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Tactile Immersion - General Discussion - Hardware & Software

Discussion in 'Sim Racing Hardware' started by Mr Latte, Jun 29, 2017.

  1. Monkiusz

    Monkiusz

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    Yes, something is working, thank you very for your help. But for me my journey with low input signal isn't finished yet (but I had some fun today using my method - boosting a signal via filters and gain knobs on iNuke).

    I'm using optical out (don't have HDMI input in my receiver even). Why do you think I might need decoder (some additional device)? I want to keep my amp in the chain. I want rather come back to adding there my TV (and still use my receiver for TV and Apple Tv), how it was before.

    Two things still keeps bugging me about low signal when using my receiver. First - this Cleanbox Pro device (what Buttkicker company suggested me to buy) and second one is a pre-amp output on my receiver (RCA). Maybe my receiver send stronger signal than from sub out and then Cleanbox Pro or similar device isn't necessary? Buttkicker company support is very good btw. Here is what they told me:

    " iNuke is a "Pro" style amp. It's expecting a 1.25 to 1.5V signal strength. You'll need to use a pre-amp (such as this https://www.amazon.com/ART-CLEANBoxPro-2-channel-Unbalanced-Converter/dp/B003S7T49K or similar) to boost the input signal to drive that amp. (...) Unfortunately consumer AV Receivers aren't capable of driving Pro / PA style amps. A PC sound card has a higher signal output voltage than a home theater AVR. An AVR typically is 350mV to 500mV while a soundcard often provides 1V to 2V. The Harman Kardon 3490 lists 200mV. (...) It's very common to use a pre-amp any time a consumer receiver is used to send signal to a Pro Level amp. Typically, anytime you move from RCA to XLR you'll need to boost the signal strength. (...) the pre-amp would be between the HK and the iNuke. The subwoofer output is a mono signal and only needs a signal cable."
     
  2. Mr Latte

    Mr Latte
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    Ah, so now you know why I asked you to try alternative sources and do a direct connection to iNuke.
    Lots of AV amplifiers have a gain level setting for the .1 LFE channel output but not on yours as you have confirmed. The model you have seems rather basic as an AV amp with few I/O options and certainly more limited compared to what I had expected it to be like.

    Clearly Buttkickers recommendation isn't working so well though is it?

    I think, in having a brief read at the manual for your AV receiver the issue your having is with the amps subwoofer switch control and auto-triggering. My advice would be to, try either the record out or pre-amp out using both L/R with a Stereo RCA - Mono XLR into iNuke if you have no joy by messing around with the switches for the sub out on the back.

    iNuke DSP Crossover section alone, can boost an "output" from the iNuke by up to 12dB
    The volume knobs increase the signal strength into the iNuke but loads of people have been using consoles or other sources coming from AV receiver outputs into iNukes with no problems.

    Read what your manual states about the sub-switches operation.
    I believe this is the culprit with your system, hope its some help.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2017
  3. Miguel Gonzalez

    Miguel Gonzalez

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    I'm in the process of mounting my new shakers (trying to retrofit them upright instead of at the 90 degree i originally installed them) and im thinking about isolation. My frame is 80/20 and MDF, the skeleton is 80/20 and my bucket seat assembly is 3/4 mdf with a 2 part eurethane seat. My rig right now sits in my room and it sits on carpet. Its not really feasable to put feet on the rig and the MDF without going through a lot of work and retrofitting but it might be possible to put down a rubber mat or something underneath the whole rig. My house is single story so i dont really have to worry about noise or neighbors. Is carpeting enough to isolate the rig from losing the vibrations or is it worth putting down a long mat to isolate it from the floor. And if so whats the difference between the mat and the surface below the rig?
     
  4. Zoof2

    Zoof2

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    Have just set up my reckhorn bass shakers running from a qtx pro series power amplifier . The feedback feels pretty good but its my first set up so not sure how much more to expect from the reckhorns.
    Couple of questions.....
    Would it be beneficial to add in a subwoofer eqaulizer crossover control regulator for frequency control ?
    Is it normal to also get some audio from the bassshakers along with the vibrations ?
     
