BUILD LOG: Racing + Flying VR Rig

Hello all! New sim racer here and looking to start a bit of a build log for a couple reasons:
  1. It seems like you guys like this stuff like I do :)
  2. Because I know I am going to need some guidance and input along the way
Before I get into the present and future of my build, first I'd like to briefly share a bit of background. I'm 100% new to sim racing (currently focusing on ACC only, as I love GT3 cars), but I'm not new to simming in general...

BACKGROUND

Around mid 2014 I heard about Digital Combat Simulator (DCS) and given I spent my entire adolescence wanting to be a fighter pilot (before the Navy told me the dream was dead due to me being red/green colorblind) it seemed like something that might be relevant to my interests. Boy was I right! As I assume most of you have experienced, I quickly fell down that peripheral rabbit hole. Said "rabbit hole" become more of a "black hole" that I was falling down at hyperspeed, and the rest is history. From one HOTAS to the next, I ended up becoming very enthralled with the high-end boutique peripherals. Over the ~6 years since I started on DCS, I've gone through waves of being on and off with playing - "off" times being mostly due to my career taking too much of my time and/or other personal life obligations - and I've ebbed and flowed with my level of seriousness with playing. I've joined virtual squadrons and fought in the SATAL league there, I've read military flight manuals front to back to learn more about operating the jets, etc. To this day I still retain a love and enjoyment for DCS, although I haven't played much the past year or so.

Around June of 2020, after years of thinking "I should get into sim racing" (and being told as much by some of my flight sim buddies), I started to get serious about it. Again, I fell down that rabbit hole and became determined to get a racing rig put together. The twist this time was that my wife and I were expecting our first child in July, and we had just bought a new home that was undergoing a lot of renovations...plus there was a small global pandemic going on. Not exactly optimal timing, but life rarely lines up perfectly, so I said "Screw it" and proceeded ahead anyway. With the learnings from my flight sim hardware shenanigans, I subscribed to the "Buy Once, Cry Once" philosophy from day 1 here with the racing build.

I had never sim raced before, but I own an AMG and have always loved fast cars. In 2018, I did an AMG Academy Track Day @ Leguna Seca which was incredible and gave me confidence that I would love sim racing the same as I do flight simming. That day I was told by "Nipper" (my instructor for the day) that I "was a natural", but still I never took the leap to get a racing rig put together. Now that has changed...

PRESENT DAY BUILD

At the end of July, after the baby had arrived, I started ordering the racing rig hardware and checking hourly for the out of stock items to come back into stock. Below is what I settled on for the build and I ordered as soon as the items came back into stock:
  • Rig: SimLab P1-X (Black)
    • Add-ons: SimFeet + Seat Rails + Seat Slider + Keyboard Tray + Mouse Tray + Cup Holders
  • Pedals: Wave Italy WAVE FORCE MONZA - SIM PEDALS PRO
    • I ordered the 2 pedal set with no clutch, as I have 0 intentions of ever racing a car that doesn't use clutch paddles
  • Direct Drive Base: SIMUCUBE 2 Pro
  • Rim: Ascher Racing F-28 Wireless
    • I wanted the F-64 but ran out of patience in waiting for Martin to get this back into stock
    • I might add a new rim in soon, but TBD (would be a F-64 or a Gomez rim)
  • Seat: Sparco Evo II QRT
The Ascher rim took the longest to come back into stock, which was painful, but by the end or end of October I finally had everything I needed. Those few months of waiting were rough. Unfortunately, the waiting didn't stop there as our new home had some undisclosed water damage/issues in the basement, which required a very costly waterproofing system to be installed. This also meant that the finishes of the basement needed to be totally ripped out as they dug the perimeter of the cement up to install all of that. While this was quite costly, it did mean that I had a clean slate to work with for remodeling my man cave...so that is exactly what I did.

