Mobile Driving/Flying Cockpit with Motion and Tactile ( Build )

[RCHeliguy]

BTW for all the hate those exhausts got, they are still the 6th highest liked project out of 37 on Thingaverse. So apparently there are other people out there sporting a cool set of exhausts on their rig!

The top ten projects are in liked order.

1. Racing Glove Holder with over 500 downloads
2. The rotary Sim Knobs for BB, TC, ABS with over 400 downloads
3. The Button Box with only 196 downloads ( I'm curious if I will ever see a picture of one in the wild)
4. Camelback Cup Holder ( Sim Racing God ) with over 300 downloads
5. Camelback Cup Holder with no text almost 200 downloads
6. Twin Dual exhausts with about 100 downloads
7. SC 2 Emergency box with 154 downloads
8. Phone holder with 85 downloads
9. 40 series velcro strap
10. SC 2 mount cover

 

[RCHeliguy]

I've got my 5th belt sorted.
First I attached the anti-submarine belt to the 40x80 profile that my flight stick mounts to.

Then I just ran the belt underneath the cushion so it is pushing on the front lip of my seat shell and it pulls up on the underside of the cushion from the front of my seat. It's starting to get crushed just a bit where it pulls through, which is fine by me. It's basically making it's own slot.

Most importantly I can make it pretty tight and still be comfortable!
For the win! No additional modifications necessary!

 

[RCHeliguy]

Now to the SimXperience G-Belt!

I'm really loving this bit of kit!

It feels like it's the last piece to a puzzle that makes the whole experience real.

Proper tension for maximum effect:
When I first got it setup, I could feel it and it was OK, but tensioning the 5th belt made a very clear difference. There is a lot more detail when the belts being pulled have an anchor point and having an anti-submarine belt means I don't need my lap belt nearly as tight, so the experience is both more comfortable, and more detailed. Where I have the 5th belt positioned is something I'm very willing to deal with even if it is an extra step.

System noise:
The Actuator control box has a Meanwell PS fan that I can hear when I'm not in game. In game, I can't hear it at all. I also have a cooling fan on the front of my rig blowing on me. The two G-Belt actuators do make a tiny bit of sound like little suspension creaks, but it's not intrusive and I tuned it out pretty quickly.

The Effects:
There are quite a few effects, I've not tried them all out yet.

Braking:
This is clearly the biggest benefit of this system and once I had it dialed in to taste, the feeling was very good and it is definitely deceleration based and not based on just the brake pedal . If your tires break free or start to slide the belt pressure drops off. It does feel very linear to how hard I'm slowing down. I can feel the initial pull and then feel it let off while I'm trail braking and then disappear when I'm off the brakes.

Cornering:
The two actuators pull to either side in corners and when sliding. This effect definitely adds to the realism.

Bumps:
When the car goes over a bump and you hit the top of that bump the belts pull on you. I think this does a great job of reinforcing motion.

Gear Change Effect:
I need to play with this some more, but you can have it quickly tighten or loosen with each gear change and each gear is independently configurable. So you might have more of an effect in lower gears than higher gears. It is well synchronized with the NLRv3 rocking fore/aft as the clutch disengages an reengages.

I'm currently using Pitch Angle and Pitch Acceleration just because I saw Anton was using those effect.

I've only been playing with for a short while and I'm already extremely happy with how this is working, but I'm sure I can tune it more.

I just spent this morning adjusting everything as a system:

Tactile tweaks in SimHub.
Trying out a True Drive Paddock cloud profile from JonMillerRacing on my SC2 Pro ( I like it )
Tweaking my NLRv3 settings as well.
Tweaking my G-Belt
Adjusting the tension to my 5th belt to be just right.

When it's all working well together, well.... I double posted this next bit.

