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Getting into Tactile Immersion - Help please?

Discussion in 'Sim Racing Hardware' started by Ceolmor, Aug 19, 2017.

  1. Ceolmor

    Ceolmor
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    Noob enquiry here from someone seeking guidance from others who are prepared to share their experiences of tactile immersion.

    I have a good 80/20 rig with a fibreglass racing bucket seat. I am getting good ffb from my wheel, but I am looking to dip my toes (or backside) into the world of tactile immersion. I do mostly Assetto Corsa with some DiRT Rally and rFactor2. Maybe also PCars2 next month.

    What I'm looking for is two shakers for the seat (left and right) to give me engine, gear change, bumps and rear slippage tactile feedback. Later, I might want to extend 'simvibe' to other parts of the rig (pedals) but I want to keep it simple at this stage until I better understand what I'm doing. I've read a lot of threads, but still have a lot of questions.

    Noise
    I've read reports of people not using simvibe due to the noise and the shakers become expensive paperweights! Is simvibe noisy? My rig is upstairs on carpet with cushioned underlay. Can I resolve the problem completely with rubber isolators, or will there always be some noise, and how much?

    Amplifier
    I think this one is simple. The iNuke NU1000 DSP here seems to be the way to go. Would go for the iNuke NU3000 DSP here if that was considered necessary or advisable. Is it?

    Shakers
    The Buttkicker Mini LFE here would be the simplest option, as they are currently available in the UK and I can get brackets here to easily attach to the rig. But, should I be concerned about the apparent noise issue? Mr Latte has been testing here on resolving the issue, but would I be better to avoid having to do a work-around and go for a different shaker instead? How would the ADX Maximus here compare, which is also available in the UK? What are others experience of these two shakers?

    Placement[​IMG]

    It seems I have a number of options. (a) The shakers sitting on the aforementioned brackets attached to the outside of the two runners. (b) Each shaker bolted to either side of a sheet of aluminium or wood attached to the bottom of the two brackets. (c) Each shaker bolted to either side of a sheet of aluminium or wood attached to the bottom of the runners. (d) Shakers bolted directly to the bottom and back of the seat (which I'd prefer to avoid if possible as I don't want to be drilling holes in my seat.)

    Does anyone have any thoughts on which might be the best? Maybe there is a better option I've not thought of. Wood or aluminium? Where is it best to put isolators. With these placements (except d) will I feel any left and right separation?

    Software
    SSW here or Sim Commander 4 here? I am thinking of trying the SSW, which is a bit cheaper and may suit my 'simple' needs. Will this give me what I am looking for?

    Any advice will be gratefully appreciated. Thanks in anticipation.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2017
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  2. Mr Latte

    Mr Latte
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    Thanks for doing your own thread on this...
    Will respond late Saturday or Sunday to get more specifics and offer things to consider while hopefully so can others. Maybe more people can give you impressions on the ADX vs BK Mini type units or indeed Clark TST 209 or 239 models

    You don't mention a general budget or if you want to tackle this with a more long-term approach to build it up gradually into something more special. For example, would you prefer to have 1x BK Advance and gradually grow the configuration to have 4 of these in CM. Or are you really at a point of deciding on units similarly priced @ £100 each and being able to at least enjoy using 2 of these from the start?
     
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  3. Ceolmor

    Ceolmor
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    Many thanks.

    I am looking at a budget of in the region of £400 (€440 or $510) for the shaker/s & amp to create something reasonable for my seat in the first instance, which I can also enjoy now. I can then see myself adding to this in the future.

    However, I cannot see myself eventually going beyond 4 shakers and 2 amps as I do not want to detract from my wheel. My goal here is immersion (and decent lap times) in sim racing, rather than the science of tactile feedback itself.

    I have not yet found a source in the UK for the Clark TST 209 or 239.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2017
  4. Ceolmor

    Ceolmor
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    Whoops ...error
     
  5. Mr Latte

    Mr Latte
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    UK has seen recent price increases in many of the associated products which don't help matters. TST can be imported but with this budget, I would then drop the idea of these. Not sure if your budget is going to give you much scope.

