PC2 The Project CARS Survey: Have Your Say!

[Paul Jeffrey]

Project CARS developers Slightly Mad Studios have launched a sizable survey aimed at gathering opinions about their current title and its in development sequel, Project CARS 2, allowing everyone to voice their opinion on the direction the franchise should take.

The survey is open to anyone who wishes to partake regardless of WMD membership status.

Although a smash hit in the sales charts, PCARS received quite a bit of bad press upon it's release from the sim racing community, and deservedly so, with many feeling a title that had been in development for such a long time shouldn't have been launched with such a sizable number of glitches, bugs and an all round unpolished feel that the title had on initial release.

It appears that the World of Mass Development community driven project is looking to learn from past mistakes and is opening up to a wider audience with this survey.

How do you feel PCARS should develop the game (and sequel) going forward? Leave your comments in the section below!

 

[EpilepticToast]

As long as you put in the suggested general FFB settings (except tire force and FFB strength), you can really do your own thing with the individual car setups to get it to feel how you want. I prefer weaker FFB to the majority of what people suggest so I tinkered with it in the tuning setups of my favourite cars until it felt how I wanted, didn't take long to find my base numbers (nothing close to jack spade's) and I still use them for most cars today. Too many just label this game "stupid" or "unrealistic" because they don't even try to understand the FFB settings. It's just sad if that's what some people are negatively judging PCars on. FFB is a personal factor, so there's gonna be all the possible settings to make it feel how you'd want. That's what you expect from a proper sim after all!

 

[jimortality]

As long as you put in the suggested general FFB settings (except tire force and FFB strength), you can really do your own thing with the individual car setups to get it to feel how you want. I prefer weaker FFB to the majority of what people suggest so I tinkered with it in the tuning setups of my favourite cars until it felt how I wanted, didn't take long to find my base numbers (nothing close to jack spade's) and I still use them for most cars today. Too many just label this game "stupid" or "unrealistic" because they don't even try to understand the FFB settings. It's just sad if that's what some people are negatively judging PCars on. FFB is a personal factor, so there's gonna be all the possible settings to make it feel how you'd want. That's what you expect from a proper sim after all!

Try to understand the ffb are you flippin kidding me! People have spent hours and hours trying to understand the ffb but when you spend more time tweaking than driving then I'm sorry but it becomes a chore.

 

[EpilepticToast]

It only takes hours if you tweak including the general FFB, when that is set as per recommended, you only need to find your preferred level of FFB strength and tire force, then go into free practice and start a session with any car. Then you tune the precise car specific FFB, which really doesn't take long at all. pick a track with short pit lane and you can easily go out and back to pits if not feeling right, it certainly doesn't take up half of your time playing as you only have to figure it out once and apply to all (most) cars from there on. I was confused at the start too, but it all makes sense by feel what each value changes in the FFB after some time playing. Yes Pcars requires commitment, patience, and time to get set up, but once you figure it out it is fantastic and feels just perfect. The FFB feel makes the physics come alive so it's vital to get it just how you like based on previous sim racing FFB you've experienced. It's a shame the default FFB is so damn bad. that's what I feel so many, especially on here, stem their misguided hate for the game from.

 

[Boby Kim]

For comparison:
rF2 an Pcars: both fresh install. I'm racing rF2 within ten minutes (also time to drink coffee) with good solid super sharp FFB. Pcars however takes me about thirty minutes tweaking and teeth grinding. Then I quit Pcars and start enjoy racing in rF2. I buy games to play them, not to figure out millions of configuration setting possibilities.

