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Tactile Immersion - General Discussion - Hardware & Software

Discussion in 'Sim Racing Hardware' started by Mr Latte, Jun 29, 2017.

  1. Mr Latte

    Mr Latte
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    So as these forums do not seem to have a place specific for general chat, questions or people sharing their own tactile experiences. I thought it might be a good thing to start one.

    General banter, or show your rigs, discuss what you have, perhaps what you like or dislike.
    Technical queries, issues or offer your own user opinions and experiences. What has excited you or has left you wondering or scratching your head?
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2017
  2. paulopsx2

    paulopsx2

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    great.... follow.
     
  3. Smoothchat

    Smoothchat

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    Loving my NLR V3, but looking to fill some tactile gaps with small vibrations etc.

    Buttkicker may be the way to go, but no 240v stock at the moment, so I have gone for the Jetseat and SimShaker for the time being. (https://andres.shop/) Lots of discussion here re: flightsim use .. https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=175028. and racing use https://dreamsimteam.blogspot.com.au/

    I think this might also solve a static electricity issue I have with my seat. I keep charging up and risking zapping my gear (cheap rayon trousers). The Jetseat overlay might help isolate me.

    I will report back with my findings on the tactile effects when I get a chance to check it out.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017
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  4. Mr Latte

    Mr Latte
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    Look forward to your reactions with it, will check out those links so thanks for posting.
    Not tried the seat itself yet.

    I was impressed with how SSW on tactile gave some very nice sensations.
    Particularly liked the "Wheel Slip" and "Deceleration" effects, it's a bargain and great entry into tactile.

    Several places offer international shipping on BK and there are many amplifier options that can be used with them. Which country you in?
     
  5. Smoothchat

    Smoothchat

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    Australia. Any suggestions where I could get a 220/240v Gamer 2 at reasonable prices?

    Thanks.
     
  6. Mr Latte

    Mr Latte
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    BK Gamer 2 seems to be in shortage as I have seen others trying to get it recently with little success.
    An alternative you may find locally in "musical specialist" stores is the Pearl THMP-1 Throne Thumper.

    This is like the Gamer 2 in that the BK is on a clamp mechanism but it comes with a 200w amp and is based on the larger Buttkicker Advance model. RSeat cockpits have used these in the past on their products.

    If importing you will of course likely have import tax/duty fees also to pay.
    But linked supplier offers 3 year warranty. See details below...

    Product Official Page
    Available Here - Ships to Australia see Info On Shipping to Australia

    Alternative Buttkicker MIni LFE

    Budget Amp (Can Power 2 Units)
    iNuke DSP 1000 Amp (Great Amp For Tactile / Powers 2 Units)
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017
  7. Mr Latte

    Mr Latte
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    Not seen anyone talk much about it.
    What are users thoughts on Simvibes new "Oversteer Effect"?
     
  8. paulopsx2

    paulopsx2

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    How to CREATE a simvibe effects? i try to copy effects from game to another, but dont work...
     
  9. signman

    signman
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    I'd also like to hear more on this.
     
  10. Mr Latte

    Mr Latte
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    Its possible to "Duplicate a profile" (with all the settings/layers) and then rename and use it on other titles by selecting the title. Alternatively, you can download some from the members market. (some though are terrible, so it's hit/miss with them)

    The interface is a bit naff, as its not possible when making profiles to copy/paste layers or to take effects in CM - EM output channels. For CM and each EM channel, they have to be manually input.


    Would be interesting to compare to the effects in Sim Shaker Wheels.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2017
  11. signman

    signman
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    The effect's that are coming through my rim in Assetto especially are already very impressive.

