Tactile Immersion - General Discussion - Hardware & Software

[Zoof2]

Ive checked that I have the 16 gauge mic cable

I have also now moved the transducer which became hot . It was my seat transducer and I think my original placement caused the air vent on top of the reckhorn shaker to be covered which im guessing played a part as no over heat since.
I had a play with the short trial version of SSW software last night and it made a huge difference in the feedback from the transducers.
Unfortunatley i was unable to get my audio from the headphones at the same time so im off to by a second soundcard today to install into my pc to get round that issue .
#Really trying to learn about this stuff as I go !!

Soundcard installed and thats done the trick . No more audio through the shakers .
I have only used the free trial of SSW at the moment .
What would be the best software to use between SSW or Simvibe with two transducers seat and pedals ? Any suggestions from someone who has tried both would be great

 

[Zoof2]

Thanks for replying.

Full range audio, I do not believe is the issue as the tactile unit will only generate frequencies within its specifications. Well, for instance, some Clark TST models offer tactile up to 800Hz but they will work with full range audio no problems generating audio like a speaker also.

The ventilation may of been an issue but often overheating can come from the unit being over-driven regards an amps wattage output or specific Hz from (effects being used) with these then constantly in operation with high levels of amplitude. Telemetry-based tactile like SSW or Simvibe (or other) can be quite demanding on tactile units, moreso than typical audio.

Without audio monitoring of the effects the user cant see how layers or multple generated effects alter the complete audio output. An example from Simvibe would be multiple effects or layers all operating and using similar frequencies with rather high levels of gain for each effect. These then multiple effects or layers will increase the gain of those frequencies being used. As they build up its common that frequencies will be peaking beyond + 3dB and this may then cause clipping.

That is one of the things I believe for those with Simvibe (Auto Tune) helps to try and prevent but it does nothing to generate "good effects" from poor settings.

As SSW allows full creation of the waveform for its effects. Then it perhaps helps give more control in creating effects that may help prevent this. With iNuke DSP we can also prevent this and tailor the amps output to suit the tactile and installation, it's much much better than what Simvibe Autotune does.



No worries, given you plenty of new SSW effect files to keep you busy.
Look forward to your feedback and comments to help determine what goes into the public release.
SSW is feeling very good now on my own rig and tactile.

SSW has made a huge difference and thats just in the free trial ive had a short go with.
I do have the audio going through a mixer to the amp to keep an eye on any clipping that may take place and stop the amp over peaking .

 

[Mr Latte]

Soundcard installed and thats done the trick . No more audio through the shakers .
I have only used the free trial of SSW at the moment .
What would be the best software to use between SSW or Simvibe with two transducers seat and pedals ? Any suggestions from someone who has tried both would be great

I would advise you to buy SSW
Spending much more money on Simvibe especially with only two tactile its is not going to bring you any advantages.

I have not seen a full in-depth and (fair) analysis of Simvibe Vs Sim Shaker Wheels done properly.
If anything most in the community have not been taking Sim Shaker Wheels as a serious alternative.
This I presume is mostly down to the default .wav for the effects being rather limited in what immersion they deliver. Only recently have we got =Andre= to add good possibilities for engine effects that was greatly appreciated.

Also a comparison done earlier in the year @ i-racing forums with using only the default SSW files. So as a comparison it was very much flawed with a clear intention of favoring Simvibe. (imho)

So for the last 6 months or so I have been playing around with SSW effects file creation. Did some very basic ones months ago and shared but much progress has been made since those. I sought after other online friends that have helped with feedback to determine the feel/character of some effects. The goal was creating effects that would work not only well but work well on various tactile hardware. From the basic to the most upmarket. To suit the beginner to the most advanced user.

We truly seek the best possible immersion, regardless of what the software is or how much it costs.
I personally believe what we have now in SSW is better than Simvibe and these files are being finalised for release soon for the community to use. Also released will be iNuke DSP profiles for owners of these amps. These configured to use on the most common tactile units to help match their own performance characteristics and working well with the SSW .wav effects.

The community will decide for itself which software it prefers in what each offers in immersion.
However in my own view SSW still can improve with what it offers and I personally will continue to push for more features or updates. Much credit to =Andre= for what he has done thus far but also listening and bringing what the community as a whole asks for.

I plan to do a detailed but fair comparison of my own but it may be in the New Year.
A full how to thread for iNuke and using SSW .wav is coming and will make things simple for even beginners to get up and running with good feeling effects.

