2021 Formula One Belgian Grand Prix

How about building next f1 track In the cave so its not raining? Masi get Lost!

davehenrie said:

During his podium interview, Lewis stated: he hoped the fans get refunds. I would think the drivers could chip in a teeny tiny portion of their salaries and cover the cost of refunding the entire audience. After all, it was in the name of driver safety that they did not race.

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Masi can pay the costs

Driver of the day: Nikita Mazepin for fastest lap!

"Asked if there were any plans to compensate the fans who spent hours in the rain without seeing any F1 racing, Domenicali added: "We do care about our fans and this is very important. This is something we will discuss accordingly with the organisers. Fans are a priority and these fans showed that Formula 1 is very important. We will take care about this.""

For anyone that ever attended an F1 Grand Prix it's pretty obvious that they couldn't give a flying f*ck about the fans.

I went to the WEC at Silverstone in 2018 and that was all about the fans, you could go into the Paddock and view the pit boxes from the rear and see drivers like Alonso and Button. There was regular events where you could meet drivers and gets their signatures. There was things like dodgems, rides, all sorts of stuff to do for familes and it was all free, and the trades stands were all reasonably priced. It was an absolutely brilliant experience!

Compare this to F1, nothing is free, it's all about making money. Caps alone are £40+, and you are looking at even more ridiculous prices for Shirts & Jackets. You can't get anywhere near the Paddock unless you're hospitality. Fast track is used to fleece fans out of even more money. Everything is there to make the fan part with their money.

The only fans F1 cares about are the corporate ones and those paying ridiculous sums for hospitality.

Definitely one of the best rain drivers ever (see silverstone 2008), and the comments in that video speak for themselves.
Some others were saying "may as well drive with eyes shut".
I'll take their word for it over the internet opinions

It would be quite annoying to pay £100s for that excuse for a race, and judging by those comments there will be a lot of pressure on FIA to recompense fans.

Kingkoenig said:

Or maybe they remembered the 2014 Japanese GP, held in similar conditions, and what happened to Jules Bianchi.

I too think it was too dangerous to race in weather like that. The fact that it was done in the past doesn't justify doing it now. There was a time when races were held at tracks without guard rails, without fences, with trees right next to the track, etc. Then, people realized it wasn't a very good idea to do so. I think we've now realized that it's not a good idea to race in all kinds of weather.

And it's not sacrificing the fabric of the sport. Last time I checked, the fabric of the sport is not injuring or killing drivers.

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It's a pretty commonly known fact that Bianchi died due to an error of his own. Being too fast under double yellow and trying to gain an advantage while marshalls are on track is not just stupid it shows that it can have severe consequences. This has nothing to do with rain or not. And the Formula W crash shows similar issues. Between the first and the last cars hitting the barrier are around 7 seconds. What do we do if we see an accident infront of us? Yep, modern racing drivers keep the throttle planted. Zero respect, just reckless behaviour. Thatswhy you see Hamilton shunting off Max with basicly zero consequences.

Then we have the fact that the meassurements on the tracks are most of the time leading to the opposite results. Spa has seen such severe accidents in the last couple of years due to the fact that the whole track is a parking lot nowadays with paved runoff areas, wich leads to cars bouncing back on track and not slowing down enough. It's been talked about for ages, that gravel traps need to be implemented again. There is allways the argument that cars have become faster, but that's not really the truth. F1 cars and Group C cars of the late 80s and early 90s had tremendous cornering speeds aswell and you could take Eau Rouge flat aswell. During the broadcast yesterday on the German Sky television Ralf Schumacher talked about future concepts. Do you know what they have as a concept for Eau Rouge? Making it straight. Vettel said pretty clear what needs to be done and they come up with such a fantastic idea.

Anyway, Norris loosing the car was unfortunate, but people should stop playing the "oh my gaw, he could have been killed card". He was simply too fast for the conditions and even McLaren admitted this. He played a risky game and payed for it. That's racing. F1 also needs to get rid of this zero risk politic. People are acting as if F1 drivers are getting killed every race.

Eau Rouge isn't that dangerous for cars since they changed it after Bellof's accident. The W series pileup looks like an extraordinary event with 6 cars spinning at the same place; if it is due to a nasty bump, they should fix it. In an interview Ricciardo said pushing back the walls at the exit by a few meters should solve the drivers' concerns.

The top of the Raidillon is another story. A nightmare scenario like the one that killed Hubert repeated in GT3, so it is something serious. The walls are already very far, so I don't know what they could do more. Drivers don't lift up anymore even in hazardous conditions and that is an additional factor that complicate things with safety.

In my opinion (which is one of many) there are lessons to be remembered from Formula 1's 1976 season.

