GTR Is Set For A Revival

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GTR Revival.png
For those who have been around sim racing since the early 2000’s, the GTR series of titles are ones which are firmly etched on the brain.

For many, they are the titles that launch them into the world of sim racing in the first place. From GTR and GTR 2 through to GTR Evolution, the titles stood for realism and brought the world of FIA GT racing into our homes.

Join the conversation in the new GTR Revival forum here

For the last several years, there have been rumours, speculation and the occasional screenshot regarding a proposed GTR 3. However, these have been few and far between and have since dwindled into the background once more.

Today, an announcement has appeared which is completely out of the blue. @Ian Bell once head of Slightly Mad Studios and part of the original GTR development team, tweeted the news that he is working on a new title; GTR Revival.

Not only that, there are several other members of the original development team involved too including; Stephen Viljoen, Andy Garton, Stephen Baysted, Henrik Roos, Johan Roos and Vik Klomiets.

As far as the sim itself is concerned, there are no specific details just yet, but Ian Bell has promised that it will be a hardcore, no compromise title.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1572611186130096131

Will this be the GTR sequel that we have all been waiting for? Share your thoughts with us below as we await more information on GTR Revival.

(This is a developing story, more soon)

Updates​

  • RaceDepartment asked Johan Roos (ex-Simbin) for a quote if the above tweet is true and he replied: "Well I do not deny it but cannot comment any further than Ian already has written and that it sounds like one hell of a game by one hell of a crew".
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About author
Phil Rose
Phil Rose
A passionate sim racer with over 20 years of virtual and real world motorsport experience, I am the owner and lead content creator at Sim Racing Bible as well as a writer here at RaceDepartment. I love all forms of motorsport, especially historic motorsport, but when it comes to sim racing, I will drive anything!

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wolftree
gianlucaP said:
Do you realize that this is like asking us to don't attack EA, because they are RD members? That is an impossible request.
You can't expect people here to stay quiet or silent. If he did something wrong in his career, if he pissed off his customers, for whatever reason, these are entitled to criticize his person. Doesn't matter if he's a RD member or not.
For us players and customers, Mr. Bell is a public person, just like Mick Jagger, but older and with no groupies. And being a public person has its cons.
Also, if he goes around half naked at his age, we are entitled to attack him with body shaming too. :roflmao:
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Buying a product once and being disappointed with it doesn't entitle you to a years-long online harassment campaign. Ian Bell has contributed more to sim racing than any of the absolute weirdos who stalk him and fill this forum and many others with utter nonsense.
 
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Y
I hope for a great game. It's going to be a long time in developement and this team is excellent. I will definately be buying it if it is good. I'm just not going to think about it until there is something real.

To say, 'We are going to do this thing you want, enjoy' does not stoke up any gratitude for me, I'm only interested in what someone does, not what they say.
 
L
I wonder if this will be another title released with Ian Bell as a head that then needs a competent dev to step in and release it's true potential.

People can bash Reiza all day for 'recycling' assets from pCars into AMS2 - which in itself is far from the truth - because they were too busy 'studying physics' or whatever it's worded as, when in reality Reiza has spent most of their time fixing the physics simulation within the madness engine.

Tyres were broken, suspension simulation was broken, driveline simulation existed, but was underutilised and broken, same goes for the advanced damage model that exists now in AMS2, it was there, but most of the features were off, programmed incorrectly, or simply broken.

The two biggest complaints when it comes to ME physics - the diff interaction and tyre interaction - were down to errors in the programming. Not errors that were caused by Reiza, but errors that had not been picked up on since late pCars beta builds.

It's important to remember that GTR2 was a joint effort built upon a base laid down by ISI many years before it.

This is Mr Bell's 4th studio now and his 3rd attempt at reinventing the wheel as the best thing since sliced bread since GTR2.

Anyone holding their breath will likely pass out and end up in a world where anything he says comes to true fruition.
 
Pete Conway
Premium
I absolutely agree @wolftree, in the past decade the online disrespect has increased enormously, and if the abusers were to bark face to face with many of their intended victims in a pub they would learn respect very quickly.
there is no excuse for online hate campaigns... if a man's happy with himself, then let him be!
 
D
Loplop509 said:
I wonder if this will be another title released with Ian Bell as a head that then needs a competent dev to step in and release it's true potential.

People can bash Reiza all day for 'recycling' assets from pCars into AMS2 - which in itself is far from the truth - because they were too busy 'studying physics' or whatever it's worded as, when in reality Reiza has spent most of their time fixing the physics simulation within the madness engine.

Tyres were broken, suspension simulation was broken, driveline simulation existed, but was underutilised and broken, same goes for the advanced damage model that exists now in AMS2, it was there, but most of the features were off, programmed incorrectly, or simply broken.

