Is Classic Content Overlooked in Simracing?

[muzikant]

[QUOTE = "Pawgy, bericht: 2932839, member: 2270"] Ik vraag me af waarom Grand Prix Legends na 20 jaar nog steeds sterk is? [/ QUOTE]

Give it I try
even today...there is no other sim. The feel the atmosphere of the 1967 tracks, you realize racing was big balls in those days

 

[Stig Bidstrup]

Classic Simracing is not dead yet on this site--Modern sim cars have a tendency to be driving you. If you want to drive the car yourself Follow the link :https://www.racedepartment.com/threads/lotus-ford-cortina-barner-wood-sun-17-mar-2019.165929/

The picture is 2 weeks ago at Mosport and its not boring ..

 

[JaimeDK]

I drove SCCA races in California in the 60s (Yes, I am almost too old to remember!). Those days without 'down-force' were interesting and exciting. I drove one race with a 500 hp, blown, injected Corvette. You didn't corner with the wheel, you twitched the wheel and navigated the corner with the accelerator. Very different from driving today. Even if you don't like the looks of the classic machines, learning to race them competitively on the original tracks would be a real learning experience if your only experience is with high down-force, modern racing machines.

That's very cool, but I bet you any good european race car with a third of that corvette's horses would beat you because everybody knows american road cars were bad at cornering, so the homologues racing cars for sure were better but still not good enough as a well done chassis/suspension the euro cars.
But hey!, I want those beasts in my sim to get a lot of fun and btw on a sim you're not polluting that much!

 

[Tero Dahlberg]

I know, most of the people does. For me they are ugly and slow.

Well many modern cars are ugly and slow

But it's fine to like what you like

 

[Case_]

I've honestly never understood the popularity of GT3 cars in particular in simracing. They look nice, sure, they even (sometimes) sound nice...but they feel so lifeless to me*, as if most of the fun was sucked out of them. I drive them, obviously, because they guarantee to get nice grids so they are featured frequently, but it's pretty rare for me to truly enjoy driving them (even if the racing can certainly get quite exciting in the races).

Just an example, looking at the races I have lined up for the rest of this week...there's Group C at Riverside, GT3 at Portimao, GTE again at Portimao and Group 5 at Silverstone. If I were to sort these races in order of how much I'm looking forward to them, it would be Group C (despite my reservations about FFB for that particular mod), followed by Group 5, followed by GTE. GT3s would be dead last for me without a slight hesitation, as even the GTEs, although fairly similar, are more fun to drive IMO.

(*If you say it's because I can't drive them properly, I won't argue with you, it's probably true.)

NICE...
Coming to which title???

Raceroom. And very soon, too. I would guess next week or so.

 

[Patrik Marek]

I wonder why Grand Prix Legends is still going strong after 20 Years?

yes, with all time peak ( on steam only) up to 34 people ( which actually doesn't sound accurate at all)

 

[JaimeDK]

[Raceroom. And very soon, too. I would guess next week or so.[/QUOTE]
How is raceroom since last year?, did they improved physics?, I'll love to give a second chance because I just drove mostly the AMG GT3 and back then I was complaining about the game but might be just the cars that they are boring to hell. I never tried the classic content. It's good?

 

[Case_]

How is raceroom since last year?, did they improved physics?, I'll love to give a second chance because I just drove mostly the AMG GT3 and back then I was complaining about the game but might be just the cars that they are boring to hell. I never tried the classic content. It's good?

They are gradually updating the physics to older cars, so I guess it depends on what "last year" means. But I'm probably not the right person to ask about physics, since I don't really see anything particularly wrong with even the old physics. And I would certainly say it's good, Raceroom is still my favorite sim.

 

[Proved Remedy]

Yes, yes are super ugly and super slow, just like this, no?:

Try to convince me that those two are ugly!

Mr Shelby must have been blind to create such a "ugly" car.

