Is VR dead?

  • Thread starter Deleted member 197115
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  • Deleted member 197115

There VR market is expanding quickly so the idea of a single "champion" isn't going to happen anytime soon especially, like you said, there are even more sets of the horizon.

People should make a use case list and then filter out devices based on what fits the criteria and use the reviews to determine how much of a boost in those specific consideration points you're going to experience.

For the foreseeable future, my only VR use case is sit down simracing so I just focus on my priority list which is:
- FOV
- Clarity
- Fitment and comfort (including heat buildup and dissipation)
- tracking
- colors and black levels
- panel hz

So when I'm looking at a new release that's my check down list in that order.
Really hope that LCD trend either stops or they move to higher quality LCD panels with local dimming, higher nits, and wider gamut, like Samsung QLED, may be even with HDR support.
OLED with pentile stripe needs more resolution i.e. more performance taxing than same subpixels count RGB.
How PSVR can use RGB OLED and others can't, that would be the best of both worlds.
 
Local dimming likely isn't going to happen due to the LED backlight adding mass and thickness. Next time you goto a Best Buy or Costco check out the thickness different between a edge lit panel and a blacklit panel with a high zone count. HDR at that close range to the eye might be interesting in how you control eye fatigue because the volume of light hitting your eyes is so high.

LCD is proven tech with an an economies of scale function and there's likely a chance that they buy the panels from a few display manufacturers so you're dependent on their R&D. Someone in the display space would have to see a volume business in the VR space and then you'd see an investment in OLED or whatever else.

For example, every consumer OLED TV is a LG Display's panel which is then sold to the different players to add their processing, sound, housing, inputs, etc onto it.
 
  • Deleted member 197115

Guess QLED technology can't be sized down to smaller displays either or Samsung would switch to that in their phones already.
I am sure will be missing Odyssey+ richness of colors and blacks in the next LCD HMD. :(
Would be interesting to see if Samsung follows the trend and sports LCD panels as well in their next HMD.
 
It's not a size thing for QLED. To me, it's a use case issue. QLED is just a filter that add to an LCD panels thus increasing thickness and complexity. It boost color volume which becomes more important for HDR when a high nits output will wash out colors and thus dropping the volume/saturation of the colors at higher nit levels. Light going through a QLED filter gets the filter color output boost thus preserving color saturation. My explanation likely sucks so here's John:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarcher/2017/09/19/what-is-qled-and-why-does-it-matter/#77337a097fb3

With that said, it's worth a shot so let's see if they do add it in future. You're right though. The PQ of the OD+ is stunning.
 
For the foreseeable future, my only VR use case is sit down simracing so I just focus on my priority list which is:
- FOV
- Clarity
- Fitment and comfort (including heat buildup and dissipation)
- tracking
- colors and black levels
- panel hz

So when I'm looking at a new release that's my check down list in that order.
I would add price or rather value!

- Clarity and that also include large sweet spot.
- Comfort Headset has to be light and comfortable
- FOV
- Colors
- Tracking
- Variable Frequency Panels.
- Value. Not against paying top dollars for right HMD but will not for something that isn't top.

And for me tracking is Inside-out or similar simple cost effective solution.
Oled RGB.
My old OSVR HDK 2 had RGB Oled display 2 x 1080 x 1200 The very best VR display at it's time.
Too bad about the tracking and the nearly complete lack of support :whistling:
Maybe the 130 Degree FOV are a good compromise?
Like the index's 80-144 hz displays.
New tech. Not going to upgrade without some extras like FOVE or?
Had my IPD not been pretty much smack 63.5 mm I would have had Adjustable IPD very high on my list.
 
I thought Gamer Muscle's review was heavily price weighted which is probably indicative of his audience. Some of us consider the base stations a feature to give us something no other system has, others consider them an albatross. It all depends on priorities.

I don't want any blind spots and I want accuracy. Even with my Rift I sometimes can get my hand controller where it doesn't have enough resolution for me. I'm very much looking forward to having better tracking. I would hate to take a step backwards there.

I expected those hand controllers to be $300-$500 and the whole system to be closer to $1200 for the content involved, so I'm pretty happy with the price. I also don't think the D pad button press issues will impact me at the moment, however I agree that they should be ergonomically perfect and I'm very curious how they will feel in my hands. If the D-pads are uncomfortable to me, that would be a serious issue.

His criticisms about accidentally using the touch pad or D pad show he hasn't looked at the configuration of the controllers. I'll be setting mine up to operate just like a Rift initially and won't use the touch pad, so I'll disable it.

I agree it isn't perfect, but it's still a hell of a lot better than any alternative available right now.

I still think people are dramatically underestimating how much of an impact having full range audio off your ears will be. In a movie, soundtrack is CRITICAL.

I think Gamer Muscle was upset that it wasn't at least as good as everything else out there in every single category. Good luck with that!
 
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  • Deleted member 197115

Nice review, seems like you enjoy yours, may be you can send GamerMuscle some pointers on proper settings that worked for you.
 
  • Deleted member 197115

This looks like StarVR Déjà vu Called it!

