Cars VRC Formula NA 2012 and 2018

[MHS]

We will take a look at that Nice appreciation!

 

[CC]

We will take a look at that Nice appreciation!

Can you take a look at this hole on the right side of the car side pods also,
its in both versions, also the seam around the panel does not quite seem sealed also,
quite some gaps there in it not been welded correctly, which is not that visible,
but the hole maybe could do with some sticky tape on it.

 

[asehauDLM]

We will take a look at that Nice appreciation!

Sorry to bother you again but after looking at the pictures I've posted earlier I noticed another two details that are different on the NA18 compared to the IR18.

1. The fin on the engine cover is too small and it's missing the characteristic kink/bend/change of direction (the Penske shots are the best ones to compare).

2. The fin on the front of the car is too small as well, especially towards the cockpit it should be noticeably bigger (again, have a look at the Penske pics for comparison).
You barely notice the cockpit fin on the NA18 but you can see the fin very clearly on the IR18.

As I've said earlier, two small details that have a big impact on the overall look of the car.
Especially the engine cover fin has a huge impact, the IR18 looks 'bigger' with the bigger fin while the NA18 looks a bit 'flat' with that smaller fin.

That's all I've noticed so far, I think the rest of the NA18 is pretty much spot on.

 

[Ryno917]

Here are some unofficial renders (they look spot on to me though):
https://twitter.com/chrisduffbeatty/status/885831824500568065

Just as a side note, and because he totally deserves the recognition for this beautiful car, those renders are only "unofficial" inasmuch as they weren't used by Indycar themselves; Chris Beatty is the guy who designed the new bodykit and those renders are done with official files

2. The fin on the front of the car is too small as well, especially towards the cockpit it should be noticeably bigger (again, have a look at the Penske pics for comparison).
You barely notice the cockpit fin on the NA18 but you can see the fin very clearly on the IR18.

And as an addition note, if you guys are going to look at updating the nose fin, IIRC there's a difference in mapping methodology; there's a small section of it in the middle that isn't mapped from the side like the rest of it is, so it can be hard to make it match the rest of the fin in some cases; also the shading layer is different in this section which is really noticeable on lighter coloured cars.

Also, if you guys are looking into updates, as I mentioned back closer to release I'd love if the carbon parts weren't darkened by the shader used, and were instead darkened by the AO or just a darker carbon texture so that we could paint these areas. I made a change to the shader settings for my own use, but I'm sure a few livery makers would welcome the change, too. For instance, in the release version it isn't possible to get the fluorescent yellow on the front wing of Robert Wickens' car because that spot is artificially darkened by the shader

 

[asehauDLM]

We will take a look at that Nice appreciation!

I guess at this point you're just annoyed by my countless posts but I think that the first thing which I will mention is equally as important as the rear wing position. The other couple of things are debatable but I will mention them anyways.

So, the first and most important part of my post is about the roll hoop shape and thickness when looking from the front.
1: The roll hoop on the NA18 is shaped like a triangle with a round edge on the top while the roll hoop on the IR18 is more shaped like a parabola, it looks wider/fuller.
2: The actual roll hoop on the NA18 is quite thin while the roll hoop on the IR18 is thicker/beefier, it looks more massive than the NA18 roll hoop.

I was driving the NA18 for a bit today and in replay I always thought 'hm, something is off, especially when looking from the front, the car looks 'thin' at the top.' And the roll hoop is the reason for that.
I've also included some shots from the rear of the car.

I also noticed that the rear wing endplates on the IR18 are bent heavier than the NA18 endplates but I think that the roll hoop has a much bigger impact on the overall look of the car. Also the curves/angle changes on the NA18 endplates are pretty sharp, on the IR18 the endplate curves are much more smooth/fluent.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Remember when I said that the fin on the engine cover is too small?
Just increasing the size of the fin isn't enough actually, the car looks 'flat' from the side because the actual engine cover (without the fin) is too flat. I roughly marked the shape of the engine cover in my pics to give you an idea.
But I would understand if you only edit the fin and leave the engine cover as it is because I think that changing the engine cover itself is much more work than reworking the fin only.

Another minor detail I've noticed on the roll hoop when looking from the side (minor detail because it doesn't have that much of an impact on the overall look, rear wing position and roll hoop from the front are much more important):
When looking from the side the IR18 roll hoop is a bit wider than the NA18 roll hoop and the part of the roll hoop that extends towards the rear of the car is longer on the IR18 (I've also roughly marked the shapes from the side). The angles are all a bit different as well.



This shot from Alexander Rossi gives you another nice look concerning the bigger engine cover, edited fin and adjusted roll hoop shape (side view).

Summary:

As I've said earlier, rear wing position and roll hoop geometry (frontal view) have the biggest impact on the overall look. The shape of the engine cover is a close second though, especially in side view the car would look a lot better with that bigger engine cover. Just changing the engine cover fin might be a compromise but the car would still be too flat in that case.
Extending the roll hoop further towards the rear (side view) and adjusting the angles a bit would be welcomed but getting the engine cover and the fin right would be more important in my opinion than editing the roll hoop (side view).
The fin on the front should be a quick fix compared to the stuff I've mentioned above and reworking the rear wing endplates would be nice, but it certainly isn't a 'must'.

All of the things mentioned also apply to the Oval version of the car (except the rear wing position of course).