  5. Monkiusz

    Monkiusz

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    Mr Latte - thank you again. I’m afraid those switches do nothing to the signal. I read manual and tried different configurations with them. I try to contact with Art company and talk with them about that Cleanbox I have. Now it’s not sending signal at all so maybe this device is faulty or it’s something with additional cable which I use with it.

    Anyway - I can enjoy Buttkicker with my settings so if it will not destroy my iNuke - I can live with that, enjoying movies and games.
     
  6. Mr Latte

    Mr Latte
    Premium

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    You should not need the Cleanbox hardware.
    Check if your AV amp has any gain control for inputs and the input you have connected to. It may not but many AV amps do to then balance different sources.

    I would try preout from your AV amp
    Using a Stereo RCA - XLR cable into "Channel A" of iNuke amp.

    Then use iNuke DSP via " Remote Connect" software and increase volume dial - 1 or 2PM position.

    On the software; look at the meter level for "Input" on "Channel A" thats connected and with source playing.

    Use the gain setting in crossover if you want to increase the "Output level" to the "Buttkicker". You should be able to have enough output using the gain control and keep the amp volume knob around that 1-2PM position.

    Get this working and try different sources.
    If you need different "Gain" for each source, it's easy in iNuke to save each as an individual preset.
     
  7. Monkiusz

    Monkiusz

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    It doesn’t have such thing. I belive Buttkicker company had some situations similar to mine in the past with home amps so I rather trust them with this solution, you know...

    „I would try preout from your AV amp
    Using a Stereo RCA - XLR cable into "Channel A" of iNuke amp”

    Yup, maybe I will try that in the future, that was one of my ideas too. But do I really need to do this if everything works just fine now?

    Today I played some Dirt Rally and man, this game is again wirth playing with Buttkicker, even with it’s bugged ffb on T300 wheel on PS4.
     
  8. Zoof2

    Zoof2

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    Just did a hour long session using my nee reckhorn bass shakers and they became really hot... is this normal or am I driving them to hard or maybe not set them up correctly . They are run from my headphone output as I cant seem to get any sound from the sub out on my PC ...
    Any advice would be appreciated .
     
  9. Ferenczy36

    Ferenczy36

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    This seems like the place for me to chime in as someone getting ready to setup his first sim cockpit with tactile immersion. I'm certain there are far better rigs out there, but on a shot in the dark I asked for a xmas gift from the wife in the form of a cheapo cockpit on Amazon that is basically just the frame with wheel, pedal, and shifter mounting points, and a place to mount a car seat (see link below). I've got an old Miata car seat that I am going to mount on it, along with my new Fanatec CSL Elite base, load cell pedals, and clubsport shifter. (https://www.amazon.com/VEVOR-Playseat-Driving-Simulator-Included/dp/B073ZVYW2C)
    Now I want to go the extra step with a few shakers. Been reading up on things and going to go SimVibe with a Buttkicker LFE SimVibe Edition shaker for the seat, but not totally sure of which ones to use on the pedals and the shifter. I see some are using these smaller Dayton puck transducers, but want to make sure something like this would produce enough oomph to feel them? Main effects I want to capture is engine idle and revving, shifting, and of course road feedback. Sounds like the popular choice for amps are the Behringer iNuke DSPs. Like to get things figured out and ordered so day after Christmas, I can begin putting everything together.
     
  10. DM77

    DM77
    Premium

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    You could be overdriving them if they are getting hot. I have my Pair of ADX limited to 50watts at 4ohms using the controls on my iNuke and they stay pretty cool.
     
  11. Milkie

    Milkie

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    If you are sending them a full range signal, then this will be why they are getting hot. Bass speakers/transducers do not like full range signals, the higher frequencies can make them overheat them. You need an EQ or a better still a Low Pass Filter so you can only send/filter the lower bass frequencies to the transducer.
     
  12. Zoof2

    Zoof2

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    Thanks for the reply I have think that is the problem as im getting some audio through as well . Both shakers currently run from my power amp but ive just ordered this below ...

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Subwoofer-Equalizer-Crossover-Amplifier-Regulator/dp/B01IEGTDB8

    Is this the sort of thing u mean as I can adjust the frequency between my pc and amp with this device.
     