The contractors were here for a month or so getting all of that done, and at this point everything is mostly finished besides some things I am going to DIY myself, and then having the painters come (which we cancelled in early December due to COVID spiking again, and we will likely have them come in the Spring once things hopefully have settled down).

Here are some photos of the build....

PROGRESS SHOTS:

G7QhMzh.jpg

DoiYrz6.jpg

JRGbkvE.jpg

Buk07PR.jpg


FINAL PRODUCT:

Xjkd9CO.jpg
vTdYAjy.jpg


I have since cleaned up all the wires with some TLC on cable management. I will get more photos of that up soon.

NEXT STEPS:
  1. Add a pedal slider to the racing pedals
  2. Add tactile feedback to the rig
  3. Add my flight sim peripherals to the rig
  4. Build button boxes for both racing and flight
  5. Add motion
With the guidance of @Mr Latte , I've gotten a small start on adding tactile feedback to the rig. Yesterday I ordered a Behringer NX3000D + 2x ButtKicker Concerts. Configuration of the two BK-CT's is TBD, but I am likely going to add one to the seat and one to the pedals. Unfortunately, the amp is on backorder under the end of January (yay, more waiting!) but once that is here it will mark the next big progress I am able to make on the rig. Once I get this all set up, I will work on adding anywhere from 4-8 exciters onto the seat. On my old flight setup, I used a JetSeat SE from Andre, which was very nice, but I know it will pale in comparison to what I am working on for this build.

Regarding adding my flight sim equipment to the P1-X, I still have some more thinking/planning to do on this one. Since we all love photos, here are some shots of my current gear...

FLIGHT GEAR:

0DD5zlE.jpg

Sbd180E.jpg

  • Rig: WheelStandPro for TM Warthog
    • Add-ons: Left Side RSG module
  • Pedals: Slaw RX Vipers
    • Add-ons: Motorcycle damper
  • Throttle: Custom made Throttletek F/A-18C throttle
    • Add-ons: Made with Halls sensor instead of a standard pot, and I procured ~$500+ worth of custom switches for them to use in the build, these are the OTTO mil-spec switches that are used in the real jet
  • Stick Base: Virpil VPC T-50 base
    • Add-ons: Sahaj 15cm Black extension
  • Grip: Thrustmaster F/A-18C Replica
    • I also have my old A-10C/F-16 Warthog grip from when I had a TM Warthog HOTAS
I've got some plans to change some of this stuff up a bit as well, but one step at a time...

Regarding the button boxes, I have about $1500 worth of mil-spec switches, rotaries, and other misc stuff that I purchased when I was planning to build a 1:1 replica cockpit of a F/A-18C Hornet. These are mostly Honeywell and EATON/Cutler Hammer, and are incredibly high quality with a great tactile feel. I've also got a landing gear handle from a GR-4 Tornado fighter jet that I will need to build into one of the botton boxes as well, as well as a landing HOOK handle. My point here is that I've got a lot of the materials already on hand that I can use for a racing box, I'll just need to add a few things here or there maybe.

While I've never soldered a thing in my life, and am largely not "handy" whatsoever, I did acquire all the necessary soldering equipment before...despite never finding the time to use any of it :) Hopefully that changes in 2021, but I'm not so sure given it seems that newborns take quite a bit of your free time, and I've got a lot already on my plate. Someday, though.

That is all for now....the baby needs fed again...but I hope you've enjoyed reading. I'll get the specs of my rig and VR put up sometime soon. Looking forward to hearing everyone's thoughts and feedback!

Happy New Year to all!

