Is VR dead?

[Deleted member 197115]

I totally forgot about that one. Thank god I managed to have acc running at 90fps most of the time and didn't need it.

Is it only broken on 1903? I'm back to a clone of the 1809 I had saved.

It was broken before, all you need is set motionvector to auto. But beware of performance penalty.

 

[RCHeliguy]

How about 72 re-projected to 144

 

[Dan Costa]

How about 72 re-projected to 144

This quote needs a NSFW tag! 144hz in vr yummy.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

How about 72 re-projected to 144

My uneducated guess that it would be a nice performance saving option but as far as image quality goes, native 90 fps would still beat it. Also keep in mind that synthetic frames generation does not come for free and can easily offset that little performance gain when running under 90, we are talking about 72 frames that needs to be calculated and rendered.

 

[RCHeliguy]

I understand that we are dealing with a balance of resolution, frame rate and super sampling and also load balancing so that neither the CPU or GPU ends up pegged.

This is a complex equation and since we are at the cutting edge enthusiast end of the spectrum there will be a lot of tweaking to see what seems to work best.

Also keep in mind that when the Pimax 5K+ was first released its performance was not that great. The drivers had a lot of optimizations and improvements that came over the months after the product was released. Likewise Oculus has had improvements over time and I'm quite sure there will be hiccups with the Index as well and a steady stream of improvements to how efficient it is.

For all I know I'll run 90fps with my 1080Ti and 120fps with a 2080Ti Super, or maybe it will end up being a 10nm or 7nm CPU next year that allows me to run 144Hz natively.

It's a brave new world and we are just enjoying the show as it unfolds.

Increasing frame rate has a lot of positive trickle down. It improves immersion because what you see will be displayed more naturally and believably as well as improving the perceived resolution. It has been suggested that we will likely eventually want to be closer to 200Hz for VR. Once again this is a balancing act to find the best combination that is the most believable. So each of these new iterations is just a milestone on a much longer path.

 

[Bjarne Hansen]

What about 240 hz and 8k pixel displays for each eye?
More is not really always better!
The 90 Hz was picked by Oculus back in the days as 60 hz was too slow and they happen to be able to get 90 hz displays.
Now they gone to 80 Hz and few complains about that?
Would be nice if we could just have different frequency settings like we got on 144 hz monitors.
I for one would like to see better lenses as I feel they are lacking behind in quality.

For all I know I'll run 90fps with my 1080Ti and 120fps with a 2080Ti Super, or maybe it will end up being a 10nm or 7nm CPU next year that allows me to run 144Hz natively.

For sim's the GPU will not be what is limiting you when you first get to GTX 1080 and above.
We need the games engines to utilize more cores.

 

[RCHeliguy]

My base stations arrive tomorrow and require a signature, so imagine most people will get their Indexes tomorrow.

Initial reports on the Index are just starting to coming in as they are arriving.
SDE barely noticeable except on black screens, field of view is noticeably better than the Rift. The directional audio is GREAT! New controllers feel great, but it's different just grabbing the handle vs. having a button to press, so there is an adjustment period from a rift controller.

I've seen nothing on driving sims yet. One guy said he got Beat Saber to crash at 144Hz. Once again I'm quite sure there will be some issues at launch that will be addressed in the coming months.

Some of the room scale games do seem to distribute themselves reasonably well, so I fully expect to be able to play some games in 120-144 fps and I will be enjoying everything this headset is capable of from the beginning. It might take updated sims and newer hardware to fully utilize this headset, or it might not. The time for speculating on this is nearing an end

 

[Deleted member 197115]

For all I know I'll run 90fps with my 1080Ti and 120fps with a 2080Ti Super, or maybe it will end up being a 10nm or 7nm CPU next year that allows me to run 144Hz natively.

Official announcement is July 2nd, looks like 2080Ti and 2070Ti Super are fake news, doesn't make much sense to introduce brand new chip mid gen lifecycle, but we'll see.
https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/nvidia-rtx-super-rumors-news-specs-price/

Note: Although there have been some reports from the likes of WCCFTech that suggest there will be a 2070 Ti and 2080 Ti Super too. Most other sources don’t corroborate that claim, so we’ll leave that off this alleged specs table for now.

Not on the list here either
https://wccftech.com/nvidia-rtx-2080-super-pictured-super-series-will-be-announced-on-2nd-july/

 

[RCHeliguy]

I've read all the rumor mill stuff. Most accounts put the 2080 Super so close to the current 2080 Ti as to make the 2080 Ti seem like a pretty bad value or worse value that it was before.

There are two ways to read this. NVidia wants to cannibalize their 2080Ti sales for some reason, or that it will be replaced as well. Some of the rumors suggest their will be a 2nd release coming in September that includes the 2080Ti Super, but that it will be one of the last cards released.

BTW, given that they have been having 2080Ti production issues, it might be that they've found a way to use 2080Ti GPU's that aren't quite up to snuff and just uniformly disable a percentage of the chip that would allow them to turn some of that dead silicone into $$$$.

 

[HugoB]

Official announcement is July 2nd, looks like 2080Ti and 2070Ti Super are fake news, doesn't make much sense to introduce brand new chip mid gen lifecycle, but we'll see.
https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/nvidia-rtx-super-rumors-news-specs-price/


Not on the list here either
https://wccftech.com/nvidia-rtx-2080-super-pictured-super-series-will-be-announced-on-2nd-july/

Yes, sad news... was looking forward to upgrade my old i7 6850 + Titan XP to a brand new i9 9900KS + 2080TiS

Guess I’ll continue driving against less than 10 AI cars and wait for 3080Ti and desktop 10nm in 2020

 

[RCHeliguy]

Wow! I didn't realize they are now back ordered until NOVEMBER !!!!