    Likely that you need to put easily £100+ and upto £200 towards isolators, isolation materials, cables/connectors. So with the £400 budget at this time that's approx 1/4 - 1/2 going to help cover extra vibration/isolation and essentials needed for your specific installation requirements.

    Your rigs 8020 will first need primary isolation to help maintain for improved performance the tactile in the seat region. Buttkicker RI isolators are quite good but these are @ £22 for 4. Some others you may have to import as not easily found in the UK like the Clark T100 models or alternatives.

    I would advise an MDF platform base (BQ 18mm MDF) cut to size, approx 2" high. With added rubber/matt type top layer and isolators attached below. Then even possibly Easimatt rubber floor tiles. All these will help act as a bass trap to sustain the secondary vibrations and greatly reduce these going into the floor. Cheaper options are possible but may not be that successful with still vibrations going into flooring and heard in adjacent rooms or those below.

    Amplifier:
    No need for the more expensive DSP 3000 in this case even if considering BK Advance in future.

    iNuke DSP 1000
    £184

    Which Tactile then.....
    Really it brings you down to perhaps consider the ADX vs Mini LFE
    While the Mini LFE will produce a bit more low-end strength to the ADX, currently it's £115 Vs £80.
    Most people with the ADX are happy with them. I hope to see some other users return frequency tests and their own feedback on these models soon.

    2 Units
    Mini LFE £230
    ADX £160

    You could get 2x ADX and certainly have enjoyment with them and then consider to run with stereo in the seat or mono in seat and pedals. Im not fully convinced the additional cost to the Mini LFE at present is really worth the extra outlay.

    Alternative consideration, buy 1 BK Advance, with the option to get a 2nd later in a few months?
    Potentially with a long term end goal of 4 BK Advance in CM if you wanted. These are quite a step up in performance over both other options. No question the BK Advance can hit much better in the low frequencies and with much less piston pang issue being a factor. One reason mainly as it doesnt have to be driven hard for it to feel/perform well.

    What I would say is that it's better to do this, than buy 2 ADX to start, only to then later want more low-end performance and add a single BK Advance with the additional amplifier it needs. This ends up for your seat costing more with 3 units and 2 amps for the seat and won't perform as well as 2 BK Advance over CM. Another factor is that in CM it offers full suspension effects compared to using a single bigger central unit in EM that doesn't support suspension based effects.

    EM effects like "Roadbumps" or "Impacts" are not the best way I found to exploit a bigger or better performance unit. While a bigger unit certainly can however, work well with enhancing "Engine" effects. Having 2 bigger units via CM with no restrictions on what effects can be used is the better configuration, easier to manage in Simvibe and only needs one amp.

    Buttkicker Advance
    £240

    It's often hard to get people to view the long term perspective. Many people seem to rush out in excitement to get 4 cheap units with required amps for 4 way CM. Doing this limiting quality for quantity in the immersion possible. Not seriously considering 2 better tactile units and 1 amp to start with. Then upgrade to 4 in future if desired.

    Lots to consider, perhaps before going further in detail with the installation ideas...
    I think you need to be closer to £600 outlay to do this in a proper manner with the iNuke amps and high quality isolation control.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2017
  6. Ceolmor

    Ceolmor
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    Many thanks @Mr Latte for your valued advice.

    Hardware Choice
    My fault, as I did not make it clear. I was setting aside £400 for the shaker/s and amp alone, and expected extra costs on top of this for cables, isolators and software. Although I was not expecting up to £200 for the cables and isolators.

    So, you have me convinced that I should go with the Buttkicker Advance. It seems it will give me a better shaker with less sound issues, which I can be looking to upgrade in the forseeable future.

    So, subject to your advice, my plan now is to buy a iNuke NU1000 dsp amp and 1 Buttkicker Advance for the seat at this stage, with a view to adding another Buttkicker Advance in a couple of months.

