Motion system with 10000$ budget

[Pablo Roldan]

I have a rig with a tactile system built which i feel pretty good but from what i have read in this forum i with all probabity have no idea what i really good tactil system feels like.

Besides improving it which i think should be the first thing before going for a motion system i am thinking and thinking (or dreaming and dreaming) about what a motion route go for.

I like actuators because of the heave, and pitch to surf the road, but i see people with actuators and still using a seat mover to kind of feel de G-forces (even not sustained).So i am wandering which combination would work best for me:

1-Actuators+Seat mover (No traction loss, i am not building a >4 actuators setup in my room)
2-Actuators with G-seat (Simulated traction loss, and i wander if a g-seat fully replace seat mover)
3-Next limit Traction loss + Seat mover/Gseat (Missing the heave and pitch, but really would like to know how that nexlimit traction loss platform feels,if someone have it and can tell)

Or any other combination you find the best for you,i am just pointing these 3 out.

A G-Belt could fit on any i guess.

If you had around 10000$ what motion system would you build?(Not including pedals/wheel,shifter).

 

[Tronicgr_6DOF]

I too have been looking at the dk2, trying to weigh up the benefits of their system v the extra travel you get with others, it is frankly a head melter, but I do think they have some interesting features which are coming very soon.

There is some information from their Facebook group on the work they are doing on vibrations / haptics, they have it tested and running at 667hz so far which I think is far above what other systems can generate (correct me if I’m wrong).

their control method is also velocity based rather than position and they are very adamant in not using any canned effects.

I also looked at the qubic systems, limited to 100mm travel, but the speed, they claim 800mm/s which is bonkers, although would you be able to reach that in 100mm stroke? Who knows!! Their haptics / vibrations for their system is stated as 100hz for comparison.

if anyone knows what the pt / thanos / srs can achieve for hz haptics, then that would be of interest.

I can give you some numbers for the AMC-AASD15A controller:

Latency 1ms (receiving new positions from motion software)
Update rate, 1000 times per second
Servo signals update rate 200khz, and the servomotor can reach the max 3000RPM in 10ms from 0RPM (needs small ramp on start to contain any undesired structural vibrations). Smaller speeds are very low latency allowing low amplitude vibration for tactile up to 100hz.

It can support actuators with 4mm/rev, 5mm/rev, 10mm/rev, 25mm/rev leadscrew pitch.

Based on the leadscrew pitch, the max speeds are accordingly, 200mm/s, 250mm/s, 500mm/s, 880mm/s

Actuator Strokes supported from 10mm to 2500mm

Thanks
Thanos

 

[Tronicgr_6DOF]

Oh, and if you missed the latest episode of hotlaps, check it, its especially spicy:

 

[Pablo Roldan]

Thanks for the video.

PixelTherapy introduced me to PT-Actuators systems.I find his videos very informative.

I missed a comparation between a short travel lengh system like DK2 and a long travel lenght system like SFX100 or PT-Actuators.

 

[Tronicgr_6DOF]

Thanks for the video.

PixelTherapy introduced me to PT-Actuators systems.I find his videos very informative.

I missed a comparation between a short travel lengh system like DK2 and a long travel lenght system like SFX100 or PT-Actuators.

DK2 uses Clearpath servos (low 75v DC ). The thing with these servos is that the are brushless DC, which means they cannot hold same level of torque across all speeds. On low speeds can deliver the max torque, but with the higher RPM their torque is dropping. Why is this important? Actually is not important for the 50mm stroke, and it will never develop full RPM speed from end to end...

But if you use the same clearpath motor for longer stroke, well... the higher speed the lower torque you get, which means if the rig is loaded, will drop the speed to compensate:

Model Information | Teknic, Inc.

ClearPath® integrates brushless servo motor & encoder w/servo drive & controller. Buy online. Ships in 3 days. Starts @ $249. 3yr warranty. 90-day returns.

teknic.com

The difference when you are using AASD-15A AC servomotor, is that it has same torque from 0 RPM up to the max rated RPM, usually 3000 RPM. Even when on over-torque (+300%). See chart3...

