Modern and Classic Monza Released for Automobilista 2 in Latest Update

R.Man said:

The ACC verse and chorus again and again...

I'm a simple man, i've never been in any race car...so I need some external opinions to consolidate my own opinion. So for those who use to say ACC physic is bad mostly AMS2 fans , i would like them to share here some real race drivers feedbacks or reviews gt3 or gt4 or any other class that is giving realism credits to AMS2 gt3 or any other cars . I say that because ACC has lot of non sponsored real driver "realism" praises here and there and they started to do it around 1 year after the sim release.

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I only know one GT-driver (Lukas Luhr, won the 24h Nürburgring and Le Mans twice) who is driving ACC without any relation to Kunos (so no Coach Dave ) and he was saying, iRacing is obviously more realistic. He only knows those two and is a bit slow in ACC like me. I was watching enough onboards and the quick driving style in ACC looks to me like it's more FWD-touringcar technique. GT3-drivers rotate the car earlier on the throttle and never after the apex while touring-car-drivers rotate more off throttle since the cars understeer on the throttle. In AMS2, rF2 and iRacing you want to be on the throttle at the apex or even before and in ACC cars just don't rotate on the throttle and usually you just trigger TC with it. For me this is not acceptable and obviously BS. The GT4-cars in ACC are IMO much more authentic as well as AC in general. I would even say, if you drive a real GT3-car on the limit like in ACC, you don't survive one lap.

I find all the criticism of historic content perplexing. If there's anything we need now and will likely need more in the future, it's historic content. Beyond capturing these windows in time for personal immersion and fun, racing as we know it is likely a dying sport. Even if it survives in an electric form in 10-20 years, modern racecars, while fast, are completely different animals than they were in past.

I dont really understand how anyone can drive a high downforce, flappy paddle car, and say it's objectively superior in the driving experience itself compared to something like a Lotus 49. Low downforce cars really allow different driving styles to shine in their own ways, and H-pattern shifters add so much to the driving experience in terms of realism, coordination, and skill, that i dont know why anyone wouldn't want to experience that.

If nothing else, consider it like this. You can fly an F-18 Hornet in DCS, and you can get quite good at scrolling through menus and learning how all the avionics work and how the various weapons systems work... or you can hop into a P47 and get in a tumbling dogfight with a bf109 and struggle to get your guns on him. I know these are "simulations", but we are mostly playing this stuff for fun, and I think for many dogfighting with relatively low powered propeller fighters with guns and cannons is far more fun than modern long and medium range guided missile beyond visual range confrontations are. Even if you prefer the new stuff, the old stuff has a romance to it and is such a different experience that I dont see why anyone would not want the old vintage stuff to exist.

The same with AMS2, it does the vintage racing stuff particularly well. Low aero grip, high mechanical grip, low downforce monsters with h-pattern shifters are a completely different experience than modern high downforce double-clutch race cars. Even if one style isn't better than the other, I dont see why you would get angry that people enjoy the relative simplicity and mechanical elegance of racing cars from the 50s through even the 90s. I think historic racing simulators are the future because I think the time is rapidly approaching when motorsports as we know it will be a quaint anachronism just like piston-engine fighter planes with cannons on them.

Different strokes for different folks, my favorite part of AMS2 is I can drive a car from 1967, 77, 87, 97, 07, and 17 have fun in them all on era appropriate circuits.

My only wish is that they would focus more on the multiplayer experience since I dont see the custom championship mode and AI ever really maturing into something satisfying and comprehensive. Stuff like the mirrors not working properly, laps not being counted, inability to see sector times in the pits, the differential issues (while improved, there's still WAY too much diff drag on turn-in with the cars that highlight it, like the F-Retros), and even a basic scoring system that I proposed to just improve people's multiplayer ranking purely from percentage of race laps complete. Even if you manage to get a decently populated race, people quit at the first mistake or as soon as they realize they cant win, leading to less and less participation even amongst the motivated. I moved to iRacing and AC even though I think the physics model in AMS2 is superior to both. If they could fix the multiplayer they might gain some traction in the online community as a whole.

AMS2 is a gorgeous supermodel with a beard, or whatever the equivalent would be for the ladies. Ignore a few small problems, and it's really impressive, but taken as a whole the "warts" drive you nuts.