    Isolation
    As you can see from the photo below, my rig is large. It has a footprint or 182cmx78cm. With the exception of 4 uprights, all the profiles are 40mmx40mm.

    [​IMG]

    Are you advising an mdf platform board under the whole of the rig? Is this in addition too or instead of the Buttkicker RI isolators? The rig already sits on carpet and underlay. Will that give me some protection?
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2017
  7. Mr Latte

    Mr Latte
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    Hi, again cheers for confirming some things here and in PM. That's a nice rig btw...

    Looking at it, you already have invested quite a bit into your hobby, done this over time with gradual upgrades perhaps like many others also have. Often gradual additions or dipping your toe rather than jumping into the pool are a good way to go about it. Thank you for your feedback...

    Correct Perspective:
    I'm not saying that enjoyment or a good level of tactile immersion is not possible with tactile units like ADX or BK Mini as this isn't the case at all. Yet the truth is, these in the world of tactile immersion for what is available, are close to entry type level units in comparison. Achieving that really good low-end performance is costly, just as are many other components in this hobby. To experience the better/best immersion and performance they can deliver over more affordable or lesser options.

    I just want to be sure those reading this do not get the wrong impression. Having multiple tactile units like ADX / BK Mini can indeed be enjoyable but you're never going to experience the really good lowest frequencies with much energy or the richness they can bring to the immersion. When you do get to feel the difference bigger/better units can deliver in this regard it's hard to go back as you now know what your missing.

    A user reading this that has such popular units, can feel free to use a test tone and test your unit at 60Hz and then at 40Hz. They will feel how richer and firmer the bass feels at 40Hz compared to 60Hz. Now take that principle and with an adequate/capable bigger unit consider how 20Hz then feels to 40Hz. This is what a unit like the Advance delivers which then adds greater sensation to delivering more satisfying bumps or engine effects.

    SSW
    With SSW we can easily adapt the "WAV" files I create for the effects to work on a single unit so will spend some time doing this with the latest files I have. Then can test these on one of my own tactile units on my seat.

    Getting Creative
    If you bought the Advance and the iNuke DSP 1000 but later then added say an ADX to the pedals. It is possible to create a profile to allow more immersion. For example also have deceleration or braking be felt in the front with wheel slip representing spinning of tyres and understeer as well as feeling bumps or gear in your feet region too. This will trigger your brain with the additional felt vibrations in another body region to bring improved immersion.


    MDF Platform & Materials
    BQ used to offer in some stores a cutting service.
    They sold 8x4 ft 18mm MDF boards (not chipboard) so this is more than big enough to be cut to what you require and isn't that expensive.

    If this had a rubber matt layer possibly even if required in 2 strips glued/added to the top/sides or even partly folded in below the MDF. This will help for the purpose we are seeking but also the visual appearance. Many examples available on Amazon or elsewhere by rubber flooring specialists.

    Example, various prices options and suppliers available


    You can have this MDF rubber covered baseboard then placed on 6 screwed in isolators to distribute the weight evenly (6 as your base is a rather big area).

    Thermoplastic Elastomers
    Options do exist from "fitness/gym" based products that can act as rather good possibilities for affordable anti-vibration. The issue with some of these is they may raise the height of the base platform more. Some can be inflated so also maybe come in various sizes (take note). Of course, the platform could have these hidden with a trim hanging to create more of a raised plinth appearance the rig is then set on.

    While I have not personally tested these but have seen them being used just placed under metal rigs. I think it is worth considering but personally, would apply such to a more professional looking base platform and have hidden than look like this example which seems to have rather big inflated ones...


    [​IMG]

    Example One
    Example Two

    Look for alternatives as prices can vary...
    These could work rather well but won't be as stiff as some isolators so may bring a degree of sway/jiggle to the rig. Which might be fine or annoying depending by how much or the users opinion.

    Some high-end isolation options can be quite costly.
    I am specifically trying to show you affordable but suitable applications.


