Do we need better graphics?

gt7.jpg
With Gran Turismo 7 right around the corner and the next iteration of Forza Motorsport due later this year, it’s about time we talked about graphics - eye candy.

Whilst neither of these franchises are sims, both have shown they can push their respective hardware to the limits. For instance, Forza Motorsport 7 ran at 4k 60fps (albeit with clever supersampling) on a Xbox One X, which dragged along it’s ancient CPU from 2013!

The PlayStation 5 will allow users to play GT7 in 4K at 60fps on launch, and it’s not too far fetched to expect 120fps in the future. The PlayStation 5 can output 4K up to 120 fps, but that doesn’t mean that the frame rate can be maintained and Polyphony have not released anything official about increasing the frame rate of GT7 in the future.

Whilst we don’t know the specification of Forza Motorsport 8 yet, we should expect it to be comparable to GT7 in terms of graphics and frame rates.

Here’s an official video from Sony, showcasing the Daytona International Speedway


This is without doubt the best looking version of Daytona I have ever seen in a racing game. The level of detail of the stands, the surrounding area of the track, the lighting, detail of cars, and even the level of detail of the driver’s gloves are incredible.

With all of the above taken into account, should we expect more from sims?

AMS2 is the best looking sim to be had right now and it’s rendition of Daytona does not stand up to GT7. Yes Daytona looks awesome in AMS2, but the sheer amount of detail in GT7 is startling.

Apart from ACC with all the graphic settings turned up (if you have some kind of supercomputer) and Assetto Corsa with an insane amount of mods, all other sims look at least a generation old. To be fair, most are at least a generation behind in graphic fidelity.

Many will argue that there’s far more going on in a sim, more complex physics, tyre modelling, and so much much more. And those of you who make that argument are right, there is a lot more going on within these sims, but does that mean we should compromise on the aspects of these sims?

So whilst there is the argument that sims have so much more going on than graphics, most of the major sims are using technology that is 14 years old (DirectX11).

Unfortunately, money talks. iRacing is the most played sim, you know there’s always players online and grids usually fill up at most times of the day. On any usual day there are around 10k players online at any time.

iRacing has one tenth the number of GT Sport players on a daily basis. In February 2021, Polyphony Digital celebrated 9.5 million players. With this amount of revenue and the backing of Sony, they are able to employ larger development teams and extract every last ounce of performance out of a PlayStation.

With that all being said, should we expect better graphics in our favorite sims? Or are graphics lower down on the demands you want from a sim?
About author
Damian Reed
PC geek, gamer, content creator, and passionate sim racer.
I live life a 1/4 mile at a time, it takes me ages to get anywhere!

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Curious - which of the current titles fit these criteria for you now? I'm guessing AMS2 must be one. AC with all the mods?

I must admit its none, but AC comes the most near, except the clumsy implementation of GUI in VR and the bad graphics in VR. Even the hallelujah 5star tracks in AC do contain lots of immersion breakers like fuzzy environments, 2D objects, shimmering, limited depth view, low poly models, etc etc. Think thats the whole point for VR users, because these users are so limited in comparison to the huge amount of gamers using flat monitor. So the scope for game studios (and modders) is focused on monitor mainly, with VR as a nice sideline.
 
No, especially when GPU prices are this high. More efficient graphics? Hell yeah! But to me, even Richard Burns Rally is quite fine...
You need great graphics for proper VR where you're not going to get a headache. So far there is no such headset, so I don't care about the graphics.
 