 

[mantasisg]

^^^
*Peter Brock

and thats ripped model I guess

 

[2112]

View attachment 296420
This is 40+ years old so it must be a classic ugly and slow.
And as the sims get better the mix between new and classic is even more enjoyable

Also one of the most powerful race cars ever. That car raced the year after Porsche pulled the 917 from Can Am competition. That car was also more powerful than the 917. I always hear the 917 killed Cam Am. They did not, this car did.

I do not speak for those in here who do not like the classics, I can only speak about the people I race with. There are some of us, including me, who like classics and there are those that do not.

I do not like racing anything older than the 70's or 80's because that is the era in which I started following racing. I do not like the soft suspensions of many of the older cars.

Those that I race with that do not like the cars I like always say: They are too hard to drive; they do not stick to the road, I do not like having to shift, etc...I give some of the same reasons for not liking to drive cars older than my preferred era, yet I have done so and had a lot of fun doing it.

Many that I race with expect older cars to stick to the tarmac like the cars of today. They do not understand that a power slide and opposite lock were seemingly de-riguer to drive those cars. What made driving the older era cars more enjoyable was to let the rear slide out and go wild. Then you get to having fun.

The newer cars are easier to drive. Sure, the set-ups are more complex but driving those cars is much easier with TC, SC, ABS, Anti-lag, etc...Many I drive with do not like having to deal with turbo lag and its effects if you do not prepare for it. To me, that is what makes those cars so fun. The GT3's and GT 4's seem to take the character out of racing and make it as easy as possible to drive. You do not have to use a clutch, nor do you have to worry about a missed shift. You just point and go.

Not to say I do not like the new cars. I do, they are just a different experience.

 

[Ghoults]

It fills me with incredible sadness how someone could say the shadow dn4 is ugly. How dare you?? Unforgivable. Shameful.

Yes but like i said, sim racing as a whole is already a niche market. In order to get the investment needed you have to be convinced of its success, hence why the most ‘trendy’ content is largely focused on.

Would more old stuff be cool to see? Absolutely. Could a dev take a risk and be successful? Sure. But its just that, a risk. A bigger one than if they stick to something with guaranteed success.

A new project is always a risk. That being said GTL was focused on older content and I think it sold enough to earn its development back. When it comes to historic content I think the title could be a lot more succesful today than it was in 2006. We have big events like goodwood which draws big crowds and offers amazing racing. We have bigger audience to sell. Although development costs are up as well. I'd still say there is very much a market for a sim that focuses on older cars. Licensing is probably difficult but gtl did that too. I think historic race cars are trendy enough now to do something with it. Even with assetto corsa it really took off when the ferrari f40 was added. I don't think ac would have had as wide appeal if it had just focused on modern trendy cars.

Why not start a crowdfunded project? see how many people are really willing to put money down for vintage content.

At one point in time in simracing there was even an open source racing sim being developed. I don't think it got anywhere. Crowdsourcing is just a way to get the budget. What you'd need is the key people that are incredibly difficult to get. The physics programmer (not the one who puts in physics values to build cars) is the one person that just don't exist. Without that you are left with using an existing engine and its existing feature list and not add much to it except the content. That basically gives you three options. Rf1, rf2 and assetto and going through the reiza route.

Unless you get an existing sim developer to do crowdfunding for historic content

 

[garyjpaterson]

Without that you are left with using an existing engine and not add much to it. That basically gives you three options. Rf1, rf2 and assetto and going through the reiza route.

And whats wrong with doing something like that? People here seem to crave vintage content, then lets make some. We already have plenty great sim platforms to choose from. I dont think a brand new engine would need to be developed at all.

Sounds like a cool idea, Goodwood Revival: The Sim Count me in.

 

[Ghoults]

And whats wrong with doing something like that? People here seem to crave vintage content, then lets make some. We already have plenty great sim platforms to choose from. I dont think a brand new engine would need to be developed at all.

Sounds like a cool idea, Goodwood Revival: The Sim Count me in.