Leynad777 said:

I only know one GT-drive (Lukas Luhr, won the 24h Nürburgring and Le Mans twice) who is driving ACC without any relation to Kunos (so no Coach Dave ) and he was saying, iRacing is obviously more realistic. He only knows those two and is a bit slow in ACC like me. I was watching enough onboards and the quick driving style in ACC looks to me like it's more FWD-touringcar technique. GT3-drivers rotate the car earlier on the throttle and never after the apex while touring-car-drivers rotate more off throttle since the cars understeer on the throttle. In AMS2, rF2 and iRacing you want to be on the throttle at the apex or even before and in ACC cars just don't rotate on the throttle and usually you just trigger TC with it. For me this is not acceptable and obviously BS. The GT4-cars in ACC are IMO much more authentic as well as AC in general. I would even say, if you drive a real GT3-car on the limit like in ACC, you don't survive one lap.

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This is the most accurate description of ACC GT3s vs. the rest I have seen. But different strokes for different folks I guess.

InfernalVortex said:

My only wish is that they would focus more on the multiplayer experience since I dont see the custom championship mode and AI ever really maturing into something satisfying and comprehensive. Stuff like the mirrors not working properly, laps not being counted, inability to see sector times in the pits, the differential issues (while improved, there's still WAY too much diff drag on turn-in with the cars that highlight it, like the F-Retros), and even a basic scoring system that I proposed to just improve people's multiplayer ranking purely from percentage of race laps complete. Even if you manage to get a decently populated race, people quit at the first mistake or as soon as they realize they cant win, leading to less and less participation even amongst the motivated. I moved to iRacing and AC even though I think the physics model in AMS2 is superior to both. If they could fix the multiplayer they might gain some traction in the online community as a whole.

AMS2 is a gorgeous supermodel with a beard, or whatever the equivalent would be for the ladies. Ignore a few small problems, and it's really impressive, but taken as a whole the "warts" drive you nuts.

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The latest update broke the AI is my impression. I had quite good races with the AI and if you prefer vintage content, this is usually the way to enjoy it. The multiplayer should be certainly more in focus and at least they promised it. I would've liked the safety-rating just taken from pCars 2 because it is better than iRacing IMO and doesn't need improvement to improve the game, but I'm not a fan of ELO-rankings in racing and rather avoid iRacing for that reason (and some others). It often puts me into top-splits with over-ambitious iRacers practising far more than me and after finishing somewhere in the lower middle I notice that I would've dominated the 2nd split with my pace. And I don't like a bunch of evenly paced cars around me either, also the recipe for disaster. This might be authentic, but I don't envy racecar-drivers with all this competitive bullying at all and just looking for a good time, no pressure.

The diff of the Retros are fine and tons of turn-in understeer here:

But looks like the real 70's might had more tyre-slip/less grip for drifting:

More and more, Reiza's people surprise us. We already had several versions of traditional circuits (Silverstone, Hockenheim, Nurburgring (we would lack the original F1 version until 1976), Spa-Francorchamps (we still lack the original version of more than 14 km), Interlagos and now Monza (who knows it could to be included in the future the version of (1973-1975) And not asking too much, who knows to further enhance the range of classic circuit options with several versions, they could present us with the Montecarlo variants (1933-1971, the original ), the one from (1973-1975, with the inclusion of the "S" for the swimming pool), and the more traditional one, from 1976-1997, with the addition of the chicane at the tunnel exit (1986), and the chicanes at Saint -Devote and Anthony Noghes (1976) About new car classes, etc... I leave it for another opportunity.

AMS2 has the best gameplay, best graphics and best content, I'm enjoying so much this game, like no other before, the best experience in a race game! I don't understand why some people complain so much!

Marcos Santi said:

AMS2 has the best gameplay, best graphics and best content, I'm enjoying so much this game, like no other before, the best experience in a race game! I don't understand why some people complain so much!

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I cannot agree more!

The new DLC is amazing, especially the 1991 Monza, one of the best tracks ever.

BUT I hope that it can be tweaked for performance, this track together with the other DLC tracks: Long beach and Spa are the most demanding tracks. For VR it's really bad to have one track to be more "heavy" then a other track because then you have to turn all settings down to maintain 90fps in all tracks.

