Is VR dead?

[GeekyDeaks]

A picture is worth a thousand words so allow me to illustrate with the aid of some images as to how you feel when playing these genres in VR.

That last image nearly resulted in a keyboard strip down and clean Absolutely spot on from my perspective too. I tend to play RPGs, so just replace the shotgun with an axe...

 

[RobertR1]

Not everything needs to be "full on mainstream." Plenty of hobbies and technologies strive and thrive in smaller ecosystems.

 

[Bjarne Hansen]

Exclusive Hands-on: HP's New Reverb G2 is the King of Clarity

Today HP revealed its next-gen WMR headset, Reverb G2. While the original Reverb beat out the competition in resolution, some aspects of its display held it back from really capitalizing on all those pixels. Reverb G2 brings with it brand new displays and lenses which offer outstanding clarity...

www.roadtovr.com

Looks like displays and lenses are updated even they got same specs.
Guess we will not see a jump to second generation but more of a evolution development. Which is fine too.
I do not pre-order anything, but the review is promising!

 

[RCHeliguy]

The G2 is looking very good. In that review it was mentioned that there were even a few spots in Half Life Alex where it out resolved the detail.

Now Valve has started to release all the modding tools that will allow people to extend this game forever and not only add new content, but also adjust image maps etc..

I have to admit that the liquid sloshing around inside all the bottles now does look very impressive. I can only imagine what this will look like in a few more months.

 

[Bjarne Hansen]

Could you please explain this? Every time when I monitor usage of CPU and GPU when using VR in sims it's always the GPU which sits around 100% and CPU is around 30%. In addition going from 5700 XT to 2070 Super (same CPU) gave bump in performance as well.

That is not what I see!
Using AMS 2 which together with PC2 are a sim that utilizes Cpu cores better than most or all other sims?
If I setup graphics so it looks it's best on a i7 7700k @4.8 and a RTX 2070 for practice /time trail but also run smooth. Using the same settings in a AI race drops the load on the GPU and introduce some stutter special with weather enabled.
But I guess each settings and hardware are different and we get different results

 

[RCHeliguy]

Are you looking at the CPU's overall percentage or looking at the individual cores?
What you will typically see are one or two cores that are running very hot and a bunch that are not doing much at all.

My i9-9900K has a lot more cores than I need, but usually the majority of the game is running in a couple threads. The other threads handle my tranducers, motion, Crew Chief, VRS logger, Trading Paints, etc..

 

[Danny O'Neill]

Definitely worth a look, will have to start saving my pennies, the only thing i'm not sure about is the WMR, I've been an oculus man from the start

 

[Bjarne Hansen]

For sure all cores!
Got the same a couple of cores get loaded up and limited the fps/ settings.
Such a shame none of the sims are utilizing Dx 12 or Vulcan.
And no F1 2019 does not count

Using DXVK the DX 9-11 to Vulcan wrapper from here:

Jobs · Philip Rebohle / dxvk

:frog:

git.froggi.es

Loads up my GPU to 97 -98% in race against the Ai and free up the Cpu a little.
You do lose fps but gain smoothness in race with weather (AMS 2)
Unfortunately it only works in monitor view in VR it defaults back to Dx11.

 

[Slapped]

Definitely worth a look, will have to start saving my pennies, the only thing i'm not sure about is the WMR, I've been an oculus man from the start

Without doubt the Oculus ecosystem is more polished, but Steam + WMR is not bad it's just a bit more clunky, and don't forget to download WMR for Steam. As you've only got an RTX 2080 (LOL I say only) you'll likely need to fiddle around with the resolution settings in Steam to get the best framerates on the Reverb - not everything will run at full resolution on my 2080ti, but non modded Assetto Corsa (not Competitzione) runs beautifully at full res at only around 50% GPU utilisation with max settings, although I do have all the post processing turned off as I never liked what it did.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Preorders are up now. A bit hesitant to jump considering that the first batch of HP Reverb was a lemon.

