Confessions of an Achievements Hunter

@leon_90 thanks for the article, an enjoyable read.

I'm with you, I like achievements although their influence over me has reduced over time. I used to chase them, even some of the really silly ones like collectables in FPS games etc, they were just a time sink. Today I like the really well designed achievements, as you've said the ones that make sense in the context of the game and show some progression in the game and or development of skill. DiRT 4 is the most recent game I achieved 100% in and I'm close in PCARS2 too but the last online licence is a grind when clean racing is still really only achievable with skilled friends.

If I was making games I'd definitely want them to be an integral part of the design, not an after thought as with quite a few games. The brain science is simple enough here, achievements need to trigger the reward system, release some dopamine and trigger the desire for the next achievement. When done well, such as the Gran Turismo licence tests of old with bronze, silver and gold times showing a progression in skill and development they are superb. Few games get it this right even today, as a training tool for racing games it is still excellent in the latest GT game.

The danger of the reward system trigger is where it goes too far. Games like the now infamous EA Star Wars Battlefront 2 that have so many progress systems that they become a chase and grind. They are making people who don't realise what's going on like rats pressing a never ending lever for a tiny reward. This gets even worse when the rewards are hidden behind a paywall, looking at you Shadow of War - no end game completion without spending money, though that is coming soon some say cynically now they milked enough money out of those prepared to pay. Worst of all are the EA loot boxes, those promises of rewards for payment that turn out to be random drops, the sponsored YouTube channels convincing kids they will get a great FIFA Ultimate Team player in the next pack. These are destructive overuses of the achievement and human reward systems, even Forza tried to cash in but that definitely didn't prove as lucrative as they hoped.

Back to racing games and the likes of PCARS2 really got the achievements right this time, encouraging the use of cars that most people would probably never use and the longer challenges were still realistically achievable for the dedicated. DiRT4 were all game related and actually things you could achieve in playing the game with some skill. Forza 7, on the other hand, with it's race Le Mans on Extra Long in the C6R was excruciating with the terrible Forza 7 AI.

One last thing, if games include achievements they need to work, unlock and progression needs to be maintained. I'm afraid Assetto Corsa on console let players down on all fronts on this. Some achievements simply didn't unlock, loss of career progression meant that other long term achievements were next to impossible or required a huge amount of repetition - with the risk that even today all progress can be lost for no reason. It was also never explained why console players were expected to achieve times often 1 second quicker than the already difficult challenges on the PC version of special events, and no the console cars/surface etc are no quicker.

Overall though I'm in favour of achievements where they are well designed and fit the game, help develop skill, or offer me an experience I maybe wouldn't otherwise have tried. If I find myself chasing an achievement for the sake of it, I am now wise enough to stop it!
 
Racingsportscars.com is pretty good. If your on the official forum i made a list of lap times from real life and added fastest RSR lap times as well... I haven't updated the RSR times for a while though.

http://www.assettocorsa.net/forum/i...time-comparison-thread-cars-up-to-1999.38084/
Here is the list if you aren't on the AC forum. I would sooner tackle the red times below than the game achievements

A list of lap times from Assetto Corsa and real life. Please correct and add any information you can find for cars created before 2000 that feature in Assetto Corsa.

*car* = real car may be a different version to the one in game.

Green = RSR lap time is atleast 1 second faster than real life.
Red = RSR lap time is atleast 1 second slower than real life.
Blue = RSR lap time is within 1 second of real life.

-----------------------------------------------
Monza Full Course
1954-1969

RL *Maserati 250F*
Year: 1955
Driver(s): Jean Behra
Conditions: Unknown
Lap Time: 2:50.1

AC Maserati 250F 6C
Track: Monza Full Course
RSR#1 Lap Time: 2:47.8

RL *Autodelta S.p.A. Alfa Romeo 1600 GTA*
Year: 1966
Driver(s): Roberto Bussinello
Conditions: Unknown
Lap Time: 3:07.4

AC Alfa Romeo GTA
Track: Monza Full Course

RSR#1 Lap Time: 3:06.1

-----------------------------------------------
Monza Road Course 1954-1972

RL Ferrari 250GTO
Year: 1962
Driver(s): Edoardo Lualdi
Conditions: Unknown
Lap Time: 1:42.9