So please Reiza, don't make the tracks heavier with each DLC and I hope that these 3 tracks could be optimized because it forces me to turn the graphics down for all other tracks...

That's the only thing I ask. Besides that: thanks again for the GREAT work, instant puchase of course...

Marcos Santi said:

AMS2 has the best gameplay, best graphics and best content, I'm enjoying so much this game, like no other before, the best experience in a race game! I don't understand why some people complain so much!

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Once you accept to understand, you will understand... Behind every reaction and behaviour, there is always a reason. No sim is perfect but unfortunately in reality, the imperfection freedom which is often decising making is in a delimited area, any sim should not go and stay outside otherwise, it may face some storm. Many sim tried to stay outside but went back after facing the storm sometimes on time sometimes too late.... ACC(handling and performance issues at launch), RF2 (graphic, content and pricing issues), RRRE (graphic, handling and pricing issues) etc. Graphic issues are the most tolerated.AMS2 should take lessons from the past as it seems having all the issues that accompagned the 3 previous sim like handling, content and pricing, etc. There are exceptions like the SMS studio which from PC1 to PC3 gone totally wild, and we see where it is now.

Leynad777 said:

I only know one GT-driver (Lukas Luhr, won the 24h Nürburgring and Le Mans twice) who is driving ACC without any relation to Kunos (so no Coach Dave ) and he was saying, iRacing is obviously more realistic. He only knows those two and is a bit slow in ACC like me. I was watching enough onboards and the quick driving style in ACC looks to me like it's more FWD-touringcar technique. GT3-drivers rotate the car earlier on the throttle and never after the apex while touring-car-drivers rotate more off throttle since the cars understeer on the throttle. In AMS2, rF2 and iRacing you want to be on the throttle at the apex or even before and in ACC cars just don't rotate on the throttle and usually you just trigger TC with it. For me this is not acceptable and obviously BS. The GT4-cars in ACC are IMO much more authentic as well as AC in general. I would even say, if you drive a real GT3-car on the limit like in ACC, you don't survive one lap.

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If he said , iracing is more realistic , doesn't it means that ACC is realistic? Iracing is just "more". ACC gt3 vs iracing gt3 is an another big topic. For the price iracing MUST give us something good. What I would like to see is him trying AMS2 and tell us what he thinks, that's the purpose of my comment. Once we get a fair amount of real world unbiased race drivers validations, those people criticizing AMS2 will shut their mouth definitively and this endless clash will be over.

Well, let the critics (AI, drivability etc.) behind for a moment,

Automobilista 2 feels like the rebirth of "Grand Prix Legends" now riding through the steep curves of Monza.

Reiza has done a real fantastic job providing an
absoultely awesome track, nearly every tree on the track is looking unique, the tarmac feels great, the side objects and even the details in far distance of the track are looking perfectly good.

More up than I have for Reiza providing us with the most nice track they released ever !

Hope the promised BMW 2002 Turbo will arrive with an additional update in the next days.

Have a nicve day and keep on racin' !

Badwheels said:

Wow, people here are making me feel so much better about myself and my driving ability. I have AMS2, ACC, AC, F1 2019-20,RF2 and PC2. I must be the greatest driver in the world because I just drive them all, with their individual quirks, and have a great time in them all.

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ME TOO!!!!1
i drive AC, ACC, AMS2, pCARS2, BEAM.NG, rFACTOR2, RRRE, iRacing, Wreckfest
Each of them is SLIGHTLY different driving, but all is SIMILAR driving at the same time..
by using 9 (NINE) different sims, which are at same time different but still similar to themselfes, i basically treat REAL LIFE as my 10 (TENTH) sim xD which is still DIFFERENT but still SIMILAR to rest of my sims xD
what i mean to say some people tend to choose ONE sim and they drive only that sim to be best in that one sim, for me its boring as they MASTER one sims behaviours, they make sim racing into mathematics, they remember how to turn wheel wheen, how much % to press throttle and thats how they become best of best... Me by driving many sims i not need to be best, i ONLY need to increase my skills behind REAL car..
Thats even what former F1 driver from my country said Robert Kubica, he told that he thinks "simracers are experts in them genre and not try to compare them to real racers, as its different thing, that no BEST simracer can have chance agains REAL racer in REAL LIFE, and vice versa no REAL racer can have chance agains sim racer in SIM" he told exactly that "sim racers are experts in them genre" you may not understand me what i mean but i know for sure what He meant, that sim racers know every inch of tharck, every percent of throttle and wheel and brake input... so basically to be best in sim you must ALWAYS make perfect lap,, and in real life its all about GUTS... and i mean not only courage but GUTS literally which will withstand g-forces......