 

[Zoof2]

I would advise you to buy SSW
Spending much more money on Simvibe especially with only two tactile its is not going to bring you any advantages.

I have not seen a full in-depth and (fair) analysis of Simvibe Vs Sim Shaker Wheels done properly.
If anything most in the community have not been taking Sim Shaker Wheels as a serious alternative.
This I presume is mostly down to the default .wav for the effects being rather limited in what immersion they deliver. Only recently have we got =Andre= to add good possibilities for engine effects that was greatly appreciated.

Also a comparison done earlier in the year @ i-racing forums with using only the default SSW files. So as a comparison it was very much flawed with a clear intention of favoring Simvibe. (imho)

So for the last 6 months or so I have been playing around with SSW effects file creation. Did some very basic ones months ago and shared but much progress has been made since those. I sought after other online friends that have helped with feedback to determine the feel/character of some effects. The goal was creating effects that would work not only well but work well on various tactile hardware. From the basic to the most upmarket. To suit the beginner to the most advanced user.

We truly seek the best possible immersion, regardless of what the software is or how much it costs.
I personally believe what we have now in SSW is better than Simvibe and these files are being finalised for release soon for the community to use. Also released will be iNuke DSP profiles for owners of these amps. These configured to use on the most common tactile units to help match their own performance characteristics and working well with the SSW .wav effects.

The community will decide for itself which software it prefers in what each offers in immersion.
However in my own view SSW still can improve with what it offers and I personally will continue to push for more features or updates. Much credit to =Andre= for what he has done thus far but also listening and bringing what the community as a whole asks for.

I plan to do a detailed but fair comparison of my own but it may be in the New Year.
A full how to thread for iNuke and using SSW .wav is coming and will make things simple for even beginners to get up and running with good feeling effects.

Thanks alot I shall be purchasing the full software today . Thanks for all the help on this thread ☺

 

[Ceolmor]

Soundcard installed and thats done the trick . No more audio through the shakers .
I have only used the free trial of SSW at the moment .
What would be the best software to use between SSW or Simvibe with two transducers seat and pedals ? Any suggestions from someone who has tried both would be great

If it helps @Zoof2 I started with SSW and then purchased SimVibe to compare. Wished I hadn't.

For me SimVibe straight out of the box is nowhere near as good as SSW. And that was even before I got some custom files from @Mr Latte . I am sure that if I spent a lot of time on SimVibe I could get it good. But there seems little point when for me SSW is better from the off.

Now that Andre has added new engine effects, SSW is getting very interesting. And currently I have only one shaker attached to the seat.

Edit: Drafted this reply before seeing post above.

 

[DM77]

I'm also really happy with SSW. I was going to also get Simvibe, but I really can't see the point when SSW seems really decent. Simvibe would have to be significantly better to justify the higher price, and from what I've been reading I doubt this would be the case.

 

[Mr Latte]

I'm also really happy with SSW. I was going to also get Simvibe, but I really can't see the point when SSW seems really decent. Simvibe would have to be significantly better to justify the higher price, and from what I've been reading I doubt this would be the case.

I'm at the point of asking you to consider buying a Mini LFE so you can compare it to ADX and we can have tested and available iNuke DSP profiles working well with ADX & BK Mini using the latest SSW .wav files prior to releasing them.

Have tried several times on these forums to get a willing tester that owns:
Sim Shaker Wheels, with Mini LFE or BK Gamer tactile and uses an iNuke DSP amplifier

 

[DM77]

I'm at the point of asking you to consider buying a Mini LFE so you can compare it to ADX and we can have tested and available iNuke DSP profiles working well with ADX & BK Mini using the latest SSW .wav files prior to releasing them.

Have tried several times on these forums to get a willing tester that owns:
Sim Shaker Wheels, with Mini LFE or BK Gamer tactile and uses an iNuke DSP amplifier

That would be a large outlay for something which is probably gonna happen, but is currently quite far down my priority list right now

Prior to that I have to sell an air rifle and air pistol, and my old racing kit, pay off my Fanatec upgrade, clear Christmas, pay off a PS4, sell a few monitors to possibly fund triple 24" nvidia surround setup for my simrig, and I need buy a lapboard due to our living room layout changing and I no longer have the armrest of a chair available to use my mouse on.

 

[Emery]

How many of you are isolating the pedal plate & seat from the rest of the rig? Or are most of you using the whole rig and isolating that from the floor?

It seems to me that one would need a less powerful amp if there's less mass to move. Of course that also brings up the question of how seat padding affects the shaker response... anyone have comparisons, like maybe if someone had a bare seat and compared to if you sat on a 4cm or 8cm cushion between?

