NASCAR Heat 2

[@apocapollo]

How do you NASCAR guys see the stock cars in rF2 out of interest? Is it the lack of official licence, car brands or something else do you think that holds it back?

I'm no NASCAR expert by any account, but I kind of assumed that the rF2 stockcars would be more popular than they ended up being. Just wondering why

I've been working on a 2017 carset for the ISI stock cars in rF2. I'm not super impressed with the oval AI. You can tell that the AI was built for road racing and then converted to ovals. Things like pit road behavior and lane merging... issues that only crop up when you're only turning left.

The lack of official tracks and cars is also a major issues. Generic NASCAR looks goofy to NASCAR fans, there's just lots of tiny details that are lost when you're not paying too much mind to real life. The lacking amount of fictional/clone tracks is also a bad look. As it stands, I think there's less than a dozen oval tracks on Steam. Not particularly enticing for stock car fans, who still have the option to race iRacing or NR2003.

 

[Peter Hooper]

I'm currently a console racer only and have not had the pleasure of PC racing for some years.

My take on it though is that the lack of an official license holds these things back massively. I know from my point of view I have to do a lot of my racing offline and to do so is much more fun when racing in cars and against drivers and following the real world schedule that I see week in week out in the real series. I would not get anywhere near the same enjoyment and immersion out of generic liveried cars on tracks that are not part of a real Nascar season.

 

[Paul Jeffrey]

Thanks for the reply fellas

So you think it's mostly down to both AI and the lack of official content then? How do the actual cars themselves feel, do they offer up a decent driving experience and are they any good in an online race?

I've always been a NASCAR fan from a distance (my first 500 was in 1999 I think, back in the days of Earnhardt and Irvan) watching on Sky at a friends house and always had an interest in it, without ever delving too deep into the sport.

It's one of those things I've kinda fancied driving in a league situation (but not getting involved in iRacing) for a while, but don't know if it would be popular enough to run here at RD, or even if it's worth the trouble

 

[Peter Hooper]

I've been working on a 2017 carset for the ISI stock cars in rF2. I'm not super impressed with the oval AI. You can tell that the AI was built for road racing and then converted to ovals. Things like pit road behavior and lane merging... issues that only crop up when you're only turning left.

The lack of official tracks and cars is also a major issues. Generic NASCAR looks goofy to NASCAR fans, there's just lots of tiny details that are lost when you're not paying too much mind to real life. The lacking amount of fictional/clone tracks is also a bad look. As it stands, I think there's less than a dozen oval tracks on Steam. Not particularly enticing for stock car fans, who still have the option to race iRacing or NR2003.

lol you must have been reading my mind... I wrote very similar at the same time.

 

[Paul Jeffrey]

Liveries obviously won't matter because you can paint your own / download mods and stuff. It's the tracks that are a killer. Actually I'm surprised someone hasn't yet tried to make a NASCAR mod using the physics from the ISI cars.. that would be cool, with all the proper manufacturers..

 

[Paul Jeffrey]

Edit: Bugger mis read that one about the car set

Do you mean skins, or the actual cars?

 

[Peter Hooper]

Thanks for the reply fellas

So you think it's mostly down to both AI and the lack of official content then? How do the actual cars themselves feel, do they offer up a decent driving experience and are they any good in an online race?

I've always been a NASCAR fan from a distance (my first 500 was in 1999 I think, back in the days of Earnhardt and Irvan) watching on Sky at a friends house and always had an interest in it, without ever delving too deep into the sport.

It's one of those things I've kinda fancied driving in a league situation (but not getting involved in iRacing) for a while, but don't know if it would be popular enough to run here at RD, or even if it's worth the trouble

I've been really impressed with Nascar Heat in offline mode but it is much more limited online. Unfortunately the only online series (here on RD http://www.racedepartment.com/forums/xbox-one-nascar-friday-night-heat-series.425/) is at a time that makes it very difficult for me to participate but I know the guys there have had some fun with it. There is no damage online though and no cautions either so they have to be called manually by the drivers themselves.

I was put off of the game initially because of the bad reviews and held back from purchase for several months but when it went on digital discount I picked it up and have not regretted it since. Myself and @Rob are running a 50% offline Championship in line with the current season and are having a real blast with it. Some of the racing is the most fun (and intense) I have had in almost 30 years of computer racing.

 

[Danneskjold184]

The lack of official tracks and cars is also a major issues. Generic NASCAR looks goofy to NASCAR fans, there's just lots of tiny details that are lost when you're not paying too much mind to real life. The lacking amount of fictional/clone tracks is also a bad look. As it stands, I think there's less than a dozen oval tracks on Steam. Not particularly enticing for stock car fans, who still have the option to race iRacing or NR2003.

With Steam Workshop items, I'm sitting at 19 oval tracks for RF2, not counting doubles.


But a big, dedicated GOOD NASCAR sim racer is still desired. If these companies started working on a Sim, and then built in arcade-like options, they'd be rolling in the money. Instead, they approach it from the other angle. Start with an arcade game, and build in difficulty options, and the game falls flat.

