Is VR dead?

[RCHeliguy]

I would be curious about the highest limiting CPU.

My i9 frequently has a low overall number, but one of the cores is running hard and the limiting factor.

 

[HoiHman]

@HoiHman does the Index work with SFX100, can you hold it with your hands or do you get grey screens, like the Vive Pro and Pimax are having?

- Yes perfect tracking with the SFX100, seatbelt tensioner servo + GS-5 servos, but when the SFX100 servo's are up, i can only touch it in the middle. 2 hands on the side + grey screen.

-The solution for putting the Index on your head will be the next release of SimFeedback with the extensions plugin, which i'm beta testing now. We have creating a plugin which allows you to assign a simfeedback start/stop button to any device that is connect to your PC. Put the index on your head and start simfeedback with the press of a button. No grey screens

Are you using Lighthouse 2.0? How many? Did you need controllers to set it up?

-2.0 lighthouse, no controllers needed. Standing experience

Is it hot on your face in the summer? Can you race for hours continuously? Because didn’t you have your Rift CV1 without foam hanging in front of your face (very cool, no trapped air)?

-Yes i can race for hours, it's very comfortable with simwind. Have you ears free and feel the wind blowing past them is pretty cool

Do you need to have your Index audio louder than Rift (relatively) in order to drain out the noise of the motion/GS-5? Is it better than Rift CV1?

-The audio is very good and loud. It's louder than the CV1 and does a better job in blocking out the motion noises of my rig that the CV1. I never saw that coming

Are you getting 120fps with native SS in AC/rF2 etc? What compromise did you need to make if any? You got the 2080Ti right? What CPU?

- Flat 120fps during hot lap with 85% GPU utilization in AC, but only 80-90 fps with a full grid. I could not get smoothing working in AC yet.

Thanks!

- Your welcome

P.S. what about your Reverb? Any good compared to Index?

- Not even remotely in the same league, the index wins on all fronts and is the better HMD.

Even at lower fps the clarity of the screen combined with the rich colours and great contrast, give a real good feeling of presence, During races i have perfect tracking, better than oculus ever was with the 2x 2.0 light houses. Sometime though when i take the HMD of and put it back on 5-10 minutes later it stays grey and needs restarting, but these are minor problems compared to the HP reverb.

 

[HugoB]

@HoiHman Amazing! Thanks for the clear answers It seems workable with the SFX100, that’s the most important. And we don’t need to do any audio modifications, that’s the second most important thing for me. I’m glad you took the plunge for us to buy both Reverb and Index, since only a direct comparison can give any clear answer which one is the overall better HMD for simracing with motion.

One last question though, I’ve been racing with the CV1 a couple years now, which maintained in the sweetspot nicely even with extreme motion, how is the Index or the Reverb? Do you need to adjust the HMD during racing to get it back in sweetspot position? Or does it just stay sharp like the Rift CV1 while bouncing around?

 

[Deleted member 197115]

VoodooDE just posted English version of Index review.

 

[HoiHman]

Again here the Index the clear winner, i has almost edge to egde clearity and if you want to go with more intense motion profiles, you can just twist the knob on the back to thightenit even more so it stays secure. This can be done while driving without taking it of.

We have all gotten used to moving our heads instead of eyes, but for example if you're in a corner and looking at the apex with the dead center of your HMD, that's 100% clear.

At the same time your eyes automatically take a quick glance at the car in front of you, which is because it has gone through the corner, obviously off center of the HMD. With the Index that car can be seen as sharp as the apex in the center and it's not so blurry as with all the other HMD's

That edge to edge clarity, combined with the rich colours and contrast gives the Index the feeling of presence. If you add the 120Hz mode to it, you having the best possible experience you can get right now.

Of course the resolution can be better but from my experience i have learned that the numbers (res) do not tell the whole picture.

The Index stays better in place, but also has better clarity when it's off center.

PS: i just realized that i haven't touched the IPD slider yet

I think i will be happy to use this HMD for the next couple of years until an new gen HMD comes out and the GPU's are there to really push.

My initial option always was: I'm getting the next Oculus HMD, that has changed in favour of Valve.
They really ticked all the important boxes with their HMD

 

[RCHeliguy]

My index can not get hear fast enough! I just finished a marathon 3 hour session of In Death getting a new high score of 1.4M ranking me 172nd overall. The Rift tracking is accurate enough until it gets confused. Looking forward to having a forward and rear diagonal setup vs. front facing cameras. I should put my 3rd Rift camera back up until the Index gets here. I took it down before a party a week back.

Had another In Death guy tell me his Rift S doesn't track nearly as well as his Rift did and he is holding his breath until his Index gets here. He just uses his Rift S for flight sim games right now.

I'm surprised to hear about the bright colors and contrast! That's not what some others have said. Of course the Rift is not known for deep color either, so I'll probably be fine with it.

 

[HugoB]

This one is nice

 

[RCHeliguy]

This looks like StarVR Déjà vu Called it!

As he says the Index is much sharper than the others and based on his examples, it looks like a pretty big improvement! Loving it!

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Index owners, check out your controllers joysticks, seems like some hardware defect crept in.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ValveIndex/comments/c722tj/valve_please_do_something_about_the_defective/
https://www.reddit.com/r/ValveIndex/comments/c6z16o/valve_employees_please_let_us_know_you_are_at/

 

[RCHeliguy]

That does look serious. Fingers crossed that they have this worked out before mine ship. Otherwise I may be waiting longer if they halt distribution. Unlike many of you, I will be giving my hand controllers a serious workout and will need the joysticks to work.

That said I'm not sure if I have any games that use the button clicks at the end of travel on the joy sticks. Usually I use them for snap turns and selection that ends when the joystick returns to center, so I may have never noticed this issue.