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Edit to add PC specs:

GAMING RIG:
  • GPU: Nvidia RTX 3090 Founders Edition
  • CPU: Intel i7-9700K
    • Still searching daily for a AMD 5900X to come into stock and allow me 2 seconds to be able to add it to my cart before the scalpers, and which point I will just go ahead and update the mobo, RAM, AIO, etc.
  • Motherboard: Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Master
  • AIO Cooler: Corsair H115i RGB Platinum
  • RAM: 32GB Corsair Vengeance Pro RGB 3200
  • Monitor: Dell U3415W Curved 3440x1440
  • VR HMD: Reverb G2
 
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Alright. got my PC and VR specs added into the OP. Now for some questions...I may need to dump these over in the Tactile Feedback thread instead to get responses, but I will try here first:

  1. Are there any USB soundcards folks are using for tactile that they would recommend? @Mr Latte had a few he posted in the other thread, I had honed in on the StarTech.com 7.1 USB Sound Card from that list.
  2. I also realized that I forgot to order a 3.5mm to Dual XLR cable for the BK-CT's and NX3000D, has anyone in the US had any luck finding this type of cable with Neutrik XLR's? Again, @Mr Latte had some reco's in the other thread but they all appeared to be from Euro retailers.
  3. Most importantly, any recommendations or ideas on how I should go about mounting the BK-CT to below my seat? Below are some better pics to give an idea of the space.
JzsbaA4.jpg
ofm1GTd.jpg
Nr4dgG2.jpg


My initial plan was just to mount the BK-CT to the crossing piece of profile at the front of the seat. As I continued to think about this, I got increasingly fearful that this might be too far away from the actual seat (with the cross section pieces of profile, then the seat rails + seat bracket being mounted on to that), and that the quality of the effect might be a muted/lost a bit as a result.

My most recent leading thought is to order a piece of profile that I could mount across the two pieces of profile that my seat rails/brackets are mounted to, attached using corner brackets. Quick sketch below, thoughts? I would need to mount the BK-CT upside down as there wouldn't be enough clearance for it to sit right-side up, but I don't think that should be an issue?

lW5QHvF.png
 

Mr Latte

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Thanks for coming here to Race Department Forums and giving me this invite.

This is really sweet and stylish, the room, the hardware, it's top drawer!
Oh man, you have an eye for style and quality.... :D

Look forward to seeing this progress and welcome you to the forums.

Community Example ?
Would you be willing to do more photos along the way and to use this thread as an example of applying recommendations for the tactile? My hope is, time invested in such a thread can then be a resource for others as some in the past have helped and I think such threads are visually interesting to see as well as get the owner's feedback and opinions on.

If you would, please more images of the pedals and more from side mounts (seat/pedals) and below the seat to illustrate how we might consider attaching the large BK and also using isolation.


Qs.
Is this an upstairs room with a wooden floor/beams?
Will vibrations in the floor be an issue for rooms below?
Do you need or want to keep the seat slider rails?

My Initial thoughts in reference to the planned tactile installation.
It's best to keep all the tactile queries you have here, your thread your decision what you do. I raise questions as points to consider and ideas on possible solutions. It's your call what you choose to do. Other members are welcome to query or offer their own experiences or solutions and if it be you accept someone elses suggestions over mine or do your own thing that is fine.

What you have illustrated does the same thing that a lot of 8020 owners fall into. The primary surface you are considering to attach the BK is the rig frame and not the designated destination for the vibrations.

So my point is, nothing stops the energy/vibrations from the unit on the planned cross-section flowing the whole length of the L/R sides of the rig and into the floor. You are creating multiple pathways for its energy to disperse via each connecting surface.

To make this simple, let me ask with this as a possible solution you were considering.
What makes the vibes from the unit go into the seat and not to those other areas mentioned?
Now also consider how much contact surface area the seat has and that compared to the contact/surface area and the volume of those connected profile parts offer.

The seat rails are thin but not only that the energy from the seat risers gets reduced to the 4 supporting bolts holding the seat in place. You can illustrate the contact the actual seat risers have or closeups of its bolts with the seat shell (additional images).

Can you illustrate these in response, and is this making sense so far?


Points To Note
The below are factors that will determine how much or what isolation to consider using.
The primary isolation is to keep as much of the tactile energy in the pedal/seat (target) areas to offer better detailing and more directly placed energy into the user's body.