 

[TzZyO]

As I said, Mz is just outright wrong regardless of the FFB strength. Try to dial everything else down except Mz, set it to something more appropriate than 100% and you'll see it's just weird. Sometimes it even feels like it's inverted. But it's not. It's just weird. And possibly lags behind whatever happens on the screen a little too much.
Sure, rF2 sometimes can induce a lot of "what the..?" moments while departing from the edge of grip (and the edge itself feels rather "mushy"), but at least when it comes to the FFB, you don't have to "understand" it. It just comes on its own, naturally.
While in the other sims you first learn about advanced techniques and then find the appropriate entry parameters to employ them, in rF2 you just learn from the freaking sim itself. Now that's a good FFB. And judging by the development rate, it's quite safe to assume that ISI will eventually address the grip too (at least now it's much better than it was a year or two ago).

@EpilepticToast, what wheel do you use?

 

[EpilepticToast]

As I said, Mz is just outright wrong regardless of the FFB strength. Try to dial everything else down except Mz, set it to something more appropriate than 100% and you'll see it's just weird. Sometimes it even feels like it's inverted. But it's not. It's just weird. And possibly lags behind whatever happens on the screen a little too much.
Sure, rF2 sometimes can induce a lot of "what the..?" moments while departing from the edge of grip (and the edge itself feels rather "mushy"), but at least when it comes to the FFB, you don't have to "understand" it. It just comes on its own, naturally.
While in the other sims you first learn about advanced techniques and then find the appropriate entry parameters to employ them, in rF2 you just learn from the freaking sim itself. Now that's a good FFB. And judging by the development rate, it's quite safe to assume that ISI will eventually address the grip too (at least now it's much better than it was a year or two ago).

@EpilepticToast, what wheel do you use?

I've got a TX. I do agree to an extent, but I certainly prefer the options (even though very complicated) so I can get the FFB to feel exactly how I want, what I'm comfortable with for each car on each track. Of course that's only my view and I totally understand how others would see it differently. All I'm saying is it shouldn't be a basis to totally disregard the quality of the whole game.

 

[EpilepticToast]

For comparison:
rF2 an Pcars: both fresh install. I'm racing rF2 within ten minutes (also time to drink coffee) with good solid super sharp FFB. Pcars however takes me about thirty minutes tweaking and teeth grinding. Then I quit Pcars and start enjoy racing in rF2. I buy games to play them, not to figure out millions of configuration setting possibilities.

It shouldn't work you up that much man! I guess I'm just one of those people who prefers more options for unique customization. I find it adds to the immersion, having to spend a fair amount of time to set a specific car up exactly how you want it to feel for a race, just like they do in real motorsport

 

[TzZyO]

I've got a TX. I do agree to an extent, but I certainly prefer the options (even though very complicated) so I can get the FFB to feel exactly how I want, what I'm comfortable with for each car on each track. Of course that's only my view and I totally understand how others would see it differently. All I'm saying is it shouldn't be a basis to totally disregard the quality of the whole game.

Totally agree that the more options the better. Even if you have to search for a not very conveniently placed .ini-file to get to them... Even to the extent of decompiling a bin .xml and recompiling it back for Dirt Rally (I would do that, but couldn't find the tool).

Hoped you had a G27 so I could ask you for your settings in case I missed something, but since you have a TX, there is a little point for me doing that. I wonder if not having a better wheel could be the reason I don't like the sim's FFB...

 

[aleph]

We are going back here to the same endless argument that goes on at the official PCars forum: yes, FFB eventually works, it only takes patience and commitment (and possibly Jack Spade's files). In my view, this is precisely what's wrong with the game. It's like buying a car that is delivered to you in boxes, without assembly instructions, and being told that it works fine if you just manage to assemble it right. Some people are willing to do that, others - like myself - just give it up after a while because that's not what they signed up for.

I've never driven a car on a racing track. I don't know how it feels, but I do know that some cars are easy to drive, others are more difficult, with some the wheels feel heavier than with others, etc. Theoretically, SMS had consultants to tell them just that. I don't mind having plenty of options to tweak FFB, but what I expected is that the game would give me the bare basics to start from. If I have to tune FFB by myself for each car, I will end up with a collection of cars that drive much the same.

