Accuforce v2 vs. OSW vs. Fanatec Podium DD1? Which one is the best?

[NoOne3000]

I'm in the U.S. and am trying to decide which wheel to buy. I have demoed an Accuforce v2 and it felt great, but i'm wondering if i'm missing anything with the OSW and the soon-to-be-released Podium. "RON reviewt" on YouTube apparently was able to spend some decent time with the Podium at the Fanatec community event on Aug. 25 (in Germany?) and I asked him directly in the comments what his thoughts were on the Accuforce to the OSW to the Podium since Fanatec had all wheel types setup at this event. He seemed genuinely unbiased, and in his comments he said he felt the Podium was smoother than the Accuforce and that the OSW was just slightly smoother than the Accuforce and suggested I wait until more reviews and comparisons are released. Now, this could be due to the fact that Fanatec did not spend too much time tuning up the Accuforce or OSW thus inducing a feeling that the Podium was "smoother". I'm looking for some community feedback to help me with my purchase as I'm wondering if I can just go ahead now and buy the Accuforce with no regrets. And I don't really want to wait until December to buy a first gen product either. Do we think the Podium is going to be that much better than the Accuforce or OSW?

Thoughts?

Here's how the prices break down. The Accuforce is easily the most economical option. And it get's even cheaper on Black Friday when they offer it for $1050 shipped! (i'm not sure if I can wait another 7 weeks)

Accuforce v2 Complete System with Accuforce wheel and button box paddle shifters- $1200 shipped.

Simucube OSW small Mige wheel base - $1300 shipped, + Fanatec wheel/button box $400 = ~ $1700 shipped to the U.S.

Fanatec Podium DD1 = $1040 + Fanatec wheel with paddle shifters and button box $400 = ~ $1440

 

[o Tiger Feet o]

Ignore

 

[NoOne3000]

Any reviews of the Podium DD1 yet?

 

[RCHeliguy]

The Dirt-series may be an example where the fundamental ffb-settings are not as effective as they could be because telemetry-driven ffb can improve considerably on what the game provides normally. In such cases, having the telemetry option can make a big difference. Although, in DR2, even that seems to be problematic.

I was surprised how much the transducer on my wheel support helps in Dirt Rally. The wheel feels very alive.

 

[Mr Latte]

Question Regards Accuforce & Simvibe
What was the options it offers for RPM or extra tactile based effects?
Can a V1 or V2 User/Owner shed some light into what it could do that typical wheels do not offer
and if it was beneficial?

 

[Furnace Inferno]

Question Regards Accuforce & Simvibe
What was the options it offers for RPM or extra tactile based effects?
Can a V1 or V2 User/Owner shed some light into what it could do and if it was beneficial?

You can put a load of RPM effects and others on the wheel and it can deliver it with the same clarity and impact as a transducer rather than just feeling like a game controllers vibration motors. However I couldn’t comment on it myself as I turned it all off almost as soon as I hit the track, RPM effects direct through the wheel feel completely wrong to me but then I have transducers on my rig for that purpose.

 

[Mr Latte]

You can put a load of RPM effects and others on the wheel and it can deliver it with the same clarity and impact as a transducer rather than just feeling like a game controllers vibration motors. However I couldn’t comment on it myself as I turned it all off almost as soon as I hit the track, RPM effects direct through the wheel feel completely wrong to me but then I have transducers on my rig for that purpose.

Okay cheers, I have experimented with "wheelslip" being transmitted into a wheel via Shakeit (it felt in hands) and combined with being felt also in other body regions (seat/pedals) was quite good. I even tested this with feeling the effects in a joypad too (hands making contact with vibration surface). From those early tests (a few months ago).

I thought it helped extend the sensation rather than take away from it but I don't want "added tactile effects" to take away from the wheels own FFB detailing. Which RPM may do as its so constant. Stereo effects are also pointless in a wheel but "wheelslip/gear change" are ones I might at some point do more testing with via Shakeit.