Things up until this point seemed a little too good to be true.

 

[HugoB]

Another question for Index owners: do you notice anything different due to the canted lens design? FOV? Is there noticeable less stereo overlap compared to previous parallel design HDM (Rift, Vive)?

 

[o Tiger Feet o]

Just came across this vid... Through the lens of the Knucklehead

Nice!

 

[RobertR1]

Gamermuscle index review:

Watch the review. It's well done but for the sound bites;

Good
- Sound / Headphones
- Vertical FOV and FOV adjustment
- Resolution - General Device comfort
- HMD price Insane value for money (without lighthouse or controllers)
- Tracking is ridiculously precise
- Expansion options with front USB
- Higher frame rate is really good for more competitive games
- Index controllers don't get in the way when reloading / feel very light
- The way you can let go and index controller stays in hand is fantastic

Bad
- Ghosting is REALLY BAD
- The sweet spot is still very small
- Horizontal FOV is only slightly bigger than older HMD's
- Headset gets quite warm on face
- Knuckles controllers joystick is bad quality
- Knuckles controllers buttons joystick touchpad are laid out badly
- Knuckles controllers make no sense for there price.
- Software still buggy / unfinished (cameras not working)

 

[Deleted member 197115]

@RobertR1, thanks for a recap of the review. Glad I didn't jump onto the first wave of preorders.
Guess at the moment it's more prudent to see what Cosmos and Samsung have to offer before jumping the gun esp. for non room scale crazy.
BTW, if anyone missed it, Rift S greatly improved tracking with their controllers.

 

[Steve D]

Gamermuscle index review:

Watch the review. It's well done but for the sound bites;

Good
- Sound / Headphones
- Vertical FOV and FOV adjustment
- Resolution - General Device comfort
- HMD price Insane value for money (without lighthouse or controllers)
- Tracking is ridiculously precise
- Expansion options with front USB
- Higher frame rate is really good for more competitive games
- Index controllers don't get in the way when reloading / feel very light
- The way you can let go and index controller stays in hand is fantastic

Bad
- Ghosting is REALLY BAD
- The sweet spot is still very small
- Horizontal FOV is only slightly bigger than older HMD's
- Headset gets quite warm on face
- Knuckles controllers joystick is bad quality
- Knuckles controllers buttons joystick touchpad are laid out badly
- Knuckles controllers make no sense for there price.
- Software still buggy / unfinished (cameras not working)

Agree with all the good but don't have a need for knuckle controllers so can't comment.

With regards the bad.

Ghosting? What ghosting? I'd say the complete opposite. Clarity, sharpness and extremely smooth performance at 90hz, without any re-projection, are superb, although my CPU / GPU combo helps. Even 120hz without re-projection is do-able with a few compromises and easily so if hot lapping.

I initially thought that the sweet spot was small and glancing in to mirrors especially was a bit blurry, unless you looked at them directly. However the correct fitment and adjustment of the headset is crucial to increasing this sweet spot and maximising clarity and small adjustments make a big difference.

Coming from a Pimax, the FOV is a bit of a disappointment but it's still around 105 / 110 degrees when measured using ROV Test, which is available from the Steam Workshop. For comparison the Pimax in Normal FOV mode measured 140 degrees, the Rift 95 degrees and the Vive Pro 100 degrees. Might not be a truly accurate measuring tool but the results are consistent.

Agree that software is buggy. Have experienced a few issues but it's early days.

 

[RCHeliguy]

The Rift S has improved tracking, but there are 3 areas that need improvement. This fix addresses only one of them, the particularly frustrating loss of tracking when the hand controllers are near the cameras by your face. That would solve the primary issue playing In Death.

They could fix the blind spot issue entirely by putting a couple inside out tracking cameras into the controllers, but that would dramatically impact battery life.

That would allow you do make defensive moves behind your back where the cameras on the headset can't see you. Some may argue that with the accelerators in the handsets that you would just need to make all actions behind you quickly and that may be good enough for many.

Once they have the blinds spots and other loss of tracking completely fixed, then there is accuracy to deal with if they want parity.

 

[RobertR1]

@RobertR1, thanks for a recap of the review. Glad I didn't jump onto the first wave of preorders.
Guess at the moment it's more prudent to see what Cosmos and Samsung have to offer before jumping the gun esp. for non room scale crazy.
BTW, if anyone missed it, Rift S greatly improved tracking with their controllers.

There VR market is expanding quickly so the idea of a single "champion" isn't going to happen anytime soon especially, like you said, there are even more sets of the horizon.

People should make a use case list and then filter out devices based on what fits the criteria and use the reviews to determine how much of a boost in those specific consideration points you're going to experience.

For the foreseeable future, my only VR use case is sit down simracing so I just focus on my priority list which is:
- FOV
- Clarity
- Fitment and comfort (including heat buildup and dissipation)
- tracking
- colors and black levels
- panel hz

So when I'm looking at a new release that's my check down list in that order.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

The Rift S has improved tracking, but there are 3 areas that need improvement. This fix addresses only one of them, the particularly frustrating loss of tracking when the hand controllers are near the cameras by your face. That would solve the primary issue playing In Death.

Near headset tracking was the primary issue addressed by that patch, just click on the link I posted.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Near headset tracking was the primary issue addressed by that patch, just click on the link I posted.

How can you read that and respond that way?
I specifically said that it only addressed one item and that was it.

 

[RCHeliguy]

I think my list in order would be

Clarity
Comfort including ergonomics of hand controllers.
Precise Tracking
Audio solution
screen fps
Quality of construction
FOV
colors black levels