AC Ferrari 250GTO
Track: Monza Road Course

RSR#1 Lap Time: 1:47.9

RL Lotus 25
Year: 1963
Driver(s): Jim Clark
Conditions: Dry
Lap Time: 1:38.9

AC Lotus 25
Track: Monza Road Course
RSR#1 Lap Time: 1:44.7

RL Ferrari 312
Year: 1967
Driver(s): Chris Amon
Conditions: Dry or damp (not sure.)
Lap Time: 1:29.3

AC Ferrari 312/67
Track: Monza Road Course

RSR#1 Lap Time: 1:27.8

RL *Lotus 49*
Year: 1967
Driver(s): Jim Clark
Conditions: Dry
Lap Time: 1:28.5

AC Lotus 49
Track: Monza Road Course

RSR#1 Lap Time: 1:26.2

RL *Alfa Romeo GTA*
Year: 1970
Driver(s): Rossi / Monti
Conditions: Warm Cloudy
Lap Time: 1:55.4

AC Alfa Romeo GTA
Track: Monza Road Course

RSR#1 Lap Time: 1:54.1

RL *Porsche 917K*
Year: 1970
Driver(s): Elford / Ahrens, Jr.
Conditions: Warm Cloudy
Lap Time: 1:24.8

RL *Porsche 917K*
Year: 1971
Driver(s): Rodriguez / Oliver
Conditions: Warm Dry
Lap Time: 1:24.0

AC Porsche 917K
Track: Monza Road Course

RSR#1 Lap Time: 1:25.9

RL *Ford Escort RS1600*
Year: 1971
Driver(s): Mass / Fitzpatrick
Conditions: Unknown
Lap Time: 1:46.2

AC Ford Escort RS1600
Track: Monza Road Course

RSR#1 Lap Time: 1:46.1

-----------------------------------------------
Mugello 1974-present

RL *Porsche 935/78-81*
Year: 1982
Driver(s): Moretti / Baldi
Conditions: Warm Dry
Lap Time: 1:55.3

AC Porsche 935/78
Track: Mugello

RSR#1 Lap Time: 1:54.0

RL *Porsche 962C*
Year: 1985
Driver(s): Bell / Stuck
Conditions: Cloudy
Lap Time: 1:40.7

AC Porsche 962C Short Tail
Track: Mugello

RSR#1 Lap Time: 1:42.0

AC Porsche 962C Long Tail
Track: Mugello

RSR#1 Lap Time: 1:44.4

-----------------------------------------------
Silverstone 1949-1974

RL *Maserati 250F*
Year: 1954
Driver(s): Stirling Moss
Conditions: Likely poor conditions
Lap Time: 1:47

RL *Maserati 250F*
Year: 1955
Driver(s): Roy Salvadori
Conditions: Unknown
Lap Time: 1:48

RL *Maserati 250F*
Year: 1956
Driver(s): Stirling Moss
Conditions: Dry
Lap Time: 1:41


AC Maserati 250F 6C
Track: Silverstone 1967

RSR#1 Lap Time: 1:45.6

RL Ferrari 250GTO
Year: 1963
Driver(s): Jack Sears
Conditions: Unknown
Lap Time: 1:43.2

AC Ferrari 250GTO
Track: Silverstone 1967
RSR#1 Lap Time: 1:43.9

RL Lotus 25
Year: 1963
Driver(s): Jim Clark
Conditions: Dry
Lap Time: 1:34.4

AC Lotus 25
Track: Silverstone 1967

RSR#1 Lap Time: 1:42.0

RL Ferrari 312
Year: 1967
Driver(s): Chris Amon
Conditions: Overcast
Lap Time: 1:26.9

AC Ferrari 312/67
Track: Silverstone 1967

RSR#1 Lap Time: 1:26.1

RL *Lotus 49*
Year: 1967
Driver(s): Jim Clark
Conditions: Dry
Lap Time: 1:25.3

AC Lotus 49
Track: Silverstone 1967

RSR#1 Lap Time: 1:24.7

RL *Ford GT40*
Year: 1967
Driver(s): Paul Hawkins
Conditions: Dry (damp patch at Becketts)
Lap Time: 1:36.4

RL *Ford GT40*
Year: 1967 (International Trophy)
Driver(s): Denny Hulme
Conditions: Unknown
Lap Time: 1:35.6

RL *Ford GT40*
Year: 1967 (Wills Trophy)
Driver(s): Paul Hawkins
Conditions: Unknown
Lap Time: 1:35.0

