use a nice conventional cooler + some additional fans (maybe on the top of the case). It could make a nice heating system it case my wife send me into the cellar with all my rig ! (I spent many many hours to race Grand Prix Legend on a homemade cockpit in my cellar, and it was soo cold in winter !)

I have the be quiet dark rock 4 on my list, because I have read good things for the price,
but any advice would be nice.
No watercooling .

Aspect is also not a big deal (all this LGB and so on is not really for me).

 

[Jacco van der Zaag]

Oh, I've overlooked that one myself! Pardon me.

About the 9000, there are coming i7's (9700K) but it's different now.
i9 9900K (8C/16T)
i7 9700K (8C/8T)
i5 9600K (6C/6T)

There are rumours about early october
Would be nice to see a pricedrop indeed!

 

[RasmusP]

Well, noise of the pc itself is not especially a big problem (due to the fans and cooling system i mean)
I play with an hearphone !

If noise would be a problem, I'd try to sell you into the Be Quiet Silent Wings instead of the Pure Wings you listed
For me it's crucial to have a completely silent system available while doing office stuff etc. For gaming not so much. Silent Wings are phenomenal. Pure wings will do the job!

There are rumours about early october

Just did some research too and it might be early October or just early 2019. Not sure how much the 8700k will drop. For me that's very interesting! Not sure if it's worth the waiting though for someone who would like to buy now.

I have the be quiet dark rock 4 on my list, because I have read good things for the price,
but any advice would be nice.
No watercooling .

Fractal Design R5 fits up to 180mm of CPU-Cooler monsters!
So you're basically completely free. You listed low profile RAM iirc and no fancy high profile wannabe cooling RAM so there shouldn't be any restrictions at all!

Since noise isn't a problem I would just look at a few different cooling benchmarks and grab the cheapest one from the tops.
Which would be from my perspective:
Dual Fan ones:
- Noctua NH-D15 (best one but expensive!)
- Be Quiet Dark Rock Pro 3 (prettiest, kinda expensive though!)
- Phanteks PH-TC14PE (good mix! Budget dual fan with awesome cooling!)

Single Fan ones:
- Thermalright HR-02 Macho Rev. B (cheapest one and really good!)

Here's a nice benchmark, although from 2015 it's still relevant!
LINK
German site but the Benchmarks are not language dependent I guess
The important ones to look at are "passive" and "1000 rpm". Maximum rpm is nice to have but it's not directly comparable. The Macho is just awesome with just over 40€! Only 1°C cooler than the Dark Rock 3 but a tad cheaper!

Or the Le Grand Macho RT I bought but that one is really tight with the rear panel of the Mobo, close to the GPU backplate and putting in the cables is not fun. It's at 60€ though and a few °C cooler than the normal macho.

There are so many good coolers out there, you can compare and discuss pros and cons until forever. The Thermalright's are really good and a bit cheaper. That was my point to make.