The two biggest complaints when it comes to ME physics - the diff interaction and tyre interaction - were down to errors in the programming. Not errors that were caused by Reiza, but errors that had not been picked up on since late pCars beta builds.

It's important to remember that GTR2 was a joint effort built upon a base laid down by ISI many years before it.

This is Mr Bell's 4th studio now and his 3rd attempt at reinventing the wheel as the best thing since sliced bread since GTR2.

Anyone holding their breath will likely pass out and end up in a world where anything he says comes to true fruition.
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Without bell and sms then no ams2 - don't think reiza are full on programmers as far as I know. And besides, I own ams2 myself and have been generally supportive of them but some of the cars in ams2 just drive bad for me - put some friends on it and it's a big fat no from them. I think it's the same with PC2 as in, some people dislike it and some like the driving style with its (quote you) multiple "broken" stuff yet the same argument could be made by some peope with regards to the "fixes" Reiza have done. Quite frankly, personally, I think PC2 is better overall IMO but do I think the driving in ams2 is broken myself - no - just different but either way none are accurate as in "real" translation to real life so sometimes they compromise (devs) to make stuff work as well as they can in a sim. Do I think ACC is more accurate to real life - no wayyyyyy near - but does it drive good (not a fan myself), well the general concensus seems to be an overwhelming yes by most people.
 
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dwightyone said:
Not beng funny but without bell and sms then no ams2 - don't think reiza are full on programmers as far as I know. And besides, I own ams2 myself and have been generally supportive of them but some of the cars in ams2 just drive bad - put some friends on it and it's a big fat no from them. I think it's the same with PC2 as in some people like its driving style with its so called (quote you) multiple "broken" stuff yet the same argument could be made by some peope with regards to the "fixes" Reiza have done. Quite frankly I think PC2 is better IMO but do I think the driving in ams2 is broken myself - no - just different but either way none are accurate as in "real" real life so sometimes you compromise to make stuff work as well as you can in a sim. Do I yhink ACC is more accurate to real life - no wayyyyyy near - but does it drive good (not a fan myself), well the general concensus seems to be an overwhelming yes by most people.
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I doubt that, Reiza would've likely just ended up developing AMS2 either as a further refinement of AMS, or eventually come to an agreement with S397/MSG to utilise the rF2 engine like was originally intended.

Yes, physics are broadly subjective and down to taste, but when you've got programmers looking at code and there are notes saying that 'this does this', but it fails to, because elsewhere there are lines missing, or spelt, or simply not referenced properly, incorrectly causing the dependencies on them to fail, then that is by very definition, broken.

Madness Engine games drive the way they do because there's a lot of this in there, where things are meant to be simulated, causing things to feel/interact/react a certain way, but parts of that simulation are broken because of errors in their dependencies, causing numerous workarounds to be put in place.

Reiza need to completely overhaul their default setups, as a lot of the cars that drive 'bad' only do so because the default setups are awful, the Formula Vintage cars being the biggest example I can think of off the top of my head - soften it by about 45/50% all round and they become a much more predictable, playful machine.

That's completely besides the point that there was stuff in there that they simply forgot to turn on, that they then reference in other places, that Ian would shout out about from the rooftops about how good their simulation is, despite the fact that it's not actually working in pCars 1 or 2.

I commented what I did for two reasons - to defend the completely needless Reiza bashing, which is absurd considering that they've frankly picked up the mess of the ME and fixed a lot of the broken features and to point out that the last time Ian Bell was a studio head, a lot of promises were made that then never came to fruition.
 
D
Loplop509 said:
I doubt that, Reiza would've likely just ended up developing AMS2 either as a further refinement of AMS, or eventually come to an agreement with S397/MSG to utilise the rF2 engine like was originally intended.

Yes, physics are broadly subjective and down to taste, but when you've got programmers looking at code and there are notes saying that 'this does this', but it fails to, because elsewhere there are lines missing, or spelt, or simply not referenced properly, incorrectly causing the dependencies on them to fail, then that is by very definition, broken.

Madness Engine games drive the way they do because there's a lot of this in there, where things are meant to be simulated, causing things to feel/interact/react a certain way, but parts of that simulation are broken because of errors in their dependencies, causing numerous workarounds to be put in place.

Reiza need to completely overhaul their default setups, as a lot of the cars that drive 'bad' only do so because the default setups are awful, the Formula Vintage cars being the biggest example I can think of off the top of my head - soften it by about 45/50% all round and they become a much more predictable, playful machine.

That's completely besides the point that there was stuff in there that they simply forgot to turn on, that they then reference in other places, that Ian would shout out about from the rooftops about how good their simulation is, despite the fact that it's not actually working in pCars 1 or 2.

