BUILD LOG: Racing + Flying VR Rig

I think it would be better to add (screw) the flat bars onto the profile.
The bars alone had to be quite thick to not bend.

Mr Latte could chime in on the better acoustical solution.
I´d think that the bars alone would be more prone to vibration??

MFG Carsten
 

Mr Latte

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@Mr Latte you're suggesting perhaps ditching the two 2020 seat riser rails, in favor of having 2 aluminum flat bars that replace them? Just want to be sure I am clear, because I am intrigued.

The 8020 linear motion with a locking clamp looks to be an ideal option.
Unlike a seat slider that usually uses pre-drilled holes, this action will be smoother and adjustable/lockable at any point not just distances between holes.

If something like that was used for the seat sliding motion, then it also makes it easy to add metal plates to better support /sandwich the 64mm isolators between the seat risers and this mechanism.


For some inspiration look at how the Playseat F1 Ultimate rig lets the seat and wheeldeck slide.
Ive seen other cockpits use linear motion based options.


I really think we can do this, break down each element needed but of course with others helping and come up with a better solution yet offering improved isolation and performance of the BK in the seat.

If you want, then let's have people discuss and offer other options....
If you don't want this covered in your own thread then please just say.
 
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Of all options discussed to this point (thank you, by the way, to everyone for the engagement and offering of thoughts and opinions here -- very much appreciated), I agree with @Mr Latte that the 8020 linear motion with a locking clamp looks to be the ideal option for the seat slider mechanism.

I am held up in meetings at work all day today, so haven't really been able to dig into the vidoes, but watching the first one I think this is likely to be a winner for me.

Side benefit is that I can then repurpose the current Sparco seat slider over to be used on my pedals as the pedal slider I planned to add ASAP...until I run into clearance issues there too :O_o:
 
In brighter news, between meetings today I moved my seat down in the seat brackets to the lowest level I can (one hole set down from before). I also pulled my DD front mount all the way forward and ensured I had the height maxed out.

All in all I probably gained 1-1.5” of clearance from before, maybe a bit more. It will be awkward driving on it now because the rim is way too high from the seat, but I wanted to test this out to see what extra space it could give me. Plus the awkwardness will keep me motivated to get that fixed ASAP with the isolation stuff being added and the first BK-CT being mounted to the seat.
 
MPqy1wc.jpg


Little before (bottom) and after (top). I think I will be able to make the clearance work just fine.
 

metalnwood

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Top shot looks high, bottom shot looks much better but you have changed the angle of your arms from 90 degrees to a bit more. Whether that will be a problem depends on how much force you run with your wheel as its certainly easier to control the forces with 90 degree bent arms than having straighter ones.

If it was me personally, I would have the pedals higher and a bit farther away, you can get more power when our leg is closer to extension and it may help get your thigh on the seat more taking some pressure off your tail bone as the weight is distributed more evenly. You dont want your leg at extension though, its still got to be able to move enough and freely to manage the pedals. This is a bit of a guess as a photo is not completely accurate to see what is happening. This may also help your idea to have the rudder pedals under the racing ones.

Re the pedals, I made up this to swap mine out. Very happy with this concept because there is no compromise on either pedals and it takes less than a minute to swap it all out, not long enough or cumbersome enough to put me off doing it.



Also, if you need to drop more as you work through things, I mounted my sparco like this. You cannot have a seat rail and at first I was a bit concerned about that as I have always had one but it soon became apparent I didn't need it but that is also helped by the fact I change my pedals so maintain ecactly the same seat position for either mode. The bottom of my seat is basically at the bottom of the side profile.
 

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Top shot looks high, bottom shot looks much better but you have changed the angle of your arms from 90 degrees to a bit more. Whether that will be a problem depends on how much force you run with your wheel as its certainly easier to control the forces with 90 degree bent arms than having straighter ones.

If it was me personally, I would have the pedals higher and a bit farther away, you can get more power when our leg is closer to extension and it may help get your thigh on the seat more taking some pressure off your tail bone as the weight is distributed more evenly. You dont want your leg at extension though, its still got to be able to move enough and freely to manage the pedals. This is a bit of a guess as a photo is not completely accurate to see what is happening. This may also help your idea to have the rudder pedals under the racing ones.

Re the pedals, I made up this to swap mine out. Very happy with this concept because there is no compromise on either pedals and it takes less than a minute to swap it all out, not long enough or cumbersome enough to put me off doing it.