exactly what he said at 23:45 you can translate it:

He said no commercial game or even SIMULATOR that you can HAVE AT HOME and/or pay subscription for it (he mean iRacing for sure) is NOT ON A LEVEL OF REAL RACING, of driving real car as driving in sim on chair in your room is so much different than driving REAL LIFE in a REAL CAR
HE SAID if SIMULATOR could SIMULATE REAL WORLD for 100% we would have DIFFERENT world champions RACERS XDhe said sim racest are SPECIALISTS in them genre they train for so much HOURS DAILY and they are best and he as real racing driver has no chance againts them, and vice versa.
It take differnet character/personality to be sim racer or real racing driver, he said that

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Where is the BMW 2002 Turbo that was promised at the end of September???

for me its like:
assetto corsa at certaint wheel degree car starts understeer
AND AT THE SAME TIME IN
REAL LIFE/AMS2 car STARTS to turn
know what i mean???
for example 360 degree rotation open wheeler in real life/AMS2 start to turn at 90/180 degree of wheel rotation
AND AT THE SAME TIME
in aseto corsa it STARTS UNDERSTEERING
so in same car in REAL LIFE/AMS2 you must turn wheel 90/180 degrees to make it turn, ans in AC you must make 45 degree for it to turn, but if you make 90/180 degrees it UNDERSTEERS as tyre physicks is shieet in AC actually.
so you are so used to aseto corsa physicks that you not make turn in AMS2 cause you not turn your wheel enough for car to turn.. and if it turns actually you tell its acradish physicks cause car turnd at such "HIGH" degrees xD
ALSO i saw famous youtuber bashing AMS2 for DRIFTING open wheelers... so LEMME TELL YOU someting:
actually to drive open wheeler FASTEST you must SLIGHTLY make it drift..
and LEMME TELL you more : it not someting NEW,,, it actually worked like that in 1960s xD
here nordschleife F1 footage,,, notice how those |OPEN WHEELERS NOT MEANT TO DRIFT" actually drift almost every turn xD
i remember same claims was made for pCARS2 "cars turn from the center, not from front bla bla bla" and actually real cars turn from the center, centripetal force.. not from front lol
here footage how cars in 60s turn from center, how "slidey" , not stable they are, how drivers must correct steering every turn.. notice they not hold it steady as in aseto corsa, they wobble wheel every turn, cars so unstable, just like in AMS2 you may experience... and simracers tel its unrealitic.. i laugh at you

Leemz said:

Where is the BMW 2002 Turbo that was promised at the end of September???

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Reiza decided to postpone the Bimmer release a little bit because they didn't want to release it in that state. Should arrive the next days I guess.

Has any of you guys seen AMS2 at recent SimExpo?
Did Reiza have own booth or any HW manufacturers used it for demoing their stuff? What were the most popular titles there?

Leynad777 said:

The latest update broke the AI is my impression. I had quite good races with the AI and if you prefer vintage content, this is usually the way to enjoy it. The multiplayer should be certainly more in focus and at least they promised it. I would've liked the safety-rating just taken from pCars 2 because it is better than iRacing IMO and doesn't need improvement to improve the game, but I'm not a fan of ELO-rankings in racing and rather avoid iRacing for that reason (and some others). It often puts me into top-splits with over-ambitious iRacers practising far more than me and after finishing somewhere in the lower middle I notice that I would've dominated the 2nd split with my pace. And I don't like a bunch of evenly paced cars around me either, also the recipe for disaster. This might be authentic, but I don't envy racecar-drivers with all this competitive bullying at all and just looking for a good time, no pressure.

The diff of the Retros are fine and tons of turn-in understeer here:

But looks like the real 70's might had more tyre-slip/less grip for drifting:

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We have had this discussion before, but I respectfully disagree.