 

[asteroulis]

I recently moved my BK Mini's on the pedal plate and seat and made an impressive difference. Isolated pedal plate and seat base from the rest of the rig with These and these btw. But I am also going to isolate and the whole rig itself at a next point with these.

*Edited to put links

 

[Ceolmor]

How many of you are isolating the pedal plate & seat from the rest of the rig? Or are most of you using the whole rig and isolating that from the floor?

It seems to me that one would need a less powerful amp if there's less mass to move. Of course that also brings up the question of how seat padding affects the shaker response... anyone have comparisons, like maybe if someone had a bare seat and compared to if you sat on a 4cm or 8cm cushion between?

Here is my rig, with isolation. At the moment I only have a BK Advance bolted below the seat.

There are 8 of these Buttkicker isolators (see pic below) between the frame the seat sits on and the mainframe below. (Click on the picture above and you will see them.)

[/url][/IMG]

The seat is a fibreglass racing seat which includes some padding, but not as much as you would get with a road car seat, and no springs.. Before adding the BK I had put some extra cushioning under my backside, but I removed it when I added the BK. It did help with getting the sensations to my body.

I cannot give you a before and after isolator comparison, as I included these when I added the BK. However, although I am certainly no expert, I am not convinced that adding isolation would have enabled me to get a less powerful amp. There is still a lot of weight in the seat, frame the seat is attached to and of course me, and this all has to be moved by the BK. In addition, the isolators need to be bolted down quite tight to ensure the seat doesn't shoot back 10 feet when you hit the brakes hard!!

The main frame sits on 12 of these isotators, which sit on a rubber coated MDF board which sits on 12 more of the same isolators, which sit on these gym floor mats. But all that was mainly to reduce vibration going into the upstairs floor.

I haven't yet added a BK to the pedals, but when I do I will isolate it again with the Buttkicker iolators, as they are quite springy.

 

[Emery]

Excellent help for me as I build up my next rig!

 

[Ferenczy36]

Well, I was hoping to go full chassis mode, but to do it right just seems a little out of reach for me at the moment. Was looking at the iNuke DSP1000, but as I understand it to run 4 transducers in chassis mode I would need two of these amps. I know SimVibe mentions that you can run chassis mode with only two transducers, but not sure how effective that is. I may just go with a single for now under the driver's seat, and slowly work to expand from there.

 

[Ferenczy36]

Has anyone here had any previous experience with the Buttkicker BK4-4 Advance? Not finding too many reviews online except from non-sim users. If I'm only going to go single for the time being, I want it to provide enough punch. Already sold on the iNuke DSP1000, I've seen how much better the mini LFE and concert perform when using a quality amp with DSP. Reading about the BK Advance BK4-4 and how it sounds like a sweet spot between the mini LFE and the big LFE, just would like to hear from some more sim users who have tried them.

 

[Beef36]

.

 

[Ceolmor]

Has anyone here had any previous experience with the Buttkicker BK4-4 Advance? Not finding too many reviews online except from non-sim users. If I'm only going to go single for the time being, I want it to provide enough punch. Already sold on the iNuke DSP1000, I've seen how much better the mini LFE and concert perform when using a quality amp with DSP. Reading about the BK Advance BK4-4 and how it sounds like a sweet spot between the mini LFE and the big LFE, just would like to hear from some more sim users who have tried them.

I'm running a single BK Advance bolted centrally underneath my seat powered by an iNuke DSP1000, which I fitted a couple of months ago. See my post above #251 and my thread http://www.racedepartment.com/threads/getting-into-tactile-immersion-help-please.139738/

I've never had any other Buttkicker so cannot compare. To be honest, at 300+ watts I was expecting more. But probably I was expecting too much. Also, there are so many factors which can affect it's performance; construction of the rig, what the Advance is attached to and where, what isolation you have, which software you're using and how configured. And as I am new to all this, I doubt I have got all these things right.

With the Advance, I don't get the piston pang problem of the Mini LFE. I get nice engine vibrations now this had been added to the Sim Shaker Wheels software I am using, and a great kick when I change gear. The Advance certainly has enough power to let you know it is there underneath you when you hit a big bump etc.

Initially I was expecting it to shake me out of my seat. But I've come to realise that's not what you want. The tactile should compliment the ffb you get from your wheel, not overpower it. At first I had everything turned up, but then it doesn't feel natural. Now I am using it more subtilely, and I think the refinement and balance of the Advance works well with this.