    Floor Tyles
    Lastly I would advise optional yet not that expensive and worth considering floor tiles.[​IMG]
    I referenced these earlier or possibly considering other brand alternatives.
    To have rubber floor tiles on your carpet wide enough to cover the cockpit area and under the MDF base board. This would be the final isolation/absorption.


    Closer Look At Isolation
    Will discuss here the importance of the "Primary" isolation used on the placement of where the tactile unit(s) are installed. * Send me some more images of your seat section to PM and how you were thinking of installing.

    EDIT: Okay got your images see below for what I think is a good option. Yes lesser or cheaper is possible. This in my view should be adequate as you may get without going to the expense of higher end or specialist isolation/soundproofing products.

    Some may think you don't necessarily need the full-length MDF type platform and only cuttings of MDF at the isolators supporting the rig. This may be true as I have had others with success in doing this in the past but the purpose of the full MDF platform (with rubber) is to help absorb more of the vibrations, and maintain them as they disperse, so even less vibration will be directed directly into the rubber feet and floor below. As this is a main area of concern for your build spending a few quid extra here is maybe advisable.

    I can't find these in UK but are good 2.5" dia and 1" thick.
    Use with 1" washer and bolt/screw into your surface. You may be able to get 2 (8) packs shipped for the same postage if you enquire with them.

    Clark Synthesis use what appears to be the same but Parts Express charge $6.95 each for them.
    However, their packs I know from experience do come with a screw and washer (lol).

    You can consider having the following if you want:
    • Rubber isolators between the 8020 seat section and the 8020 mainframe to help maintain the vibrations within the tactile connected to the seat section.
    • Isolators under the 8020 base frame on top of the MDF and rubber matting suggested.
    • Isolator below the MDF board and folded rubber matting underneath.
    As a rough estimate, you could consider 4 BK RI (rubber isolators) on the seat frame as these also contain a metal washer element and are a smaller diameter. It will be easy to bolt either type onto your 8020 frame. However 2x of those 8 packs will be enough for all that you need I believe, see below.

    4x 2.5" isolators between seat 8020 and mainframe 8020 sections.
    6x 2.5" isolators under the full-length of your 8020 frame on top of the MDF
    6x 2.5" isolators sandwiching the MDF in between the above set.

    Yes not forgetting suitable length bolts for each and those 1" washers.


    Cables & Adapters Needed
    Will go over this, also later to get a better idea of pricing and options.
    Not so bad of course if going with a single unit to start with,


    1x 3.5mm - Twin XLR cable (pc - amp, length required?)
    1x SpeakON Connector (for amp)
    1x Speaker Cable (length required?)

    Optional:
    Have the BK Advance easily connect/disconnect using SpeakON connectors:

    1x SpeakON coupler
    2x SpeakON connectors

    These could be used to connect the speaker cable into the BK Advance
    Want to get fancy?


    *We can look further into these and prices later when you let me know lengths or if you want just simple speaker cable from amp - BK only.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2017
  8. sjb266

    sjb266
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    Hey Mate.. I have a similar setup to you and here's what I did..

    Firstly .. don't get caught up too much in the extraneous details.. you only need a couple of things..

    To start.. i would get 2 Aura bass shakers .. i've got 4 of these on each of my 2 rigs and they are great.. You won't need anything more powerful..

    Get a 4 channel (so you can add 2 fronts later) amp.. i got a 1500w Sony car amp.. its a great amp with plenty of power ...you just need a 12v supply that can handle the load.. I've got a 60amp supply.. Check ebay.. they are about $100.. I use the 12v supply for other bits and pieces so the car amp was a logical and inexpensive choice.. Alternatively ...If you can afford the Behringer get the 4 channel EPQ304 model..

    Sim vibe is pretty great.. can't really recommend anything else.. you'll just need a dedicated soundcard.

    Just get any old speaker cable mate it is all the same..