You have basic and more advanced options, I get the feeling you don't go with basic but one of the factors that need to be looked at is, how isolation may alter the heights of the pedal/seat sections.


Look forward to more chatting and your thoughts.....
 
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Mr Latte

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Neutrik cables are very well made and one brand I like to opt for, I even had mine custom made to 7.1 colour coding scheme (Green/Orange/Grey/Black)

However, you will find various brands at varying prices.

Soundcard - Amp
3.5mm Jack - Dual Male XLR



Soundcards will vary a bit in the output level they offer.
I can see different distortion/noise from some units with my hardware monitoring but I have not done scientific type of analysis with specialist software.

Yes, some audiophile website/forums can be found that used to do this but ultimately most users with tactile will make do with affordable cards like these below.

This USB 7.1

This USB 7.1

This USB 7.1

I personally tried some of the budget ones but also, Asus U5, Asus U7, Creative Omni and my current favorite being the new Creative X3. I have not yet tried multiple X3 cards in Simhub but did find that it appears USB cards maintain their own settings even with multiples I had tried of the Asus U7.

I like the styling of the X3 as well and had been keeping an eye on discounts of the card to eventually buy 2 more I will need for the way that I will be using Simhub. For my primary system audio, I purchased the 2nd generation...

EVGA Nu Audio 7.1 which currently is one of the best, if not the best 7.1 soundcards that is available, err but at a rather high price.
 
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Responses to each section below, I marked the follow up items for myself in red so I can remember what I need to post as soon as I have a free moment.

Thanks for coming here to Race Department Forums and giving me this invite.

This is really sweet and stylish, the room, the hardware, it's top drawer!
Oh man, you have an eye for style and quality.... :D

Look forward to seeing this progress and welcome you to the forums.

Good to see you here! And thank you, the room remodeling is coming along well...but I hate when things are left half finished, as they are currently. It looks okay now but no where near finished. Lots of details and finishing touches to be done. I need to get the butcher block finished for the counter top (same finishing as I did for my desk I built in the picture), and then COVID needs to pass so I can get the painters in here to paint the walls, ceiling, and cabinets that were built.

Community Example ?
Would you be willing to do more photos along the way and to use this thread as an example of applying recommendations for the tactile? My hope is, time invested in such a thread can then be a resource for others as some in the past have helped and I think such threads are visually interesting to see as well as get the owner's feedback and opinions on.

If you would, please more images of the pedals and more from side mounts (seat/pedals) and below the seat to illustrate how we might consider attaching the large BK and also using isolation.

I am 100% supportive of that. I’ll post plenty of pictures, etc along the way.

I am totally clueless on all of this stuff, so will be relying heavily upon you and other who know this stuff well. I will be a good example bc if I can figure it out, that means that truly anyone can. I’m sure I’ll also have a ton of questions along the way, which others may find informative as well.

I’ll get the more detailed pics of the pedal and seat area up ASAP.

Qs.
Is this an upstairs room with a wooden floor/beams?
Will vibrations in the floor be an issue for rooms below?
Do you need or want to keep the seat slider rails?

This space is half of my basement, so no consideration for sound made in/to rooms below. The steps upstairs are right around the corner from my rig, and these lead right into my kitchen (with a wood/glass door at the top), so I am hoping noise up there won’t be an issue.

I don't want to keep the seat slider rails, but I do need to. I am going to be putting my pedals on a slider as well, and then went seat is full forward I will be in race setup, when seat is full back I will be in flight mode. I will slide the race pedals back out of the way when it's time to use the flight pedals. Need to figure the logistics of all of this out, but that is the plan.

My Initial thoughts in reference to the planned tactile installation.
It's best to keep all the tactile queries you have here, your thread your decision what you do. I raise questions as points to consider and ideas on possible solutions. It's your call what you choose to do. Other members are welcome to query or offer their own experiences or solutions and if it be you accept someone elses suggestions over mine or do your own thing that is fine.