If you intend to have one BK only, I would not go below the power of the Advance. I think that if you are using only one BK to give you all the sensations you want then any BK is going to struggle, whatever BK you choose. Some of these guys are using 6+ shakers which is going to give you a completely different experience.

So, to summarise, I think the BK Advance is up to the job of adding tactile to your rig with just one shaker on the seat. A big BK LFE will give you more 'shake', but it might not be such an all rounder as the BK Advance. And it costs more. Also, I think the Advance is a good long term choice because if I ever upgrade my tactile then 4 of them will be great in chassis mode.

I think @signman has both the Advance and the LFE, so he may be able to give you a comparison, although he is using them as part of a multi shaker setup.

Any questions @Ferenczy36 feel free to ask.

 

[signman]

Yes I use 4 Advance and a single large LFE under my seat plus a Clarke TST239 on the rear of the seat.
x3 inuke DSP3000



I have a NEW in box Advance for sale.
See Classifieds.

 

[Mr Latte]

Advance is a good step up from the Mini series. It's not so much the watts to concentrate on when comparing.

The biggest advantage with a BK Advance and then with BK LFE is the additional energy they produce with extended low bass frequencies.

Having this adds to the whole satisfaction and immersion you can get from effects. Yet do such with controlled wattage and composure.

I would however greatly recommend people to go beyond a single tactile unit. A kicker model like the BK Advance combined with a Clark TST model both on a seat will give excellent energy but additional detailing. TST model's seem to have an advantage in timing and frequencies above 60 Hz. The alternative's are going Stereo in the seat with 2 identical units. Or a seat/pedal combo which will also greatly enhance the general immersion by including another body region feeling the tactile.

Great to see more and more people get jnto tactile and engage the community.

 

[Ferenczy36]

I'm running a single BK Advance bolted centrally underneath my seat powered by an iNuke DSP1000, which I fitted a couple of months ago. See my post above #251 and my thread http://www.racedepartment.com/threads/getting-into-tactile-immersion-help-please.139738/

I've never had any other Buttkicker so cannot compare. To be honest, at 300+ watts I was expecting more. But probably I was expecting too much. Also, there are so many factors which can affect it's performance; construction of the rig, what the Advance is attached to and where, what isolation you have, which software you're using and how configured. And as I am new to all this, I doubt I have got all these things right.

With the Advance, I don't get the piston pang problem of the Mini LFE. I get nice engine vibrations now this had been added to the Sim Shaker Wheels software I am using, and a great kick when I change gear. The Advance certainly has enough power to let you know it is there underneath you when you hit a big bump etc.

Initially I was expecting it to shake me out of my seat. But I've come to realise that's not what you want. The tactile should compliment the ffb you get from your wheel, not overpower it. At first I had everything turned up, but then it doesn't feel natural. Now I am using it more subtilely, and I think the refinement and balance of the Advance works well with this.

If you intend to have one BK only, I would not go below the power of the Advance. I think that if you are using only one BK to give you all the sensations you want then any BK is going to struggle, whatever BK you choose. Some of these guys are using 6+ shakers which is going to give you a completely different experience.

So, to summarise, I think the BK Advance is up to the job of adding tactile to your rig with just one shaker on the seat. A big BK LFE will give you more 'shake', but it might not be such an all rounder as the BK Advance. And it costs more. Also, I think the Advance is a good long term choice because if I ever upgrade my tactile then 4 of them will be great in chassis mode.

I think @signman has both the Advance and the LFE, so he may be able to give you a comparison, although he is using them as part of a multi shaker setup.

Any questions @Ferenczy36 feel free to ask.

Thanks! This is exactly what I wanted to hear. I know with only one I'm obviously not going to be able to run all the various effects, maybe just a couple of them. But what you mentioned about getting no piston pang with the Advance is one of the reasons I was considering it over the mini-LFE or concert. I want something I don't have to push towards the limit. I was really wanting to dive into chassis mode with 4 shakers, but with those and the amps required, it's a pricey investment. Especially since I just bought a new Fanatec wheel/pedals/shifter. So starting with one Advance and building from there seems like the path I'm going to take.

 

[Ferenczy36]

Yes I use 4 Advance and a single large LFE under my seat plus a Clarke TST239 on the rear of the seat.
x3 inuke DSP3000



I have a NEW in box Advance for sale.
See Classifieds.

Just took a look. Unfortunately looks like you are overseas from me, so my cost to purchase one locally is more feasible.