HP Reverb G2 Worldwide Pre-Orders To Launch In June/July

Last week’s announcement of the HP Reverb G2 headset was met with excitement from the VR community. But, while the US can already pre-order the device, HP Reverb G2 worldwide pre-orders aren’t available yet. We know when they will be, though. During a presentation announcing the headset at

uploadvr.com

Plus taking preorders now and shipping worldwide in the fall 2020? What if something better comes out before that?

 

[Locoblade]

Yeh assuming I get on with the secondhand Odyssey I'm buying I'll probably wait at least until the first reviews come out before commiting, whether that will be still during the pre-order period or not I'm not sure.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Plus taking preorders now and shipping worldwide in the fall 2020? What if something better comes out before that?

Put a 3080Ti on that this Fall and it should be nirvana for many.

I'm making no predictions about how their initial release goes.

 

[maelstrom]

There is absolutely no reason VR is not in its prime RIGHT NOW. It's as good as it's ever been, and it's getting better every year.

Then why is the percentage of gamers using VR so small? The numbers may be higher for racers and flight simmers (both small, niche genres), but in the general PC gaming world, where it really matters, there are still less than 2% of users with VR headsets according to the Steam hardware survey. Mainstream? And, yes, I have tried it.

I refuse to believe that anyone that uses an Index or a Reverb today, can sit there and tell me they cannot enjoy a driving simulator.

Except for those like me who had to stop using VR because of persistent motion sickness. One estimate I read recently said there could be as many as 20% of gamers that have this problem so it's unlikely that monitors will disappear in the gaming world for the foreseeable future.

How is buying a racing rig, wheel and pedals specifically for the purpose of sim racing anything but 'niche' with respect to video gaming in general?

Spending a lot of money on game-related hardware doesn't stop the title or genre you buy if for from being niche. The racing sim world, like the flight sim world (the other significant VR genre), is very small in comparison to the overall gaming world where top titles can sell over 10 million copies. Most racing sim developers would kill for just 1% of those sales, even after years of availability.

 

[Slapped]

Except for those like me who had to stop using VR because of persistent motion sickness. One estimate I read recently said there could be as many as 20% of gamers that have this problem so it's unlikely that monitors will disappear in the gaming world for the foreseeable future.

Based on my experiences that might be right, but it really doesn't appear affect normal people.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Based on my experiences that might be right, but it really doesn't appear affect normal people.

I've had a LOT of people over who have tried VR on my rig. Since I added motion to my rig, that VAST majority have no problems.

My wife gets queasy easily in a real car. There is not much I can do for her.

I'm seeing about 1 in 10 who have problems in dirt rally since I got motion.

However without motion only 1 in 10 could handle dirt rally without getting nausea.

I personally spent 5 days earning my VR legs before I got motion. I expect many of these people could be desensitized similarly.

 

[anton_Chez]

As mentioned before, not everything has to be 'mainstream' before it's acceptable to use. In my case, I tend to stop doing something as soon as the masses have influence over it and destroy what was otherwise an enjoyable experience. People need to get over the fact that something not selling millions of units DOES NOT make it not worthwhile or ready to use. This mindset absolutely blows my mind. How many people out there have a 1080Ti / 2080 / 2080Ti? In the grand scheme of the gaming landscape? Probably not much more than those who own and use VR. Yet games are being pushed to make use of tech on those pieces of equipment. Two thousand Australian dollars for a graphics card is by definition a niche product. Yet no one seems to criticize the purchase or use of such hardware. Except for me I guess, boycotting that awful GPU generation.

The short sighted-ness of so many people astounds me. You get motion sickness using VR? Does that mean driving a car or travelling on a boat should be considered niche as well then? We are talking about sim racing, not the overall landscape of gaming. And in sim racing VR is an amazing addition. Not talking about anything else here.