Also, if you need to drop more as you work through things, I mounted my sparco like this. You cannot have a seat rail and at first I was a bit concerned about that as I have always had one but it soon became apparent I didn't need it but that is also helped by the fact I change my pedals so maintain exactly the same seat position for either mode. The bottom of my seat is basically at the bottom of the side profile.

Correct, the top picture is my "updated" positioning which intentionally leaves the wheel too high...

This is because I am trying to solve for how I could "make room" to cover my seat height rising by ~2" with the isolation materials being added below it. Once that is in place, the seat will be 2" higher and the wheel should no longer be too high. I agree with the pedals needing to be a bit further to flatten my legs a bit as well. Lastly, I agree my pedals can afford to be raised an inch or two (not sure if this also helps to flatten my legs?)...luckily, adding a slider + isolation materials will cause a 2-3" lift on those as well :thumbsup: Once I have the seat and pedals installed with the isolators under them, I can work on spacing of the seat and pedals (forward or backwards).

Very good idea/design on the pedal swapping. I will have a very heavy BK-CT installed to the bottom of my heel plate on the racing pedals, so not sure this would work out so well for me....but I have been brainstorming on something similar to this! Just need to keep thinking it through.
 
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Mr Latte

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Not sure if this is of interest as you may choose other isolator options
I have been working on/off with an advanced variant of the custom isolator solution shared.

It's about 2.5" uncompressed going down to approx 2" fully compressed.
It contains multiple materials I had purchased and tried over the last year.
Combining them into layers as one solution that performs better than off the shelf options including a few in particular that cost much more.

I am kinda torn as, interested in building a testbed and do more research. Part of me thinks there is perhaps a market for this type of product and wouldn't be that expensive. Specifically made to improve seat and pedal tactile for 8020 and custom builds. Well nowhere I am aware of, is offering such and tested with tactile for sim immersion purposes.

However to consider it seriously, the tools I would need to make them to the way intended would set me back about £400-£500, mmmmmmm.

Needs more thought...
 
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Not sure if this is of interest as you may choose other isolator options
I have been working on/off with an advanced variant of the custom isolator solution shared.

It's about 2.5" uncompressed going down to approx 2" fully compressed.
It contains multiple materials I had purchased and tried over the last year.
Combining them into layers as one solution that performs better than off the shelf options including a few in particular that cost much more.

I am kinda torn as, interested in building a testbed and do more research. Part of me thinks there is perhaps a market for this type of product and wouldn't be that expensive. Specifically made to improve seat and pedal tactile for 8020 and custom builds. Well nowhere I am aware of, is offering such and tested with tactile for sim immersion purposes.

However to consider it seriously, the tools I would need to make them to the way intended would set me back about £400-£500, mmmmmmm.

Needs more thought...

If you've got more details/pictures to share, I am certainly very interested. I need to get some of the isolator pieces ordered very soon, at least for the seat, but am very open to buying directly from you if you've got something available that you think is high quality.
 

Mr Latte

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If you've got more details/pictures to share, I am certainly very interested. I need to get some of the isolator pieces ordered very soon, at least for the seat, but am very open to buying directly from you if you've got something available that you think is high quality.

I have some materials coming as working on a couple of options.
Want to see how the bobbin based solution compares to a compression spring one.

I need to consider a test bench made from that tubing I use and I suppose that could form as decent videos looking at different transducers vibrations with off the shelf isolators to what I have learned so far. What I am looking at potentially is an isolator package of 4 custom made isolators for £50-£60 that works better with a wider range of frequencies tactile uses.

I've spent that on some single isolator solutions...
 
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I have some materials coming as working on a couple of options.
Want to see how the bobbin based solution compares to a compression spring one.

I need to consider a test bench made from that tubing I use and I suppose that could form as decent videos looking at different transducers vibrations with off the shelf isolators to what I have learned so far. What I am looking at potentially is an isolator package of 4 custom made isolators for £50-£60 that works better with a wider range of frequencies tactile uses.

I've spent that on some single isolator solutions...

I've got a month or so to wait for my NX3000D anyway, so I can hold off until you get worked through your testing. When are you thinking you might have them available to try (not sure how long your work above might take)?
 

Mr Latte

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I've got a month or so to wait for my NX3000D anyway, so I can hold off until you get worked through your testing. When are you thinking you might have them available to try (not sure how long your work above might take)?

I'm off work at the moment (furloughed) so have been working mainly towards my own build.
Let's see how things go as I have these ideas to improve the current solution.

I think to convince people to buy into such needs a testbed done to then do videos to show what benefits it then maybe brings. I wouldn't want to rush testing and would want to confirm from own bench tests they do improve enough over basic solutions to warrant pursuing.