Page Not Found - Aliexpress.com

I hope that cleared up the technical side of things, and by no means it indicates that the DK2 and the servomotor it uses is not good match, like I said, its fine for that stroke... Maybe they will use the AC larger type clearpath for the DK6...

 

[Tronicgr_6DOF]

So I did some actual comparison of RPM on different strokes, and yes, the max RPM drops under 20mm stroke on the Scorpion 5mm/rev leadscrew actuators, because simply there is not enough travel distance to develop the full speed...

Now, if I could setup a load fixture, I could do the same loaded...

In meantime see this slower moving test for angle testing endurance:

 

[Pablo Roldan]

Thanks a lot for the videos. Not sure what it means .

DK2 should be better at things like haptics since they have same RPM for all strokes even for small strokes? and PT-Actuators only having less performance under 20mm strokes?.Is that even noticeable?.

 

[Pablo Roldan]

Can please some p1-x owner measure the lenght of the pedal plate?.

I am attaching an image for the measurement i need:

 

[Tronicgr_6DOF]

Thanks a lot for the videos. Not sure what it means .

DK2 should be better at things like haptics since they have same RPM for all strokes even for small strokes? and PT-Actuators only having less performance under 20mm strokes?.Is that even noticeable?.

No, no, you didn't understand, not reaching max RPM on small strokes is not indication of less performance... I was trying to show that on small strokes the motor does not necessarily need to develop full speed, as there is not enough travel spave to accelerate to full speed, depending on its internal PID settings.

I know from experience that Clearpath motors use ras noise reduction algorithm that adds even more ramp up and ramp down in its PID control, so what I mean, the clearpath motors in the DK2, probably don't have enough travel to fully accelerate and decelerate to the max rated 2000RPM...

I used Clearpath motors before, back in 2017, but their limited power supply unit (little room for peak loads) and the high price per performance specs, had me looking for alternatives, with direct wall outlet supply, 110v or 220v AC....

 

[d69morpwr]

I wo

Thanks a lot for the videos. Not sure what it means .

DK2 should be better at things like haptics since they have same RPM for all strokes even for small strokes? and PT-Actuators only having less performance under 20mm strokes?.Is that even noticeable?.

I wouldnt be overly concerned with the speed of most of these. Even on 110v the sfx will shake you so hard you cant see and will be trying to grab the e stop as fast as possible.

 

[NetLawMan]

Late to the party here, but I am extremely happy with my Dbox system. I now have gen 3, 1.5 inch. Four things I would highlight in your quest:


First, specs are not everything. A huge part is how the HW is integrated with game titles (not just relying on telemetry streams).

Second, plug n play is important to people (like me). I want to spend more time racing than tinkering.

Third, the dbox system is very discrete, your rig just looks like it has 4 thick legs.

Fourth, safety is important. This is high powered machinery. It can be dangerous. I would rather buy a turnkey system from a company that will stand behind it, and has designed robust well regarded systems over a long period of time. This is not the type of equipment I would want to buy from a start-up or some factory that found another way to pump stuff out directly to the public.

To close, for the reasons above, I chose d-box, I am very happy with it, and I wouldn’t change a thing

 

[SigmaMotion]

Late to the party here, but I am extremely happy with my Dbox system. I now have gen 3, 1.5 inch. Four things I would highlight in your quest:


First, specs are not everything. A huge part is how the HW is integrated with game titles (not just relying on telemetry streams).

Second, plug n play is important to people (like me). I want to spend more time racing than tinkering.

Third, the dbox system is very discrete, your rig just looks like it has 4 thick legs.

Fourth, safety is important. This is high powered machinery. It can be dangerous. I would rather buy a turnkey system from a company that will stand behind it, and has designed robust well regarded systems over a long period of time. This is not the type of equipment I would want to buy from a start-up or some factory that found another way to pump stuff out directly to the public.

