Mobile Driving/Flying Cockpit with Motion and Tactile ( Build )

[HoiHman]

@RCHeliguy, like your last video

If your NLMv3 can handle the extra weight you could also attach a 4 way active belt tensioner to the seatbracket. Because it would move with the seat mover it would not overload the NLMv3 when tightened.

I have mine also attached to the seat bracket so it moves back/forwards with the seat rails.

 

[HoiHman]

@RCHeliguy,

I came across this video and i just wanted to share it with you

 

[RCHeliguy]

@HoiHman That is an interesting solution.

 

[HoiHman]

@HoiHman That is an interesting solution.

If i were in to flight sims that's how i would do it.
I've seen that video 3 times and it's brilliant every time i watch it.

 

[RCHeliguy]

If i were in to flight sims that's how i would do it.
I've seen that video 3 times and it's brilliant every time i watch it.

I don't see this solution as something that would be easy to make work on my mobile rig with much taller inverted pedals and electronics stored in the bottom front of the rig that would be in the way.

In addition when I remove the standard seat bolster and put in the thinner memory foam seat bottom so I can use a center stick, that drops where my legs are and how low the flight pedals need to be. Without dropping the bolster the stick would be way too high and uncomfortable.

His approach would work if you had a side stick and left the stock bolster in place. I like having a centered stick too much to be willing to change that. The only plane I've seen with a side stick is the F-16. In just about everything else I fly including helicopters the stick is centered between your legs.

Even if I made all those concessions, I would need to widen the whole frame or I would lose the ability to slide my pedals to the side.

Basically I would have to completely redesign my rig and make a lot of concessions I'm unwilling to make.

I'm not in any way suggesting that is not a clever solution. It's just not a good match for my needs.

I've also looked at where I "may" eventually take my rig and that solution is absolutely incompatible with my current thoughts on this subject.

 

[Tom_Hampton]

The only plane I've seen with a side stick is the F-16. In just about everything else I fly including helicopters the stick is centered between your legs.

Well....its a pretty common modern configuration, and continues to grow as true fly-by-wire becomes more commonplace.

Side-stick - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The side-stick is used in many modern military fighter aircraft, such as the F-16 Fighting Falcon, Mitsubishi F-2, Dassault Rafale, and F-22 Raptor, and also on civil aircraft, such as the Sukhoi Superjet 100, Airbus A320 and all subsequent Airbus aircraft,[2] including the largest passenger jet in service, the Airbus A380.

It is also used in very new helicopter models such as the Bell 525.

Also the Gulfstream G5xx/6xx, which although it is a civil AC, is also used as a baseline for many military variants. Wiki didn't mention the F-35 which is also a side-stick.

Jus' sayin'.

 

[RCHeliguy]

I was extremely surprised when I got the F-16 and found the stick on the right. I had never seen that before. I assumed it wasn't the only example of that, but it's the first one I've seen. I assume for fly by wire systems that it will become the standard.

No matter the case I still prefer a centered stick for "my" rig

 

[RCHeliguy]

As much as I like my 3D printed flight pedal solution. I think I may go to an aluminum solution, just so there is absolutely no flex.
I may 3D print something to cover the holes in the top of the 2"x1.5" aluminum tubing. There are holes in the side bracket that would allow +/- 20mm height. This solution would require having T-Nuts in other slots if I wanted to raise the pedals by much for shorter people.

It's not that the current solution doesn't work, but I'm not a fan of having anything that can flex in my rig. What the other solution did allow me to do was dial in where I wanted to place my pedals. This will fit without rearranging anything else.

 

[RCHeliguy]

First test fit and it's pretty well where it needs to be. I'll sand the ends of the tubes a bit so I have room for UHMW tape on the outside of the angle aluminum. Once I get it drilled, fully fitted, and trim the unneeded corners off, I plan to polish this up to a nice glossy shine with something that will hold the finish for a little while.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Made a bit more progress today. Auto Punched the holes and drilled most of them.
But I may have to put this away for another week or so before I can finish it.