 

[NoOne3000]

So I have a CSW 2.5 and as I mentioned previously in this thread, am wondering if its worth it to upgrade to a DD1 at this time.

Still don't see too many reviews out there on the DD1.

Too bad we can't 'try before we buy'........

Discuss.

 

[anton_Chez]

I think it's a worthy upgrade (OSW small Mige owner here) provided the DD1 is a comparable experience to the OSW. It's certainly not necessary and the V2.5 is a great wheel base, but there is a pretty big jump even from a V2.5 to direct drive.

 

[RichardHessels]

Not only. I don't think it was really a shocking surprise to anyone.

That's a 4 year old review, OSW firmware and encoders come a long way since than.
Old DD Servo's came with a resolution 5000-10.000 per turns.
My current big Mige does way more than a 1.000.000 per turn.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

The only significant improvement was recon filter that is only relevant to low ffb rate titles like iRacing.

 

[diablo2112]

That's a 4 year old review, OSW firmware and encoders come a long way since than.
Old DD Servo's came with a resolution 5000-10.000 per turns.
My current big Mige does way more than a 1.000.000 per turn.

Exactly. I upgraded my small Mige from a 40k to a 2.3M encoder. This made a very noticeable difference in the detail the wheel provided, especially on laser-scanned tracks. The original OSW was fantastic; the continual updates have kept this system at the bleeding edge.

 

[RichardHessels]

The only significant improvement was recon filter that is only relevant to low ffb rate titles like iRacing.

FFB is no rocket science. It's a motorized left-right turning axle with an encoder.
When there is enough power and enough updates per second send to the controller you want that signal as clear as it can be, and follow the FFB instructions as accurate as possible. It's the lower tie FFB devices that need more work, not to go out of spec, and still have a beleivable output without burning the motors or board.

Most work is done by the software controlling the FFB device.

 

[tomster83]

Can anyone confirm whether the Fanatec Podium DD1 / DD2 / F1 Racing wheel series comes with a universal switching power supply, 110v-240v? This detail is not available anywhere from Fanatec.

 

[Spinelli]

FFB is no rocket science. It's a motorized left-right turning axle with an encoder.
When there is enough power and enough updates per second send to the controller you want that signal as clear as it can be, and follow the FFB instructions as accurate as possible. It's the lower tie FFB devices that need more work, not to go out of spec, and still have a beleivable output without burning the motors or board.

Most work is done by the software controlling the FFB device.

Richard. Getting FFB right is quite difficult and we're not even close to proper FFB. A. we're using speed/position based systems instead of torque-based systems, B. we're using active systems rather than passive/reactive systems, C. we're using Microsoft Direct Input based systems which is based on very old 1990s FFB tech.

The crazy acceleration, speed, fidelity, torque, etc. of DD wheels (even when limited to low torque levels) have exposed the above and even FFB "gurus" and FFB wheel developers have acknowledged this. That's part of why the OSW guys are so hard trying to improve and add new filters, better internal processors of the wheel/board, etc., to try and alleviate the short-comings and limitations of current FFB technology/systems as much as possible. You don't want to just simply follow the FFB instructions as clear as it can be. Try running a DD wheel at 10, 15, 20+ Nm with running no filters like damping, smoothing, inertia, friction, recon, slew-rate adjustments, etc. It'll be ridiculously unrealistic.

 

[anton_Chez]

I tried that.

You don't want to do that. It feels NOTHING like a steering rack and everything like a machine trying to rip your arms off. If you want to know how much the software and filters do for FFB on servo motors, turn all the filters off and run at full power. You'll hate it.

 

[RCHeliguy]

I understand getting higher end brakes because being able to modulate your brakes consistently makes a very big difference in lap times. I understand for some, racing in VR has also improved their lap times.

With DD wheels what I typically hear is much less tangible. Forgetting the intangible liking how they feel, the comments about performance are typically, " I think I might have recovered from a slide with this direct drive wheel that I might not have with a belted wheelbase."