He got this right. The Oculus Quest IS what VR needs, but the Index is what PC VR needs!

At $1000 for the system they still are not keeping up with demand. I also agree with him that the Valve Index is now the gold standard for PC VR. I just wish I purchased my system in time to have the whole system being delivered tomorrow.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Increasing frame rate has a lot of positive trickle down. It improves immersion because what you see will be displayed more naturally and believably as well as improving the perceived resolution. It has been suggested that we will likely eventually want to be closer to 200Hz for VR. Once again this is a balancing act to find the best combination that is the most believable. So each of these new iterations is just a milestone on a much longer path.

In theory high refresh rate combined with matched in game FPS could eliminate need in Timewarp that is employed by all HMDs at the moment to decrease perceived latency.

But my opinion is that with current tech, higher refresh rate of HMD is probably just as useful as Ray tracing on current gen RTX cards, and by the time it catches up, this gen of HMDs will be replaced by something better already.
It's quite a bit ahead of its time, wish they stuffed it with 2K displays to make it more future proof.
Glad to hear positive reports, looking forward to your initial impression. Bet coming from CV1 you will be floored by visual improvement.

Anyone heard anything new on that Samsung HMD they are secretly cooking?
Looks like SteamVR will become platform of choice for HMD makers as MS is backing out of WMR, letting down all their partners along the way, plus it is not required for inside out tracking now as Rift S and Cosmos have their own (better) implementations already.
And Oculus is not interested in the slightest to become an open platform, big mistake.

 

[RCHeliguy]

If Oculus actually is on track to sell a million Quests in 2019 why would they want to be an open platform?

VR title sales for the Quest are 300% higher than they were for the Rift. Keep in mind that the Quest can ONLY get game content from Oculus and not Steam, so Oculus is making a LOT more money on the software by keeping this closed and making content only available through their store.

Basically they are raking it in like Apple used to with iTunes and the Apple Store.

Also keep in mind that the Oculus inside out tracking is still a step down from the Rift. This has been mentioned in reviews and by Rift owners who upgraded to Rift S's and who in some cases continue to use the original Rift for room scale games.

I seriously doubt that the Cosmos will bring parity in room scale to systems with cameras compared to base stations. They have a LONG way to go. Inside out is still a compromise for convenience at the expense of performance and will be that way for a while.

 

[HugoB]

At 1:02:21 he mentions FOV being significantly bigger than the rest

 

[Deleted member 197115]

At 1:02:21 he mentions FOV being significantly bigger than the rest

Guys, when you get yours please try to measure FOV with RealOVirtual
Starting 2:30 is how to.

 

[o Tiger Feet o]

Interesting that WMR are disappearing on Microsoft website and rumours are starting that the New Xbox will support the Rift S....

 

[o Tiger Feet o]

https://www.vrfocus.com/2019/06/latest-xbox-scarlett-rumour-is-itll-support-oculus-rift-s/

 

[RCHeliguy]

So does that mean the new Reverb and Ojo are effectively DOA ?

Will Samsung end up making a base station compatible headset next, or build their own inside out tracking?

 

[Deleted member 197115]

So does that mean the new Reverb and Ojo are effectively DOA ?

Will Samsung end up making a base station compatible headset next, or build their own inside out tracking?

Most likely Reverb was the last WMR headset for now.
ConceptD OJO will not see the light of the day as WMR headset, reason Acer was so tight lipped on release date and price.
For better or worse, depending on who you ask, inside out becomes the new standard, WMR or not. I don't think Samsung or anybody else except Valve will continue with external on new headsets, too much hassle for very little benefit.

 

[RCHeliguy]

I agree that inside out will become the new standard, but it isn't soup yet. Or at least it isn't acceptable to many serious gamers.

Think about how much you care about the individual components you use in your racing sim and how much you care about their quality, how they feel in your hands, and how accurate and reliable they are.

Now think about someone playing room scale who is very competitive and who uses ONLY the hand controllers as their single user interface to their games......

They want their hand controllers tracked very quickly and accurately.

I know a guy who has a Rift, Rift S, Pimax,and has a Valve Index Ordered. He is merciless in the games he plays and spends many many more hours playing than I do. He was happy with his Rift for a while. Technically he wore out 3 of them. He liked how the Rift S looked, but couldn't deal with the loss in fidelity of the hand controller tracking. (The inside out tracking frustrated him in games) He is very excited about getting his Valve Index to give him an edge in games over other people with lesser controllers. Keep in mind we are talking about split second instinctual reactions during game play after investing hundreds of hours into a game.

He read about the tracking for WMR and never even remotely considered buying one because of the poor hand tracking experienced by his friends. And he still considers a Rift S unacceptable for competitive game play. After playing it for a little while, he gave up on it.

All I'm saying is that just like you take your sim racing seriously and want a high quality wheel, direct drive wheel base and pedals etc.., people who play room scale seriously are more demanding of their hand controllers and their tracking. They are sensitized to care.

So think about how you would feel if someone took your direct drive wheel away and handed you a base level Thrustmaster wheel. Oh sure it works and some people are happy with it, but would you be?