Is Classic Content Overlooked in Simracing?

[StefanoCasillo]

not that I'm making any offer, and it's probably not the best place to discuss this anyway, but would you guys be opened to licensing your engine to other parties if they wanted to build a game on it ?
Or did selling AC (if I remember it correctly) prohibit such thing ?

if it makes sense from a commercial point of view why not.
We had a couple of proposals on that line but none made real sense economically for us.

 

[apex11]

Eh sim racing is already a niche, any niche within it is always going to struggle for content.

Best bet - make it yourself.

Or make a transit van.....

 

[LeSunTzu]

To be honest online racing with 1950's or 1960's cars is most often than not a poor experience outside specialized leagues. First there are not that many players ready to switch from cars that need to be driven agressively (like modern GT3s) to twitchy cars that require lots of smoothness and control. Then there are those who try but can't hold the car in the right direction during a whole race; they finish sweating and disappointed. And finally the others have more chances to get collected by other cars and get their own race ruined.
Simracing oldies is an elitist stuff.

 

[Davebrave]

I love classic cars. I like when you have to tame a beast and push the car to the limits. My favourites are: the Porsche 917K from rF2, all old DTM from AC and the BTCC Nissan Primera mod.
However, I understand that current simulators have to be mainly focused on present cars... it just makes sense: you (well... someone) can drive the actual cars and fine tune things on the sim when needed. That's nearly impossible (or rather hard) with very old and rare cars.

 

[Reik Major]

So, if so many racers like classic content, could someone please fire up a public 24/7-server for Assetto Corsa using the Lotus 49 at Feldbergring?

I had a blast at this combo offline but I'm not able to run a server...

 

[mister dog]

It didn't strike me as being overlooked to be honest, yes ACC is a Blancpain GT3 focused game but aside from that practically all the other sims (AC included), feature a nice and diverse selection of classic content. And then you have the modding community adding tons on top of that.

Spoiled for choice really

 

[aphidgod]

if it makes sense from a commercial point of view why not.
We had a couple of proposals on that line but none made real sense economically for us.

I'll toss my hat in the ring to do physics for historic cars should there ever be such a project. Kinda my niche around here as it is.

Meantime, you all have my Lola T70 to work with now. We'll have a Jaguar D-type available for download in the rather near future. And the XJ13 is still available for download at another forum.

 

[guidofoc]

Its not that long ago, that people made game-breaking mods for FREE, fueled only by their enthusiasm.
Nowadays its DLC´s and mods behind paywalls.
...

Not true for Assetto Corsa. Most of AC mods are free or super cheap. And quite a few are incredibly good. And it's happening today, here on this website.

So, if so many racers like classic content, could someone please fire up a public 24/7-server for Assetto Corsa using the Lotus 49 at Feldbergring?

I had a blast at this combo offline but I'm not able to run a server...

Hmm those servers are mostly empty. Vintage cars are a niche because not all people can relate to them and because not all people have an h-shifter/clutch and are willing to learn how to heel-toe or to drive a car sideways. So, there is actually a lot of vintage content available, but not much ends up actually getting used for racing.

Example: a few weeks ago I did a race on RSR with the AC Lotus 25 at Silverstone 67 and it was a blast.. for me and a few others only. I had done no practice at all, I jumped into qualifying and straight away I was able to fight for the podium.. not sure why but my feeling is that most of the people on the server didn't drive the car properly. And people get frustrated and give up.

Even GPL sold poorly, only in hindsight it became a cult game.. and myself I can remember how frustrating it was to handle those cars.

 

[Andy-R]

I don't really agree with the idea that classic or modern race cars are harder to drive. Surely it just comes down to what you have experience with? I like classic race cars and would find a modern GT3 etc much more difficult cos it is so different to what I'm used to. Very different inputs required. One is small super fast twitch movements where the other requires a lot more input from the driver but is usually quite forgiving and doesn't need such super fast inputs to catch a slide. I don't mind modern low end race cars but it takes me a little while to adjust to the grippy but unforgiving nature of the tyres compared to what I'm used to. I think the people that are saying they like classic cars but find them hard to drive probably spend more time driving modern stuff.

