Is VR dead?

[Locoblade]

Businesses won't invest without a use case and profit potential. They see one with 5g XR which is why there is a wave of new technology on the horizon. Military tech is a different story, but still takes a long time to trickle down to the consumer sector. Point still stands - the obsolescence curve and early adoption costs are too steep at this point in time for me to justify a purchase.

The way you're talking about early adoption and costs being too steep you'd think VR headsets had only been on the market for 6 months and cost thousands to own. In reality I don't see the obslescence curve of a VR headset being any worse than a top end graphics card or CPU costing similar amounts, all 3 will technically be superceded by better products within a year but it doesn't mean they can't give you 3-5 years of good service before really needing replacing. A Rift CV1 from 2016 won't be as good as a more modern headset but it's still perfectly useable and capable of giving the VR wow factor to someone that's not tried anything better.

 

[Fennario]

Not sure how that contradicts anything I've said... businesses are investing in XR tech b/c there is a use case and profit potential. Doesn't change the fact that the timeline for consumer products and associated applications/compatibility utilizing the technology is still several years out.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Guess we all live in the future then, for the last 4 years.

 

[RCHeliguy]

I have a customer using AR for hardware support right now. Customers pay an extra fee to have a expert looking over their shoulders by camera, who gives them verbal instructions and displays schematics, part information and assembly/disassembly instructions to them to help them fix issues immediately without waiting for a service technician to come on site.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Guess we all live in the future then, for the last 4 years.

Agreed! I'm loving VR right now and have enjoyed it for quite a while.

If it's too rich for your blood wait. If not it's a lot of fun.

Will it continue to improve? Absolutely!

I've had a smart phone for many years now. They have improved a great deal since I first got one. That doesn't mean that my earlier smart phones were not useful to me when I had them.

 

[Fennario]

All valid points. Have been speaking to the issue with respect to consumer gaming products and my personal budget. My focus was too narrow for the broad statements I was making, and did not mean to imply that there were not enterprise use cases re: use of currently available products.

Pimax would be an example of what I was getting at. On paper it looks perfect, but in practice it is several thousand dollars, has buggy drivers/support, poor build quality, and is incapable of running at max settings in a sim with a high frame rate. In a couple of years its capability will be available in a much better form factor, at a lower cost, with much better UI/UE. I would rather wait and buy into the technology once it has matured a bit more and is plug/play.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Your call, your money.

I'm loving my Index right now. Sure it takes a powerful computer to drive it well, but I've got one of those. I know I'll replace it within two years and that doesn't bother me. I'm enjoying it now.

My son has been into gaming for years and has been continually upgrading his computers, so this is no different.

 

[GeekyDeaks]

His short answer is that it's not ready yet, will remain a niche technology for the short term, and don't waste your money trying to keep up with the bleeding edge at this point in time.

I'm quite willing to accept the opinion of anyone that has tried VR and find the compromises unacceptable. I think it's a very subjective topic and each to their own. I have several friends who find the whole experience discomforting enough to stick with monitors. My issue really is when people start to use the term 'niche'. How is buying a racing rig, wheel and pedals specifically for the purpose of sim racing anything but 'niche' with respect to video gaming in general? You might argue that you don't need to upgrade them, which is fine, but I don't actually know of anyone personally that is 100% happy with everything about their setup to the point that they would not consider upgrading/changing something if the opportunity arose

EDIT: that probably came across as way more aggressive than it was meant to. I'm just astonished when I see the effort people put into this hobby on things which seem so insignificant to me at face value, so when people throw blasé comments around at specific parts of it I get a bit grumpy... apologies...

 

[Fennario]

No offense taken and did not intend for the use of niche to be pejorative, just to indicate a small specialized market. In my instance I chose to spend the money on a direct drive wheel, pedals, and an 8020 rig with a VR upgrade down the road vs. a cheaper rig + VR now. Just as extravagant and open to criticism, but feel that I will get more use/longevity/enjoyment for the money spent. Big believer in “do it once, do it right, and don’t do it again.”

 

[mechsicko]

Hate to be the naysayer and certainly wish I was wrong about more than GPU vs. CPU being the limiting factor. Also very glad that you enjoy the experience and am not trying to take anything away from that. Not going to reveal sources, and as such understand if it is discounted, but my thoughts on this have been influenced by someone heavily involved with VR development at a major company and professional racer IRL (knew Fangio, Dallara, etc.). His short answer is that it's not ready yet, will remain a niche technology for the short term, and don't waste your money trying to keep up with the bleeding edge at this point in time.

Counterpoint: my uncle works at Nintendo and he says it is so

 

[Fennario]

Counterpoint: my uncle works at Nintendo and he says it is so

Cool - maybe he was there when Greg Fischbach starting importing Super Famicon games over from Japan.