AC Ford GT40
Track: Silverstone 1967

RSR#1 Lap Time: 1:33.2

RL *Lotus 72(C/D)*
Year: 1971
Driver(s): Emerson Fittipaldi
Conditions: Dry
Lap Time: 1:18.3

RL Lotus 72D
Year: 1972
Driver(s): Emerson Fittipaldi
Conditions: Unknown
Lap Time: 1:18.1

AC Lotus 72D
Track: Silverstone 1967

RSR#1 Lap Time: 1:20.5

-----------------------------------------------
Vallelunga 1971-2004
Resurfaced

RL *Lotus 72(D)*
Year: 1972
Driver(s): Emerson Fittipaldi
Conditions: Unknown
Lap Time: 1:09.8

AC Lotus 72D
Track: Vallelunga Classic

RSR#1 Lap Time: 1:10.7

RL *Ford Escort RS1600*
Year: 1974
Driver(s): Kautz / Krebs / Heyer
Conditions: Hot Sunny
Lap Time: 1:22.8

AC Ford Escort RS1600
Track: Vallelunga Classic

RSR#1 Lap Time: 1:26.4

RL *Porsche 935/78*
Year: 1978
Driver(s): Ickx / Schurti
Conditions: Warm Dry
Lap Time: 1:12.8

AC Porsche 935/78
Track: Vallelunga Classic

Lap Time: 1:12.7

RL *BMW M3 Group A*
Year: 1988
Driver(s): Strycek / Ravaglia / Pirro
Conditions: Unknown
Lap Time: 1:20.0

AC BMW M3 Group A
Track: Vallelunga Classic

RSR#1 Lap Time: 1:20.8

------------------------------------------------
Mods (RSR times not updated)
------------------------------------------------
Bridgehampton 1957-1997

RL *Porsche 718RS 61*
Year: 1962
Driver(s): Bob Donner
Conditions: Unknown
Lap Time: 1:54.8

RL *Porsche 718RS 60*
Year: 1963
Driver(s): Sesslar / Cassel
Conditions: Cold Cloudy Dry
Lap Time: 1:51.0

AC Porsche 718 RS 60 Spyder
Track: Bridgehampton (old build)
RSR#1 Lap Time: 1:52.7

RL *Ford GT40*
Year: 1965
Driver(s): Skip Scott
Conditions: Cool Overcast
Lap Time: 1:46.2

AC Ford GT40
Track: Bridgehampton (old build)
RSR#1 Lap Time: 1:41.1

RL Lola T70 Mk2 Chevrolet

Year: 1967
Driver(s): George Follmer
Conditions:Unknown
Lap Time: 1:31.1

RL Ferrari 330 P4
Year: 1968
Driver(s): Pedro Rodriguez
Conditions: Unknown
Lap Time: 1:32.1

AC Ferrari 330 P4
Track: Bridgehampton
RSR#1 Lap Time: 1:36.2


------------------------------------------------
Donington Circuit GP Layout

Curbs may differ to AC version, possibly other changes

RL *BMW M3 E30 Group A*
Year: 1988
Driver(s): Ravaglia / van de Poele
Conditions: Unknown
Lap Time: 1:42.4


RL * McLaren F1 GTR*
Year: 1995
Driver(s): Nielsen / Bscher
Conditions: Cold Cloudy Dry
Lap Time: 1:31.6


RL *Porsche 911 GT1-98*
Year: 1998
Driver(s): McNish / Dalmas
Conditions: Overcast Brief Rain
Lap Time: 1:24.0

------------------------------------------------
Goodwood
(3.8km) 1952-Present

RL Lola T70 Mk2 Chevrolet
Year: 2015
Driver(s): Nick Padmore
Conditions: Unknown
Lap Time: 1:18.2

------------------------------------------------
Riverside International Raceway (5.3km) 1969-1989

RL *Alfa Romeo GTA*
Year: 1969
Driver(s): V Provenzano
Conditions: Unknown
Lap Time: 1:40.5

AC Alfa Romeo GTA
Track: RIR Short Layout
MP Time (94%grip): 1:39.7

RL Lola T70 Mk2 Chevrolet
Year: 1969
Driver(s): Jack Millikan
Conditions: Unknown
Lap Time: 1:54.3


RL *Porsche 935/78-81*
Year: 1983
Driver(s): Bell / Stommelen
Conditions: Unknown
Lap Time: 1:36.9

AC Porsche 935/78
Track: RIR Long Layout
RSR#1 Lap Time: 1:42.8

-----------------------------------------------
Riverside International Raceway Short Layout