 

[RCHeliguy]

This is solid as a rock with zero flex. it is much easier to slide this forward and backwards than the previous solution. It may not look quite as sexy as the 3D printed solution, but it works and will feel solid with all pedal types which will feel better if I'm using pedal tilt for brakes.

I have 3 height adjustment holes and can use different slots so it can move vertically as well, but that takes a bit more effort. Hopefully sliding forward and backwards will work well enough for move visitors.

 

[RCHeliguy]

After raising my flight pedals a bit there is some trickle down. There is still ample room between the transducers under my foot plate when my driving pedals are over them, however the bar ends were hitting the foot plate isolator mounts on the sides.

The left two redesigned bottom footplate isolator mounts are shorter and allow the flight pedals to be raised even be a little higher while still having clearance. They are now left and right pairs rather than being identical.

The first pair is printing now in Galaxy Black rather than the original silver.

 

[R Soul]

Do you design your rig to support your race and flight sim hobbies or did you buy race and flight sims to support your rig design hobby?

 

[RCHeliguy]

Do you design your rig to support your race and flight sim hobbies or did you buy race and flight sims to support your rig design hobby?

That sounds like a rhetorical question.

 

[RCHeliguy]

This is an A/B comparison between the old and new foot plate isolator supports.

Installed.

Now there is plenty of clearance in that the bar ends and flight pedal mechanism will now come into contact at about the same height. I'll likely move the corner brace in the shadows to the back of that piece of profile.

 

[FredAZ]

Interesting -- can you really use the dead-pedal with the mount in front?

So more of a heel vibrator......

 

[RCHeliguy]

Interesting -- can you really use the dead-pedal with the mount in front?

So more of a heel vibrator......

When I use the dead pedal, I typically rotate my foot leaving my heel on the foot plate. I've never even noticed the isolation mounts on top of the plate. If I had I would have changed the design.

Realistically the only time I actually use the dead pedal is when I'm using a clutch and right foot braking which is mostly for Rally and it doesn't come up that much.

For most track racing my foot stays in front of the brake and the clutch and brake are slid to the side such that the clutch pedal is over the dead pedal.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Starting to work on a time lapse video for my rig as it has evolved. Ideas for the video.

1. Timeline across the bottom and moving arrow.
2. Expense box in upper right hand corner that has the most recent expense, and running total.

Geeze this is a lot of pictures! Below is a work in progress but is mostly intact.

Phase 1 ( Getting started in sim racing for only $2,000... little did I know...)

Decided that sim racing might be fun and wanted to start with solid mid-level controls, but wanted to be able to fold it up and put it in the closet when not in use.

Oct 27, 2017

• Fanatic Club Sport Group $1800.
• WheelStand Pro $199

Using existing RC Helicopter Sim computer
i5-4960 16Gb Nvidia Titan (original) Den 65" Samsung TV monitor

Initial rig
Folding Chair ( viva the experience! )
WheelStand Pro
Wood bracing between chair and Wheelstand Pro
Cinch strap added to keep the stick shift from being pulled forward.
Fantatic Club Sport Group
CS 2.5 wheelbase, Porsche wheel, hand brake, CS 3.0 pedals, CS 1.5 shift
65" TV in Den

Got First sim title Dirt Rally 1.0 on sale for $10

Ordered Rift Black Friday sale for $299.99, ordered 3rd camera as well.

Nov 24, 2017 Oculus Rift arrives initially set up in Den
Nov 29, 2017 Rig moves to basement Media room ( wife says it can not stay in the den )
Nov 30, 2019 Thrustmaster A-10 controls arrive

Dirt Rally 1.0 is fantastic and makes me think this could be a lot of fun, but it takes a week of 15-20 minute sessions to get my VR legs and not get nauseous.

Dec 4, 2017 VW Passat seat
Dec 6, 2017 Create seat base and attachment to driving sim
Dec 11, 2017 Wooden Flight rig build starts
Dec 12, 2017 MFG Crosswind flight pedals arrive
Dec 13, 2017 Add initial tactile 2x Aura AST-2B-4 Pro ( Simvibe, underseat, on brake pedal, Yamaha 50W AV receiver )

Not sure what to do with my flight rig. Tried DCS and it is horrible in VR with my current hardware.