    Simsteering 2, Bodnar - Kollmorgen 53 servo
     
  12. eSEA One

    eSEA One
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    @Mr Latte
    Being on a tight budget some time ago I got four of these Body Shakers

    For a while I have been running the 4 Body Shakers on some cheap LEPY LP-168HA,
    both I believe are not producing the power they state but having said that I have managed to get some decent immersion and feedback be it on the light side.
    Recently I bought 2 Bass shakers:
    But now I need to upgrade the amps, as the puny Lepy's are showing their cheapness and struggle to power the Bass shakers. (Yes I know under-powering is not good) Once again on a budget. Would I be foolish to get something like a multi channel amp like the folowing:
    Auna ALP406CH or the 6 x 100Watt Class-D Audio Amplifier Board
    I want to run both chassis and extensions mode.
    My setup at the moment is the Bass shakers are under my seat, left and right, two of the Body Shakers are under the pedals, left and right, the last two will either go under the seat for general ambient feedback
     
  13. Mr Latte

    Mr Latte
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    Hi, thanks for posting here with your query..
    Gonna give you a detailed response...

    Tactile model you linked looks similar to the Reckhorn unit but if you can post the specs we can compare.

    I had at one point considered looking into "Multichannel Car Amps", firstly as they use the 4ohm resistance and places like youtube are full of videos of people modifying PC Power supplies to run them. I have even helped in PM people in the past using such. To some extremes, it seems too good to be true when we see the prices for many of these car amps.

    Lots of options in this field and some of the marketing with PMPO wattages are just bonkers. I would personally go for a well known branded product or one that has already good customer feedback as being suitable and working well. Don't underestimate how hard an amp has to work when you're trying to amplify multiple channels containing constant low frequencies. Simvibe can place more demands with bass frequencies than traditional sources like music or even movies. This should be taken into account as well.

    I did once consider this product...


    Yet the issue for me was, while these may be fine for budget tactile options right upto the ADX units. How well could this operate in powering say 4 Buttkicker Mini models that operate from very low frequencies? This is also an aspect for some old school AV amplifiers with multi-channel inputs and supporting 5-7 channels of amplification. They too were never intended to power 6 subwoofers and it is amps that are designed for the demands of subs or large woofer drivers that can perform well with all tactile including the higher end, most demanding transducers/shaker models.

    1 2 4 6 8 Channels?
    I think many people get excited about the desire to have 4-8 channels in seeing more is always better experience or immersion. While Chassis Mode can bring advantages.Yet what is truely better for most people? 2 or 4 channels with good amplification and better performance amps/tactile units, what about 4, 6, even 8 units with more affordable tactile models and budget amplification? It's that "Quantity Vs Quality" factor isnt it....

    The amp you linked may work fine with what tactile transducers you are using but it wouldn't be my preference of choice to just find a cheap 6 channel solution but I understand the desire/ability to have 1 amp power multiple channels. Even the possibility to control these amps with a car head unit. To be honest I do not have the experience with car audio and while this or something like the Pioneer shown may be okay I will link other options I can stand over in knowing they are worth buying.

    Other Options
    A small tidy amplifier that many have used in tactile and seems to perform rather well.
    While it has upto 10% distortion at max output you will not use it close to this with the tactile you have purchased. Therefore the amp will be well within its limits and have much less distortion being output.

    I mentioned this SMSL SA-98E 2x160W AMP in some of my other threads....
    Is sold worldwide, compact and tidy, it also works really well with tactile models right up to the Mini LFE or possibly even the bigger Advance model with good placement and isolation for its installation.

    The iNuke DSP 1000 and 3000 is still in my view the best amps for tactile for the money. Side-stepping a lot of their additional abilities. These amps are designed to power large woofer drivers and also many have used them for years in home cinema installations to power rather large and demanding subs with good results.

    The amp is an important factor. I think as individuals we have to ask, do I want a cheap entry level solution that will be fine for the level of tactile the user owns or is purchasing. Or do they consider buying a better amplifier that will not need to be upgraded if at some point they decide to upgrade the actual tactile units they have?

    With a well-known amp many others are using then you have this confidence. This would be the concern I have in the reliability of such car amps meeting the requirements that especially (bigger tactile) may require with the high demands sub harmonic / low frequencies put on such amps and that the bigger or more upmarket tactile transducers/shakers can properly deliver.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2017
  14. Mr Latte

    Mr Latte
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    Better Gear Effects?

    Spent some time today looking into exploring one advantage SSW has over Simvibe.
    These illustrations do not show specific sub harmonic frequencies but gives an idea what is happening. Clearly we can see the difference to standard sine wave tone to a "sound file" containing many tones operating and the harmonics each is creating.