What you have illustrated does the same thing that a lot of 8020 owners fall into. The primary surface you are considering to attach the BK is the rig frame and not the designated destination for the vibrations.

So my point is, nothing stops the energy/vibrations from the unit on the planned cross-section flowing the whole length of the L/R sides of the rig and into the floor. You are creating multiple pathways for its energy to disperse via each connecting surface.

To make this simple, let me ask with this as a possible solution you were considering.
What makes the vibes from the unit go into the seat and not to those other areas mentioned?
Now also consider how much contact surface area the seat has and that compared to the contact/surface area and the volume of those connected profile parts offer.

The seat rails are thin but not only that the energy from the seat risers gets reduced to the 4 supporting bolts holding the seat in place. You can illustrate the contact the actual seat risers have or closeups of its bolts with the seat shell (additional images).

Can you illustrate these in response, and is this making sense so far?

Making sense so far, yes. I will get some more well lit/closeup photos posted ASAP. I see a response from @Wmacky with a solution that might do me well. What do you think about that? I am guessing this is preferable to you, as it's mounted directly under the area I intend to feel the vibes.

I am fine with drilling into my brand new Sparco seat if it means better effects.

Points To Note
The below are factors that will determine how much or what isolation to consider using.
The primary isolation is to keep as much of the tactile energy in the pedal/seat (target) areas to offer better detailing and more directly placed energy into the user's body.

You have basic and more advanced options, I get the feeling you don't go with basic but one of the factors that need to be looked at is, how isolation may alter the heights of the pedal/seat sections.


Look forward to more chatting and your thoughts.....

You're right, I tend to avoid basic and go for perfection lol...to a fault, actually. On the pedals, I will get a better picture as well. My BK-CT should be here next week, I can check for clearance directly under my pedals. I am also in process of waiting on my pedal slider to get here, which should give me another inch or so of clearance vs what I currently have. I'm unsure of the height of the CT units as I've never seen one, but there's an off change that I could mount it (upside down) directly to the underside of my pedal plate, and still have enough clearance for the Wave Italy pedal tray to sit on/mount to the P1-X pedal deck.
 
Neutrik cables are very well made and one brand I like to opt for, I even had mine custom made to 7.1 colour coding scheme (Green/Orange/Grey/Black)

However, you will find various brands at varying prices.

Soundcard - Amp
3.5mm Jack - Dual Male XLR



Soundcards will vary a bit in the output level they offer.
I can see different distortion/noise from some units with my hardware monitoring but I have not done scientific type of analysis with specialist software.

Yes, some audiophile website/forums can be found that used to do this but ultimately most users with tactile will make do with affordable cards like these below.

This USB 7.1

This USB 7.1

This USB 7.1

I personally tried some of the budget ones but also, Asus U5, Asus U7, Creative Omni and my current favorite being the new Creative X3. I have not yet tried multiple X3 cards in Simhub but did find that it appears USB cards maintain their own settings even with multiples I had tried of the Asus U7.

I like the styling of the X3 as well and had been keeping an eye on discounts of the card to eventually buy 2 more I will need for the way that I will be using Simhub. For my primary system audio, I purchased the 2nd generation...

EVGA Nu Audio 7.1 which currently is one of the best, if not the best 7.1 soundcards that is available, err but at a rather high price.

Appreciate the Amazon link to the Dual XLR cable, it is out of stock but I will order it as soon as it's back! I've got a month or more until the NX3000D is back anyway, so, plenty of time.

I really appreciate the reading/info/links on the soundcards. I need to help the wife with the baby at the moment but I will give all of that a thorough review this evening.
 
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Wow, We have chosen very similar paths. Even the same computer case!
View attachment 432034






For seat mounting the BK, I bolted it right to the bottom of the seat!



