Is VR dead?

Locoblade · May 29, 2020

I had a couple of secondhand WMR options but have settled on a Samsung Odyssey. For those wanting a cheap WMR headset (compared to the generally inflated eBay prices) the other one I had lined up was a Dell Visor for £150 that a nice chap in Swindon is selling on Facebook Marketplace. As I've now let him down I thought the least I could do was mention it to see if it helps someone here and him find a sale as they're very similar to the other WMR headsets but seemingly not that common so perhaps not something people immediately think to search for

Slapped · May 29, 2020

Andrew_WOT said:
If you use Steam WMR it doesn't even load.

Yeah, I know - that's how I get round it. But I still don't understand why everybody seems to want to use some bloody house as a virtual launcher.

Fennario · May 29, 2020

As much as I wish things were different, VR is not ready for prime time and probably won't be for at least another 5 years.

Issues:
1. No killer app unless you count beat saber.
2. Graphics cards are insufficient for high frame rates at high resolution (even next gen 3080ti)
3. Headseat comfort/weight/temps/etc. for extended use
4. No diopter adjustment for use without corrective lenses/astigmatism/etc.
5. FOV
6. Price
7. Motion sickness/headaches

Bjarne Hansen · May 29, 2020

Fennario said:
1. No killer app unless you count beat saber.
2. Graphics cards are insufficient for high frame rates at high resolution (even next gen 3080ti)
3. Headseat comfort/weight/temps/etc. for extended use
4. No diopter adjustment for use without corrective lenses/astigmatism/etc.
5. FOV
6. Price
7. Motion sickness/headaches

Answers:
1. Could not care less what other people like to play! So have no use for a killer app. Have proudly never tried Beat Saber or any othe rnone sim game for that matter. Race sim's in VR are killer apps to me.

2. Somehow I doubt you got a VR Headset? Hardly any Race sim is limited by the GPU most if not all by the CPU. Most None-Sim VR app runs happy one a GTX 1050ti.

3. Well if you sit on your head for extended periods I guess! But most of us do not!

4. And why should that be on all headset if it is only a fraction that needs them and can use glasses or get lens adaptor

5. FOV? Well they do have FOV? And there are headset like the PiMax that got plenty and Index isn't bad ether.

6 Price?
Right now they are expensive but I got my headset on sale for $219 others got theirs for less. Topend is expensive regardless what market you look at. When the world settles down again the market will be flooded with affordable hardly used VR Headsets.

7. Motion sickness/headaches?
Sure it sucks for the small fraction that can't get over that, but the same people likely can't sit in back of a car or even comfortable look at a photo of a sailboat without getting motion sick.

anton_Chez · May 29, 2020

So, this Reverb is awesome! Short time I've been with it, super super good. How do I use that Steam WMR? I tried but it seems to do nothing. I have the WMR home running in the background. I wonder if getting rid of that will give me some performance back.

Also, can anyone here remind me of what I need to do to get a gamepad to act as a controller for SteamVR? I forget how I did it with the Pimax 5K+ when I had it. Without the button now I had on the Index, I need a way to access the SteamVR desktop without having to use the bloody Reverb controllers. What I used to do is, press and hold the PS button and that would bring up a little circle for a couple of seconds before sending me to the desktop.

I don't know if I have to bind a button manually, or what. I completely forget how I did it. I'll look more into it over the weekend but if anyone uses this method, please let me know.

anton_Chez · May 29, 2020

Fennario said:
As much as I wish things were different, VR is not ready for prime time and probably won't be for at least another 5 years.

Issues:
1. No killer app unless you count beat saber.
2. Graphics cards are insufficient for high frame rates at high resolution (even next gen 3080ti)
3. Headseat comfort/weight/temps/etc. for extended use
4. No diopter adjustment for use without corrective lenses/astigmatism/etc.
5. FOV
6. Price
7. Motion sickness/headaches

This sounds like a post of someone that has not tried VR at all. There is absolutely no reason VR is not in its prime RIGHT NOW. It's as good as it's ever been, and it's getting better every year. Gone are the days of only having the CV1 to pick from when wanting a VR experience. I refuse to believe that anyone that uses an Index or a Reverb today, can sit there and tell me they cannot enjoy a driving simulator. That IS the killer app for VR. Except it's not an app you will forget once you're done with it. It's a lifestyle. Racing doesn't get old. It's part of you if you're into it enough.

There is no way I'd EVER go back to a screen because VR is not good enough. That's just absurd. For those that say this, today, VR will NEVER be good enough for them. I want ALL the things I listed as issues to be perfect in the new headsets, but I don't want to pay for it, because they're now too 'expensive'. A little perspective goes a long way, for a lot of things.

Bjarne Hansen · May 29, 2020

Slapped said:
Yeah, I know - that's how I get round it. But I still don't understand why everybody seems to want to use some bloody house as a virtual launcher.

It is also to me something completely pointless!
That MicroSoft have not made a free great app to run exclusive in the cliff house is mind bugling to me? How that company ever got so large is a mystery?