 

[Slyfrequency]

I love rFactor 2 but it's not a dedicated NASCAR game, things are missing here and there, little details like track logos and sponsors around the tracks. Another element of NASCAR are the crashes that can happen, especially at Daytona and Talladega when you've got 20+ cars involved, since rFactor 2 doesn't have crash physics, racing the AI for long periods of time is a bit boring, like the AI aren't bad from my experience on the ovals. I can't ever see myself replicating a full offline season in its current state, I'll just stick to all the other juicy rF2 content

 

[Pywackett-Barchetta]

How do you NASCAR guys see the stock cars in rF2 out of interest? Is it the lack of official licence, car brands or something else do you think that holds it back?

I'm no NASCAR expert by any account, but I kind of assumed that the rF2 stockcars would be more popular than they ended up being. Just wondering why

I've actually been eyeing getting my hands on rFactor 2 for a while expressly because of the stock cars and the off-brand track recreations. I love when they make something original out of it.

I'm not super impressed with the oval AI. You can tell that the AI was built for road racing and then converted to ovals.

This is the big concern as well, though. Most games that try to do oval racing and don't make it a major focused feature tend to not have competitive enough AI for what is an entirely different kind of racing, in practice. There is no one perfect line. It's constantly changing. Much as I love NASCAR, booting up a game expressly for stock cars feels a little disappointing in this day and age, but it makes sense due to having better suited competition for it and a wide variety of applicable courses.

(Side note: much as I don't feel the need to have every single course on the circuit in NASCAR titles, it's rather difficult to find a game that has a wide variety of ovals otherwise (outside of older IndyCar games). So many non-oval-focused titles tend to omit short tracks, or put a lot of focus on Indianapolis and a single tri-oval specifically.)

 

[Dave R]

I enjoyed NHE over the previous efforts. I think it needs just a bit of work and it should be much improved. For PC, let us adjust FOV, look left right and back, and make the AI a bit better for Tally/Daytona and I'll be happy. Give me the truck series and Xfinity series so I can have a proper career mode and I'll be over the moon.

 

[Rob]

Whilst retaining the considerable might of Monster Games to work on the sequel to NASCAR Heat Evolution, the now newly titled 704games have looked to expand their back office staff and re focus their attentions to the popular series, with work having already begun on a new Xbox One, PlayStation 4 and Windows PC release of the NASCAR franchise.

Clue number one. NASCAR, no matter what you tink of it, is still the most corporately nimble major series on the planet. And they are "it" for the American market, outside of IndyCar catching up fast. They are also, essentially, a monopoly and have been sued for anti-trust violations many times. But one thing they are not is subtle. Or tolerant. As everyone knows, they will change on a dime.

I do think it has the 20% hooked, so NASCAR (rather France thugs) sat DBR down in a room and said "guys, about the only thing you showed us is that you are not as bad as those eye-TAL-yans (I'm sure they were not Italians) that made the last piece of crap. So, either you make a game that works (and I'm sure they meant "sells" or that you can play with your friends) or your $1.4 contract will disappear faster than sh*t through a goose." That's not an exaggeration. lol. Whether the motivation worked, I don't know, but I hope so, because I'd hate to see this franchise go back to a European developer (which goes double for a large U.S. developer). They can't seem to wrap their minds around oval racing, and DBR really nailed the physics and the A.I., and the setups. I never thought you wold be able to race NASCAR A.I. and have it feel so real, but other parts of the game are very broken.

Too bad this site does not have more NASCAR fans, but I understand where the bread is buttered. There are plenty out there, in any case. NASCAR this year has made a big push (much like F1) to fix its sagging viewer base. In many ways, I think they are on the right track, but please don't remember I said that. lol. Even though it's a big sport, in NC, where I live, it's a small community. An RD press credential here for NASCAR would get you roughly the equivalent of David Croft access in F1...without the respect. lol.

So, the net result is, DBR will either make this into the finest NASCAR game ever produced, or DBR will be sh*t canned in eight months. It's like F1 2015 -- everyone poo-poo'ed it in general, but you could tell (with DiRT Rally out there) that it was the foundation of something great.

I loved all of the Papyrus games from back in the late 80's through to early 2000's and they formed the core of my racing experience during that time. I could not begin to work out how many hours I spent on their Nascar games through those years.

Nascar Heat Evolution, even though being slated on many fronts since it's release is a very solid recreation of the sport in my view and I have thoroughly enjoyed it in the time since I picked it up a few months ago and it has certainly been a massive surprise to me.

They nailed the physics but left room for improvement. You can actually feel any of the 1.7 billion setup adjustments that each car offers for qualy and race. And the A.I. are almost perfect (head on over to Charlotte SMS). Many many very hardcore fans here in the states are playing it with a love/hate relationship. It's not a SIM yet, except in SP. But the things they have to fix (70% of online, button controls, pit entry for AI, and UDP support) it's not impossible. They have the core right.