View attachment 432035

SO happy that you found my thread! Why, you ask? Because when I was first seriously planning out the design of my multi-purpose rig (after deciding I wouldn't be crazy enough to do two separate builds for racing and flight), a weekend Google searching rabbit hole led me to your thread here on RD and I thought "Man! This guy gets it!" Love your rig, kudos on a great build. According to the screenshots on my phone that I took for inspirational reference back then, that was 8/23. When I finally joined here at RD and started searching the forums, I was always afraid I'd never be able to find your thread to ask the questions I had...

I will definitely need to reach out to pick your brain about the swinging hinge design you did for the throttle, if that is okay? I will also need to bring your thread back up to help me mentally map how I can best fit both sets of my pedals on the rig. The big pedal tray and heel plate that comes with the Wave pedals it going to give me some clearance issues, for sure. I am hoping that as the pedals continue to rise (with the slider being installed, and eventually with me just moving them higher) I can eventually get my Slaw's mounted up underneath the Wave pedals....and then I can just slide the Wave pedals back and out of the way when I plan to use the Slaw's for flight.
 
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Time to let the dumb questions start flying (they will become common from me here)...if I buy a X3 sound card, will that one sound card be able to drive all of my tactile? Meaning this 2x BK-CT from a NX3000D, as well as whatever additional setup I add with exciters? Or am I going to need a new soundcard for each amp?
 
Alright @Mr Latte, I hope these pics of the pedal area will do. I got the studio light out to make it bright and clear (hopefully), and apologies for any nasty dust, etc...it gets direct down here quickly.

I didn't bother with taking photos of the seat area because I am interpreting that drilling into the bottom of my seat and mounting the BK-CT directly to the bottom, a la @Wmacky 's photo, is going to be my optimal solution there.

Pedal space:

9aA6J3T.jpg
68Nu1IP.jpg
AkpjkvS.jpg
9XeFfSE.jpg


This is just the basic P1-X Pedal Tray, with the Wave Italy Monza style pedal deck mounted on top of that.

Regarding clearance: From the bottom of the pedal deck, directly under where the pedals are mounted, measured down to the top of the crossing pieces of profile I have about 3-3.25" of clearance. From the heelplate, I have roughly 3.75", maybe 4". When I add the pedal slider I will gain another inch or so of clearance on both numbers. From BK's website, the height of the BK-CT is 5.375", so it's not looking great to be able to have the CT mounted directly to the bottom of the pedals...
 

Mr Latte

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Time to let the dumb questions start flying (they will become common from me here)...if I buy a X3 sound card, will that one sound card be able to drive all of my tactile? Meaning this 2x BK-CT from a NX3000D, as well as whatever additional setup I add with exciters? Or am I going to need a new soundcard for each amp?

Simhub fully enables 7.1 or 5.1 cards to use all (8) or (6) channels.
You can also use as many soundcards or channels as wanted.

As your into flight sims then there are ways you could duplicate configure and adapt "Game Audio" to still give you nice tactile feedback. Best to look more at this later if any interest but you keep audio for speakers/headphones and then modify the duplicated output to suit the tactile. This means changes to the primary audio for the tactile would not interfere with what you hear.

Modified "Game Audio" can bring an immersion in tactile that telemetry-based tone generators like Simhub /Simvibe wont. I will cover a study into this and how ACC uses 7.1 on my own build thread I plan to do.
 
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Time to let the dumb questions start flying (they will become common from me here)...if I buy a X3 sound card, will that one sound card be able to drive all of my tactile? Meaning this 2x BK-CT from a NX3000D, as well as whatever additional setup I add with exciters? Or am I going to need a new soundcard for each amp?

I propose the you use one soundcard for BK's, and another for the exciters. EQ is applied to the whole card from sim-hub, so this would allow the entire group of exciters to be EQed without affecting the BK's which will be EQed with AMP DSP.

Pedal Tray - I'm going to reconfigure my setup so that the BK his mounted only to the heel plate that will be isolated from the main pedal tray.

