BREAKING: GT Legends Rebirth Confirmed

Setron22

25RPM
Ahhh great news:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

i wonder if they`re going to stick just to modern tracks or will include some historic versions...
it would be nice to see historic zandvoort or watkins glen...
 

Paul Bennett

2000RPM
I'm hope we get an authentic GTL2 , with the original cars an historical tracks just as they raced at the time. Also a GUI to reflect the period, would be good to see some content from 1950's > 1980's aswell .
Tinyfeet please give us a stand out sim not just a make over.
 

Shenmue_X

75RPM
Assetto Corsa, Raceroom and rFactor 2 have put the level so high although they're not 100% focused on retro. A hard task is awaiting them if they want to attract a minimal part of simracers.
 

David Wright

1000RPM
I have the feeling that the "loophole" of licensing a historic championship much as in the same fashion Simbin did for GTL and the FIA license for GTR1/2 isn't going to work the same way in 2016 (or 2017 or whatever).
You may be right. Certainly the licensing seems to have got around restrictions with Ferrari and Porsche. But however things have changed, licensing a current series has to be easier than licensing a 50 year old series, and it gives you access to the cars for modelling, physics and sound recording. Lets face it your amateur gentleman driver in a current historic championship is unlikely to object to his name being in a racing sim, while contacting the estates of drivers such as Jim Clark could be more problematic.
 
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Ghoults

1000RPM
rF2 and AMS (2017 at least) are enhanced rF1, depending on your definition
AMS is not yet released so at the moment it doesn't really exist. Rf2 has years of development behind it and is clearly something that it is ts own thing instead of just enhanced rf1. I think rf2 has less common things with rf1 than sportscar gt has with rfactor. Or iracing has with nascar 2k3. Or ac has with nkpro. Or even smaller difference than forza 3 and 4 had. Or gt5 and 6. Doesn't mean those differences are meaningless of course not.

At the moment AMS has been in development with the source code maybe half a year? That is very much an enhanced version at best. Patched version probably describes it even better. It is not even a dig or insult towards them. Just a fact. Small development team, new source code to learn and very little time that they have had to actually work on it. That being said I'm hoping ams will be a big success and great product. After all I've pre-ordered it and their next game so it is not like I'm not willing to put my money where my mouth is. But at the same time you need to be realistic about its engine and the obvious limitations their chosen approach brings along.

I really hope this new gtl title uses rf2. It would be nice to see how that platform works for other sim. It would be also nice to have a new sim come out and not be yet another rf1 "enhanced version". No matter how people like to pretend rf1 is as good as any modern sim engine the fact of the matter is it really isn't. It is old.

Rf1 is (well compared to assetto corsa) feature rich platform. But also out of date platform in many ways. It was made and designed before we even had widescreen monitors. Back in the day when rf1 was at its peak people used 4:3 aspect ratio crt monitors and typical computer had less ram than modern day gpus have memory. I bought my first lcd monitor in 2006 and it was still 4:3 aspect ratio. That's what the source code back in the day was designed to run on. Nowadays we are talking about tripple screen setups and vr...

I don't think the physics fidelity cuts it anymore either. No matter how extremely well made car you have for rf1 you can do better with rf2 or ac. It will run better, look better, support modern hardware better and drive better. And it can do that in more diverse and detailed environment. The ai is better, ffb is better, the sounds can be better. Not because rf2 or ac is an enhanced version of rf1. But because they are more than one generation of software development ahead. Things should move on.

Sadly the realities are what they are though. Rf1 is pretty much the only sim platform that is available. And you can't really make racing sim with unreal engine. So if a new team wants to come in rf1 is probably their only hope and chance. Even if rf2 is offering its engine for 3rd party developers I'm not really sure how enthusiastic they at isi really are about doing such thing as their own sim doesn't seem to be doing all that well. Using steamspy rf2 had just 3955 individual players last 2 weeks while even raceroom had 37288. Assetto corsa had 54519 and gsce had 2542. To me that reads that any rf2 based game will directly harm rf2 itself because it has such a small audience and as such isi probably won't be offering rf2 for 3rd party developers.

Which is a great shame because not only does that hold back development of racing sims and reduce competition but it also prevents new development teams from being born. After all if in 2005 the only engine available for sim racers would have been nfs3 engine I doubt we would have slightly mad or sector3 and their products available today.

I really really hope this is for rf2 but at the same time I sadly find it extremely unlikely.
 
If this is a dev question thread then: Will this have period tracks and cars?

I really, really hope they do this the proper way, unlike in the original GTL.