Tl;dr - Imo, No. We don't need better graphics. ACC bottlenecked on my 4GB VRAM GPU even on the lowest settings. RF2 and iRacing already set a great balance of performance and graphics without mods. Focus more on creating good looking, optimized laser-scanned tracks, and great cars with great physics.
I feel like this is often an argument of people on older GPUs,
better graphics doesn't necessarily mean worse physics or gameplay

especially in something like Flight Simulators, that's where I heard this more and more,

and the thing is, while FSX look quite bad, it would still only do about 15-20 fps on my machine, becasue of the old code that isn't taking advantage of new GPU/CPU

MSFS2020 on the other hand looks absolutely fabuluos, and I can get up to 40-50fps at times , so in a way ways, more optimized games, but that also go hand in hand with better looking graphics in a way
 
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Tbh graphics aren't really that important. I was playing gtr2 and nr2003 a few days ago and honestly, I enjoyed those sims more than rf2 and even acc(which is amazing).Also in this era when gpu prices are sky high, older graphics or less gpu/cpu intensive art styles will make the games more accessible. The other thing is graphics not always equal to immersion. I can run acc on my PC pretty well but I get stutters once I go above 27 AI cars. I played gtr2 and race with a full 60 grid car around spa and it felt truly more immersive. Gameplay > Graphics
 
As far as GT7 and the next Motorsport goes: I expect Motorsport to actually look really 'next gen' and that due to the simple fact that it is developed only with the current consoles (and PC) in mind whereas GT Sport is despite its clean visuals still a 'PS4-Title' at heart. I would go even as far to say that they probably intended to release it on PS4 at the end of its life cycle very much like they have done with GT6 in 2013 for PS3, but PD being PD delays were inevitable and now they market it as a PS5 'next gen' thing. Fair enough i guess.
But if you compare latest Willow Springs footage and put it next to GT Sport its literally every trackside bush identical, except lighting and res nothing is different.
In fact as far as the GT7 tracks go, i feel its kind of a low effort. Most tracks are the GT Sport tracks ported over. You'd think they would put more effort in new tracks at release than in the GT Café.

As far as the sims go: I really dont think AMS2 is the better looking game when compared to ACC. The image is cleaner yes, but i feel like in terms of lighting, track geometry, vegetation, car models ACC looks better. But sure, its maybe just a matter of taste i guess, and i have been 'bothered' with the slightly mad engine since i backed PCars 1 back in the day and both their games left me underwhelmed, so i think i might be traumatized by that engine.
 
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I rate graphics as the impression I get from the whole image. With UE4 it even matters a lot if the image is in movement or stationary.

As much as it hurts, having the highest polygon models, most detailed assets is not enough when you cannot ensure a clean image where those details show.

There are many sims that have "outdated" graphics engines, however there are content for them that look absolutely great. And there are many sims that have up to date graphics engines and produce a blurry mess of an image, unless supersampled until your GPU screams.

A well detailed, well textured track even with well positioned and rotated 2D trees can look almost just as good as the most detailed content out there, if great attention to detail is given.

To dip a bit more into specifics, I have lots of trouble setting ACC up to be "clean", not blurry in movement. Yes the screenshots can be wonderful, but without FSR and a lot of supersampling it just doesn't look that good (where your GPU becomes the limit, good luck in the current market), despite technically having state of the art detailed assets. An interesting comparison would be PC2 vs AMS2. While in PC2 unless I supersample to 1440p (on a 1080p monitor) I just cannot stand the overall image with a lot of jagged edges, the design philosophy of AMS2 gives a clear image with stock AA and stock resolution, while having less detailed assets on paper in the same engine.

So yes, I want better graphics, but only if clarity and performance isn't sacrificed. And I am really curious how GT7 will look and run on my PS4 Slim, if it's not degraded from GT Sport it's going to be so great.
 
Better graphics shows technical progression, and hopefully technologies which are used innovativly in more mainstream titles will filter down into sims.
 
Really of topic, sorry, but is Automobilista 2 right now, also the winner in graphics when it becomes to VR. If being compared RRoom/AC/ACC and Rfc2.

Edit: remark the STEAM demo mode can not handle VR mode and seems to be an old v1.0, so I can not compare.
 
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Why does ACC require so much to run in comparison to other sims? Can't the developer do a better job to lower what it takes to run the graphics? Other sims have a good balance, surely it can be done for ACC so you don't need a super computer to run the game properly.
 
Yes yes and yes, push the envelope Max, Max, Max. Better graphics, better physic's, go technology go. Push, Push, push. Would not be here today, if not for the fanatics that want more.
 