I'm holding out hope that Simhub will add support for flight titles, but it doesn't look good. The creator seems to have zero interest despite numerous requests from others. I'll have to use very basic tactile support from my Motion software, or game audio tactil as Mr Latte suggests.
 
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Thanks guys. If I am going to go with two sound cards, I’ll need to rethink the X3’s. Paying $125 twice when I can probably use cheap ones without knowing the difference is tough.

@Wmacky I was actually downstairs staring at the rig trying to figure fitment out earlier. I mocked up a BK-CT (cut out of cardboard to size lol) trying to figure out exactly how to do what you mentioned. It would be my preference to mount it directly to the heel tray I have with the Wave’s. I would just drill holes into it and then bolt the CT to that. Just need to figure out how to get the vertical clearance without having my pedals so high I am jamming my legs into the DD front mount on the rig.

For flight, SimShaker for Aviators works with DCS, etc doesn’t it? That’s what I used with my old JetSeat SE and planned to use with this stuff. I don’t think it’s nearly as detailed as SimHub though. Shame the Dev doesn’t have interest in doing it for flight. Have you tried SSA?
 
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Thanks guys. If I am going to go with two sound cards, I’ll need to rethink the X3’s. Paying $125 twice when I can probably use cheap ones without knowing the difference is tough.

@Wmacky I was actually downstairs staring at the rig trying to figure fitment out earlier. I mocked up a BK-CT (cut out of cardboard to size lol) trying to figure out exactly how to do what you mentioned. It would be my preference to mount it directly to the heel tray I have with the Wave’s. I would just drill holes into it and then bolt the CT to that. Just need to figure out how to get the vertical clearance without having my pedals so high I am jamming my legs into the DD front mount on the rig.

For flight, SimShaker for Aviators works with DCS, etc doesn’t it? That’s what I used with my old JetSeat SE and planned to use with this stuff. I don’t think it’s nearly as detailed as SimHub though. Shame the Dev doesn’t have interest in doing it for flight. Have you tried SSA?

Yes, I had it with a Jetseat, but I did not buy the additional module for transducer use. Also, I'd like to keep additional software to a minimum.
 
Yes, I had it with a Jetseat, but I did not buy the additional module for transducer use. Also, I'd like to keep additional software to a minimum.

Roger that, I’m right there with you on wanting to keep additional software to a minimum. When time allows I’ll do some digging and reach out to some old DCS friends in Discord’s/other forums and see how they are making their tactile systems work.
 

Mr Latte

Premium
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Thanks for the images on pedals

Can you post images of the seat supports, as well as bolts holding the seat and previous frame sections for placement being considered for the seats tactile?

I want to highlight things for the seat that will help others following this thread before discussing options for the pedals.


Soundcards:
The X3 is a bit excessive for tactile purposes, I just ordered a 2nd (eBay) to see if they work in multiples as I originally had planned for 3 with Simhub based on the way my own rig will operate.

Simhub does have a limited crossover feature (basic but some uses) and yes it can be better to place the exciters on their own soundcard. So you may want to consider 2 soundcards for Simhub. Unlike Simvibe, all effects the user wants, are available to each card, the "effects routing" as well as "crossover control" is achieved with each individual card.

If you add the exciters later, then I believe you will want more than 4 likely 6-8, and use up its own card anyway.

Some people will spend big money on GPU/Monitors and yes fewer people will buy into higher-end or quality audio components. The reason being with audio it's harder to notice the benefits. Often it may be a user confidence/assurance thing. That in buying better, err will be better.

Like a scenario of someone buying a quality amp or sub/speakers will want better cables or interconnects?
A system is only as good as its weakest component, so do you buy a better card for the BK or just go with 2 budget ones, it's your call.

Honestly.... there are no recent studies on multiple soundcards focusing on below 20Hz output that I can find to determine pros/cons with budget or higher-end cards.
 