This really needs proper period tracks, and preferably period cars too, rather than ones tweaked with modern improvements.
If you can do this i am definitely interested.

If you don't have period tracks then you really don't have a lot to differentiate yourself from RF2 / AC / whatever as they all have old cars but very little in the way of period tracks and atmosphere.

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To the people saying licensing will be difficult, i don't think anyone would mind to have the content in the game but with slightly changed names.
They did that in GPL for Cooper and Honda and it was fine there.
There is no reason for them not to do this for Ferrari / Porsche or even any circuits or drivers that they cannot license.


Also, i think licenses are easier to obtain for older stuff than you think - RF2 has Brabham and Hulme. They also said a lot of the older drivers and team manufacturers are happy to sign deals as they appreciate what people are trying to do with preserving the era.

If you had to have a Stuttgart 709, a Maranello 660q, Greg Mound, James Clerk and even "I Vigneti" for Imola or something, i think most people would be glad of that than going without or avoiding period content all-together.

Although i'm not really sure why you cannot simply use names like Imola or Silverstone or whatever as they are simply place names, and you can't copyright those!

Plus why would you need ones for defunct tracks like Rouen, especially ones that were public roads.



Since Grand Prix Legends in 1998 there hasn't been a historical race sim, not even GTL was.
I'm really hoping you can fill this void in the market that no one else seems to care to touch.

If there are just drab modern tilkedromed, ruined tracks then sadly i'm not interested.
 
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Peter Hooper

10000RPM
If this is a dev question thread then: Will this have period tracks and cars?

I really, really hope they do this the proper way, unlike in the original GTL.

This really needs proper period tracks, and preferably period cars too, rather than ones tweaked with modern improvements.
If you can do this i am definitely interested.

If you don't have period tracks then you really don't have a lot to differentiate yourself from RF2 / AC / whatever as they all have old cars but very little in the way of period tracks and atmosphere.

--------

To the people saying licensing will be difficult, i don't think anyone would mind to have the content in the game but with slightly changed names.
They did that in GPL for Cooper and Honda and it was fine there.
There is no reason for them not to do this for Ferrari / Porsche or even any circuits or drivers that they cannot license.


Also, i think licenses are easier to obtain for older stuff than you think - RF2 has Brabham and Hulme. They also said a lot of the older drivers and team manufacturers are happy to sign deals as they appreciate what people are trying to do with preserving the era.

If you had to have a Stuttgart 709, a Maranello 660q, Greg Mound, James Clerk and even "I Vigneti" for Imola or something, i think most people would be glad of that than going without or avoiding period content all-together.

Although i'm not really sure why you cannot simply use names like Imola or Silverstone or whatever as they are simply place names, and you can't copyright those!

Plus why would you need ones for defunct tracks like Rouen, especially ones that were public roads.



Since Grand Prix Legends in 1998 there hasn't been a historical race sim, not even GTL was.
I'm really hoping you can fill this void in the market that no one else seems to care to touch.

If there are just drab modern tilkedromed, ruined tracks then sadly i'm not interested.
Sounds like another Grand Prix Legends fan of old :thumbsup:
 

David Wright

1000RPM
To the people saying licensing will be difficult, i don't think anyone would mind to have the content in the game but with slightly changed names..
I would mind, and I'm sure many others would mind. If people didn't mind then developers/publishers would not go to all the expense and effort to obtain licenses, but they do.

Also while mod teams might get away with removing badges and names, developers can't always sail so close to the wind with likeness. Perhaps because most of us have been running GPL with the beautiful GPLEA cars we might have forgotten that GPL not only had changed names but the unlicensed cars bore no resemblance to the real cars.

I would also add that one of the good things about GTL was the attention to detail - for example there are 10 Lotus Cortinas in GTL but each one differs slightly in terms of its modelling. IMO this is because they were recreating individual real licensed cars rather than a generic unlicensed car.
 
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Maybe I am wrong, but a lot of guys here don˙t understand what GTL really represents.
No, we know exactly what GTL represents - we would just prefer an approach that is the same as GPL.
If you make a game with modern "historics" on modern tilkedrome circuits then there is really nothing to differentiate it from anything else on the market. AC and RF2, even pCars, RRE, GSCE etc all do this.
Sure there are some historic tracks but the only one that has done this decently is RF2 - the quality of their 3 historic tracks is really good. In AC they only have 1 track, Monza, and even with that, the accuracy of the surroundings is kind of bad when you compare it to photos and footage of the time (and to the RF2 version).

There is a definite market for historical period racing on tracks that have soul and character, unlike many today. Many people still race GPL or converted GPL tracks in other sims for this reason.