Braking into a corner feeling the seatbelts pulling me hard, losing traction feeling the seatbelts loosen a bit while the BK-CT on my seat is giving me a great wheel slide tactile effect and the NLRv3 is tilting to the side. Then regaining control and getting the side to side wobble along with the belts cornering effect and blasting out of a slide while having a bit of road texture under wheel. The gear shifts with a bit of NLRv3 fore/aft rock, a clunk from the BK-CT and the coordinated seatbelt action is magical

 

[anton_Chez]

Nice to see you've had success with it. I will admit that I've actually not used mine for a few weeks now. I was really sick a short while after getting it and setting it up, and I found it difficult to breath at the best of times. So when I did actually manage to do my races, in pain, I understandably left the belts and the unit completely off. Since I've been so used to driving like that since I removed motion and shortly after, the harness, I got used to just leaving it off.

Today I finally connected the 5th point belt (without the 2 lap belts, so effectively a 3 point system) and ran the G Belt again in full anger in AMS2 (of course while still testing out graphics settings, forever tweaking....). It's a super good bit of kit. I've not used the system with the lap belts for a while, so I'll have to remove the 5th point and return it to a 4 point system for a point of reference. But after getting used to having the belt between my legs, it definitely did not feel any worse than having the lap belts connected without the 5th point. I actually like not having to mess about with the lap belts, as you don't really need them with the G-Belt if you're using a 5th point. They don't really move anywhere while the unit is pulling the shoulder straps and unless you have motion with actuators and a passive system for the lap belts, they are basically redundant.

Once I make the comparison I'll post some thoughts. But my posts in the G-Belt thread with my settings are what I am going to stick with. I've curated the list of effects to only include effects that a) actually work and b) make sense for the unit and what it tries to achieve. I still have to tune the individual effects a little more but for the time being the experience is pretty great. I feel like I want to turn my tactile up a bit more now to make sure it comes through to my body more when the G-Belt is doing its thing.

 

[RCHeliguy]

After feeling the sensations of the G-Belt, I've pretty well decided that I'll never need a surge system.

Based on how good the G-Belt works I'm betting that a G-Seat would likely be better than a motion traction loss system. The key issue being that it never runs out of motion and can make you feel the appropriate side pressure for as long as you need.

I think that makes potential future upgrades a LOT easier. I think adding a G-Seat and moving to 4 post chassis motion system would be all I would ever want. The only reason I would go to a 4 post chassis mover is to allow me to use whatever load cell braking values I want and not worry about the seat mover shutting down mid race. I'm very happy with my NLRv3, but I will acknowledge it as my weak link. Hopefully it lasts a long time. However if it ever fails I'll send it back for repair and stick with it until I move to a house with dedicated space.

 

[RCHeliguy]

I'm feeling a bit exhausted! I've not had so much fun running hot laps before. What the G-Belt is helping me realize is when I'm accidentally backing off the trail braking before completing a slower turn. I can feel that I'm letting go and the car is carrying more speed as a result.

I got down within 2.5 sec of the VRS time at Brands Hatch in the Ferrari 488 GT3 very quickly and completely by feel without watching their video. I just looked at the telemetry after 25 laps and I can see exactly what I need to shave that time down. I may actually be able to get within a second of the VRS time which is a pretty big deal for me.

I'm feeling like I'm learning to drive again with new information that isn't just for immersion but that I can actually use to drive faster!

 

[DrRob]

I'm feeling a bit exhausted! I've not had so much fun running hot laps before. What the G-Belt is helping me realize is when I'm accidentally backing off the trail braking before completing a slower turn. I can feel that I'm letting go and the car is carrying more speed as a result.

I got down within 2.5 sec of the VRS time at Brands Hatch in the Ferrari 488 GT3 very quickly and completely by feel without watching their video. I just looked at the telemetry after 25 laps and I can see exactly what I need to shave that time down. I may actually be able to get within a second of the VRS time which is a pretty big deal for me.

I'm feeling like I'm learning to drive again with new information that isn't just for immersion but that I can actually use to drive faster!

Awesome! Sounds like you found a really good tool to up the immersion factor AND make you faster.
Would you say the G-belt could be used without a motion platform or would that be a completely stupid idea?

 

[anton_Chez]

I use mine without motion. I prefer this to motion.