    To mount them.. get 4 pieces of 4040 profile cut to 150mm each.. then cut 2 x MDF (16mm) plates about 160mm x 160mm.. Mount the profile pieces to the inside of the runners behind your seat.. 2 on each runner...
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG][/URL][/IMG]

    Bolt the MDF plates to these small frames - countersink the bolts and then screw the Aura's on top..
    Done! I can't imagine a better way to mount the shakers and the effect is wonderful.. there is obviously some audible buzzing coming from the shakers but i never hear it with the volume up even just a little bit so no worries there...

    I also tried with the Aura bolted directly to the seat.. it was terrible.. !!!

    [​IMG]

    I built a small passive volume controller that sits between the computer and the amp.. it's mounted under my wheel so i can control level of both the front pair and the rear pair on the fly.. highly recommended.. !

    Like I said.. keep it simple and you will love it.. Sometimes things can be over-complicated!

    Hope this helps and let me know if you need any further assistance.

    Simon
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2017
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  9. Mr Chip

    Mr Chip
    A lot of gear, little idea....... Premium

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    Excellent post and will digest and follow intently, as I am hoping to do similar :)
     
  10. Mr Latte

    Mr Latte
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    @sjb266 with respect your at a totally different performance level but it highlights exactly what I said regards people having "enjoyable tactile" with the budget low-end models. I would love for you to sit in my seat then your own. Your perspective on some of your comments may change.

    Plenty of people if using other models, may not be aware of the noise piston based models like Buttkicker can physically produce. This along with their extra power can bring regards vibration/noise issues. Biggest issue, for this user is likely going to be vibration noise and how where they travel. You can't better control a tactile unit with specific cut/gain to ANY individual frequencies than using Parametric EQ. This user will likely benefit of this due to his situation and can use such with the amp recommend to shape the operating characteristic of the unit(s) he then uses if desired/needed. This may all sound complicated, I agree, although that's myth on the part of people that do not do it, or have set such up.

    Like your rig, not attacking you personally here, let that be clear but a few points however as you give some rather questionable tips. Its actually good to get your own input as it highlights some of the opinions out there. I dont doubt for a moment you are enjoying what you have nor look down on such. It's clear that from your own experience/perspective you think more is not necessarily needed.
    I guess this comes down to what performance level the end-user wants to achieve.

    Your 1500 watt car amp only delivers 75 watts RMS into 4 channels but hey at least its 4 channels.
    Welcome to marketing, so let's refer to it as being 1500 watts as that's more impressive to use with 50-100 watt transducers. :whistling:

    These amps are not good for Buttkicker or more demanding models if a user wants to use such or wants to upgrade at some point. Thats before considering all the AC/DC inconvenience all for it being a 4 channel 4ohm amp. Two SMSL 98 would likely perform better with more wattage to boot, so car amps are NOT a good example but thats just imho.

    Powerful at 40Hz perhaps but what about true low bass and sub harmonic frequencies?
    Ahh see what your missing. Your comment is a bit like a Thrustmaster RS 500 owner saying they don't need a more powerful wheel like a DD model.

    Simvibe can be good, question is how or what way are alternatives better/worse and costing much less.
    It would be irresponsible just to ignore them. Other options are also coming, Simvibe isnt cheap and comes with rather questionable support or instructions. SSW will respond and help within usually a day or even same day and costs about 1/3 as much.

    No it's certainly not all the same....
    SOME different models will refer to using different AWG, also based on the length of the cable being used if over long distances. You may refer to this type of thing as "extraneous details" but its following specific guidelines by the manufacturers for some of the products available.

    Nothing wrong with attention to detail... :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2017
  11. Ceolmor

    Ceolmor
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    Hi Simon

    I really appreciate you taking the time to provide your detailed post. Its good to hear other's ideas and experiences, especially from someone who has a similar rig to mine. My rig started out as a KPCR Piez Rig Expert from Motedis, but has been heavily customised since.

    I like the way you have attached your Aura Bass shakers to the rig. Hadn't thought of that. Something similar would also work on the pedal area if I extend to there in due course.