RL *Porsche 917/30 TC*
Year: 1973
Driver(s): Mark Donohue
Conditions: Unknown
Lap Time: 1:10.2

AC Porsche 917/30
Track: RIR Short Layout
RSR#1 Lap Time: 1:09.2

------------------------------------------------
Silverstone 1967

RL Lola T70 Mk2 Chevrolet
Year: 1966
Driver(s): Denny Hulme
Conditions:Unknown

Lap Time: 1:27.6

RL Jaguar XJ13
Year: 1967
Driver(s): D. Hobbs
Conditions: Dry (damp patch at Becketts)
Lap Time: 1:35.7

AC Jaguar XJ13
Track: Silverstone 1967
RSR#1 Lap Time: 1:34.3


------------------------------------------------
Thruxton
1968-Present?

RL *Porsche 917K*
Year: 1971
Driver(s): Jürgen Neuhaus
Conditions: Unknown
Lap Time: 1:16.2

RL *Porsche 962C*
Year: 1986
Driver(s): Jo Gartner
Conditions: Sunny Cold
Lap Time: 1:13.0

RL *McLaren F1 GTR*
Year: 1996
Driver(s): Ian Flux
Conditions: Unknown
Lap Time: 1:18.2


AC McLaren F1 GTR
Track: Thruxton
RSR#1 Lap Time: 1:16.2

------------------------------------------------
Virginia International Raceway
1957-Present
Widened and resurfaced over the years

RL *Alfa Romeo GTA*
Year: 1966
Driver(s): Van der Vate
Conditions: Unknown
Lap Time: 2:30.7

AC Alfa Romeo GTA
Track: VIR Full Course
RSR#1 Lap Time: 2:28.5
 
I'm going to Italy in July and I'll be near Monza, so I'm hoping to see the banking for myself. I'll be in England as well but not far enough North to actually visit the Jim Clark museum or his gravesite, which I regret.
As to the achievements, I have AC, and the only time I see them is when they show up, I never really know what they are actually.
1967 is still my favorite F1 year, the combo of drivers, circuits and the great cars was really interesting. The Cooper years were my other favorites, along with all the Schumacher years as well.
Thanks for that great site with the F1 Stats!
 
Personally I don't really care about achievements unless afterwards you can honestly say you had to earn it. Most of the time achievements are just something easy where you just need to grind through. Just sheer repetition. There is no sense of challenge. Just work through it slowly. Win them one after another until you win an achievement. For this reason I never bothered with the ac "career" mode. Just mind numbingly boring beat-the-slow-ai races and easy time challenges. Can't even really remember anything about them because how boring those were.

In comparison some of the best (and worst) challenges were in gt5. The first online challenges were really difficult. The rx7 around tsukuba was really difficult and there were couple that were also really challenging. It took many tries and I'll never forget those. It really felt like I had achieved something even if it was just a race against ai in a simcade. Of course people were not happy that they could not just easily get those gold medals (too difficult) so the challenges were made super easy later and all challenge was removed. I'd guess people really prefer grind over working on improving. Gt5 had really bad grinds too but it had its highlights.

I remember a discussion on gtplanet about this and it was really sad to learn that most people think games should be easy because people have the right to 100% complete the games. Making it too difficult ruins it to those who just want the achievement without any effort. That kind of thinking really makes me sad. I want challenge. I want to learn to master something, compare my skills, share tips and tricks. Talk about it and work towards it. Not just press a button and hold gas for 30 seconds for a gold medal.

I can understand that some people want to complete a game. Get it to 100%. But if that means you need to remove all challenging bits from the game just so someone grind through it for a measly number then I think something important is lost. When you finish a game you should feel sad that it is over. Not happy that the grind is over.

The gran turismo license tests have also burned into my memory because of this. Some of them are incredibly boring but some are just plain evil. But when you finally have all golds you feel like you have achieved something. You earned those medals. You hate the game and hate life but you hecking earned those damn golden trinkets! It really feels great. And you'll never forget them. Which is the most powerful thing a game can give you. Long lasting memories, experiences and feelings. Things that stand out.
 
I'm not a 'fan' if they're required to unlock critical aspects or playable levels. GTR2 type achievements, wherein you could challenge the virtual instructor yet race every class with full content was good. I simply don't have the time to screw around trying to unlock content I've already paid for.
 