Then if tests were positive, to see about refining with better tools and get some people with 8020 rigs to beta test before offering them for sale. Such could be done through the forums here but hey one step at a time.
 
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I'm off work at the moment (furloughed) so have been working mainly towards my own build.
Let's see how things go as I have these ideas to improve the current solution.

I think to convince people to buy into such needs a testbed done to then do videos to show what benefits it then maybe brings. I wouldn't want to rush testing and would want to confirm from own bench tests they do improve enough over basic solutions to warrant pursuing.

Then if tests were positive, to see about refining with better tools and get some people with 8020 rigs to beta test before offering them for sale. Such could be done through the forums here but hey one step at a time.

I will just get everything else installed and forego any isolation installations until you’re ready to go.
 

Mr Latte

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Okay, well just an update...
I have 4x different types of springs coming to compare some ideas. Also have some other foams ordered to apply with the alternative approach using the sandwiched bobbins.

Each option however combines different rubber compounds as well as other high-end vibration dampening and sound-deadening materials used in luxury cars.

Will keep you posted.
 
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What are the exciters of choice for the guys going the 2 big BK's + exciters route? Is it these?

Other (small) updates are that my NX3000D order was cancelled by Parts Express, I reordered from an EU dealer which has become a small disaster (details in the Tactile thread, if you're bored and care) -- will need to do some small DIY work to make it workable with my US home 110V electricity -- the bright side is that it will be here this week instead of late January/February like PE was projecting.

This weekend I am hoping to find some time to get the SpeakON cable cut and half and set up with the banana plugs. That's about all the free time I'll have. Baby steps, as usual, given the lack of free time with the baby. I'm still waiting on the backorder of the Dual Neutrik XLR / 3.5mm cable anyway, with an indefinite timeline on that from Amazon.
 
Still no progress being made on the tactile build out bc the Dual XLR to 3.5mm cable that was recommended is still "On Hold" from Amazon. Once that gets here, I will get to work. Not a big deal, really, because the baby takes so much of my time and I've got other things to tend to with the free time I do get anyway. It helps me to prioritize the important real life stuff vs being tempted to spend it all on this stuff :)

The big event of last week was my HP Reverb G2 going dead on me. I still need to get around to coordinating the return or RMA, but, I'm not going to continue on the ride for HP's little trainwreck here. Their launch has been a disaster, so despite how great the clarity of the panels are, I'm not going to waste my time anymore.

I ordered my second Index and another SteamVR Base Station 2.0 (I had previously sold my old 1.0 when I thought I was going to be ditching the Pimax for the G2). All the new kit arrived yesterday, and I pinned the Index up against my old Pimax 5K+ that I still had. Again, as happened when the Index first came out and I ordered one, the Pimax 5K+ won the battle so the Index is going back. The Index is a phenomenal headset; great build quality and is pain free to run, but at the end of the day it's not worth giving away FOV for basically the same clarity as the 5K+. The biggest (and really only) benefit of the Index is that "it just works", but I'd rather not buy something new just for that. Resolution in both the Index and 5K+ suck (even moreso now that I had gotten used to the G2), but the Index doesn't have a single "wow factor" to it's credit -- at least the 5K+ has a massive 170* FOV in Large FOV mode which "wows" me every time I load a sim up. I swore off ever buying anything from Pimax again (terrible company morally) after my 5K+ pre-order, but I'll probably keep an eye out for a used 8KX in the future. I doubt even my 3090 can run ACC in that, though, so who knows.

You know HP really f'ed it up when I'm electing to fall back to using Pimax instead (who I thought had set the standard for being a PITA and providing terrible software/hardware support)...

@Mr Latte let me know how the isolators are coming along if you have any updates to share :thumbsup:

I'm also still looking for some clarity to my query above:


What are the exciters of choice for the guys going the 2 big BK's + exciters route? Is it these?
 
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Mr Latte

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Recommended exciter is:
Dayton Audio DAEX32EP-4 Thruster
32mm Exciter Speaker 40W 4 Ohm




This cable looks decent but shop around on ebay or other musical equipment stores.

I did get some progress with the isolators, looked at several springs and different compounds of isolators. Its not been easy finding a good match in fit/stiffness.

Here are two options, a new spring combo compared to a sandwiched isolator. Other vibration/sound-deadening materials will be added with whatever options works out best.

It's getting a good combination that fits well and also can work better than a standard or single solution.



To mount these better would need a wider profile
Something like 80mm drilled in the center.

Still some options I want to look at but my focus is on my own build at present.
 
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