    My issue is potential noise. I don't have any neighbours or young children to worry about and I use VR (Rift) headphones. However, my rig is in a room above the living room and if my wife can hear the rig every time I'm on it, I will either have to turn off the shakers, or get a divorce.

    Thanks again.
    Rob
     
  12. Ceolmor

    Ceolmor
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    Hi Mr Chip.

    Good to hear from you. We will need to compare notes.
     
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  13. Mr Latte

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    Okay added my update to previous post #7...
     
  14. sjb266

    sjb266
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    Hey Rob..

    I understand your concern regards noise. My rig is mounted on 6 feet similar to these [​IMG]
    These certainly help decouple the rig from the floor and dissipate the resonance of the shakers...

    I thinks it's best to start with something like this and then if you do need it (you might not) ..then start investigating more isolation options.

    Needless to say this is my opinion based on my experience. I have tried buttkickers and this setup works better for me.. The benefit of the limited frequency range of the Aura shakers for you is that you won't have to try and control the extreme bottom end.. These frequencies will be the hardest to tame and the most annoying for your wife!

    Regards

    Simon
     
  15. Mr Latte

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    If you had the money it would be good to order 1x ADX and 1x Advance and to compare them to give you more peace of mind which direction you would want to proceed.

    At the end of the day if you want a better tactile experience (in a quality sense) then this will need to have adequate isolation. What has been proposed my end is something that should be sufficient at a reasonable budget. It is very easy to go into specialist/professional anti-vibration feet/isolators that will cost $50 $60 or more per isolator.

    Example 1
    Example 2


    I have found helping people in the past, solutions I advised have worked well.
    Its up to you what or how you wish to proceed or even implement that shared if at all.

    One thing I forgot to show was Fatmat that comes in anti-vibration and sound deadening versions.
    This can easily be cut and applied to under the MDF foot sections also.

    If wanting a budget solution, you could make d.i.y feet combining some of the materials shown.
    MDF section / neoprene rubber layer / rubber isolator / fatmat / floor tiles and do so without making a base platform.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2017
  16. Martin Oberg

    Martin Oberg

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    My rig is mounted on a bunch if these (door stoppers) and it's a very cheap and effective way to keep the vibrations from going into the floor.
     

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  17. Mr Latte

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    I've seen others do similar or with the various cheap isolators found on ebay and them do the job for them.

    The problem comes down to how much tactile energy is being generated and spilling out from the main frame of the rig into the floor as to what level of isolation may be required. Many factors also like rig materials, the construction of the house, it could be trial and error.

    It's not just the lowest Hz that can travel, harmonics generated from Simvibe engine effects and if "audio tactile" is being incorporated/utilised are examples. Though this all depends on the tactile used as well. Look at some other threads were people are giving me scores on their various tactile in how good/strong they feel with different frequencies. Please keep in mind that more powerful units can deliver more energy even with mid bass Hz not just better response lower down. More energy means it can feel better but will then cover a wider distance before dispersing. This is one reason Buttkicker produce a Mini - full-size BK LFE model to be used in say, single small chairs - recliners - large 3 or 4 seater sofas. Each bigger unit can disperse the energy further.

    I don't think there is an easy way to know what is the "suitable" amount of isolation, regards this particular users example and conditions. For what happens if he adds more tactile later? Will a sufficient basic solution now still then provide enough isolation? Well that's why I propose what I have and based on things learned in the past helping others.

    You cannot go out and buy an 8020 rig with this all researched and done, in that someone has done multiple tests and sells suitable solutions for 8020 builds with tactile performance and isolation in mind. Ive recently got involved with a few 8020 rig owners who are adding tactile in various way/levels so keen to learn from their own feedback on that they find with solutions implemented.

    There are indeed many such rubber based products made for machinery, boats, engines or general purpose etc. If anyone wants to research sound deadening or vibration be it isolators or "floating floors" it in itself is quite a deep topic with scientific/mathematic factors to the point the different compounds suit various weights or loads.