January 2018 Discover Eve Valkyrie !!!!!!!!

Ignore driving sims and focus on working my way up to Level 60 Omega Omega Loving VR space flight!

Mar 9, 2018 Yamaha receiver keeps thermaling and shutting down in use. Built tactile amplifier out of a 100W x 4 Class D amp board and Class H 360W LED amplifier

April max out Eve Valkyrie, start to lose interest
Rig collects dust for a few months while I play In Death

Aug 24, 2018 GTX 1080Ti

Nothin happens for the rest of the year and I play with my RC Helicopters instead.

Phase II ( Get P1 chassis and transition to higher end hardware )

January 2019 I get the bug to build a more substantial rig

February 2, 2019 parts laid out
Feb 5, 2019 SimLab P1 build
Feb 6, bolted together no transducers
Feb 9, wooden transducer prototypes
Feb 23, 2019 Transducer under seat test ( fail )
Feb 28, 2019 different Transducer under seat ( success )
Mar ? , 2019 convert from SimVibe to SimHub for tactile
Apr 2, 2019 Convert to Neutrik 8 pole plugs for all 4 channels of transducers
Apr 17, 2019 Fanatec McLaren GT3
Apr 26, 2019 HE Pedals, Handbrake, Sequential shifter
Apr 29, 2019 Built transducer amp from 100W x 4 Class D amp with Class H LED PS
May 8, 2019 i9-9900K 32G 3600MHz DRAM ( Yeah! Suddenly everything runs MUCH better )
May 12, 2019 4 belt harness
Jun 16, 2019 Pro Sim H pattern shifter
Jul 31, 2019 Valve Index
Aug 17, 2019 Seatbelt shoulder support
( Started iRacing with virtual racing school, purchased books on racing and started actually learning how to race ) About damn time right???
Sep 11, 2019 RTX 2080Ti
Sep 22, 2019 SC 2 Pro direct drive wheel
Sep 24, 2019 Custom wooden button box
Sep 25, 2019 Precision Sim Engineering GT3 wheel
Oct 24, 2019 Momo 330mm Rally wheel
Nov 18, 2019 machined aluminum flight throttle
Dec 3, 2019 machined aluminum flight stick solution

Phase III ( Incremental improvements and features )