As he says the Index is much sharper than the others and based on his examples, it looks like a pretty big improvement! Loving it!

View attachment 312775
VoodooDE replied on the channel that he is on Windows 1903 which explains that awful Odyssey+ image, not like Index will not be sharper with RGB subpixels layout, it's just Odyssey is definitely not as muddy as pictured. But as he used the picture just to demonstrate SDE difference, guess it serves its purpose.
 
Interesting stuff. Some games were never designed to run at anything above 90 fps. That shouldn't be surprising, but I hadn't thought about it. They said that higher fps was noticeable in some games and not others and sometimes more noticeable as something you miss if you drop back to 90 fps.

They said it really doesn't have God Ray's, but they said it has something more like glare, but they never noticed it while playing. Importantly you don't see the Fresnel lens ridges like the CV1.

Still comments about it being a BMW or Lexus for quality with a Pimax being the opposite. Unequivocally the best headset out if you are a "premium user". Comments were made that the Index headset is a bargain for what you get, but then they complained about the base stations and controllers being overpriced.

I understand that, but look at it slightly differently. I see the base stations as a one time purchase that will stay on my walls across at least one more headset after this one possibly more depending on how long it takes inside out to catch up.

They also mentioned the audio being a stand out feature and the 360 directional sound being at a different level. They said the microphone is fantastic too.

By comparison they said the Rift S mic sucks. They did say there was a very noticeable improvement in FOV over the Rift S, slightly better clarity.

Interestingly they said they didn't like the Knuckles as well as the original Touch controllers on the CV1, but they did like it better than the Rift S controller. One guy said that it was his 2nd favorite controller, and much better than the Vive wands that he hated. They mentioned how the original Touch was immediately perfect and with the Knuckles it takes a little time to get used to them. Of course they talked about the D-pad button click issue and said Valve had responded on Reddit. Now we wait to see what happens.

Steve mentioned that the vertical FOV didn't feel like "toilet paper roll" vision like the Rift S and Samsung Odyssey because the vertical FOV is better. They mentioned feeling diminishing returns on the higher FOV that the Pimax offers. They said the vertical FOV on the Pimax was the same as the Index.

Interesting that they said going from a CV1 to an Index there would be no issue with stereo overlap, however coming from a Vive you might notice it. They said the Pimax was the worst at Stereo overlap which they said made it feel a bit off. However they said the Index felt very good, so they think this is a complex issue involving the lens positioning and adjustments, but that the Index had that pretty well sorted.

I think I need to stop watching these and just patiently wait for mine to arrive.
 
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This does show the Index controller has very flexible bindings with all features being user mappable.
Some people are remapping the D button click for the time being.
At least it is a work around until a more permanent solution is made.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ValveIndex..._the_index_controller_thumbstick_click_and_a/

I've heard Onward mentioned a number of times for the the button click issue. As I said earlier, I'm not sure if I am currently using any games that require a D-pad button click, but I think maybe Robo Recall uses it for teleporting. So I may have a few, but just haven't been using them lately.
 
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  • Deleted member 197115

Interesting reading vertical FOV praise, based on VoodooDE measurements and comments in video (21:24), it is not that different from existing HMDs, while horizontal improved by around 15 degrees.
upload_2019-7-1_7-0-55.png
 
It's apparent that there are some serious differences in measurement methods and sensitivities to various features.

FPS: Some say 120Hz is night and day better, some say it's nice but not a biggie, others say they can't see it at all.

FOV: Some are very disappointed, others say it is very noticeably improved.

It is pretty crazy how wide the disparities are, almost laughably funny.

I just want to find out for myself. 4 more weeks, unless there is a delay because of the hand controllers.
 
I believe for most you need to fiddle with it to get the best FOV for you.
When I put my Lenovo headset back to how it was when I got it i only get a FOV of 93 degrees in the ROV test.
But after swapping the fore and aft padding and a new foam for the face mask I get 102 degrees FOV and a much larger Sweet spot.
Likely the same for most headsets takes some time to get them right.
 
Gamer Muscles made a similar comment about the Vive / Vive Pro and how no one used the stock padding that came with them.

I actually have 3 completely different face pads for my Rift. I didn't notice a difference with FOV between them, but the stock pad sucks up sweat pretty badly and seems to catch hair that would tickle. Neoprene wasn't comfortable enough. I ended up with something that was comfortable but easy to wipe off.

Edit: Just ordered a couple spare Index face gaskets that will arrive with my headset and controllers July 31st "assuming" things go as planed.
 
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It's interesting that the FOV he is showing looks like a more impressive difference than the numbers alone portray. The vertical range looks a LOT larger here.
fov.jpg
 
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I'm curious if people have tried playing without the removable front panel on. I frequently play with a fan directed straight at me at least on a rig. I wonder if with the front panel off and some fan air it will cool better.

In room scale things will be VERY different. With diagonally placed base stations, what is front and what is back won't really matter. So with the 6 meter cable I should be able to move around a lot more.

It's interesting that he talks so effusively about the Index controllers including using them in Onward when others had issues there.

Another person who says it is the best system available right now.
 

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