 

[Tormentor]

Because not everyone is willing to spend hundreds of £'s on something they may only get an hour to do each day (if they are lucky).

How many outthere have a motorcycle for 10000+ € and drive it 3 or 4 times a year? How many have a bike for 1000+€ and drive it one or two times a month? How many smoke cigarettes for 5, 6 or 7 € a day for nothing or spend their money in alcohol or partys?
Simracing is a hobby, and as a hobby i do it for my personal amusement, for my soul, for my nerves. You can't calculate that.

 

[Oldzeb]

only three simulations offer classic rF2, R3E and AMS(rip) content, Congratulations to them!
but that's not enough!
it lacks a lot of classic GT classic for rF2 (and a clutch worthy of a sim) too much F1 classic but i like too!!
R3E will release the GroupeC and a nice Porsche 964 I am really hype!

 

[aphidgod]

Did you somehow miss the dozens of historic cars available in AC?

 

[Graham Botha]

Coming...

NICE...
Coming to which title???

 

[guidofoc]

I don't really agree with the idea that classic or modern race cars are harder to drive. Surely it just comes down to what you have experience with? I like classic race cars and would find a modern GT3 etc much more difficult cos it is so different to what I'm used to. Very different inputs required. One is small super fast twitch movements where the other requires a lot more input from the driver but is usually quite forgiving and doesn't need such super fast inputs to catch a slide. I don't mind modern low end race cars but it takes me a little while to adjust to the grippy but unforgiving nature of the tyres compared to what I'm used to. I think the people that are saying they like classic cars but find them hard to drive probably spend more time driving modern stuff.

Hmm, ok driving anything at the limit is hard. But driving around a GT3 car is quite simple for anyone, while driving around a Lotus 49 is already a challenge.
Let's say that there are 2 elements of racing: 1) driving 2) actually racing other people. For the driving part, there are two components as well a) understanding the car b) understanding the track. Now, if understanding the car requires you to worry about breaking the gearbox, overrevving the engine, locking the rear tires when downshifting, steering the car with the gas pedal, etc, it means the learning curve is steeper than just learning how to change gears with a paddle shifter. If you don't learn those things on a Lotus 49 not only you will be slow, you will crash or retire from the race very soon. And scream. On a GT3 car you can focus almost immediately on the second part of driving that is learning the track, and gradually get to the limit. No screaming (well.. screaming if someone dive-bombs you at T1 at Monza ).

.. well of course driving a modern F1 car or a Le Mans prototype Is also not easy, not at all! With all those buttons and all those options... brr! Vintage cars tend to kill you and F1 and LMP are complicated, so long live GT3!

 

[guidofoc]

only three simulations offer classic rF2, R3E and AMS(rip) content, Congratulations to them!
but that's not enough!
it lacks a lot of classic GT classic for rF2 (and a clutch worthy of a sim) too much F1 classic but i like too!!
R3E will release the GroupeC and a nice Porsche 964 I am really hype!

Wat? AC has tons of classic stuff.

 

[F_B]

I’d instantly buy any official game or mod which offers for example a full field of 1980s IMSA GTP/GTO cars with all the tracks from that era. That’s a no-brainer. Or a group C season. Wouldn’t hesitate one second.

Yes, we have many popular race cars from certain historic eras but it’s "just" scattered around, there is not a whole, complete experience (with Raceroom coming close, see their GTO & classic DTM packages for example). Nowadays 90% of the guys want to race GT3/GTE, which is ok but compared to historic racecars they’re lifeless imo. However I know that I’m a minority with my opinion about modern racecars. Just take a look at all the sims out there and see what cars people drive online: GT cars at Monza, Spa and Nords. No diversity. That’s what many want. No struggling with the car, easy access. Different times, I guess.