I think everybody agrees by now that SMS blew it with the FFB system - thus the endless threads at the forum and the need for Jack Spade's files. What I expected - and indeed suggested several times - is that they would acknowledge the problem and take steps to alleviate it. For instance, a section dedicated to FFB with subsections for each wheel would improve matters greatly (even AC, which is not plagued by the same issues, has that in their forum). A detailed FFB manual - or even a Wiki - would also be helpful. Instead, the standard reply to any direct question is "search the forum". I think what is really killing PCars - at least for me - is arrogance.

 

[TzZyO]

Is it just me, or the free 49C feels vastly different compared to the old cars? I would never expect to have more fun in 49C compared to aero-less 49, but I do have fun in the 49C while I would take the rF2's Brabham BT20 over both pCARS' and AC's 49 any time of the day. What gives?

 

[BernL]

PC enthusiast are way more hardcore.....console is where the money is as todays kids want istant gratification with little to no commitment. Pcars has top notch I candy, but lacks in to many other ways for me. With 1000 hours plus on AC and maybe 100 on Pcars and being an avid simmer.....AC was the surprise bet out of the gate. IRacing is King, but no offline play.....Pcars and AC could learn a little something from IRacing. I am with others....once bitten twice shy

 

[Charlie Fishykins]

I have quite a unique suggestion. CREATE RAINBOW ROAD.

 

[Boby Kim]

It shouldn't work you up that much man! I guess I'm just one of those people who prefers more options for unique customization. I find it adds to the immersion, having to spend a fair amount of time to set a specific car up exactly how you want it to feel for a race, just like they do in real motorsport

Im just too lazy to learn what all settings mean

 

[Charlie Fishykins]

I voted no. Pcars didn't have 4k racing helmets. Even Skyrim had that. IM KIDDING! OF COURSE I VOTED YES!

On a more serious note, I have a few suggestions for the creation of Pcars 2.

-Some custom made tracks! Its all dandy and fantastic comparing real tracks to the ones recreating in Pcars, but I would love some custom made tracks perhaps designed by the community implemented into the game!

-A track editor. A track editor is something that I have always dreamed of having within a Racing game, even during my childhood. There was this game in particular I had on my PSP which would allow you to custom build tracks and then race on them; the graphics sucked ass but the fact you could made tracks made the fun never ending. I am aware that this would be quite a tricky feature to implement, being that the AI would somehow have to configure themselves automatically to your tracks layout, but if this was a feature to be brought to life, I would be one happy racer indeed!

-Dont go for Simcade. Dont go for Simulation. DO BOTH! The original project cars was fantastic in the way that you can play in a style that you wanted. You could play it as a Simcade; assists enabled and some custom settings to make your experience more fun rather than challenging, and less punishing, or you could go for the simulation road, and disable the assists, Tyre wear, vehicle damage etc. Migrating this feature of high user customization when racing will make all racing fans happy.

-Car customization. I know what your thinking. WHACK A SPOILER ON IT AND A BODY KIT, AND CALL IT A STREET CAR. But no, I mean the ability to perhaps create your only car liveries in-game, and change aesthetic details of your vehicle such as the color, pattern, paint type (Glossy, Matte, Flip etc.) without having to manually create the livery in a custom program, as nooby editors such as myself weren't able to do this.

-A flashback feature. I know that PCars isn't part of the GRID series, but one thing I loved about the GRID series was the ability to do this, as it really made my life easier when racing at 3AM without any caffeine to keep me going. This flashback feature could be toggled on/off, so simulation fans can choose to disable this if they feel it is necessary.

-Powerups. LOL. i'm joking, Mario kart fits my childish needs perfectly.

-Seasons. The Project Car campaign allowed you to do seasons, and I wish this was possible in the Quick event mode, as I would have loved to just do 10 races simultaneously and battle with my opponents to get to the podium at the end of these 10 races. (I doubt I would get to the podium but you get my gist!)

