I want to like RF2.....

[Denis Betty]

OK I'll be the first to say it....

Wouldn't it be great if Stephano and Marcel were to work together on a project?
Well I think it'd be great.

 

[Peppelino]

Porsche have an upcoming thing. .

 

[Bela Valko]

Not gonna tell where, but you can buy rF2 for $2. AMS2 for $5. At least the cd-key for a steam purchase.
I've been in sim racing since 2013 and you would not consider me an rF2 "fan". rF2 was the first sim I bought (for $80) just because I read an article about the best sims and rF2 was in the top3 (with iR and Simraceway which doesn't exist anymore) and I didn't know anything about sims back then.
So rF2:
graphics: I think it can look superb in cockpit mode with later added/updated content, either official or modded tracks. I think even the rainy weather looks as good as in AMS2 even though I never race in rainy weather. But it usually doesn't look as good in outside camera modes and can look horrible with older or unfinished contents and with lower graphics settings. The lighting in rF2 is bad that's why you see (or used to see) a lot of rF2 screenshots in the sunset. Even the intro of the game is in the sunset

FFB: Mr. Ogonoski said it's not above other sims, I think it is. You just have to adjust the car specific FFB multiplier. I just ran a race against AI in AMS2 and in rF2 on Bathurst with the GT3s and the FFB in rF2 is much more enjoyable. The FFB on iR is a joke, AC/ACC is close but not as good as rF2.

physics: no idea, I've never driven any of the cars IRL I drive in sims but not as sketchy as iR for sure

sounds: usually horrible. This is the sole reason I race less and less in any sim. If you compare the sound of a car in rF2 in cockpit view vs a real car, rF2 sounds are usually pathetic, they all miss the feel of power of the engine or however you wanna call it (the vroomvroom, the scream), they sound horrible, horrible, horrible with rare exceptions. Total immersion killer for me, usually I feel like I'm driving some stupid vacuum cleaner or listening to some racing game from 1985. Exception is the F1 cars, they usually sound good, too bad I don't like F1 cars.

AI: it's a hit or miss, depends on the track. If it's official content it's usually good. If it was made by a modder it's less likely to be good but if you are good at modding AI paths you can always help the modders out.

online racing: dead... since inception.

price: now if you are really about GT3 or GTE cars it's best to buy DLCs, but you don't have to. There is the Enduracers mod for free. Porsche Cup car the same. I for one am pretty bored with GT3/GTE cars, they are boring to drive and every other sim have them so I rather look for other types of cars.
If you like Formula cars there are a tons of mods and official cars you can choose from.
If you like touring cars then it's harder, there are some mods but I'm not sure about their quality.
Oval racing: official cars, tons of modded tracks, some with questionable AI, couple days ago I ran few good races at Richmond vs AI.
About tracks: the workshop has a ton of tracks, if you pick carefully (ie. finished or updated after 2020 and v1.0 or above) they can be very good. You don't have to race Le Mans or have to race the Nordschleife. I must admit I'm not a fan of Sebring (the track itself, I don't like flat tracks) but the Sebring made by S397 is superb mainly because of the bumps. The workshop is full of F1 tracks (I hate almost all of them because they are usually flat ) so the game doesn't lack in that department and there are a few US tracks too.

So all in all it worth $2.

 

[davehenrie]

Not gonna tell where, but you can buy rF2 for $2. AMS2 for $5. At least the cd-key for a steam purchase.
I've been in sim racing since 2013 and you would not consider me an rF2 "fan". rF2 was the first sim I bought (for $80) just because I read an article about the best sims and rF2 was in the top3 (with iR and Simraceway which doesn't exist anymore) and I didn't know anything about sims back then.
So rF2:
graphics: I think it can look superb in cockpit mode with later added/updated content, either official or modded tracks. I think even the rainy weather looks as good as in AMS2 even though I never race in rainy weather. But it usually doesn't look as good in outside camera modes and can look horrible with older or unfinished contents and with lower graphics settings. The lighting in rF2 is bad that's why you see (or used to see) a lot of rF2 screenshots in the sunset. Even the intro of the game is in the sunset

FFB: Mr. Ogonoski said it's not above other sims, I think it is. You just have to adjust the car specific FFB multiplier. I just ran a race against AI in AMS2 and in rF2 on Bathurst with the GT3s and the FFB in rF2 is much more enjoyable. The FFB on iR is a joke, AC/ACC is close but not as good as rF2.

physics: no idea, I've never driven any of the cars IRL I drive in sims but not as sketchy as iR for sure

sounds: usually horrible. This is the sole reason I race less and less in any sim. If you compare the sound of a car in rF2 in cockpit view vs a real car, rF2 sounds are usually pathetic, they all miss the feel of power of the engine or however you wanna call it (the vroomvroom, the scream), they sound horrible, horrible, horrible with rare exceptions. Total immersion killer for me, usually I feel like I'm driving some stupid vacuum cleaner or listening to some racing game from 1985. Exception is the F1 cars, they usually sound good, too bad I don't like F1 cars.

