Confessions of an Achievements Hunter

Basically it's human nature, we get all sorts of certificates and trophies for things we do in real life, why not have a bit of fun doing it in a game as well?!! Yeah some are stupid and/or just a bit of foolish fun, but many are pretty interesting and good.
 
Achievements in simracing are a derivative (bad ones at that) from the Fifa craze when they changed their engine and the game became better than the PES franchise.

They do nothing for me and I dont think I even noticed them until I tried to find my profile name on steam for various online racing reasons.

Could they be fun? Maybe. For me they'd have to be online only and only incorporate races entered, won/loss ration, disconnect/finish ratio. Something along those lines, reaching 300Km/h or racing with Fangio's car does not interest me, consistency, pace, closeness of racing does thus everything else are just details.
 
Basically it's human nature, we get all sorts of certificates and trophies for things we do in real life, why not have a bit of fun doing it in a game as well?!! Yeah some are stupid and/or just a bit of foolish fun, but many are pretty interesting and good.

Very interesting point, and I agree to an extent. If the achievements are super hard and require a lot of training then yes otherwise its like getting a trophy for 9th place and the community soccer tournament.
 
erm you do understand people can set their own goals AND get achievements!!

Of course I understand that. Not seeing the point or preferring something different is not the same as not understanding. I prefer to set my own goals. Also... The way it was written seemed to suggest that without developer genrated achievements, there could be no growth experience. That's not true.
 
The way it was written seemed to suggest that without developer genrated achievements, there could be no growth experience. That's not true.

I understand why you got that impression, but I assure you that it is not the case ;) What I meant is that achievements should be hard to get. They should reward you for having got better at something, not just because you got in a car (generic example :D). I said that because, as someone pointed out in the discussion, people think that they are entitled to get all of the achievements just because. That may be true for casual games, but in sims everything has to have a purpose, even trophies. Otherwise it wouldn't be a sim in the first place. So achievements are welcome in this genre, as long as they pose a challenge and a chance for learning and improvement. That's what I meant for growth ;)
 
Very interesting point, and I agree to an extent. If the achievements are super hard and require a lot of training then yes otherwise its like getting a trophy for 9th place and the community soccer tournament.

But people DO get trophies and certificates for that why does it all have to be super hard? These are after all only games and no matter how realistic they get without the actual risks the real deal involves it's an extremely santised version of reality.
 
I understand why you got that impression, but I assure you that it is not the case ;) What I meant is that achievements should be hard to get. They should reward you for having got better at something, not just because you got in a car (generic example :D). I said that because, as someone pointed out in the discussion, people think that they are entitled to get all of the achievements just because. That may be true for casual games, but in sims everything has to have a purpose, even trophies. Otherwise it wouldn't be a sim in the first place. So achievements are welcome in this genre, as long as they pose a challenge and a chance for learning and improvement. That's what I meant for growth ;)

Not all achievements should be hard to get though. I'd say 90% should be more fun orientated and to reward loyalty in keeping with a game. 10% more hardcore orientated for those into that sort of thing, the rarity would add to the Kudos.
 
Very interesting point, and I agree to an extent. If the achievements are super hard and require a lot of training then yes otherwise its like getting a trophy for 9th place and the community soccer tournament.

I think there needs to be super hard and super easy achievements. A well made game has some kind of natural progression and it is very easy to offer different levels when you have the base concepts working. Simply combining online leaderboards to offline special events already adds its own hardcore top level competition mode as the fastest people can compete for the top times.

As long as it is well structured you don't even need any real rewards except the achievement. Be that a small ribbon in steam achievements and/or a name on top spot in some online leaderboard. Making it online only with some kind of cheat protection becomes kinda important at that point (and no it does not cost billions of dollars, lfs has had such server since 2005) because otherwise people can just edit some text file and get all golds. I mean I don't really care about if someone does it in their own game but obviously such solution does not work for any kind of online leaderboards if the best time goes to the person who can first edit his lap time to 0.001seconds. Making it online also allows people to run their own competitions. Racedepartment could run its own weekly challenges for example.

Having such special events is great for new cars and tracks as well if modders can add their own when they release a car or track. And I don't really mind if the car comes with easy, medium and alien level difficulty events. The difficulty levels can be done in so many ways too. Either as separate alien level events for the most hardest ones or just a platinum lap time for hotlap events that is faster than the gold time. Slower people can try to achieve all bronzes or silvers whereas the best can try to get the platinum award or all time top time.

I would not want any cars or tracks being locked away behind such achievments though. It could work for gran turismo but sims should have all content available as soon as you start the game. And if you make physics changes you need to check all those lap times. Or many of them which can make it cumbersome to keep it up to date.
 