 

[RCHeliguy]

I doubt I could add to what was just said. It's a perfect case and point.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Let's add a bit of reality check to this. As much as anton_Chez likes his G-Belt, he has had the G-Belt suddenly stop. In another group there is a guy selling his G-Belt and yet another guy who says he stopped using his 4 months ago because he had issues with his G-Belt reliably starting. He complained about buggy software and requiring reboots. I don't have specifics so I don't know if anything has been fixed since then.

I did have to go through a few extra steps during the installation process to get the drivers to download, but this was resolved quickly and I had a tech support reply within a few hours. So at least we know that their tech support is responsive.

So far I've only used this in iRacing and as history has shown in many reports over the years with a variety of products, most software and hardware works well with iRacing. Most issues are when working with other software titles. People have made comments about some odd issues with ACC for example.

This is a fairly new product and I'm still a kid with a new shiny toy. So take my initial "Wow" with a grain of salt. I still haven't tried it with Dirt Rally 2.0 and I initially gave up on SimVibe because I couldn't get it to work reliably with Dirty Rally 1.0.

I also see how people tend to use new products and have them turned up to 11 initially to feel the difference and then dial them back a bit over time. This goes for motion, tactile, FFB, and I suspect the G-Belt as well. While I was driving around the track I had the sense that I was driving faster because I could feel the braking transitions. It was a more visceral feeling and that was more exciting. I was just having a blast doing laps. The fun factor was high, but I'm still curious how I will feel after I get used to this over time. I felt like I was learning to drive again because of how different it felt. I'm very curious how I will feel after I've gotten used to having this extra information for a while.

 

[RCHeliguy]

After using the G-Belt in Dirt Rally 2.0 for a full Rally event, I will be glad when my real Sabelt Rally shoulder pads get here from Demon Tweeks. The side edges of the shoulder belts were biting into my neck while I was being thrown around. I think my head feels like it was thrown around harder because my harness which is tighter than I've ever set it was holding my body much more securely to the seat making my head more like a bobble head.

My hierarchy of usefulness of my controls and effects is changing.

Initially I remember saying that I was not initially impressed with the SC 2 Pro vs. my CS 2.5 wheelbase and over time my opinion of it improved. However since the addition of the True Drive Paddock cloud profiles, I am now much more impressed with my SC2 Pro. The FFB I'm getting now is vastly improved in Dirt Rally 2.0 and better in iRacing where it was already good just by having some very well tuned profiles available to me.

Order of importance to me now.

iRacing

1. SC2 Pro ( for detailed FFB and immersion )
2. Sprint brakes for good brake feel.
3. G-Belt ( for brake feel and cornering feel, and immersion )
4. Tactile ( for wheel spin feel, and immersion )
5. NLRv3 ( for immersion )

Dirt Rally 2

1. SC2 Pro ( for FFB and immersion )
2. Sprint throttle for good modulation.
3. NLRv3 ( motion makes all the difference in selling Rally! )
4. Tactile ( for immersion )
5. G-Belt ( for immersion )

In Dirt Rally 2 I am enjoying the feeling I get when I pull the hand brake around a corner and the braking sensation and Bump reinforcement feels good, but I don't think it will actually help me like it does on the track. I may feel differently after a while, but my initial gut reaction is nice addition for Rally, but not critical. This is the place where my NLRv3 really shines. Without it rally feels completely dead to me. It's possible that over time I'll feel things in the G-Belt that help me whip around corners more precisely. Time will tell.

 

[Elaphe]

I also see how people tend to use new products and have them turned up to 11 initially to feel the difference and then dial them back a bit over time. This goes for motion, tactile, FFB, and I suspect the G-Belt as well. While I was driving around the track I had the sense that I was driving faster because I could feel the braking transitions. It was a more visceral feeling and that was more exciting. I was just having a blast doing laps. The fun factor was high, but I'm still curious how I will feel after I get used to this over time. I felt like I was learning to drive again because of how different it felt. I'm very curious how I will feel after I've gotten used to having this extra information for a while.