AI: it's a hit or miss, depends on the track. If it's official content it's usually good. If it was made by a modder it's less likely to be good but if you are good at modding AI paths you can always help the modders out.

online racing: dead... since inception.

price: now if you are really about GT3 or GTE cars it's best to buy DLCs, but you don't have to. There is the Enduracers mod for free. Porsche Cup car the same. I for one am pretty bored with GT3/GTE cars, they are boring to drive and every other sim have them so I rather look for other types of cars.
If you like Formula cars there are a tons of mods and official cars you can choose from.
If you like touring cars then it's harder, there are some mods but I'm not sure about their quality.
Oval racing: official cars, tons of modded tracks, some with questionable AI, couple days ago I ran few good races at Richmond vs AI.
About tracks: the workshop has a ton of tracks, if you pick carefully (ie. finished or updated after 2020 and v1.0 or above) they can be very good. You don't have to race Le Mans or have to race the Nordschleife. I must admit I'm not a fan of Sebring (the track itself, I don't like flat tracks) but the Sebring made by S397 is superb mainly because of the bumps. The workshop is full of F1 tracks (I hate almost all of them because they are usually flat ) so the game doesn't lack in that department and there are a few US tracks too.

So all in all it worth $2.

sound: wait til Monday or visit the TEST folder in the Release Candidate.
US Tracks, Laguna Seca,
Elevation, Donington & Laguna & Brands, again Monday.

 

[Bela Valko]

sound: wait til Monday or visit the TEST folder in the Release Candidate.
US Tracks, Laguna Seca,
Elevation, Donington & Laguna & Brands, again Monday.

What I heard in the video from S397 for me it seems the "new" sound engine is like a new environmental effect added on top of the original car sounds. I can do that with the control panel of my sound card. The base sounds are bad and that new engine doesn't change that. But we will see/hear in a couple of days.
I'm pretty sure It won't be like this for example:

this 98% sounds like a real Vantage V8. It's a shame those guys only do sound mods for AC.

 

[davehenrie]

What I heard in the video from S397 for me it seems the "new" sound engine is like a new environmental effect added on top of the original car sounds. I can do that with the control panel of my sound card. The base sounds are bad and that new engine doesn't change that. But we will see/hear in a couple of days.
I'm pretty sure It won't be like this for example:

this 98% sounds like a real Vantage V8. It's a shame those guys only do sound mods for AC.

reminds me of the TVR from GTR2. You may be correct about the base sounds remaining, The guy supervising the change is from iRacing, so who knows where this will go? If they follow S397 tradition, they will introduce new sound files, but leave existing ones as is. (well, the samples the same but existing within the new framework) At least two mod groups are already updating their projects to work with the new system. I'm sure plenty will get left behind though.

 

[BrunoBæ]

this 98% sounds like a real Vantage V8. It's a shame those guys only do sound mods for AC.

This is a good in car sound admitted - but..
But it does only include 2 channel stereo.
No front/back and/or ambiance channels.

 

[RasmusP]

This is a good in car sound admitted - but..
But it does only include 2 channel stereo.
No front/back and/or ambiance channels.

To be fair mixing something to surround speakers is quite a lot of work.
Mixing something for stereo is pretty easy though. Put a stereo mic inside the car, record, put good stereo headphones on and things that were recorded "behind" the mics will sound "behind you" with your headphones on.

Now there are acoustic rules that in theory could be filtered by an AI to analyse the sound and split the channels but I have no idea if there is such a software really available at all or cheap enough for mod teams.
Like "50% to the right, early reflections with pronounciation on these frequencies = 80° right rear, 0.8m distance".

The alternative is to do it manually but I've done that once for a 1 minute scene and it was "okay but a bit meh", since when tearing apart a stereo source into 5.1 channels, you can do more wrong than right...
If you aren't a professional sound engineer.

There are however software solutions from the sound card providers or buttons on surround systems that will try their best on the fly. Mostly used for movies ofc.

I guess you're already using these and the results aren't anywhere near a true surround mix?

I had a Logitech surround system once with one speaker in every corner of my room (5x4m) and when cleaning/tidying it up it was quite fun to listen to music and basically moving around on the stage between the musicians.
It was far from perfect though..

 

[Bela Valko]

This is a good in car sound admitted - but..
But it does only include 2 channel stereo.
No front/back and/or ambiance channels.

Well, we could be nitpicky. But with my stereo headphones and with this kind of modded sound at least I feel like I'm driving a real car. This is just a mod made by one guy compared to a team in a company and this is probably not the best sound mod, I just picked this one 'coz I'm in love with this car. Here is one we can compare it to an official S397 car

Btw1: iR is not much better in this regard than rF2 (some cars are better, some cars are crap there as well) so I don't think a guy from iR can change this
Btw2: AMS1 and RRR with the rF1 engine has some pretty good car sounds (not all) so I don't think it's a sound engine problem, more like the recorded sound samples are the problem.

 

[BrunoBæ]

Without derailing this thread too much then lot of years ago I discovered how to enable NR2003 Full 7.1 Surround + EAX for Vista/Win7.
And I can garantee that the sound of this is much better (fully natural 5.1/7.1 sound cues) than both iRacing and AMS2, ACC hehe and rF2.