Go drive a Vintage Gen 1/2, or a F-Retro Gen 1 (the Gen 2's have more downforce, so it's not as noticeable) at Imola 72, and trying to get the car to turn into Tosa is a nightmare. It's very, very intense understeer, and then a sudden unlocking of the diff and the car rotates, even when speed is constant. The initial reluctance to turn in may or may not be the diffs, but it is not normal. No other sim that has these cars allows them to behave that way. There's no reason the front tires would have more grip during steady state, high-g cornering than they would under hard braking and corner entry, if anything it should be the opposite. Additionally, with the amount of wheel scrub that is induced in the severe initial understeer, if anything the front tires should KEEP understeering through the rest of the corner, but they don't. They suddenly grip and the car turns the way it should.

You're forced to aggressively brake pivot/turn the car to get around the understeer problem. If it was consistent through the rest of the corner, I would be more okay with it, but it's not. Since I think the tire model is pretty spot on with most other things, still think it's something with the diff not allowing the car to rotate. Again, I remember when the F-Retro cars were first released with the V1.0, and the geared diff was available and this behavior was practically non-existent with the geared differential As soon as they removed the geared differential option, the ridiculous snow plow turn in behavior that isnt replicated in any other sim returned. And yes, I tried it with the geared diff and the clutch diff back to back when they were both available. Something is wrong with the way something is modeled in the driveline.

And regarding the car in the video, that's a historic race, likely with a very, very conservative understeery setup, and they're probably not even getting the tires properly warm. It's irrelevant to the physics behavior we see in AMS2. The low downforce cars with clutch diffs fight you on corner entry rotation FAR too much, and when they do rotate, it's like the entire physics behavior of the car changes. Mid corner and apex, acceleration, and braking in AMS2 feels better than any other sim I've ever played. You really can balance the grip front and rear and it's intuitive and makes sense. It behaves like a real car. But for the clutch diff cars reliant on mechanical grip, they just do not turn in, and it's very jarring and immersion breaking the way that they dont turn in. It's almost like front end grip is connected to a timer after you lift off the throttle, even if it's only maintenance throttle. You dont get the clear, immediate analog to the coast ramps that you should. The latency as it switches from power to coast ramps is just off. I think once it actually transitions it's exactly as it should be, and it seems to switch back to the power ramps pretty quickly when you apply power. Again, this may not even be the issue, but it's what it FEELS like the issue is. It doesnt matter how fast you're going or how hard or light you're turning, the car will only turn after you have lifted off the throttle for a certain amount of time. And it ONLY applies to the clutch diff cars, and only those that lack enough aero grip to drive around it.

Is there any chance that RaceDepartment might moderate this thread to prevent and/or remove abusive references to specific people and others? Thank you.

Stephen O'Sullivan said:

Is there any chance that RaceDepartment might moderate this thread to prevent and/or remove abusive references to specific people and others? Thank you.

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You are encouraged to use the Report flag for inappropriate or abusive posts.

dario993 said:

exactly what he said at 23:45 you can translate it:

He said no commercial game or even SIMULATOR that you can HAVE AT HOME and/or pay subscription for it (he mean iRacing for sure) is NOT ON A LEVEL OF REAL RACING, of driving real car as driving in sim on chair in your room is so much different than driving REAL LIFE in a REAL CAR
HE SAID if SIMULATOR could SIMULATE REAL WORLD for 100% we would have DIFFERENT world champions RACERS XDhe said sim racest are SPECIALISTS in them genre they train for so much HOURS DAILY and they are best and he as real racing driver has no chance againts them, and vice versa.
It take differnet character/personality to be sim racer or real racing driver, he said that

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This is just Mr. Kubica's personal take on simracing.
Gregger Huttu was once put in a real Formula spec race car in the US.
He had zero experience, was in a horrible physical shape and started puking due to the G forces and climate change. Prior to this, he had never driven a real car, the guy didn't even have a driving licence.
Within hours, he was faster than some real life racers who'd been driving for years.

As for real drivers going strong in the simracing genre, well, who the hell is Max Verstappen?!

The thing is, many real drivers hate simracing and find it absolutely unnecessary(Kimi R.), while many think of it as a fantastic learning tool - R. Barrichello, Fernando Alonso, and Emanuele Pirro.
It will never be the same as the real deal, hence the phrase "simulation".
But if you were to put Derek Bell in a Porsche 962 in rFactor2 in the best commercial sim rig the money could ever buy, I'm inclined to think he would be blown away by the similarities.