I commented what I did for two reasons - to defend the completely needless Reiza bashing, which is absurd considering that they've frankly picked up the mess of the ME and fixed a lot of the broken features and to point out that the last time Ian Bell was a studio head, a lot of promises were made that then never came to fruition.
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Im a big fan of AMS1 - big fan. Not sure they couldv'e pushed that version of the isi engine any further but tbh I don't know for sure, I wish they could and did. Reiza could've put VR into AMS1 but didn't have the technical know how to do something that modders such as Crew Chief did. I think there was no other option for them but the madness engine, which bell and his crew were very helpful with in helping reiza get starting with it. As far as im aware sms even did a deal ££££ to help them on their way by not overpricing them. No way S397 and its over-arching company were going to share engine with Reiza at good pricing like SMS did- would be a direct needless competitor.

Without SMS and Bell, Reiza may have still been working with AMS1 - mm... change of heart, I now hate Bell as much the next man. :D
 
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Loplop509 said:
People can bash Reiza all day for 'recycling' assets from pCars into AMS2 - which in itself is far from the truth - because they were too busy 'studying physics' or whatever it's worded as, when in reality Reiza has spent most of their time fixing the physics simulation within the madness engine.

Tyres were broken, suspension simulation was broken, driveline simulation existed, but was underutilised and broken, same goes for the advanced damage model that exists now in AMS2, it was there, but most of the features were off, programmed incorrectly, or simply broken.

The two biggest complaints when it comes to ME physics - the diff interaction and tyre interaction - were down to errors in the programming. Not errors that were caused by Reiza, but errors that had not been picked up on since late pCars beta builds.
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Got any source for these claims?
 
D
Ole Marius Myrvold said:
Reiza made content for rF2 before deciding to go with the mad-engine. So AMS2 would've happened on a different engine.
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I'm not sure about that. Sellings mod cars on a different platform is one thing but another to share the platform itself. When it came push to shove it didn't happen and I suspect that was of S397's choosing. Of course I don't know for sure, but what is said in public and then in the boardroom are two different things much of the time.
 
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Majuh said:
Got any source for these claims?
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I'm not sure if they've publically stated against their various dev-blogs, it could be seen as in poor taste to point such things out when you've got/had a good relationship with the people that developed the engine you're using.

But there has been plenty of it said by devs cordially on forum posts and discord chats.

I'd guess if I was to start looking for an 'official' or 'more accountable' source, I'd go towards anything they've posted in regards to tyre sidewall simulation.

Cracking the code on that - why the simulation wasn't doing what it was supposed to despite everything surrounding it being up to snuff - was one of their biggest battles in getting AMS2 to drive the way it does today.

The SETA is one of, if not the most advanced tyre models in sim racing to this day, but for years it was completely hampered by the fact their sidewall construction modelling wasn't doing what they intended - and developed the rest of the tyre model around - for it to do.
 
Andy Kettler
Enagee said:
Truth is humans will fall for the same trick again and again....
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What trick ? I think he released very solid and good games. The problems are the sky high sim elitist expectations that no sim ever can fulfill.

I'm always interested in new race games/sims so let's wait and see what he comes up with :)
 
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P
Premium
Wow. I love all this talk about every game or sim being broken.
I see it a little simpler, perhaps cos I'm simple ?
I've enjoyed Sim/Simcade/Arcade games since 1998. I've really enjoyed most of them. Some more than others, but they are only games and some suit each individual and some don't. I've got my favourites like GPL,GTL,GTR2 etc. I'm actually hoping something may come of this along the lines a Retro open wheel, GT, BTCC kind of thing. Only thing I have big agreement with is I don't think we need anymore GT3 cars.

And remember, Microsoft surely has some good programmers, coders and software guys... we are on Windows 11 now. And that's still broken.
 
SvenUilhoorn
Paul_V said:
And remember, Microsoft surely has some good programmers, coders and software guys... we are on Windows 11 now. And that's still broken.
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You've just compared developing a niche (aspiring) sim racing title to an entire globally used legacy operating system.

I'll let that sink in for a moment :)
 
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FernandoAFM
Trebor901 said:
In all seriousness what exactly is he gonna base his game on? WEC licence is elsewhere as is the gt3 licence and we don't need another gt game when the market is saturated with gt3 content.

Although wouldn't listen to a word that prat says tbh
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This. GTR2 was my favorite game ever, but part of that was because I loved the GT1 and NGT cars. I’m not sure that GTR3 with GT3 cars is the game I was dreaming about all these years. I still think reviving GTL would have been a better choice, but willing to give this a chance.
 
Travis
Looking forward to seeking how this GTR project progresses. Many good people appear to be attached to it.

The last GTR project appeared to have many months of work done prior to the project being killed off. Shame it's taking so long for R3E to move to UE as planned once GTR3 shipped.
 
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