 

[bigdaddy24]

How do you NASCAR guys see the stock cars in rF2 out of interest? Is it the lack of official licence, car brands or something else do you think that holds it back?

I'm no NASCAR expert by any account, but I kind of assumed that the rF2 stockcars would be more popular than they ended up being. Just wondering why

I do like them to,I just wish they would put real car models out. I do think they have come a long way. I think if you had a mod out like VHR for rfactor 1 for rfactor 2 it would be great

 

[bigdaddy24]

I do not hold nothing high for this new game,Every year they change the name of the company and say it going to be a great game with new people behind it. I just wonder why they think they can do better this time around. I said i would not buy another game from them till they at least put a update out for the engine sound,I mean if they can't get that close i don't see how they can fix a hole game.

 

[Rob]

I do not hold nothing high for this new game,Every year they change the name of the company and say it going to be a great game with new people behind it. I just wonder why they think they can do better this time around. I said i would not buy another game from them till they at least put a update out for the engine sound,I mean if they can't get that close i don't see how they can fix a hole game.

Ultimately NASCAR the sanctioning body will find "a game" that they want to represent their sport. I'm a console guy, but people tell me iRacing seems to be as close as you can get these days, quality wise. Even Dale Jr. runs a team via iRacing (and one kid got a spot in a real lower tier series by being on Dale's team - see below). Dale actually believes and invests in the proposition that kids can learn to drive solely through a SIM when young, then make a faster and easier transition into real cars somewhere after mid-teens.

Seeing so many drivers on you tube and commercials and other media during release told me that NASCAR was fully behind this. I'm sure they view iRacing as a great thing, but something they can't control. Same with any other PC game. I have no doubt that NASCAR will find a game maker that can sell loads of games. But here's the rub -- will popularity mean a better SIM? And will NASCAR legally crack down copies or discourage their drivers from promoting them?

In my opinion, popularity, these days, does equal a better SIM, even on console (and that's where this theory has to work, really). But there is a caveat. In the American market, that's not necessarily true. The real racing market is so diverse that to a "numbers guy" it may appear that games like Forza will sell best. But I think that's short-sighted. Since the market here is so large and can really crush a developer's profit margin one way or another, if you can find the "untapped" market, you can still pull of a stunner in the game world. pCARS owes much of its success, I bet, to this "untapped" GT SIM driver here. Is there an "untapped" market for a NASCAR game that is both branded, on the console, and a SIM? Big league. And fans know what it should look and feel like. They know that you need a trackbar adjustment in car to be real. lol. So, if these can marry up, there is a good chance you will get one good product. Maybe not iRacing, but more like F1.

Will NASCAR legally crack down copies or discourage their drivers from promoting them? No. NASCAR loves their drivers, and would not dream of legally challenging someone like Dale Jr. It would be a public nightmare. But if there are any licenses out there, they will yank them. If this ticks off drivers who irace, it gets stickier, but not much. What would happen is that the new drivers would be geared toward the official game, hopefully after playing it in grade school.

 

[@apocapollo]

I've seen a lot of people talking about NASCAR ditching 704... And 704 isn't ditching NASCAR.

Nobody realizes that DMR/704games has a ton of investors from within the sport. NASCAR is not going to jump ship from 704 to another publisher. Drivers like Brad Keselowski and Joey Logano are investors in 704. Even Brian France is invested in 704. I'm sure there's even more important people that I don't know about. So the higher-ups in NASCAR stand to have personal financial gains when 704 is successful.

Besides, nobody else wants the license, as has been evidenced since EA Sports left in 2008. ETX picked the license up for cheap, and then DMR (not even a company at the time, literally just a couple guys) picked up the license for even cheaper.

PS - the rebrand was something that employees of DMR actually wanted. When you say that you work at/for "Dusenberry Martin Racing", people assume that you're talking about a race team and not a video game publisher.

 

[Boby Kim]

Key(s) for succes for a solid console title:
- take care of stunning graphics (most important)
- crashes with full damage model, good crash physics and replays.
- make sure all names and car liveries are up to date.
Result: Show me the money

 

[Colin Pappas]

Are we racing this Friday night?

 

[Drecho 65]

I have Nascar racing 2003 season on my computer and race all the time. I have updated the cars and the graphics and makes it more up to date to play. I just ran a Atlanta race the other night. I have been hunting another copy for my grandson who is really into Nascar. He is only 5 year old but can name every driver and what car they drive. He has already been to see the Bristol races. I have it installed on his parents computer but we can't play together. I have to take my cd with me when I go and then bring it home with me. Like I said . I would love to buy another copy of the game for him but I'm not paying the price that one would cost on ebay or amazon. It is by far one of the best Nascar games still today . I also have Race Room racing experience , Project cars , Assetta Corsa .I always manage to do a race or two a week on Nascar though . Think I will go do one now . Before I go to bed . Lol .

 

[Michael Watts]

Yes my computer has been down trying to get a replacement