At the German Grand Prix, hosted at the Nurburgring, Niki Lauda (and several other drivers) found the conditions of the track appalling, regarding safety standards. Among others: marshall posts too far from each other, not enough fire extinguishers, degraded tarmac at some sections of the track, seldom or no run-off areas. On top of that, the incoming rain that made the hilly circuit the more true to its nickname: "The Green Hell". So, Lauda suggested to take a vote between the drivers (the ones taking the risk) to let the race take place or not. The race went ahead by just one vote. We all know what happened to Niki, but he did follow his fellow drivers, against the odds and even his personal opinion. A man of his word.

At the Japanese Grand Prix, hosted at Fuji, the weather conditions were even worse than at the Nurburgring. The majority of the drivers were not keen to race under such conditions. However, being this the first televised race, with TV-rights money and reputations at stake, the powers-that-be forced the race to take place. Several drivers agreed to drive for just a few laps (for the form) only to retire early on safety reasons. Some (like James Hunt) were coerced to complete the race under threat from their own teams.

Now, before you jump the lights on me, these are the words of Emerson Fittipaldi, an F1 World Champion who experienced this first hand. This was one of the most dangerous periods of the sport. Niki and Emerson are drivers to whose experience I would listen to regarding racing in dire wet conditions, back then and now as well.

https://www.mclaren.com/racing/blog/emerson-fittipaldi/the-story-of-fuji-1976/

What I take out from that season is that, whenever it comes to racing in dire weather/track conditions, the FIA should let the drivers decide amongst themselves (either by anonymous voting or a private driver's meeting) whether the race should take place or not. Because they are the ones taking the risk, and can best evaluate if the track is suitable to take such risk. No form of Motorsports can be made pefectly safe. But those taking the risks should be the ones to have the final word.

My 2 cents.

skippy1471 said:

"Asked if there were any plans to compensate the fans who spent hours in the rain without seeing any F1 racing, Domenicali added: "We do care about our fans and this is very important. This is something we will discuss accordingly with the organisers. Fans are a priority and these fans showed that Formula 1 is very important. We will take care about this.""

For anyone that ever attended an F1 Grand Prix it's pretty obvious that they couldn't give a flying f*ck about the fans.

I went to the WEC at Silverstone in 2018 and that was all about the fans, you could go into the Paddock and view the pit boxes from the rear and see drivers like Alonso and Button. There was regular events where you could meet drivers and gets their signatures. There was things like dodgems, rides, all sorts of stuff to do for familes and it was all free, and the trades stands were all reasonably priced. It was an absolutely brilliant experience!

Compare this to F1, nothing is free, it's all about making money. Caps alone are £40+, and you are looking at even more ridiculous prices for Shirts & Jackets. You can't get anywhere near the Paddock unless you're hospitality. Fast track is used to fleece fans out of even more money. Everything is there to make the fan part with their money.

The only fans F1 cares about are the corporate ones and those paying ridiculous sums for hospitality.

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That’s the reason why I haven’t attended a F1 race since 2006. My 3 day tickets at the Senna corner at Circuit Gilles-Villeneuve used to cost 200$, now it’s around 450$. And as you wrote, everything is overpriced: food, caps, clothing, etc. After attending the race for many years, I stopped after 2006 and never went back.

skippy1471 said:

"Asked if there were any plans to compensate the fans who spent hours in the rain without seeing any F1 racing, Domenicali added: "We do care about our fans and this is very important. This is something we will discuss accordingly with the organisers. Fans are a priority and these fans showed that Formula 1 is very important. We will take care about this.""

For anyone that ever attended an F1 Grand Prix it's pretty obvious that they couldn't give a flying f*ck about the fans.

I went to the WEC at Silverstone in 2018 and that was all about the fans, you could go into the Paddock and view the pit boxes from the rear and see drivers like Alonso and Button. There was regular events where you could meet drivers and gets their signatures. There was things like dodgems, rides, all sorts of stuff to do for familes and it was all free, and the trades stands were all reasonably priced. It was an absolutely brilliant experience!

Compare this to F1, nothing is free, it's all about making money. Caps alone are £40+, and you are looking at even more ridiculous prices for Shirts & Jackets. You can't get anywhere near the Paddock unless you're hospitality. Fast track is used to fleece fans out of even more money. Everything is there to make the fan part with their money.

The only fans F1 cares about are the corporate ones and those paying ridiculous sums for hospitality.

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IMSA also gets this right. You can just walk through the paddock and you can get up close to the cars before the race as they're all lined up. You may even get to spot a driver. I realize that F1 does what they do because they can and they won't change it unless people stop coming to the races.

Richard Wilks said:

The strawman is amazing in that one, talk about taking a quote out of it's context.

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I'm fairly certain I quoted your entire post, so that is the context.

Kingkoenig said:

That’s the reason why I haven’t attended a F1 race since 2006. My 3 day tickets at the Senna corner at Circuit Gilles-Villeneuve used to cost 200$, now it’s around 450$. And as you wrote, everything is overpriced: food, caps, clothing, etc. After attending the race for many years, I stopped after 2006 and never went back.