CatsAreTheWorstDogs: My own personal oppinion is that most newer sims does only "diffuse" stereo to something they call surround.
Good old NR2003 had/has SHARP sound destinction between as example front, front left, left, left rear and rear.
None of modern sims come even near this ideal.

NR2003 Full 7.1 Surround + EAX for Vista/Win7. - N2K3-Discussion

NR2003 Full 7.1 Surround + EAX for Vista/Win7. - posted in N2K3-Discussion: Since Microsoft destroyed the DirectSound3D and EAX for newer Windows platforms (Vista/Win7) nobody seems to be sure, if its possible to get real surround sound for NR2003 and its different mods. By real surround I...

srmz.net

 

[David Ignjatovic]

I think they've fixed some of the drivability issues with some of the cars, ie, the power spike on EVI F1 seems to be gone, the camaro and the corvette drive beautifully as well.
In fact i'm thinking they've reduced the centre point physics some of the cars used to have, so I'm now able to take corners at a reasonable speed and not spin whilst "applying" some measure of throttle input.

Regardless of where FFB ranks, its still some of the best.
Ive spent a few hrs on ACC and unfortunately that's all it took to convince me that driver assists as a baseline suck, as do almost indistinguishable cars.

They should've added more variety on cars.
I'd take AMS1 over ACC anyday.

I have a T300RS from 2016, and RF2 should perform even better with higher torque wheels, so if you're in one of those boats RF2 is definitely worth it for the sheer driving capability.

 

[BrunoBæ]

Well, we could be nitpicky. But with my stereo headphones and with this kind of modded sound at least I feel like I'm driving a real car.

AC - VRC Formula NA 2018 Sound Mod V0.9
Dont ask for my oppinion - because if you ask me then this sounds more or less awfull.
The sound is completely mono - but beside of this (or because of this) then its lacking any directional cues.
You can hear this when the tires visually does run over some bouncing curbs to the left or right.
No cues in the sound.
One place in the video there is rather abrubtly a switch on/off of some artificially ambiance/echo.
So dont ask for my oppinion

 

[Peppelino]

lacking any directional cues.

You can hear this when the tires visually does run over some bouncing curbs to the left or right.
No cues in the sound.

Even in mono you're supposed to
feel it in your FFB wheel, (L & R in
tyre bouncing) . No?
There something missing in all
these Videos...

 

[BrunoBæ]

Even in mono you're supposed to feel it in your FFB wheel,

Hahaha are you trolling me?
I)m talking about audio - you know that thing that comes into hea by your ears
But you are talking about FFB that comes through your hands.
And Im pretty sure you cant set FFB up to mono.

CatsAreTheWorstDogs: As I have said before my wheel cannot make FFB - even in mono

 

[Peppelino]

Hahaha are you trolling me?
I)m talking about audio - you know that thing that comes into hea by your ears
But you are talking about FFB that comes through your hands.
And Im pretty sure you cant set FFB up to mono.

CatsAreTheWorstDogs: As I have said before my wheel cannot make FFB - even in mono

Sorry, BrunoBæ I forgot that..
I know, you are on VR, m8.

Me having L & R bounce in my
Momo and with all Simbin..
Me seems to react pronto
to FFBs, than stereo sound...
Cheers.

btw.. sometimes testing without any sound.. to get the real feeling of the track or the new car.

 

[jgf]

Well we can always return to the old debate over sim sound - a realistic sound would be the dull muted roar you would hear through your helmet, not the open air engine sounds sims give you. Especially with modern helmets, your head is surrounded by 2-3 inches of heavy padding and you have earplugs; but even a fifties era brainbucket has leather/vinyl cushions over the ears. Create such a sound for a sim and very few will like it (admittedly I prefer the open sound, though i usually opt for mono engine sounds, too often stereo is exagerrated and just doesn't sound right).

 

[Durge Driven]

Been saying that for decades while you at it get rid of those kiddy arcade virtual mirrors lol

 

[BrunoBæ]

Well we can always return to the old debate over sim sound - a realistic sound would be the dull muted roar you would hear through your helmet, not the open air engine sounds sims give you.

Yes its debatable - but just like more or less all the socalled "autentic" incar sound recordings from both formula cars and tintops often include betwen 30-90% distortion from the microphone then using the "realistic sound" distinktion/award for this kind of recording is some kind of double-edged sword.
Because any change in a sound from the way it originally was can be defined as distortion
- so just because in-helmet and cockpit sound often gets muffled and dull by both foam and earplugs doesnt mean that this "distortion" of the original sound shouldnt be left to the personal preferances of the user of a racing game.

CatsAreTheWorstDogs: If he/she want to wear a helmet with a lot of muffling foam and stuff "distorting" the original principally undistorted sound - while he/she is sitting behind his/shes plastic wheel - then it should principally be up to this end user.

 

[SpiT]

Not everyone has a plastic wheel you know...
Fact is, what you hear IRL is different.
Only high frequency sounds and deep base sounds basically, turbo whine, transmission, suspension,gravel, curbs.
Still Hifi, but way different.

 

[BrunoBæ]

Not everyone has a plastic wheel you know...

OK - if you say so