Jan 24, 2020 Inverted throttle started experimenting
Feb 2, 2020 Inverted all pedal near final solution.
Feb 29, 2020 Behringer NX4-6000 amp
Apr 22, 2020 machine new aluminum foot plate
May 5, 2020 machine ProSim mount plate
May 6, 2020 Aluminum trackball mouse mount
Aug 8-17, 2020 Production of Delrin SC2 wheel mounts
Aug 21, 2020 Install Buttkicker Concert on Seat
Aug 22, 2020 initial Noctua 200mm wooden fan mount
Aug 23, 2020 Molded Clutch Pedal face
Aug 28, 2020 installed machined Shift knob on ProSim H pattern shifter
Sept 7, 2020 Prusa Mk3S built.
Sept 18, 2020 initial 3D printed Camelbak bottle holder
Sept 24, 2020 3D printed SC2 Cover
Oct 4, 2020 Installed quiet Noctua fans in NX4-6000
Oct 5, 2020 3D printed Sim Racing God Camelbak bottle holder
Oct 8, 2020 machined aluminum angle for handbrake mount
Oct 26, 2020 3D printed Fan mount for 200mm Noctua fan
Oct 30, 2020 3D printed USB receiver holder for DD steering wheel
Nov 4, 2020 3D printed footplate isolation mount
Nov 7, 2020 Started design and prototype work on 3D printed Button box
Nov 11, 2020 3D printed SC2 Emergency Button Box
Dec 3, 2020 3D printed rotary knobs BB,TC,AB
Dec 7, 2020 3D printed dash right side with USB mount built in.
Dec 23, 2020 3D printed phone holder
Jan 4, 2020 3D printed magnetic labels
Jan 15, 2021 3D printed ButtonBox Complete
Jan 19, 2021 Mounted analog M clock on dash
Jan 21, 2021 3D printed USB plug holder
Jan 23, 2021 3D printed Neutrik 8 pole attachment
Jan 25, 2021 3D printed USB storage box, USB hub holder
Jan 29, 2021 3D printed Faux exhaust pipes ( no longer mounted )
Jan 30, 2021 machined aluminum mounts for grab handles
Jan 31, 2021 3D printed M5 Velcro Clip
Feb 3, 2021 final 3D printed trackball mouse mount
Feb 4, 2021 3D printed M5/M6 bolt mount trackball for others
Feb 5, 2021 3D printed Sequential Shift Cover
Feb 7, 2021 3D printed Glove Holder
Feb 13, 2021 Machined Aluminum mounts for heavy duty casters
Feb 17, 2021 3D printed fairing for vertical mount plate
Feb 17, 2021 Finalized 3D printed covers for caster mounts
Feb 28, 2021 Initial attempt at 3D printed bungee mount for seatbelts
Mar 5, 2021 Released final version of 3D printed caster mount for others
Mar 6, 2021 Last attempt with 3D printed bungee cords on seatbelts
Mar 11, 2021 Refined 3D printed Fan cover support
Mar 22, 2021 Collective stick arrived
Mar 28, 2021 3D printed Neutrik 2/4 pole mount for transducers
Apr 1, 2021 Completed Helicopter Collective Mount Aluminum/Profile
Apr 9, 2021 Final 3D printed flight pedal mount
Apr 10, 2021 3D print flight pedal bar end pedals
Apr 12, 2021 MFG flight pedal Damper installed
Apr 15, 2021 3D printed clutch pedal
Apr 15, 2021 Installed aluminum HRS Pedal faces
Apr 15, 2021 3D printed USB hub mount that bolts to MFG Crosswind pedal frame
Apr 20, 2021 3D printed Virpil Stick Base Mount
Apr 20, 2021 3D printed 8020 cap
Apr 27, 2021 3D printed Flight Stick Magnetic Switch Quick Release
Apr 30, 2021 3D printed Final Flight Throttle Mount
May 1, 2021 3D printed Flight Stick Profile Cover with cable guide
May 6, 2021 Updated USB Cover ( thicker teeth Galaxy Black)
May 6, 2021 3D printed Cable Clip for flight controls
May 20, 2021 Installed Large Pedal Plate Quick Releases
Jun 10, 2021 Aluminum Flight pedal mount
Jun 13, 2021 Updated Footplate isolator mounts

 

[RCHeliguy]

Ruh roh Raggy!

I haven't touched the video mentioned in my last post in nearly a month. Just started a new project (work, not sim related) and I've been focused on that which is a good thing.

@HoiHman I did take your advice and go down the path of seatbelt tensioner, but after reading a number of very compelling reviews on the SimXperience G-Belt, I decided to go that route.

Related to this I have made comments about being close to the weight limit on my NLRv3.

Two things have happened to make me reconsider this.

1. NLR has updated their website to show that an NLRv3 can handle up to a 285 lb user.
2. I am actually doing something I joked about earlier and have been losing weight

So I now have over 100lbs to play with to handle my BK-CT and a seat belt tensioner.

In preparation I have ordered a new black 3" wide Sabelt 4 point harness. I should see it in the next couple weeks. My current 2" wide Tanaka 4 point harness has worked well, but I want to spread the pressure out better and I assume 3" belts stretch less than 2" belts.

I'm not sure if I'll need/want these, but I ordered a couple shoulder pads just in case I did.

What I've found out after asking in another thread on this forum and on a FB group is that NRG all seem to have a 5 point slot that is "too close for comfort" if you get my meaning. Otherwise I would be ordering a 5 or 6 point harness instead. I still love the comfort of my Prisma and I'm not ready to replace it to get a comfortable 5 or 6 point seat belt in place. That said I may consider altering the seat myself at some point. However I would need to get a split front bolster or replace both bottom cushions to make a new hole in the seat work.