In a survey dominated by notebook, laptops and general home computers who have no intention of running anything except for maybe Steam itself, it's a very flawed comparison to make when judging VR uptake. The Pimax kickstarter generated over 4 million dollars of funding, from people who even backed a headset that potentially was never going to exist in the 8KX. Tell me again how there isn't at least a small demand for this tech?

 

[maelstrom]

Based on my experiences that might be right, but it really doesn't appear affect normal people.

I'm pretty sure I’m a normal person!

 

[RCHeliguy]

As far as mainstream goes, I was just reading that Valve is officially supporting the HP Reverb G2 because they got caught with their pants down and could not keep up with Index demand. There has been a run on VR equipment so there will be a LOT more people with VR headsets.

This is a cake and eat it situation that caters to everyone.

More customers for VR headsets helps bring prices down and drives development for better equipment.

Valve sells more copies of Half Life Alyx which is the first VR game that has generated serious buzz in the gaming community. Beat Saber may be the most popular VR game, but Half Life Alyx is the first VR game that shows off what an immersive interactive game can be like VR. I fully expect that the G2 will work well in that game.

The G2 looks to be the first high end inside out solution which is great news for anyone who has decided base stations are an evil unnecessary expense. I'm impressed with what I've seen so far. This looks like the real deal.

Let's look at the big picture.

If you are a manufacturer designing a VR headset and you can license MS WMR (2?) or Steam's base station tracking and can license the Valve headset structure which is very comfortable along with magnetic face shield and off ear speakers, that leaves you to focus on the guts. Since it seems Valve is also involved with creating custom optics that potentially offloads even more design work.

These are great standards to start with and they will nearly guarantee that a product will be very usable.

Any guesses on where this will go?

HTC will be toast. They've got nothing left to bargain with and no place to be.
Oculus has a huge base and has basically got the low end but they are a closed proprietary solution.
Valve is securely at the top end working with multiple manufacturers and spreading good things.
MS has stepped up with a next gen WMR, there is life there.

Where Qualcom's 5G devices end up will be interesting and it will help grow the low end in a HUGE way.
The Oculus Go and Quest are already a snapdragon devices and Oculus may be in the best position to leverage this big push. Given their brand name, I would expect to see a slew of Oculus products leading this push using distributed graphics processing.
There will be competitors because the BIG manufacturers will see the volume expected here.

So where does that leave a BIG company like Samsung who is already going to be heavily into 5G smart phones?
Can you imagine that they won't be a huge part of this 5G VR movement?
Could they build a great VR headset especially if they leverage the existing standards? Sure. But if there is a market of potentially hundreds of millions of 5G VR headsets coming soon, where do you think they will be investing their billions?
The could do both. We KNOW they will be all over 5G VR or possibly 5G AR.

 

[maelstrom]

Does that mean driving a car or travelling on a boat should be considered niche as well then? We are talking about sim racing, not the overall landscape of gaming.

Niche: “denoting or relating to products, services, or interests that appeal to a small, specialized section of the population”. Following that definition, some types of boats might be niche, the same with some specific types of car but, in general, neither are. You can’t compare sim racing to itself, you have to compare it to gaming, overall. That’s why it’s niche (because it’s only a small genre in the huge gaming universe).

 

[GeekyDeaks]

Niche: “denoting or relating to products, services, or interests that appeal to a small, specialized section of the population”

I probably overreacted to the 'niche' thingy. Apologies. I don't mind the word and that it's applied to sim racing or VR as personally I think it's true. What I find a little frustrating is when when a 'pro' racer (or anyone else for that matter) uses the the fact that VR is 'niche' as an argument not to use it for sim racing. There are a lot of very good reasons not to use VR, but trying to use the excuse they are 'niche' with regard to sim racing just strikes me that the person making the argument hasn't really thought it through properly, or they don't really have an appreciation of the effort (not to mention money) sim racers put into their hobby