Is Classic Content Overlooked in Simracing?

[NikiGouda]

It's simple. Young drivers (sim drivers) aren't familiar with the classics. I grew up during the Ferrari/Ford LeMans battles. These to me are the ultimate cars. Can Am. I saw them at Watkins Glen. The 70's are the greatest Formula 1 years. I was at every F1 race at Watkins Glen from 69 till 80. Even the GTP years of IMSA. But you would have to be at least 40 years old to have seen and remembered them. Younger simmers have grown up with LMP/GT3/GT4 so naturally that is their cup of tea. I've been racing for fourty three years (learned to race in a Lotus 51 at Jim Russell racing school at St Jovite in 1975). Today I race a Vandeimen 95. The older the better.

Can only agree. There is indeed no mystery about the popularity for modern
GT3/GT4 cars in racing games/sims nowadays. It is really as simple as that.
In addition to this, the fact that by far the most (younger) people starting their
virtual racing "career" with console racing games like GT or Forza might be
another reason. Especially in Grand Turismo where GT cars and Prototypes
are core content and were highly advertised since the introduction 1998.

 

[Metla]

I'm not driven to seek out classic era Motorsports, However I've got a lot of enjoyment from the classic content in AC. Old cars on period era tracks are a great experience.

And for me, Yes definitely harder to drive.

 

[CreamyCornCob]

It looks like a ironing table

Look, we get you like rice burners, biggie camber, drifting and sh*t but, you seemed to ignore what you quoted.

Lets see you run that car at full boost and keep up even with the AI at an easy %85.
Ehh you probably already tried and just gave up because its far to fast without massive aero downforce, ABS and TC.

Yup this car is just "slow" (as you said) lol. I doubt you could work your game pad to even counter steer corner exit.

 

[Metla]

I wonder why Grand Prix Legends is still going strong after 20 Years?

Yet the statement at the time was that it experienced "abysmally poor sales".

A niche within a niche within a niche, and perhaps the prime example of the earlier statement that classic doesn't sell games.

Those 4230 people who bought it in 2000 probably have nowhere else to go....

 

[oneWonders]

That's pretty much all you need to read in the entire article.

The myth that gpl sold poorly is a load of rubbish.
It originally may have done, due to extreme hardware requirements and very few people having steering wheel controllers at the time.

However it continued to sell here in the UK through sold out software for over 15 or so years since release, all the way up until sold out software wound down operations with the demise of physical media in the pc market (thanks for ruining things and making games far more expensive, steam fanboys).

Here it is for sale in 2013:
https://web.archive.org/web/20130825174422/http://www.sold-out.co.uk/productList.asp?drdAlpha=7

If it had been so unsuccessful they would never have sold it for so long - they were constantly updating the titles they had available and would remove any unpopular ones.

So i'm sorry but i'm fed up of this argument. No one has even tried to do a title with historical content after gpl.

Token gestures of 1 or 2 tracks and a few cars don't count.
All we want is a full season's worth of tracks and a grid of accurately represented cars (not just reskins). You can choose the series, by this point anything would be good.
Of course a single track or a smattering of unrelated historic cars won't sell well. If you can't be bothered to do it properly then it destroys the whole point and experience.

Tracks especially were far better pre 1970s or even pre 1980s.
People hype up nordschleife, well in those days nordschleife was far better and you had a huge selection of circuits just as enthralling. This is the real meat of historical racing - the period circuits.

The fact that people here were so surprised when imola 72 was released for automobilista and it turned out to be "the best version of imola" speaks volumes.
It was not surprise to me and maybe if people took their head from their gt3 / modern f1 shaped behinds they might actually give historical content a chance and see how much better circuits were back then.


A lot of people are crying out for an historic sim and would be extremely grateful for one.

 

[F_B]

It's not that there wouldn’t be any customers for historic content. But the risk is too high, so sticking to a sim with modern GT and prototype cars is the financially less risky option. I think that is what he meant.

 

[Sergio Loro]

Turismo Carretera?

yes!! 1966 season, i would love to drive this kind of cars

 

[StefanoCasillo]

So i'm sorry but i'm fed up of this argument. No one has even tried to do a title with historical content after gpl.

yep.. that surely must be it.
Game studios all around the world are full of clueless devs who don't see the amazing opportunity, ignore these amazing sales reports, and you, nickname on a forum, are the one who gets it.

 

[roadyroad]

Licensing is probably difficult but gtl did that too.

GTL was about a modern FIA championship using classic cars (with modern upgrades). The licence wasn't an issue. Focusing on real classic content is a lot harder. Unless one organism has the rights for older championships, which is probably not the case

 

[busterwolfeman]

True article. I had to shutdown a series with RSS' brilliant F79 mod. The car is a masterpiece, but there's too less interests for it among Assetto Corsa drivers.

 

[David Wright]

Yet the statement at the time was that it experienced "abysmally poor sales".

A niche within a niche within a niche, and perhaps the prime example of the earlier statement that classic doesn't sell games.

Those 4230 people who bought it in 2000 probably have nowhere else to go....

GPL sold 200,000 copies. This was more than Indycar 2 (180,000) but far less than the NASCAR titles Papyrus also produced.

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/history-of-papyrus-racing-games/1100-6103365/

200,000 is not too shabby in today's terms. Not in the same league as Assetto Corsa with 826,000 steam sales up to June 2018 or Project Cars 974,000 steam sales up to June 2018, but somewhat better than rFactor2 - 75,000 steam sales, and Automobilista - 49,000 steam sales.