Basically it's human nature, we get all sorts of certificates and trophies for things we do in real life, why not have a bit of fun doing it in a game as well?!! Yeah some are stupid and/or just a bit of foolish fun, but many are pretty interesting and good.
I thought it was mostly a dog's nature... Do something the master asks you to and receive a treat.
Human nature is to explore possibilities freely while being wise enough to know better not to try every single thing out there.
 
I thought it was mostly a dog's nature... Do something the master asks you to and receive a treat.
Human nature is to explore possibilities freely while being wise enough to know better not to try every single thing out there.

Then lets get rid of all bonuses in the work place eh? or any sort of trophies/certificates mmmm?

Humans have "choice" and the choice is to go for the achievements or to ignore them, sadly it's also human nature to moan about something someone else enjoys even though it doesn't effect them at all.
 
Then lets get rid of all bonuses in the work place eh? or any sort of trophies/certificates mmmm?
Those bonuses are at least something practical. As for trophies, they are enjoyed by the same immature crowd that moans about not having "achievements" in games.

Humans have "choice" and the choice is to go for the achievements or to ignore them, sadly it's also human nature to moan about something someone else enjoys even though it doesn't effect them at all.
Well, I enjoy my sims without silly additions like the ones being the subject here, yet some people always find time to moan about not having them in a goddamn simulator.

As for the "choice", the best choice is to focus on the physics instead of wasting time on coming up with "great achievements" for the people who mysteriously ended up with a wrong genre choice to begin with.
 
Those bonuses are at least something practical. As for trophies, they are enjoyed by the same immature crowd that moans about not having "achievements" in games.


Well, I enjoy my sims without silly additions like the ones being the subject here, yet some people always find time to moan about not having them in a goddamn simulator.

As for the "choice", the best choice is to focus on the physics instead of wasting time on coming up with "great achievements" for the people who mysteriously ended up with a wrong genre choice to begin with.

Ah taking the "intelligence" and "mature" highground I see.....actually proving the opposite though.

Yes those who moan about them missing are just as bad as those who moan when they are in.

And as everyone knows the person doing the physics is the same person who does the achievements........ N O T

SMH
 
Personally, I like achievements. I think they add to the game a bit. It makes the game feel like there's more reason to play than just to have some fun. Not to say games without achievements are boring or anything. I just like to have something come from spending hours in a game. Something to show my friends "Look at how much I spend playing games". Or it can be something like "I finally completed one of these challenges." It makes me want to come back and beat it all. It's like playing a game with a career. You want to beat it. It's not necessary but it's a neat thing to have if it's not gimmicky and easy.
 
Ah taking the "intelligence" and "mature" highground I see.....actually proving the opposite though.

Yes those who moan about them missing are just as bad as those who moan when they are in.

And as everyone knows the person doing the physics is the same person who does the achievements........ N O T

SMH
Ending your post like that after ramblings about "proving the opposite"? Heh, well, I'm afraid you are not the one I want to hear that from.

Speaking of the person doing the achievements... I guess they are doing it for free and instantly?
A simulator doesn't need any gamey elements added to it more than, say, a piece of office software needs them. Sims are sims, games are games. End of story.

I guess the recent crop of drivers wouldn't mind their actual cars outfitted with ridiculous "features" like that. This world is becoming a sadder place as the time goes by.
 
Ending your post like that after ramblings about "proving the opposite"? Heh, well, I'm afraid you are not the one I want to hear that from.

Speaking of the person doing the achievements... I guess they are doing it for free and instantly?
A simulator doesn't need any gamey elements added to it more than, say, a piece of office software needs them. Sims are sims, games are games. End of story.

I guess the recent crop of drivers wouldn't mind their actual cars outfitted with ridiculous "features" like that. This world is becoming a sadder place as the time goes by.

erm no a "sim" IS a "game", stop being an armchair race driver (like an armchair football manager). these games we play are SO far away from reality. Do you feel g forces? Heat? risk of injury? I mean come on. That high horse is not a good place to be.
 
erm no a "sim" IS a "game", stop being an armchair race driver (like an armchair football manager). these games we play are SO far away from reality. Do you feel g forces? Heat? risk of injury? I mean come on. That high horse is not a good place to be.
Sims are slowly but surely becoming better at conveying the feeling of being in control of the modeled object. Of course, they are still far from being close to reality, but the progress is there, isn't it?

Don't forget that simulations of different kind are being widely used for training of the actual operators of the objects portrayed, and if they didn't help, millions of dollars wouldn't be wasted on this kind of software and hardware. Not to mention the engineering suites that, despite not really being real-time, are still simulators in their core. They actually help develop modern jets and other things.

As for the consumer-grade simulators, they are catching up to the training tools as well despite putting quite a strain on the gaming hardware in the process.