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That's also the last F1 race I attended after 5 years of going every year with a few Indianapolis races (which were actually cheaper). The whole weekend cost more than a week in Europe! The only bonus was getting to meet Jaques Villeneuve at his overpriced night club. I'll stick to my local track @ Mosport when they host IMSA again.

Scottt said:

I'm fairly certain I quoted your entire post, so that is the context.

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No, the context was the whole post exchange before that. So you better read all those and understand the point i was making.

Kingkoenig said:

We're not done racing in the wet, just done racing in extreme conditions like today.

How do they decide when to race or not? Did you watch the safety car before the race? That's how they decide. That and drivers input.

At some point, enough is enough. If drivers say it's too dangerous to drive, that's enough for me. I'm not the one in the car who's risking his life.

(By the way, Donington 1993 was nowhere near as bad as this morning.)

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Some drivers were saying it was fine to race. Some drivers even said it was fine to race at the scheduled start time. Dont make it sound like if they were all against it.

I'd like to see how many of those who say that safety comes first are in favor of banning Formula 1 Grand Prix on street circuits; radically change corners like Eau Rouge to make it like any other corner of the Sochi circuit, as well as to prohibit wet sessions of any kind. Everything should be brought in at once gradually, while combustion engines will gradually disappear from 2035.

Future generations would enjoy these types of races just as well since they would be the only ones they would know first-hand (just like many of you loves this current F1 and have no idea of how amazing was F1 in the 70s and 80s).

To me, security is used as an excuse to hide the ridicule and the shamelessness. I'm sorry to say it like that, but it seems as hypocritical to me as the WeRaceAsOne campaign. Security is the burning nail of the FIA and of the blindest fans. The FIA has screwed up in a beastly way. The ridicule of Spa (which surpasses Indianapolis 2005) does not end there: it turns out that only one lap has been registered and according to the Sporting Regulations no one should be awarded points. Even podiums and fastest laps could not count. Fans have realized this and the FIA drains the bag and ignores complying with its regulations because that forces them to return the money to the fans, to see them with the sponsors, and talk with the organizers and the canon (millions of $). Money was the real reason behind doing the two laps and then retire; there has been officially a race, and security is the objective reason, no matter how disastrous has been the decisions taken by Michael Masi. Money has spoken for the fans: F1 has bet that fans swallow everything. They were right.

Having canceled the race at three o'clock it would have been much more dignified. In F1 there is plenty of technology to predict the weather in a few hours. Commenters have been saying all along that it wasn't going to stop raining.

The greatest victory that Formula 1 has achieved in this Belgian Grand Prix has been given to them by the blindest and staunch fans, who with admirable ability to suck in whatever it takes, even at the cost of being teased and disrespected, they defend the picaresque that the FIA has had against them with the excuse of security to hide the chiaroscuro of the terrible management. Even these same fans being aware that the FIA has really done what they want in their favor and against themselves, even breaking their own regulations.

These same fans make being a Formula 1 fan feel pejorative, at least I feel that way. I fear that the inconsistency with the regulations means that Formula 1 does not respect itself and becomes a recurring joke, in contrast to the prestige it represents as an international sport. With a Formula 1 that puts all the meat on the grill to attract young people to make them fond of the category for many years, I can imagine that certain influencers and partners of the same age contribute with false neutrality ─ remember that there is actually collaboration indirect─ that a considerable mass of fans is willing to feed, tolerate, and continue to swallow with the nonsense of the FIA.

As a former fan, I know that for F1 everything is money. To F1, the fans only count for that. And if you subtract them (for example, uploading videos using their own content on today's race), they will go for you (FOM). We are volunteers to enjoy that show and the way they do things or move on to something else. In 2019 I chose to move on to something else (doing scooting and enjoying nature). The decisions of the FIA with its competition are perhaps the main cause that F1 has lost a third of its spectators since 2008.

Really sad day for Formula One indeed.

Not a good weekend for F1 for a number of reasons, and I hope the fans are offered some kind of reimbursement, but to award points after two laps behind the safety car is absurd and an insult to the competition.
I understand points = many, many coins and Williams needs all the help they can get but spraying champaigne on the podium was a slap in the face of F1 fans.
George Russell will have many podiums in his future, but I'm not sure he will look back fondly at his first.

This was not some race in the crazy unsafe times of yesteryear. This picture is from imola 2021. How is this any different from yesterday?

Richard Wilks said:

Some drivers were saying it was fine to race. Some drivers even said it was fine to race at the scheduled start time. Dont make it sound like if they were all against it.

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The only driver I heard saying that was Verstappen, who was in first place. I haven't seen or heard any other driver saying it was ok to race, but maybe I didn't look hard enough...

Richard Wilks said:

Some drivers were saying it was fine to race. Some drivers even said it was fine to race at the scheduled start time. Dont make it sound like if they were all against it.

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Wow, really!! 1 for, 19 against. pretty conclusive I thought and not open to personal interpretation or spin (pardon the pun).

They need to run a sim race (and I mean sim not CM) and award half points.