I hate it but I still doing every game to 100% :U it's a problem. In all fairness if done right they maybe alright? but I did not found a game where all of them ware fine, most of achievement are terrible like complete level 1, finish the game, get all achievement's achievement, do something so obscure that you can do it only by accident or with walkthrough.
Every game with achievements have some stupid ones if it's singleplayer once, it's not a big deal but they are in multiplayer that's a big problem. Trying to play new FPS in MP there will be at least one person doing those and craping on every one else enjoyment (if the game need teamplay). They should be done to push the player to be better like beat this or that time (or just simply make a f... driving school in your sim... opss sorry).
Nah they all suck either way and no one will miss them if they are gone but it's not going to happen because something to do with human psychology, some people are addicted to that.
 
I am currently missing the free competitions in Raceroom. It can't be that hard to set up, can it?I enjoyed having a go and comparing my time to others. Looks like paid "e-sports" are the go now, alas. As I am ususally hundreds of places below the qualifiers, these do not interest me. The scenarios in AC are also fun. As the author says, it gives you a purpose or goal that you may not have thought of. Good fun. Steam achievements generally don't interest me, though.
 
  • ronniej

Well, I've only tried with AC and the "special events", and while I was figuring on obtaining a couple of "Gold" trophies for my ego, it actually shrunk the size of my head with the more attempts I tried....White knuckled and sweaty only to be rewarded with a "Bronze" lol.
 
At one time, I had a collection of Road & Track Magazines going back before 1960 ... but about 6 years ago a pipe burst in my basement and turned them all into so much paper mache'. :confused::cry::cry:

As far as I know neither R&T nor Motor Racing ever archived their back issues to DVD. I shake my head sadly at so much history lost.

Motorsport Magazine maintains a very nice online archive of their articles.
https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/database/races/1967-italian-grand-prix
 
Well, I've only tried with AC and the "special events", and while I was figuring on obtaining a couple of "Gold" trophies for my ego, it actually shrunk the size of my head with the more attempts I tried....White knuckled and sweaty only to be rewarded with a "Bronze" lol.
AC special events are great, but I'd still do them even if steam didn't give you an shiny achievement medal.
 
I like them - I imagine they are relatively easy for the devs to implement, lots of people like them, those who don't can just ignore them and not have their game experience impacted one iota.

I'm by no means a "hunter" myself (I would say the vast majority of achievements I've attained have been pure happenstance), but I've found achievements to be of value when I'm either stuck in a rut or sort of have a vague feeling I'd like to do some lapping, but don't really have anything particular in mind. At those times, I'll sometimes scroll through the achievements and either find one that sounds fun to chase, or it will give me an idea of some car/track combo that might be fun.
 
I think we can all agree that only game-pad users, Those with an incorrect POV, and those lacking a hand stitched pair of driving slippers made from the most supple of llama leather would care about achievements and trophies.

The rest of us out here in the real world know its not a game, Oh no, Not at all.
 
One of the most important achievements is to grow up enough to start caring about more important things in life :)

It puzzles me how people are taking rF2's "achievements" seriously. Quite obviously it was an expression of what the devs thought about the silly stuff and those who absolutely need it to be added there.
 
I'm not a 'fan' if they're required to unlock critical aspects or playable levels. GTR2 type achievements, wherein you could challenge the virtual instructor yet race every class with full content was good. I simply don't have the time to screw around trying to unlock content I've already paid for.
Unlockables is one of the most ridiculous ideas, actually. It would make sense in free to play titles for the content you didn't pay for with real money, but for anything else it should be banned outright. Time is precious. Being forced to unlock stuff is a major waste of time with no benefits whatsoever.
 
I just don't get them, they were never a thing when I started gaming and have always felt like a half arsed tack on to make it seem like there's more to do in the game. There's no reason do go out of the way to achieve them and nothing gained from doing it.

If done correctly and with intelligence (that's a whole other argument) it can give incentive to try a game a different way, also it can reward long term useage.
 
I don't understand why you can't just set your own goals. I don't pay any attention to the prwpre achievements, but I constantly set my own with different car/track combos. Sometimes, I stick with a single car for a month, just trying to learn it inside and out, constantly trying to get another tenth here or there, or perfect a corner, or see what the highest difficulty is I can win at, or just try to beat my own peropers best.

Canned achievements are fine, I guess, but I don't really think they are necessary or needed.

erm you do understand people can set their own goals AND get achievements!!
 

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