 

[BorekSt]

I am buying simgames just because of the "classics" content. even because of one such single car there, no kidding

as a car (and airplane) free add-on stuff developer my experience is people still are very hungry for Formula One, CanAm or SCGT 60s - 70s seasons. some people would sell own mum to be able to buy and drive, lets say, the 1967 Sportscars full grid content focused game.

Patrik Marek said if that would be made as a hobby project for free, it would take years. well, that depends on the approach. I personally did 10 different car types of F1 1967 Season, fully from scratch. the first public release has been achieved in 6 months and was a huge success. however the price is the cars are not exact clones of the real starting grid, if you look closer, just same logic like EVE, SPARK, HOWSTON and so.

anyway, it seems we really still have to build it all ourself or to wait for various DLCs. the modding is not dead yet I would say.

 

[Nico]

I bought AC solely because I could drive a 917K on the classic banked Monza oval. It's still the only game that allows such a thing (even though I think PCARS2 now has a 917).

Sadly, videogames are mostly driven towards young people, and sadly most young people believe the world was born along with them, and if they don't, they think things that happened 20 years ago are prehistory. Motorsport isn't just about going fast, or high tech.

 

[DracerAGW]

I regret that there is not more historical content as that is where my main interest is. I understand the desire for GT3 GT4 type cars as many people want to drive the race cars they are watching today but there are also many people who long to drive the cars they were fascinated by when they were younger. For me, the 1970 Trans Am cars are what I long for the most.

In many businesses someone looks for a niche to fill in order to gain sales others are missing. I have often wondered why sim racing studios do not follow that. I imagine if one of them developed more classic cars they could "corner the market" on that niche.

I would not expect the classic cars to be perfect in handling and an exact replica of the originals. I would be happy with cars that looked like those dream cars of my younger years and drove somewhat like they did back in the day.

One of my favorite things about RaceRoom is that they have done some of this with the GTO Classics (my favorite), 92 DTM, Group 5, and Touring Classics. If only I could get my triple monitor set up to work in RaceRoom I would play that far more than I do.

Hopefully more of the content creators will bring some more of the classic cars back to life for us through racing sims.

 

[Mauro01]

This is the essence of motorsport:

 

[Bruno Iwanczuk]

Look, we get you like rice burners, biggie camber, drifting and sh*t but, you seemed to ignore what you quoted.

Lets see you run that car at full boost and keep up even with the AI at an easy %85.
Ehh you probably already tried and just gave up because its far to fast without massive aero downforce, ABS and TC.

Yup this car is just "slow" (as you said) lol. I doubt you could work your game pad to even counter steer corner exit.

I don't have to prove nothing. Technology has advanced and they are obviously able to make much faster cars today. If an actual car is slower than a classic car it's because of rules limitations for safety. Could you imagine how fast would be a F1 car if they had no limitations to make it faster?

That piece of crap you showed me would be like a New Beetle compared to such a F1 car.

 

[Ghoults]

Can only agree. There is indeed no mystery about the popularity for modern
GT3/GT4 cars in racing games/sims nowadays. It is really as simple as that.
In addition to this, the fact that by far the most (younger) people starting their
virtual racing "career" with console racing games like GT or Forza might be
another reason. Especially in Grand Turismo where GT cars and Prototypes
are core content and were highly advertised since the introduction 1998.

I don't think it is that simple. Forzas and granturismos do great job of promoting the older race cars as well. Every one of these games have quite a lot of historic race cars. I think the situation now is actually better than it was say 10 years ago when the newness of the cars for lots of racing games was their only selling point. If you go ask a 12 year old what is porsche 917 or lotus 49 they are more likely to know than 10 years or 20 years ago.

And I don't think gt cars and prototypes were at all what made gran turismo big. It was the tuning aspects and normal cars. Gran turismo did not even have proper selection of gt cars before gt6. It had supergt and some random lemans cars most of which did not even have cockpits in gt5. Even the newest edition has quite a a few historic normal and race cars there.

 

[Deleted member 503495]

Grand Prix Legends was a rushed title and it still sold a great amount especially by today's standards. No idea of the numbers from Sold Out Software (the question extends to Richard Burns Rally as well). Nascar Racing 2003 Season did not do too poorly given the non-worldwide appeal and imminent loss of the license, hampering the continued marketing.

Two games alone can't save a poorly managed company and Vivendi folded, much like MicroProse shut down despite the best-selling Grand Prix games and the Falcon series. Some snarky and bordering on rude responses especially from some registered members are an embarrassment.

 

[Tim Chitwood]

I love the classic cars. They just resonate with me. Not saying I am fast, but I do have fun and that is why I drive.

 

[Dragos Haba]

I don't have to prove nothing. Technology has advanced and they are obviously able to make much faster cars today. If an actual car is slower than a classic car it's because of rules limitations for safety. Could you imagine how fast would be a F1 car if they had no limitations to make it faster?

That piece of crap you showed me would be like a New Beetle compared to such a F1 car.

You make some valid points which make perfect sense at first. But, you lend nothing to this conversation because your intent is clear. You don't want to have a civil debate, you want to troll and screech. Your last sentence proves that. Please do everyone a favour and stop posting, you are only derailing this thread.

PS: I don't care if you reply, I won't be reading this thread anymore.