With motion, at least for me, it happened the other way round. The first time I used my NJMotion Compact-R base I felt the inclination of the seat too exagerated, like driving a car with a very long suspension travel. I reduced the degrees of inclination. However, after some weeks with it, I got so used to motion that I have increased the degrees of incliantion again. Now it feels much more natural and inmersive than the first days of use.

 

[RCHeliguy]

after some weeks with it, I got so used to motion that I have increased the degrees of incliantion again. Now it feels much more natural and inmersive than the first days of use.

Fair enough. We are all individuals.

However that is almost the universal opposite of what I've heard from other people. Almost everyone turns down their motion with time.

The key exception to turning things down appears to be direct drive FFB strength and brake load cell max force. With many hours of use people get stronger and want more resistance.

 

[DrRob]

Interesting stuff. The G-Belt hasn't been on my radar yet. Now very intrigued by it. But it doesn't list ACC as compatible with the system, which would be a deal breaker for me.

Question: Is it less desirable to mount the G-Belt system on the height of the seat brackets like shown here? Maybe due to friction losses at the seat belt holes?

 

[RCHeliguy]

The G-Belt supports ACC and will automatically recognize it. It did when I installed it, but I haven't tried it out yet. Anton_Chez has as well as a couple other people here.

I've not tried the bottom mount. One person said he tried it both ways and it felt better mounted directly to the seat, but others have suggested that if you setup efficient rollers it should work fine. I'd likely 3D print something that custom fit the opening and press large roller bearings into it if I did that.

I do feel strongly that you want to get an anti-submarine belt for it to pull against so it doesn't lose detail pulling on your lap belts sideways. In my case I found an alternative mount forward of the slot on my seat since I don't have any urge to crush my nuts.

 

[blekenbleu]

Is it less desirable to mount the G-Belt system on the height of the seat brackets like shown here? Maybe due to friction losses at the seat belt holes?

Ideally, belt tensions should pull shoulders straight back, not down.
This is particularly important for e.g. anyone with herniated or degenerative lumbar disc.
For many, that position will be appreciably above seatback hole lower edges,
wanting rollers to translate horizontal from G-Belt's vertical tensions.
Rollers also usefully reduce friction and belt fabric wear
from being dragged over seatback hole grommets.

 

[DrRob]

@RCHeliguy @blekenbleu thank you for the feedback! The SimXperience website is a bit outdated and devoid of useful information.

 

[RCHeliguy]

@RCHeliguy @blekenbleu thank you for the feedback! The SimXperience website is a bit outdated and devoid of useful information.

Yeah, pretty much!
Luckily for them, I think this product sells more by word of mouth.

 

[blekenbleu]

I do feel strongly that you want to get an anti-submarine belt for it to pull against so it doesn't lose detail pulling on your lap belts sideways.

My shoulder belt tensioners add 20-25kg max each.
From habit, I loosen (2 inch) belts before unbuckling and retighten them after buckling.
When tightened, the lap belt does not move appreciably with shoulder belt tensioning.
In real track cars, I noted significant differences among lap belt models in ease of tightening;
Sabelt, Schroth and Tanaka were typically easier than Sparco..

The SimXperience website is a bit outdated and devoid of useful information.

Weirdly, it was recently replaced, at which point they deleted link to fora
which had been accessible only by current owners.

 

[metalnwood]

My 2 cents, the submarine is required for consistent feedback. When I wasnt using at and just the lap belts I found that when you start a session and have pulled them tight the lap belts will find a way to move a bit more so it changes the feeling. In the middle of stuff you have to live with it or tighten your belts again.

The submarine belt will not move any futher up so things stay the same through the whole session.

You certainly want the belts coming back to the high point in the seat belt holes so its pulling back and not down on you. It feels very different and wrong when they pull down on you. Mine used to run on a roller to remove any friction but as long as the surface is smooth I have found it could be something like the corner of 4040 extrusion which is what mine does now.

@RCHeliguy I remember the first time my seatbelt disconnected after I had been using it for a bit., I went right off track as I wasnt getting any feedback and just thought my brakes had failed and then stopped braking. Of course brakes dont fail like that in iracing but it caught me completely off guard when it wasnt there in that heavy braking zone..