    Many examples, some specialist options:
    [​IMG]

    BK IR with TI 100 TI 200 & TI 300
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2017
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  18. Ceolmor

    Ceolmor
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    OK, so it starts, My iNuke NU1000DSP has arrived.
    [​IMG]
    No Buttkicker to connect it to yet, but hey, you can't rush these things. (I bought it because Amazon.uk has just increased the price by £50 and I found another source at the old price.)

    I think I will have to mount the Buttkicker behind the seat on two 80/20 profiles, marked in red below.
    [​IMG]
    Mr Latte wisely advises that it would be better fitted directly under the seat, which I would really like to do, but at the moment there is not enough clearance for the 112mm high Buttkicker planned. I could re-build my rig to accommodate this, but as I hope to add a second Buttkicker to the near future (so they sit either side of the seat) this could be an expensive temporary fix.

    As recommended by Mr Latte, the seat section will be isolated from the main rig below with 4-four Buttkicker RI-4 one each between the runner and the cross-support, as shown in the diagram above. I've searched for cheaper options, but it could be a false economy, so I will go with the real thing.

    So, that just leaves what I do to isolate the remainder of the rig. Attaching more Buttkicker RI-4 I can do easy. Laying rubber floor tiles on the carpet I can do easy. Building an MDF platform covered in rubber matting, folded over the side and underneath may be more of a challenge. I think my rig looks quite professional at present, but fear it my all look like a dog's dinner by the time I have added my efforts at a diy platform.
     
  19. Mr Latte

    Mr Latte
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    Look forward to seeing your progress whatever you do and get to enjoy some tactle.

    As mentioned in other threads and to those that have chatted with me in person I always say, experiment, have more than one option to consider. What you show should be fine, but with a few spare bits of 8020 it allows you to get more creative. Often when working at it you may find you get a "what if" moment. That's the beauty of 8020 though...

    The reason I stated more under the seat is that then the unit would be central to the 4 BK IR isolators you support the seat frame on. Not just sitting at the back location for the rear pair as with this much of the direct energy will flow through the isolator as its 1st point of contact.

    With the central position the tactile HAS to travel to flow through the 8020 section but importantly also the seat support it is installed onto as the 1st point of contact. So before ANY of its energy will get to disperse through the isolators into the main frame.

    Basically, the seat/brackets become a primary element all the tactile will travel through.

    I'm by no means a d.i.y handyman neither. Although it's not very hard from a d.i.y perspective to take a bit of cut wood and cut then fold/glue rubber onto it. ;)

    Use a suitable rubber floor glue, some stick in minutes and will not have a too strong smell.
    Something like this spray on applicator perhaps
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2017
  20. Mr Latte

    Mr Latte
    Premium

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    Some additional research and looking at alternative options not covered in our PM...
    I have no self-experience of these but the company is UK based and may be worth giving a ring with some queries you may have.

    A few good looking solutions here but again prices may vary with things you are considering.
    Many of these options I have not seen people build into 8020 rigs or even try to offer a more professional application towards improving tactile performance. Sim Labs and others like Heusinkveld that sell 8020 cockpits have absolutely nothing for considering and accommodating tactile instalations available to purchase.

    Hello..... @DesKane & @Signman

    Sandwich Mounts
    A possible alternative for the 8020 seat section to using Buttkicker IR.

    Anti-vibration Levelling Foot M8
    Not sure if suits your 8020 using M8?
    Alternative is use L bracket for 8020 and bigger M8 with 60mm diameter
    (approx same dia size as TI 100 isolators)

    Various
    Plenty of stuff, no prices on rubber sheeting.

    Info On Rubber Sheeting
    Technical info but call company on "matting" and "sheeting" options for your application.

    More On Rubber Sheeting
    Something that looks visible pleasing will maintain professional look to cockpit.

    Alternative Storefront (additional pics and prices)

    Plenty to consider but I see many people copying elements of popular 8020 designs yet not being that creative when it comes to adding/installing or considering tactile. Much more can be done for sure to enhance the tactile performance on such builds.

    I'd like to encourage it....
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2017