To close, for the reasons above, I chose d-box, I am very happy with it, and I wouldn’t change a thing

All good points.

 

[Tronicgr_6DOF]

Yeah, if I had a Lamborghini, I would be happy too. I would take care it so well, keep it safe in the garage all the time.

Then I would drive my Jeep to the ground and have some fun too.

 

[Pablo Roldan]

Sim lab's P1-X orderer.

I wont build it until 24th Dec since it is going to be my Christmas present.

But i can start working with the bucket Sparco SPEED 3 for the tactile setup.

Ive been looking for the Dayton Audio DAEX32EP-4 exciter with no luck, do you know of a valid alternative? (They are meant to be screw to the back of the SPARCO)

 

[metalnwood]

Sim lab's P1-X orderer.

I wont build it until 24th Dec since it is going to be my Christmas present.

Sounds like the wife has already got far too involved in this build.

 

[Pablo Roldan]

Sounds like the wife has already got far too involved in this build.

And this is only the begining.....

 

[Howard-Lin]

Sim lab's P1-X orderer.

I wont build it until 24th Dec since it is going to be my Christmas present.

But i can start working with the bucket Sparco SPEED 3 for the tactile setup.

Ive been looking for the Dayton Audio DAEX32EP-4 exciter with no luck, do you know of a valid alternative? (They are meant to be screw to the back of the SPARCO)

You have to stare at your new rig for almost 2 months

 

[Howard-Lin]

Late to the party here, but I am extremely happy with my Dbox system. I now have gen 3, 1.5 inch. Four things I would highlight in your quest:


First, specs are not everything. A huge part is how the HW is integrated with game titles (not just relying on telemetry streams).

Second, plug n play is important to people (like me). I want to spend more time racing than tinkering.

Third, the dbox system is very discrete, your rig just looks like it has 4 thick legs.

Fourth, safety is important. This is high powered machinery. It can be dangerous. I would rather buy a turnkey system from a company that will stand behind it, and has designed robust well regarded systems over a long period of time. This is not the type of equipment I would want to buy from a start-up or some factory that found another way to pump stuff out directly to the public.

To close, for the reasons above, I chose d-box, I am very happy with it, and I wouldn’t change a thing

The DBox 1.5" system is very nice, I like it a lot too.

 

[crooksy]

No, no, you didn't understand, not reaching max RPM on small strokes is not indication of less performance... I was trying to show that on small strokes the motor does not necessarily need to develop full speed, as there is not enough travel spave to accelerate to full speed, depending on its internal PID settings.

I know from experience that Clearpath motors use ras noise reduction algorithm that adds even more ramp up and ramp down in its PID control, so what I mean, the clearpath motors in the DK2, probably don't have enough travel to fully accelerate and decelerate to the max rated 2000RPM...

I used Clearpath motors before, back in 2017, but their limited power supply unit (little room for peak loads) and the high price per performance specs, had me looking for alternatives, with direct wall outlet supply, 110v or 220v AC....

That's not correct according to the guys at Sigma DX2 reaches max speed in the 2 inches easily and when fully loaded. In fact Max speed in 70ms at 1/3 of the travel.

 

[Pablo Roldan]

DK2 looks pretty good. Double the travel of the DBOX system and chepear. Only thing is they are a bit noisy and not looking as good.

 

[crooksy]

Sim lab's P1-X orderer.

I wont build it until 24th Dec since it is going to be my Christmas present.

But i can start working with the bucket Sparco SPEED 3 for the tactile setup.

Ive been looking for the Dayton Audio DAEX32EP-4 exciter with no luck, do you know of a valid alternative? (They are meant to be screw to the back of the SPARCO)

I just ordered my p1x too which will be an upgrade from my tried and tested VR3 rig.

Next will be an upgraded PC in black friday sale then I will be sorted.