The problem is, GPL is very antiquated and can only be pushed so far. The same with the circuits - you can only do so much with the GPL engine, and rather than remake those circuits for modern engines in a detailed and accurate manner, instead, people are porting over the GPL versions.

Yes, it takes a lot of research and effort to make good historical content - something that few developers care for - check pCars Rouen as a really bad example of what not to do.
However it is seriously worth it when done properly - the 3 tracks in RF2 are really nicely done and the recent GPL community tracks are amazing too, it's just they can only do so much with the engine.

I would mind, and I'm sure many others would mind.
Of course it is better to have licensed content if possible, but are you seriously saying you would rather not have content than have de-badged versions of content where licences could not be obtained?
That just seems like cutting of your nose to spite your face and is a bit superficial :(

At least if the content is there, then modders can provide an altered model / skin to correct it if they wish.


GPL not only had changed names but the unlicensed cars bore no resemblance to the real cars.
That is simply untrue! A few drivers were not in GPL by default (i think Jackie Stewart, i can't remember if there were more), but none had fake names.

And the cars completely did bear resemblance to the real cars.
The only 2 cars that were unlicensed were Cooper and Honda, and both were in the game
Now you might say that the Coventry and Murasama cars in GPL bear no relation to their real counterparts but this is completely untrue.
The physics for those cars are completely based on the Cooper and the Honda of the period.
They just had changed names and slightly altered skins (plus i think they may have re-used other cars 3d models but i can't remember). I think even the drivers that drove for them were the real, even for the "de-badged" teams.

Also for fun, see:

I would also add that one of the good things about GTL was the attention to detail - for example there are 10 Lotus Cortinas in GTL but each one differs slightly in terms of its modelling. IMO this is because they were recreating individual real licensed cars rather than a generic unlicensed car.
Those two wishes are completely unrelated. I too wish for such attention to detail, but it does not rely on having licences.

You can make 10 different Cortina variants and different teams with fake names and altered liveries if you wanted to. You just base each variant / team off of the corresponding real life team or variation of the car. The physics and changes are still there, just the the livery is slightly different and named incorrectly etc.

Licensing is not the issue here, it's more down to developers not caring enough about attention to detail. You see it today with the modern sims - with AC or pCars or whatever, how many of them have the number of different variations and teams and whatever for their cars, compared to your excellent P&G mod?
They simply don't - and yet they have the licences for the cars and vehicles and could easily get team licences if they wanted to. It's just they simply don't consider the small differences between the updates for the vehicles as important or worth spending their time on - they cannot be bothered unfortunately.

At least, that is the impression that i get. I mean look at how many spec series there are.
Look at GSCE, the licensed a stock car series and use the same physics for every single car even though there are 2 distinct body kits. Sure, both cars may be built on the same platform but with the body panel differences, they would at least have different aero, surely?
I am guessing that they only have 1 set of physics for all trucks in formula truck too, where as judging from the little i can find out about that series, all the trucks are completely different.


I mean look at all the sims, the amount of spec series you see where they only make 1 single car from a series and can't be bothered to give it anyone to race against. Instead they just give the cars fake liveries to pretend to be all the manufacturers in the series.
It just makes it all a bit superficial and lacking the depth and differences and atmosphere.

One of the cool things about GPL was the cars were so different yet competitive. The Cooper was way slow but handled well so could still hold it's own on twistier tracks. Each car had its own personality.
 

Matej Lakota

Sriple Tix
I can not understand why you need to quote me in a part where I explained what GTL originaly is about and then you start to talk what "we" (so, also me?) want and about other racing games what they contain or what they don˙t. But anyway, I am with you, I agree.
 
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David Wright

1000RPM
They just had changed names and slightly altered skins (plus i think they may have re-used other cars 3d models but i can't remember).
The "Honda" used the Eagle 3D model and the "Cooper" used the Brabham 3D model. As I said, most of us have used the GPLEA cars for so long many have forgotten how bad the unlicensed cars were in terms of modelling.

One of the cool things about GPL was the cars were so different yet competitive. The Cooper was way slow but handled well so could still hold it's own on twistier tracks. Each car had its own personality.
I agree and GTL was/is like this but on steroids. Not just one 3-litre car being competitive with another 3-litre car, but 1.6-litre cars being competitve with 5-litre cars, 600 kg cars racing with 1200 kg cars, front wheel drive, front-engine rear wheel drive, mid-engine, rear-engine - completely different personalities. And the close competition is partly down to the modern tracks (few of which were actually Tilke tracks). At the original Spa the big cars left the smaller ones in their dust. At the current Spa there are just enough corners to give the smaller cars a chance.
 
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