    I will look more into this over the coming weeks, when I take the notion of playing around.
    Just an early mess about, still gonna need some work and tweaking as exploring possible options.

    So, testing of 3 different WAV files, attempting to create much more detailed "Gear Changes" and not just a restricted THUMP only type response.
    [​IMG]

    Here is the default SSW "Gear" effect with a single tone and a custom one I had previously used.
    [​IMG]

    Now a combination of "Audio File" & "Tone" using a low pass filter to 100Hz with -6dB per octave.
    [​IMG]

    @=Andre=
    Are you able to provide independent "effect" operation for UP & DOWN shifts?
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2017
  15. eSEA One

    eSEA One
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    The Bass Shakers info:
    • RMS Power Handling: 100 W//Peak Power Handling: 200 W
    • Impedance: 4 Ohms
    • Four point compression fitting
    • Diameter: 15.8 cm//Height: 4.5 cm
    I have looked at the "SMSL SA-98E 2x160W AMP " amp's, it seems that these come up a lot in discussions regarding Simvibe and that maybe that's where I should head. Start of with just one then see hos it goes.
     
  16. Mr Latte

    Mr Latte
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    Yeah as I thought, here are the Reckhorn Specs
    The SMSL does perform rather well it seems and isn't a bad price in a compelling little form factor.
    The 100W will be easily covered by the SMSL and be keeping it well below the units max potential (always a good thing). If using Simvibe you may well require only about 1/2 amp volume but this is only an estimate as how hard you run the tactile from a wattage perspective will also depend on where you have them installed, how and rig materials.

    You can get almost 2x SMSL SA-98E for the price of 1x iNuke DSP 1000 (EU/UK prices have went up in past year) so it's quite a bit more expensive now but does bring additional benefits and the ability or comfort in mind that it will power pretty much any tactile/shaker you can throw at it.

    Hope it's some help, please come back and share with us your install and findings whatever you decide friend...
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2017
  17. AntoN_CheZ

    AntoN_CheZ
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    I have 2 of the SMSL amps, the 100 watt version I think. Running chassis mode with Aura's. They've been great. Simple, compact, plenty of power and nice looking too. For a year they have been good to me. Not sure about longevity but will have to wait and see. Great price for the performance also. Were recommended to me through forums.
     
  18. Mr Latte

    Mr Latte
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    Glad your enjoying yours and yes they do seem reliable too....

    I think quite a few people go for them to power modles like the Dayton, Bass Pumps, Reckhorn, ADX and the Aura Pro tactile. Ive seen them in 120w and 160w flavours in the UK for under £100 or @ US $100

    Care Needed
    Some disadvantages are it having no wattage limiter control nor clipping indicator.
    With it having high wattage output, care may need to be taken not to overpower some entry level tactile that may only need 50-100 watts. Additionally if some effects are set too strong in Simvibe.

    However it is possible and recommended to turn on a clipping indicator in Simvibe to show if/when some effects may be causing it. Engine effects beyond (-2dB default) can be one such cause.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2017
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  19. AntoN_CheZ

    AntoN_CheZ
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    I just limit the dial to an approximate wattage output. I can't remember the exact numbers now as I have set it and forget it, but I worked out that according to max power output of the amps, my Aura's (2 per amp) needed around 3/4 of the dial for optimum output. Being, enough power to drive them to a good level but with enough left in the tank so that they are not working 100% at all times. It's just a little manual math that you need to pay attention to, and hope that the power output on the amp is linear enough to make your calculation accurate. I love my set up, especially with the motion, it negates the need for the shakers to do a lot of work. Just a complimentary feature they are now, but still very important.
     
  20. Mr Latte

    Mr Latte
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    Amps don't necessarily work as you may think in that 50% volume dial is equal to 50% of total output. Some amps offer very little additional wattage the closer you get to the max of the dial.

    That's an advantage with the iNuke DSP as a person can digitally limit to a set wattage of the tactile being used. Ensuring the amp won't go above it regardless of the volume knob adjustment.