Well, I hope I don't come across as a dude who doesn't appreciate your work.
VRC and RSS are the teams that keep creating fantastic open wheel cars for AC so you have my highest respect for all the mods that you've created so far.

But since I've started giving feedback on the 3d model I wanted to give proper and usable feedback and I promise, that was my last post about it.
Because everything else from physics, to sounds, to overall quality is exceptional on the NA18.
And since IndyCar will keep using this car for a couple of more seasons it would actually be worth it to invest some more time into fixing certain areas of the 3d model.

Cheers!

 

[MHS]

Hey! I highly agree on almost all the things you said. Have in mind that sometimes comparing to those early days renders can't be accurate, but fur sure comparing our model to photos of the real thing, can't lie. Also you have to take in count the angle, perspective, fov of the camera, as you know camera matching is way harder than just tracing lines and trying to make those lines match in different pics.

Anyhow, as I said I agree on almost everything you pointed out, but I'm just trying to point out that it won't be that easy to match our model to the real car, so don't expect an update soon, but rest asured we will look into those details. Then we would need to decide what to do, because all the skins already created for the mod won't be compatible with the new model.

Will keep you updated as soon as we start working out those details.

 

[GT VIRUS]

I would say that It's a Formula NA not an Indycar, and shouldn't be compared to the real thing (Ya know, for legality sake )

 

[CC]

I would say that It's a Formula NA not an Indycar, and shouldn't be compared to the real thing (Ya know, for legality sake )

You have to take into consideration regarding payware that there may be some slight differences or variations, specially on such a high profile car like the indycar very popular,

and like DLM is saying there is visible differences, and its clear to see, sometimes I change things slightly intentionally but as long as the content is 95% or there abouts accurate to what you are making, then no harm no foul so to speak,

I wouldnt go off renders of a pre release car specially not from Dallara, I made so much of these cars and they do change quite a bit in places to the final versions happens so often,

the car looks great, has loads of details and the geometry is quite high, I believe the tyres are the smoothest I have ever seen in any game must have 128+ sides there crazy high,

these cars are designed to replicate something to a certain extent, the audio is very pleasing and the physics and the liveries and details are lovely also,
it is what it is, I wouldnt be expecting a full rebuild the work fixing the UV and remaking all the liveries alone would be a nightmare,

id expect to see that hole in the side pod fixed and the gaps welded, that be a nice update in my opinion,
non the less like I was saying its payware content and it looks great.

 

[ACFAN]

sound improvements

2018 is in the works

 

[IMrIMike]

sound improvements

How respectful.

 

[matt18333]

How respectful.

While it might not look it I'm sure he didnt mean any disrespect by it going off other forums I've seen ACFAN in, well I'd hope not anyway.

The vanilla VRC sounds are fantastic imo, some just might prefer a different approach I guess.

 

[ACFAN]

How respectful.

I'm terribly sorry, didn't realise it could be read and interpreted that way

I just wanted this awesome car mod to have those helmet cam sounds that's all. People seem to like it

2018 has been released as well

 

[IMrIMike]

While it might not look it I'm sure he didnt mean any disrespect by it going off other forums I've seen ACFAN in, well I'd hope not anyway.

The vanilla VRC sounds are fantastic imo, some just might prefer a different approach I guess.

I'm terribly sorry, didn't realise it could be read and interpreted that way

I just wanted this awesome car mod to have those helmet cam sounds that's all. People seem to like it

2018 has been released as well

It's not that, I have no problem whatsoever with 'alternative sounds' for those cars. I highly appreciate different approaches in fact, it's very interesting. That's what modding is about.

It's the way it's been posted here. Appreciate you clarifying you didn't mean it that way, all good then

 

[386]

they are nice sounds but there are better sources for IndyCar audio then the ones you used ACFAN

 

[Delta7Fox]

Added real billboards for the "Formula NA SouthStar MotorSpeedway"
https://www.racedepartment.com/down...tar-motorspeedway-real-billboards-2018.25807/

Reworked the Infield grass and more ...

 

[MHS]

The Formula NA Package has been updated to V1.5!
Update includes fixes for some of the FNA2018 model problems you have mentioned here. We still need to check the rear wing position and the fins size, as well as the roll hoop but as I said earlier it's likely that those changes will make all created skins incompatible.

 

[Jebus]

I have 1999 car only, was it updated too?

 

[formulaHEINE]

I have 1999 car only, was it updated too?

Yes, but only an UI change.

v1.3 (2019/04/29):
-Changed UI “brand” to VRC.

 

[Billy Pilgrim]

it's likely that those changes will make all created skins incompatible

Pity
Could you be clear about what is affected?. NA 2012? NA 2018? NA 1999 is just UI?

 

[formulaHEINE]

Pity
Could you be clear about what is affected?. NA 2012? NA 2018? NA 1999 is just UI?

The info is on the page of the Formula NA package under the 'version history' tab:
https://vrc-modding-team.net/show/package/1

v1.5 (2019/04/29):
-Changed UI “brand” to VRC for all cars.
-FNA2018: Fixed hole in the right sidepod.
-FNA2018: Fixed and improved UVs around cockpit area.
-FNA2018: New AO around cockpit area (old skins will need AO replacement).
-FNA2018: New 2D template with fixed AO.