Fennario · May 29, 2020

Hate to be the naysayer and certainly wish I was wrong about more than GPU vs. CPU being the limiting factor. Also very glad that you enjoy the experience and am not trying to take anything away from that. Not going to reveal sources, and as such understand if it is discounted, but my thoughts on this have been influenced by someone heavily involved with VR development at a major company and professional racer IRL (knew Fangio, Dallara, etc.). His short answer is that it's not ready yet, will remain a niche technology for the short term, and don't waste your money trying to keep up with the bleeding edge at this point in time.

anton_Chez · May 29, 2020

Well I look forward to everyone else telling me how I should live the other aspects of my life as well.......

VR is ready. For me and for the majority of people who use it, especially for sim racing. There is no debating this.

Fennario · May 29, 2020

Fair enough... I choose to listen to advice from an expert in the field who I know and trust. Since you neither know nor trust me, and you have a different experience with the technology, I don't expect you to.

anton_Chez · May 29, 2020

Slapped said:
Yeah, I know - that's how I get round it. But I still don't understand why everybody seems to want to use some bloody house as a virtual launcher.

I downloaded and launch the WMR Steam VR in Steam, and all it does is load up the WMR Portal along with SteamVR. Is it supposed to do anything different? Is WMR like Oculus where you have to have at least some version of the software running while using VR? I think when I launch WMR Steam VR, I go straight to the SteamVR grid. Is that what you guys mean when talking about bypassing the house thing?

Deleted member 197115 · May 29, 2020

Fennario said:
Fair enough... I choose to listen to advice from an expert in the field who I know and trust. Since you neither know nor trust me, and you have a different experience with the technology, I don't expect you to.

Ever thought of trying one instead of listening to the "experts"?

"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take" W. Gretzky

Deleted member 197115 · May 29, 2020

anton_Chez said:
I downloaded and launch the WMR Steam VR in Steam, and all it does is load up the WMR Portal along with SteamVR. Is it supposed to do anything different? Is WMR like Oculus where you have to have at least some version of the software running while using VR? I think when I launch WMR Steam VR, I go straight to the SteamVR grid. Is that what you guys mean when talking about bypassing the house thing?

Yes, it goes straight to the grid bypassing WMR Cliff House or whatever they call it.

karoliens · May 29, 2020

Bjarne Hansen said:
Answers:
1. Could not care less what other people like to play! So have no use for a killer app. Have proudly never tried Beat Saber or any othe rnone sim game for that matter. Race sim's in VR are killer apps to me.

2. Somehow I doubt you got a VR Headset? Hardly any Race sim is limited by the GPU most if not all by the CPU. Most None-Sim VR app runs happy one a GTX 1050ti.

3. Well if you sit on your head for extended periods I guess! But most of us do not!

4. And why should that be on all headset if it is only a fraction that needs them and can use glasses or get lens adaptor

5. FOV? Well they do have FOV? And there are headset like the PiMax that got plenty and Index isn't bad ether.

6 Price?
Right now they are expensive but I got my headset on sale for $219 others got theirs for less. Topend is expensive regardless what market you look at. When the world settles down again the market will be flooded with affordable hardly used VR Headsets.

7. Motion sickness/headaches?
Sure it sucks for the small fraction that can't get over that, but the same people likely can't sit in back of a car or even comfortable look at a photo of a sailboat without getting motion sick.

Could you please explain this? Every time when I monitor usage of CPU and GPU when using VR in sims it's always the GPU which sits around 100% and CPU is around 30%. In addition going from 5700 XT to 2070 Super (same CPU) gave bump in performance as well.

RCHeliguy · May 29, 2020

So a big new push for 5G XR, with a new standard and potential for many vendors.

Fennario · May 29, 2020

RCHeliguy said:
So a big new push for 5G XR, with a new standard and potential for many vendors.

Thank you for posting this... the Qualcom slide at 9:30 in the video corroborates what I was trying to say before - both headset and distribution technology are evolving at a rapid pace, new standards are still being set, and at this point it is not worth the implementation cost given where things will be in 2-5 years.

To the degree the killer apps are limited to simulators there will never be large investments in hardware/softare... just not enough consumers. There needs to be mass market sales and appeal.

Also, given the current global situation the ability to test/try/buy VR is extremely limited.

Deleted member 197115 · May 29, 2020

karoliens said:
Could you please explain this? Every time when I monitor usage of CPU and GPU when using VR in sims it's always the GPU which sits around 100% and CPU is around 30%. In addition going from 5700 XT to 2070 Super (same CPU) gave bump in performance as well.

I do not 100% agree that it's always CPU as after moving to i9-9900K my 1080Ti has become a bottleneck but pretty much all sims use single rendering thread, and thread can only run on one core at a time.

Deleted member 197115 · May 29, 2020

Fennario said:
To the degree the killer apps are limited to simulators there will never be large investments in hardware/softare... just not enough consumers. There needs to be mass market sales and appeal.

You forget enterprise and military.

Fennario · May 29, 2020

Businesses won't invest without a use case and profit potential. They see one with 5g XR which is why there is a wave of new technology on the horizon. Military tech is a different story, but still takes a long time to trickle down to the consumer sector. Point still stands - the obsolescence curve and early adoption costs are too steep at this point in time for me to justify a purchase.

Deleted member 197115 · May 29, 2020

Fennario said:
Businesses won't invest without a use case and profit potential. They see one with 5g XR which is why there is a wave of new technology on the horizon. Military tech is a different story, but still takes a long time to trickle down to the consumer sector. Point still stands - the obsolescence curve and early adoption costs are too steep at this point in time for me to justify a purchase.