When it comes to sim racing I think the people who have been racing some years already have pretty good idea what they like and what they don't. So when you pick an existing engine without much of a scope for improvement in the core areas of the sim you are basically already dividing your userbase to those who are happy to get more of the x sim or who who feel they already bought and played it once. Assetto was so popular because it had the new physics engine. It was not yet another rf1 game, it was not codemasters, iracing or rfactor. It was a real evolution of nk pro which while being controversial as a product was also very much liked physics wise. So you had the full sim racing community eager to see what it was because it had the fresh air of being new. Even with its somewhat barebones functionality people were willing to understand it because it was new (while demanding those things to be added asap). When you get an existing product to build on top chances are people expect more than the base game, not less. And in my mind rightly so.

The thing is I am not saying you'd need a new engine. You'd need to take an existing engine and make an honest sizeable step forward with it. Reiza even with their fantastic automobilista must have suffered from its rf1 history because of this. Even if they managed to massage 110% out of that old engine for most people it was still a paid rf1 mod (which I find distasteful thing to say) because it is a lot better than that. But it was still built on top of rf1 which sure as hell did not help.

 

[chrisracer]

It's simple. Young drivers (sim drivers) aren't familiar with the classics. I grew up during the Ferrari/Ford LeMans battles. These to me are the ultimate cars. Can Am. I saw them at Watkins Glen. The 70's are the greatest Formula 1 years. I was at every F1 race at Watkins Glen from 69 till 80. Even the GTP years of IMSA. But you would have to be at least 40 years old to have seen and remembered them. Younger simmers have grown up with LMP/GT3/GT4 so naturally that is their cup of tea. I've been racing for fourty three years (learned to race in a Lotus 51 at Jim Russell racing school at St Jovite in 1975). Today I race a Vandeimen 95. The older the better.

 

[garyjpaterson]

Just seems odd to feel the need to make a 'sizeable step forwards' on the game engine considering the topic is simply about the lack of vintage content.

If content is what is wanted then it can happen, quite easily. But i think it needs more than a few people saying "yeah i like old cars" (which is mostly what I'm seeing here) for anyone to be convinced its worth their while.

 

[thevoidone]

For sure that you think modern race cars are harder to drive than old race cars? No way. I never thought some racer could think like that before to read this arcticle. Interesting. I think there will be a whole generation of racers that never drove a car without hydraulic steering, automatic shifting, traction control, highly technological tyres, aerodynamics projected with tons of technology and money. Obviously the driver talent did much more difference in the past than now, that is the reason driver was a much more important piece than this days. I really thought it was a consensus.

 

[Mark Ratzenbacher]

Its crazy how many people respond to this topic, its easily one of the fastest growing threads on RD :o

If someone is interested in classic cars racing, then lets see if we can get together again :
-> https://www.racedepartment.com/threads/interested-in-gt-legends-race-events-at-rd.166070/

rFactor Historix is also still around: -> https://www.racedepartment.com/forums/rfactor-racing-club.31/

 

[T04STY]

more sound

Tell that to the 911 RSR

 

[Ghoults]

Just seems odd to feel the need to make a 'sizeable step forwards' on the game engine considering the topic is simply about the lack of vintage content.

If content is what is wanted then it can happen, quite easily. But i think it needs more than a few people saying "yeah i like old cars" (which is mostly what I'm seeing here) for anyone to be convinced its worth their while.

I don't think it is odd at all. Every sim you buy you want it to be something better and fresh. If it is just new graphics with rf1, rf2 or assetto base then why not play one of those existing games which already have much bigger car and track rosters? It also comes to the price. How much is base game rf1/rf2/assetto with just historical cars really worth it? 60€, 40€ or 20€? Dirt rally 2.0 can ask for 80€ because at least technically they have made a step forward from dirt rally. Even if it is high it is justifiable.

I think it is a bit of sad attitude to think that just because someone likes older race cars would mean they don't really care about physical fidelity or having new experiences and be happy to just get the cars and maybe some tracks. When it comes to assetto for example its solid rear axle has lots of essential stuff missing (like camber and toe) you'd absolutely need fixed before it can work as a historic sim. Or maybe I'm wrong. Maybe people would be happy with something just thrown together.