My point being that I've seen numerous graphs of people's performance in videos and on discord from people who upgraded their brakes or to VR and saw consistent improvement shortly after that upgrade, but I've never seen anything that correlated to a direct drive wheel. People say they think they can feel more nuances and they think they can maybe have slightly better control, but I've never seen anyone show results.

I'm not saying that I'll never get a direct drive wheelbase, but I don't see why they are way up on many people's list compared to say brakes that absolutely allow you to drive better.

I assume that the SimCube 2 and Fanatec DD wheelbases are pretty well shielded so they don't cause the EMI issues that some of the older OSW and Sim Cube wheel bases did.

 

[RichardHessels]

I understand getting higher end brakes because being able to modulate your brakes consistently makes a very big difference in lap times. I understand for some, racing in VR has also improved their lap times.

With DD wheels what I typically hear is much less tangible. Forgetting the intangible liking how they feel, the comments about performance are typically, " I think I might have recovered from a slide with this direct drive wheel that I might not have with a belted wheelbase."

My point being that I've seen numerous graphs of people's performance in videos and on discord from people who upgraded their brakes or to VR and saw consistent improvement shortly after that upgrade, but I've never seen anything that correlated to a direct drive wheel. People say they think they can feel more nuances and they think they can maybe have slightly better control, but I've never seen anyone show results.

I'm not saying that I'll never get a direct drive wheelbase, but I don't see why they are way up on many people's list compared to say brakes that absolutely allow you to drive better.

I assume that the SimCube 2 and Fanatec DD wheelbases are pretty well shielded so they don't cause the EMI issues that some of the older OSW and Sim Cube wheel bases did.

Rudy van Buren became "Worlds Fastest gamer" on a Logitech G29 with standard pedals.
Nowaday he drives a rig that i have built for him, with big OSW and Heusinkveld Pro's.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

I tried that.

You don't want to do that. It feels NOTHING like a steering rack and everything like a machine trying to rip your arms off. If you want to know how much the software and filters do for FFB on servo motors, turn all the filters off and run at full power. You'll hate it.

Not sure about full power as you still want to limit signal strength in game itself, but besides Overall Filter at 4 in MMOs that smooths out some too fine details, this is exactly how I run it, and LOVE it.
Everything else like damping, gyro, etc. are set in games. This is AC, rFactor2, DR2.0, and PCars2.
Are there some specific titles that really need all those fancy filters, I can only think of iRacing with its 60hz FFB rate?
Some people turn act of FFB tuning into form of self pleasure.
And yes, fancy filters can help the sales, of course.

 

[cirris]

I understand getting higher end brakes because being able to modulate your brakes consistently makes a very big difference in lap times. I understand for some, racing in VR has also improved their lap times.

With DD wheels what I typically hear is much less tangible. Forgetting the intangible liking how they feel, the comments about performance are typically, " I think I might have recovered from a slide with this direct drive wheel that I might not have with a belted wheelbase."

My point being that I've seen numerous graphs of people's performance in videos and on discord from people who upgraded their brakes or to VR and saw consistent improvement shortly after that upgrade, but I've never seen anything that correlated to a direct drive wheel. People say they think they can feel more nuances and they think they can maybe have slightly better control, but I've never seen anyone show results.

I'm not saying that I'll never get a direct drive wheelbase, but I don't see why they are way up on many people's list compared to say brakes that absolutely allow you to drive better.

I assume that the SimCube 2 and Fanatec DD wheelbases are pretty well shielded so they don't cause the EMI issues that some of the older OSW and Sim Cube wheel bases did.

I have been racing on "cheap" equipment for years. As I've progressed I've started caring less and less about lap times and more about simulation. That is, feeling more 1:1 compared to the real car. Lap times be damned. The way I've justified it anyways is even the most top of the line Sim setup with a DBOX platform is cheaper than buying and maintaining a track car!

 

[RCHeliguy]

Just to be clear I absolitely don't consider myself a role model for restraint and I am all about the immersion factor.