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For flight, SimShaker for Aviators works with DCS, etc doesn’t it? That’s what I used with my old JetSeat SE and planned to use with this stuff. I don’t think it’s nearly as detailed as SimHub though. Shame the Dev doesn’t have interest in doing it for flight. Have you tried SSA?
As @Wmacky states, you need to buy SimShaker Sound Module in order to make your shakers react to DCS telemetry. It´s about $20.
I also would recommend two shakers attached/drilled at the bottom of the seat, for flying I think it´s mandatory, so for instance you can feel what side of the aircraft that bomb you just dropped fell of.
Or what minigun your crew is shooting from in case of Huey heli.
 
Simhub fully enables 7.1 or 5.1 cards to use all (8) or (6) channels.
You can also use as many soundcards or channels as wanted.

As your into flight sims then there are ways you could duplicate configure and adapt "Game Audio" to still give you nice tactile feedback. Best to look more at this later if any interest but you keep audio for speakers/headphones and then modify the duplicated output to suit the tactile. This means changes to the primary audio for the tactile would not interfere with what you hear.

Modified "Game Audio" can bring an immersion in tactile that telemetry-based tone generators like Simhub /Simvibe wont. I will cover a study into this and how ACC uses 7.1 on my own build thread I plan to do.
While "game audio" is doable, I honestly think USB telemetry mode is quite better. A few effects might benefit from audio, such as afterburner, guns, touchdown, weapons release, but I don´t think it´s worth the hassle.
 

Mr Latte

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While "game audio" is doable, I honestly think USB telemetry mode is quite better. A few effects might benefit from audio, such as afterburner, guns, touchdown, weapons release, but I don´t think it´s worth the hassle.

Use both, each brings its own benefits or options.
Game audio does not always have the low bass for effects we need, that is why we can improve it with real-time processing. This won't be for everyone but trust me it can give the user additional immersion tools and options.

Much of tactile is also personal preferences too.
 
Images of seat supports, and bolts below @Mr Latte . The previous frame sections are mounted with the standard corner brackets and T-nuts from SimLab for the P1-X.

Also, wanted to reiterate that my updated plan is to bolt the BK-CT DIRECTLY to the bottom of my seat (exactly like Wmacky showed above), unless I am advised strongly against this. So not sure it's worth putting a ton of thought into this unless you're advising against it?

SF6Y8ob.jpg

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Regarding my selection of a soundcard, am I just looking for a USB card with 7.1 Surround? Anything else I need to ensure it has? If I can better understand the parameters for what exactly I am searching for/need, I can try to find an option somewhere between the low end cheaper cards posted ($30) and the X3 ($125) that seems a bit overboard for me. Maybe via a used one, or something marked down. To your point, I don't want to shortchange the rest of the system by cheaping out on a soundbard (i.e. the system is only as strong as the weakest component), but also don't want to overbuy for no real benefit. Anything $75 or less seems reasonable to me.

I will definitely go for 6+ exciters on the seat, and put them on their own card. Talking through this I believe/agree this is my best option.

@Alvaro de la Orden I will have multiple exciters put onto the seat for the localized effects in flight that you mention. With my previous use of the JetSeat SE, I fully understand and agree with you on the benefits those localized effects for dropping bombs, launching AMRAAMs, etc provide. Super cool and something I won't want to miss. Also, I already have sound of the SimShaker modules, so all set there.

SEAT TACTILE LAYOUT

On the back of the seat , depending on the size of the exciters, I will probably go for as layout like this with exciters where the X's are:

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If the dimensions of the exciters allowed, maybe I could mount them on the outside sections of the fiberglass instead of the inside section? I am not sure how big or small the diameter of the exciters are?

On the seat bottom, I would put the BK-CT where the circle is, and add two exciters where the X's are. This gives me the lows from the BK-CT and then gives me directional/detailed feedback on each cheek as well :)

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