My reasons for choosing a G-Belt over a DYI solution is that the G-Belt unit looks very robust, has two actuators and I was finally sold on their software and cloud configuration. I suspect that I will like some of their effects other than braking. The idea that they had mapped out settings for the different cars and tracks such that I could race a car / track combination and have customized settings for that automatically loaded is a pretty big selling feature for me compared to DIY iteration and trial and error. Once I have this setup properly and have my tastes configured in terms of which feedback features I want and how intense it should be, I should be able to just join a race in iRacing and go. And last but not least, I'm just not motivated to build a DIY solution at this time and don't have the time to commit to that.

If all goes well, I may even experiment a bit with SimVibe again, but I am currently happy with SimHub for my 4 tactile transducers.

Fingers crossed this is all it's cracked up to be. I have high hopes! It sounds like this could be a substantial leap in immersion and braking feedback which I'm hoping will improve my consistency in corners.

 

[RCHeliguy]

I've been focusing on software lately in all directions.

SC2 Pro - I've just installed the July 7th version of the True Drive Paddock with online profiles that have a rating system. I've tried a few for iRacing and like them. So far this release is working great. I also like that I can turn off the search for BT devices since I don't use any.

The only thing you have to do after loading one of these profiles for iRacing is adjusting the top Nm force in iRacing setup to something that feels right for the specific car with linear checked. This scales the max inputs relative to the base force which I have setup at 25Nm. So if the steering just feels a bit too light, reduce the max setting. If the steering is too stiff increase the max force.

I've noticed that most profiles that were rated well are running between 52-56% power.

I haven't seen anything crazy happen with this version of True Drive Paddock or the configurations I've tested and I ran into some track walls pretty hard to see what happens. Yes, I still always instinctively pull my hands back from the wheel when a collision is unavoidable. One bad experience has taught me. So far I've not seen any circumstances where the wheel wildly oscillates requiring the emergency stop.

I've not tried the latest True Drive Classic for comparison.

SimHub - I've finally started to make different tactile profiles for different cars in iRacing.
Currently I have a great lumpy idle for the BMW M8 GTE, but when using say a Ferrari 488 GT3 with a higher idle barely anything registers. So for higher reving cars, I'm increasing rpm where the low lumpy idle ends, but I'm reducing the effect since these are smoother idling vehicles.

Using the BMW M8 GTE as an example again, it's very grippy and holds well in corners and I don't need the wheel slide effects to come on at as early when a tire is just starting to slip setting before I need to react.

With the MX-5, I've found that I'm very frequently sliding, but because of how controllable it is while sliding, and how often I'm in that state, I let it kick in later and reduce the intensity. Just enough for immersion but less distracting.

However on other cars I want more of a warning and to feel the tires slipping earlier with more intensity.

So I'm grouping combinations of rpm and wheelspin effects in different profiles with much of the rest the same.

I intend to do this with Dirt Rally 2.0 as well. I've noticed that I like different settings for some of the different types of tracks and definitely different idle ranges for different cars. So I'll get back to that.

NLRv3 - I've also started to make clones of my motion settings to tweak. I'll never forget the grin on my face one time when I dumped the clutch from a stop in the MX-5 and the NLRv3 started to jerk me back and forth dampening out as I picked up speed like a poor engagement like that should do. Not something I would ever experience in other cars, but still a cool effect.

There are also some tracks that have a lot more banking and steeper grades where I don't want as much body roll as others. Realistically in VR a little motion does go a long way especially on a race track.

I'm still not as sure how much tweaking I need on this, but I'm going to play a bit more.

In Dirt Rally I have my settings a chunk higher, and the biggest effect that the NLRv3 produces that makes Rally more believable is the landing after going airborne. Granted other than Finland and a couple places, that isn't an effect that you have frequency, but from the very beginning, without that landing feel, immersion was always broken for me. It was just very disappointing not to feel anything when you land.

G-Belt
Part of this is in preparation for the G-Belt. It has a cloud based configuration in the SimCommander to make sure you don't clip the effects with different car and track combinations.