 

[GeekyDeaks]

I chose to spend the money on a direct drive wheel, pedals, and an 8020 rig with a VR upgrade down the road vs. a cheaper rig + VR now

That to me is a far more reasoned argument and I also try to follow the 'do it once, do it right' approach. It's tricky to follow for certain elements of technology though. I'm pretty sure the PC I have now will need to be upgraded in 5 years to keep pace with developments

did not intend for the use of niche to be pejorative, just to indicate a small specialized market

This is the bit that I have an issue with and I feel like it's missing the point. We are discussing this topic around sim racing, which by itself is a specialised market in which people go to great lengths to personalise. To chuck some arbitrary figures around, iRacing has reported subs increased to 160,000 since covid-19 hit, oculus quest reported sales of over 400,000 prior to that and sales of GTA 5 were 130 million

 

[Deleted member 197115]

That to me is a far more reasoned argument and I also try to follow the 'do it once, do it right' approach.

Everything is evolving, I am on my second DD wheel. Some went through 3 iterations already. No difference really.
As much as I love my SC2, buck for immersion VR wins hands down.

 

[Fennario]

This is the bit that I have an issue with and I feel like it's missing the point. We are discussing this topic around sim racing, which by itself is a specialised market in which people go to great lengths to personalise. To chuck some arbitrary figures around, iRacing has reported subs increased to 160,000 since covid-19 hit, oculus quest reported sales of over 400,000 prior to that and sales of GTA 5 were 130 million

We are discussing this in light of sim racing, but need to bear in mind the macroeconomics which have a major impact on the viability, development and distribution of the underlying systems. The numbers you quote are that of a small market when compared to overall gaming market and/or the mobile gaming market which will be what financially supports this next generation of hardware.

Everything is evolving, I am on my second DD wheel. Some went through 3 iterations already. No difference really.

Agreed, I have a closet filled with obsolete technology I spent untold thousands of dollars on. As I've gotten older I've tried my best to reduce what that closet collects. One day my future grandkids are going to have a field day.

 

[Fennario]

Also wanted to add this... living on the bleeding edge with audio, photography, and computers is a lot of fun when it works right. After a many a year the config issues and cost of constant upgrading burnt me out. Now I wait for the tech to sort itself out before I put my money on the table. Have also developed a large amount of skepticism from the audio world of snake oil, magic $10,000 speaker cables, and golden ears.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Also wanted to add this... living on the bleeding edge with audio, photography, and computers is a lot of fun when it works right. After a many a year the config issues and cost of constant upgrading burnt me out. Now I wait for the tech to sort itself out before I put my money on the table. Have also developed a large amount of skepticism from the audio world of snake oil, magic $10,000 speaker cables, and golden ears.

I've done much of the same, but let me assure you that I got an Oculus Rift 2 years ago and it worked beautifully.

The Valve Index I have now is working beautifully.

I have had many heated debates with audiophiles who believe in magic. I'm an electrical engineer and not prone to superstition.

VR is not magic. Being able to look into a corner naturally is so much better than a screen. I would never have even tried sim racing if it wasn't for VR.

The points you make about buying what I would call durable items first makes sense. VR is still advancing quickly and requires escalating computer hardware. However it sounds more like you are trying to find all the negatives you can to help justify your decision.

I go back to my earlier comment since you just unreinforced it. If you couldn't buy everything you wanted up front and are having to time your purchases, as long as a screen is adequate for now, that's fine. Eventually you'll enjoy VR and understand what we are talking about.

 

[Fennario]

More trying to find all the available information and insight from knowledgeable sources (of which this forurm/thread is certainly one). Probably inserting some confirmation bias as well re: the delayed purchase. On the financial front, given everything that is going on, felt that the expenditure was extravagant enough as-is. Once again, better to be prudent (somewhat) in the short term until things shake themselves out and bear in mind how lucky I am.

 

[Locoblade]

Also VR is an enabler to some like me. I've recently returned to simming and don't currently have space for a full time rig so have to make do with a wheel stand set up in the study/wife's office whenever I want to sim. Because of that triple screens or even a large ultrawide screen are out of the question at the moment so my viewing choices are between a single 24" monitor on a desk, or a VR headset. I'm currently just borrowing an old Rift CV1 for VR until I get my own but despite the significant reduction in visual quality compared to a monitor, it gives me a far bigger "viewing surface" than a 24" monitor ever could do without taking up any space in the house.

That's without considering the massive jump in immersion that playing in 3D gives, even if it's visually not as sharp as a monitor display. To give an example of the effect that has, I used to do a lot of trackdays in a Caterham type kit car so the other day I downloaded a track I used to drive along with a Caterham car mod for AC. When I exited the pit lane the first few times in VR in that car I found myself instinctively looking over my shoulder to check the track was clear because the level of immersion triggered my brain's "muscle memory" into doing things it would do in real life, something that would never happen if just playing on a monitor.

 

[Slapped]

@Fennario You have some valid points regarding VR and despite the fact that I'm a total VR enthusiast I must say that VR suits certain genres far better than others. A picture is worth a thousand words so allow me to illustrate with the aid of some images as to how you feel when playing these genres in VR.

Spoiler: Racing Sim in VR

Spoiler: Flight Sim in VR

Spoiler: First person shooter in VR

 

[Fennario]

I think I get it... the Perazzi will maintain its value and functionality for a lifetime; and is something you can still use/enjoy when you're 80.