Premium
Do we need higher framerates? YES
Actually… probably not. MANY years ago, I wrote a college paper on experiments conducted by Douglas Trumbull, the special effects guru for the original Star Wars movie. He was working with 70mm motion picture film at various frame rates, and his conclusion was that higher frame rates (the motion picture film standardwas 24fps) produced a greater illusion of 3-dimensionality and immersion. However, above 60fps, the improvement in those perceptions dropped off. As the cost of 70mm film stock could become exorbitant when shooting at high frame rates, his conclusion was that it was unnecessary to go higher than 60fps. So, while you may be able tell the difference between 60 and 120, it may not really be much of a difference at all. And if we think that doubling it again to 240fps would make it twice as good, it simply won’t. Once you’ve attained 60fps at 4K, anything beyond that will yield diminishing returns.
 
To dip a bit more into specifics, I have lots of trouble setting ACC up to be "clean", not blurry in movement.
I fixed this quite a lot by simply locking view to horizon under the movement view settings so i dont wobble around with the whole car, so my view is now so to speak like it would be if your eyes would correct the cars small movements. It makes the whole image much cleaner in motion.
The rest i adjusted then via the other controls, like pitch, distance etc to not look up into the sky so to speak.
 
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For me immersion is supreme and great graphics are key to that.
‘However, great graphics alone cannot carry a game. The other aspects (physics, sounds, performance, FFB…) also need to be developed to make a great game and all contribute to immersion.
a great game is one that strives to excel in all the above without noticeable compromises.
‘For me it is not either… or but both… and
 
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Personally I don't need better graphics than this. Sony/Polyphony Digital can now re-direct their huge resources into finally getting proper car sounds in their games :)
 
People going deep into explanations on how graphics aren’t their priority, but that isn’t the question the thread posed. The question is: do we need better graphics? And the simple answer is YES!

What that will cost in performance or are graphics more important than improving physics are different questions.

We should absolutely tell devs we expect a graphics AND physics evolution regularly. We pay good amounts of money for our sims, and that money can be used to improve the product as a whole, not just one part of it.

It’s time we stop assuming that hard core sims can’t have eyecandy, especially with the amazing computing power we have nowadays.
 
I love reading comments, "no we don't need better graphics" , "today's sims already max out my aging PC", "I prefer physics improvements over graphics" and more.
Who ever said graphic improvements would come at the cost of stopping physics advances or you will never be able to use higher settings once you finally upgrade your PC? Move with the times folks, simulations are to simulate real life, real life doesn't look like flat textures and bad lighting.
Yes we need better graphics but also better physics and better Ai.
 
I love reading comments, "no we don't need better graphics" , "today's sims already max out my aging PC", "I prefer physics improvements over graphics" and more.
Who ever said graphic improvements would come at the cost of stopping physics advances or you will never be able to use higher settings once you finally upgrade your PC? Move with the times folks, simulations are to simulate real life, real life doesn't look like flat textures and bad lighting.
Yes we need better graphics but also better physics and better Ai.
Yes: "no we don't need better graphics"
Not my case: "today's sims already max out my aging PC"
Yes: "I prefer physics improvements over graphics"

Do you like to buy because they look good? Good for you... I have not seen any big improvement in the last 3 or 4 years, many games look the same.

I'm looking for the perfect game, the perfect simulator which doesn't have bugs, incomplete modes and without dlc or licenses who make me feel like a cash cow.
 
I love reading comments, "no we don't need better graphics" , "today's sims already max out my aging PC", "I prefer physics improvements over graphics" and more.
Who ever said graphic improvements would come at the cost of stopping physics advances or you will never be able to use higher settings once you finally upgrade your PC? Move with the times folks, simulations are to simulate real life, real life doesn't look like flat textures and bad lighting.
Yes we need better graphics but also better physics and better Ai.
I should have mentioned audio....man does that make a difference, driving a car in AC that has modded audio then drive the same car in AMS2, even though AMS2 may look better (tracks more alive) I just get held in AC because the car sounds keel me immersed.
 

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