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  13. Milkie

    Milkie

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    I have the same filter that you have ordered. It is not a true Low Pass Filter, it is pretty rubbish, but it is better than no filter. Really it is just a tone control and a volume knob. I have bought one of these:

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DC-12V-2...638317?hash=item210169e6ad:g:ibkAAOSwTapV3c3b

    I haven't installed it yet, I have just soldered the RCA sockets and a switch in. I have designed a case, but need to print it and probably make some adjustments. Currently busy building a sim rig, hopefully by the end of the weekend I'll be able to tell you if the new filter is any good.

    Your other option, as you already have a power amp, is to buy a graphic EQ that has a Low Pass Filter built in. I think the Behringer UltraGraph has a LPF built in. The other option is to sell the PA and buy a iNuke which has loads of controls (EQ/Compresser) built in.
     
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  14. DM77

    DM77
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    Thats the other thing I forgot to mention about my config. I used the Behringer DSP1000's DSP function to set a low pass filter on both channels, mainly to get rid of vocalisation through the transducers. I didnt even realise a full range signal would cause overheating.
     
  15. Zoof2

    Zoof2

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    Dissapointed was hoping that would solve my problem with the shakers . I think I may have to bite the bullet and purchase an inuke . Does the inuke have two channels and use rca inputs and normal speaker out connections ?
     
  16. DM77

    DM77
    Premium

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    The Inuke solves a lot of problems, and allows you to tweak each shaker individually to the best frequency performance you are likely to achieve.

    It supports 2 channels, uses XLR instead of RCA, and uses Speakon connectors instead of normal speaker out connections.
     
  17. Mr Latte

    Mr Latte
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    Can you confirm:
    Is the overheating source related, what sources are you using?
    Did you buy the recommended (16 gauge) cabling for these transducers?


    The beauty of the iNuke amps is being able to upgrade your tactile eventually and the same amp can be used. Its probably more costly to buy an EQ and Cheap amp than it is to get the iNuke DSP 1000. Indeed certainly consider one.

    The noises you hear are likely harmonics, this is normal but will of course be much more audible with no frequency filtering and if using full range audio sources.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2017
  18. Zoof2

    Zoof2

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    Ive checked that I have the 16 gauge mic cable

    I have also now moved the transducer which became hot . It was my seat transducer and I think my original placement caused the air vent on top of the reckhorn shaker to be covered which im guessing played a part as no over heat since.
    I had a play with the short trial version of SSW software last night and it made a huge difference in the feedback from the transducers.
    Unfortunatley i was unable to get my audio from the headphones at the same time so im off to by a second soundcard today to install into my pc to get round that issue .
    #Really trying to learn about this stuff as I go !!
     
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  19. signman

    signman
    Premium

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    Will try these latest set's Rod..Thank you

    Been busy last few day's.
     
  20. Mr Latte

    Mr Latte
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    Thanks for replying.

    Full range audio, I do not believe is the issue as the tactile unit will only generate frequencies within its specifications. Well, for instance, some Clark TST models offer tactile up to 800Hz but they will work with full range audio no problems generating audio like a speaker also.

    The ventilation may of been an issue but often overheating can come from the unit being over-driven regards an amps wattage output or specific Hz from (effects being used) with these then constantly in operation with high levels of amplitude. Telemetry-based tactile like SSW or Simvibe (or other) can be quite demanding on tactile units, moreso than typical audio.

    Without audio monitoring of the effects the user cant see how layers or multple generated effects alter the complete audio output. An example from Simvibe would be multiple effects or layers all operating and using similar frequencies with rather high levels of gain for each effect. These then multiple effects or layers will increase the gain of those frequencies being used. As they build up its common that frequencies will be peaking beyond + 3dB and this may then cause clipping.

    That is one of the things I believe for those with Simvibe (Auto Tune) helps to try and prevent but it does nothing to generate "good effects" from poor settings.

    As SSW allows full creation of the waveform for its effects. Then it perhaps helps give more control in creating effects that may help prevent this. With iNuke DSP we can also prevent this and tailor the amps output to suit the tactile and installation, it's much much better than what Simvibe Autotune does.

    No worries, given you plenty of new SSW effect files to keep you busy.
    Look forward to your feedback and comments to help determine what goes into the public release.
    SSW is feeling very good now on my own rig and tactile.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2017