In my opinion, consumer simulation development should already move on to the modular plugin architecture, where the end user could easily purchase and swap out one physics or graphics module for another one, while the data would be presented in a unified format that could be read or converted on the fly by all the graphics modules involved.
 
Sims are slowly but surely becoming better at conveying the feeling of being in control of the modeled object. Of course, they are still far from being close to reality, but the progress is there, isn't it?

Don't forget that simulations of different kind are being widely used for training of the actual operators of the objects portrayed, and if they didn't help, millions of dollars wouldn't be wasted on this kind of software and hardware. Not to mention the engineering suites that, despite not really being real-time, are still simulators in their core. They actually help develop modern jets and other things.

As for the consumer-grade simulators, they are catching up to the training tools as well despite putting quite a strain on the gaming hardware in the process.

In my opinion, consumer simulation development should already move on to the modular plugin architecture, where the end user could easily purchase and swap out one physics or graphics module for another one, while the data would be presented in a unified format that could be read or converted on the fly by all the graphics modules involved.

Of course I wasn't referring to commercial simulators when I called sims games, should have made that clearer. I was only referring to the "sims" we all play. Yes they are getting closer but until they can replicate g forces at the very least then what we feel is nothing like reality. The real drivers not only have to contend with controlling the cars, but the physical exertion.

Look, you don't like achievements that's clear but why piss on something someone else likes? That's pretty base human behaviour according to any psych analysis. It has next to no effect on you, I'm pretty certain the person coding it will already be employed as the GUI coder so no extra cost is involved, unless you want an extra physics coder employed who would then have to do the GUI as well?
 
Live and let live.
Some people like them. They do want to search for them and complete them. It can give a title purpose and longevity.
At the same time, if you don't like them, you don't have to bother with them, they won't spoil your enjoyment of the title as you're probably already enjoying the core experience, which is great.
Unlockable things on the other hand are in an entirely different ball park and I really don't think we need those in sims...
 
Of course I wasn't referring to commercial simulators when I called sims games, should have made that clearer. I was only referring to the "sims" we all play. Yes they are getting closer but until they can replicate g forces at the very least then what we feel is nothing like reality. The real drivers not only have to contend with controlling the cars, but the physical exertion.
No sim is capable to replicate the g-forces in a plausible manner at the moment. Also, even FFB wheels have noticeable input lag, what can be expected of hydraulic platforms? A simulation is a math model first and foremost, everything else comes second. And in that regard consumer grade simulators are pretty good already. Some even get code from their commercial/military counterparts (DCS, Steel Beats Pro PE). Some commercial simulators are actually based on "games" like FSX and X-Plane.

If it was only about g-forces, we'd be hitting, say, theme parks instead of readying our trusty wheels/joysticks. Don't forget the main idea behind simulators. It's to make the controlled object model behave as close to its RL counterpart as possible, not to make you experience centrifugal effects and such.

Look, you don't like achievements that's clear but why piss on something someone else likes? That's pretty base human behaviour according to any psych analysis. It has next to no effect on you, I'm pretty certain the person coding it will already be employed as the GUI coder so no extra cost is involved, unless you want an extra physics coder employed who would then have to do the GUI as well?
Because I highly dislike it when ridiculous things like that are shoved down my throat without me asking. I can't exactly choose an option that would make them completely disappear (if they are already there). And now I come across a thread at nowhere else but RD trying to weasel its way into people's minds that "achievements are essential", "it's in human nature to care for them".

Please, if you find your habits embarrassing, at least don't try to make them look like they are the norm. It's fine to like achievements, but it's not ok to force others to have to deal with them. It's simply something shameful and it needs to be kept silent about, at least while around people who have taste, decency and dignity. I think there's enough forums about games out there. Why discuss this here at all?
 
And now I come across a thread at nowhere else but RD trying to weasel its way into people's minds that "achievements are essential", "it's in human nature to care for them".

Please, if you find your habits embarrassing, at least don't try to make them look like they are the norm. It's fine to like achievements, but it's not ok to force others to have to deal with them. It's simply something shameful and it needs to be kept silent about, at least while around people who have taste, decency and dignity. I think there's enough forums about games out there. Why discuss this here at all?

So, according to what you just wrote, I am some kind of pervert, without dignity and decency, just because I like achievements and trophies, forcing his preferences over people?

Look, you very much pissed me off with this last comment, which is beyond stupid and very offensive. Anyway, I'll that slide, as everyone is entitled to his opinion. You let that vent, so be happy about it. Now I'd suggest you let it drop.

Note, I advise the same to everyone else who think about replying to this specific message. This has to be a constructive discussion. Calling names and free offensive behaviour will not be allowed.
 

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