Now I’m going back to my old people’s home and have a tea.

 

[Fat-Alfie]

Meh, I'm not a big fan of historic content... there's just no future in it

I can foresee myself working on classic content for at least the next 3-4 years, to be honest. I love the fact that AC (and the other sims) allow us to race in the most dangerous cars, around the most lethal circuits with no risk at all. I think it is great that modern motor racing is so much safer than it was in the past, but reducing the risk has also reduced the thrill from the cars and tracks. We can now recapture that thrill and no-one has to die

Long live classic sim-racing

 

[Brent Mills]

One of my most enjoyable ever online races was RF2 Howston G6 at Brianza. 300+ kph in 4th gear in a non aero car on this terrifyingly fast, narrow track. The guys who did this for real back in the day must have had special slings to carry their massive balls around!

 

[mantasisg]

Great subject, and so big. I could write whole day even in response only to main article that opened this thread.

First of all, I dislike modern cars. Whoever says that classic cars are more difficult is not right. Classic cars may require more technique and simply more work to do as a driver, but modern cars requires crazy precision and reaction to be truly fast. Modern cars are usually capable to be "like on rails" (and fastest when driven so) but it is not actually easy to achieve at the limit. Whoever thinks it is easy is craving for simcade. I also suppose lack of enthusiasm has a lot to do with how "easy" the car appears to be, if I am unexcited by GT3 I loose focus, and focus is crucial with such car you just can't let it go. It is probably same with classic cars for others, but classic cars are less demanding on "staying on rails" allows slightly more slip and some milliseconds more to react.

Old cars being difficult is very much a stereotype. Take even 1937 GP car like Mercedes W125. You'd eventually think that it was hell to drive. But it was not. Jochen Mass said that even tires were good, they just were not durable, and you can see in videos that they aren't always diagonal to their direction of travel lol, not at all. Of course not talking about fishtailing at 300km/h. Maserati 250F is difficult till you get in the rhythm with it, even before update in AC it wasn't so incredibly difficult, but I suppose it would be for a person with no basic skill at such driving, no anticipation of whats to come when driving it, and zero enthusiasm with just one thought in his mind "I want to be back on rails in my lovely popular and relevant GT3".

Also classic tracks are great for most cars, as well as modern tracks. With some exceptions, when certain combinations just are not good. IMO modern Monza with its T1 is bad combination with any car. Some combinations might just not always fit the "theme" though it doesn't mean it couldn't be raced in simulation.

A lot of simracers are interested in immersion of current motorsports, and that is main thing, it is just about what is happening now... being in tune with the time and living to this day. I bet if there were a popular modern cars series where they would race street narrow tires, with a cars that rolls a lot, without fancy aero, without electronic helps and overpowered... you get the idea...then it would be popular in simracing too. And perhaps even whole simracing would be more popular, if todays technology wouldn't be so obsessed with laptimes, and would be more about fun and perceiving speed through slides, less on rails action... but technology is moving forward, and giving more effect in hands of a driver would be step back I guess...

I think mastering and understanding simple vehicles helps to understand how car works better. Just take cars that are purely mechanical and you'll have most natural driving experience.

Also having classic cars in true simulation is beautiful way to keep their imprint in history, to remind about them, and some kind of documentation of how they were like to drive. Historic cars in simulation is a document.

Never forget AC Ferrari pool when modern F1 won after 512M, despite modern F1 from previous year already being in a game, and community effort in supporting 512M. That just shows how ridiculous it is about being in tune with this day, with whats popular.

Thats also the reason why advertising works, people has no capability of making choices, they need to be told. Thats mere exposure effect and thats all. So I am happy we talk about classics.

 

[Mr Deap]

GT3/GTE class being the most popular is misleading. Look at the most downloaded car in RD database in AC.

If you start to spy every player in the world... Sorry, but data don't lie. GT3 is super niche. No one care about it in NA.