Thats all my ideas folks. If anythings comes to mind I will make sure to adjust this post, but my brains not the most creative so I doubt I will brew up any ingenious ideas!

I'm so hyped for PCars2 guys! Keep the cars Broom Brooming!

 

[Boby Kim]

Pcars 2 gives me a dejavu feeling buying Shift 2. That is why i voted NO.

 

[Jake Fangio]

I bet they are going to do a copy and paste job,with a few added tracks and cars.It's taking them two years to make sense if the ffb settings.

 

[Revhead_1000]

Probably Not, considering the fact that the game is just a worse done version of the GT series, apart from the better AI. But mostly because of the immature behaviour of Ian Bell online, Im not going to support a studio that employs unprofessional people.

 

[ermo]

(...) yes, FFB eventually works, it only takes patience and commitment (and possibly Jack Spade's files). In my view, this is precisely what's wrong with the game. (...)
A detailed FFB manual - or even a Wiki - would also be helpful. Instead, the standard reply to any direct question is "search the forum". I think what is really killing PCars - at least for me - is arrogance.

Your post gave me an association to the situation where one is trying to assemble a somewhat complicated piece of IKEA flatpak furniture with no manual to speak of. Using emoticons, the reaction would amount to roughly this:

So, if I were to interpret what you (and others) are saying, would I be on the right track if I thought that the overarching feeling is one of being powerless to change things to one's taste and being angry and annoyed as a result? And that any pleas for help and directions seemingly go on deaf ears?

To be honest, I'm not sure that it is really arrogance as much as it is apathy if that matters any; "Never attribute to malice that which can adequately be explained by ignorance" as the saying goes.

Now, I've followed the FFB development fairly closely and I still feel it is more black art than science, possibly with a pinch of poor UI design decisions (of which the developers themselves are painfully aware but unable and/or unwilling to fix this late in the product cycle despite how we all feel about the situation).

The FFB system in and of itself is, I would argue, very elegant in that it is essentially a pipeline with different functions (rear-axle g-force derived FFB aka SoP for "Seat of Pants" is one such function and FyScale aka "lateral force on the steering wheel" is another) strung together.

But even if the FFB system was created with the best intentions (link), in hindsight it is clear that the system and how it is (and isn't!) presented to the user is too technical in nature in the sense that it is not a consumer amplifier with a few knobs to dial, but actually a toolset with which one can build a professional mixer console if that makes sense?

FWIW, I know what is in the pipeline for pCARS 2 and I'm fairly confident that we'll have access to both the full toolset and ... some more consumer friendly options.

In the mean time, AJ says that the most important thing to get right for ones particular wheel is actually the wheel-drag reducing options (Per Wheel Movement/Per Wheel Movement Squared/Wheel Position Smoothing) and possibly the options that counteract non-linearity in the wheel feedback (ScoopKnee and ScoopReduction). For instance, the G27 wheel is one of the wheels where the weaker FFB signals simply don't result in any wheel movement, which makes the FFB feel dead in the zone around just around TDC. This issue is addressed by the Scoop options as explained in the link above.

I'm slowly getting back into pCARS 2 development, so if you're interested in proofreading and copyediting, I might be able to convince AJ to engage in dialog with me on the subject of FFB and getting the basics right in the context of pCARS 1 with a step-by-step HOWTO for setting up the baseline FFB for ones particular wheel.

How does that sound to you?

I tried starting an FFB guide here (link) last year, but I never got around to finishing it.

 

[Michael Watts]

I love how they just completely abandoned PCars 1 with known issues that were never resolved in lieu of working on PCars 2. Seems to me it would have been a good idea to fix all the problems with the first one so the sequal doesn't have more of the same.

 

[Oldguy]

I love Pcars and don't like AC all that much. Try theses setting, I did http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/sh...g-universally-for-all-wheels&highlight=bmanic and it opened up a whole new experience for me in Pcars !!!