F1 2012 'Understeer' is actually faulty grip levels: CM fix inside

[MS7XWDC]

CM explains why there IS an understeer issue:

"Hi guys, just to let you know that we’ve adjusted track information that will provide a more uniform level of grip across the entire surface. This update will be going live in patch #4 later today.

We’ll post the patch notes later this afternoon!"

grip levels needed to be more uniform

 

[Peter Hooper]

Good point but it depends how much they change the offline grip levels really.

 

[MS7XWDC]

the only problem with the current system is that it basically forced drivers to have one "style".

Different drivers will use different entry points and what not to set up for the next set of corners or for a pass or whatever. The way the grip was initially, you just couldn't do that because if you "missed" the line the game said you should be on...you were cooked.

spot on !

 

[Finn]

Man does anyone know about when patches are available for ps3?! I'm not even sure we have the second one yet?

 

[bud7h7]

Like I said on my thread about this.. A more uniform grip level is extremely vague. Where di you get that information from, out of interest.. What is your source?

And, I don't know why you're arguing. How can there be an "understeer issue" when many people do not experience the same problems as you?

Yet so many are experienceing the same thing. This fact does not come out of thin air. Maybe those who are not experiencing the pushing are simply going slower than should be necessary in the turns then making up for lost time in the straights by running lower downforce than the real drivers would.

And "understeer" is a very general term. The game itself does not have an overall understeer issue. The cars are pushing in the turns when not accelerating.

For what it's worth, I am having some success with much softer springs and lower anti roll bars than in 2011.

 

[kelaroost]

I cant see why anyone would complain about understeer.
It is what it is and its down to the player to keep there nose in by slowing down more or turning in early.
what do they want X1s.
Hope this patch dont wreck the game

 

[MS7XWDC]

I cant see why anyone would complain about understeer.

that's odd: CM themselves said it was bothering them, so why wouldn't we notice ?

It is what it is and its down to the player to keep there nose in by slowing down more or turning in early.

if that were the case, CM would not have fixed the issue in patch 4

 

[JvMr]

Well, it's odd to call it understeer (by cm or anyone), rather than something like 'slightly too low grip levels on some parts of some tracks'..

Nothing in the balance of the car itself hasn't changed as far as I'm concerned.

 

[MS7XWDC]

fair enough ...... CM probably should have used a different phrase

 

[kelaroost]

Wouldnt it be better if people adapted like we would have to in real life,
You dont see button saying cant drive this track its more slippy on the senna s than usual.

 

[Leonardo Chaves]

I admit that the are doing that both turn in aggressively.
But you can also see, that they do it for not more than a fraction of a second, before opening the steering lock to actually go around the corner. Especially Alonso doesn't 'wait until the tyres bite'.
Also you don't know if he's just warming the tyres.
What people complain about in the game is that you can't go around any corner just with full lock. And that doesn't neither alonso nor brundle do. but it was possible in F1 2011 and many people fail to see that F1 2012 is more realistic on that aspect.

I agree with you that F1 2012 is waaaaay better than 2011 (that game was completely wrong when it came to slow speed front grip), i was just making a point that people are wrongly dismissing this real life technique.
Also adding that F1 2012 although much better than 2011 is not without it's flaws, as Paradox put it, i feel it enforces the fact that "we want you to drive this way, and no other style will do".
I think that the balance is too biased towards understeer, i have no oversteer on entry whatsoever even with a setup that should've been inducing loads of it... and that when the front goes it takes a loooooong time to come back.

And of course there are elements of finesse to every technique, if you want to be as fast as Alonso... I remember Fisichella (back in the Renault days) said he tried to force the front in like Alonso but couldn't do it.
Alonso does use it on wet track this season, haven't seen him do it on the dry.
Maldonado however, does it on qualy from time to time, on the race the fragile Pirelli's wouldn't like it one bit

Also reiterating that this is not how i drive at all, i'm just fed up with some people spouting silly drivel in defense of "their" game.

 

[Guilherme Gomes]

I cant see why anyone would complain about understeer.
It is what it is and its down to the player to keep there nose in by slowing down more or turning in early.
what do they want X1s.
Hope this patch dont wreck the game

The game being difficult or different doesn't mean it's being realistic, at all.
Everyone knows about the understeer effect, i believe people are stating that the way it is right now isn't correct or needs improvement.
It has nothing to do with adapting.
I believe even CodeMasters said that there is indeed a problem.
Let's see what they do about it.

Worst news, CM crumbled against mighty power of unskilled drivers who can't keep the car on racing line.

Sure, because pretending you're driving a F1 car in an arcade game makes you a "skilled driver". Most of the people complaining can keep their car on the track just fine, but they can also say when something isn't right.

 

[Roy Sutton]

Wouldnt it be better if people adapted like we would have to in real life,
You dont see button saying cant drive this track its more slippy on the senna s than usual.

The game being difficult or different doesn't mean it's being realistic, at all.
Everyone knows about the understeer effect, i believe people are stating that the way it is right now isn't correct or needs improvement.
It has nothing to do with adapting.
I believe even CodeMasters said that there is indeed a problem.
Let's see what they do about it.

My problem with this understeering problem is the fact that in real life drivers have different lines, some are very slight differences while others are very noticable. Racing lines are important and staying on them equally as important, but CM should add understeer to parts of corners which doesn't effect the multiple lines you can take as much as it does right now. If you start getting creative the game punishes you for deviating from the racing line. If understeer became more noticable as the tyres started to wear then that would be fine and would add more realism to the game than how it is implemented at the moment.

 

[FearTheHands]

Yet so many are experienceing the same thing. This fact does not come out of thin air. Maybe those who are not experiencing the pushing are simply going slower than should be necessary in the turns then making up for lost time in the straights by running lower downforce than the real drivers would.

Precisely my thoughts! I can only assume that those not experiencing the bug / issue (as CM admitted themselves) are running slower lap times than others are, as if I take it easy & don't push I experience no understeer at all, obviously. Maybe post your lap times so we can compare?

 

[FearTheHands]

I think that the balance is too biased towards understeer, i have no oversteer on entry whatsoever even with a setup that should've been inducing loads of it...

Another excellent point, I can set the car up so oversteer should make it un-driveable, maximum front wing, minimum rear wing, adjust springs, ride height, suspension stiffness, move the brake bias completely to the rear etc etc which all should give you snap oversteer on corner entry, but nothing!

The game does force you towards a certain "defined" driving style, which is not realistic as all drivers have differing styles that produce almost identical lap times.

Another point is the lack of realism for being able to continue braking into corner apex (as drivers do in real F1, just watch onboard with the visual graphics to see), this is extremely tricky to master & means that you need to get just about all of your braking out of the way before corner turn in (I am referring to mid speed corners particularly. Again, not an issue at all if you are not pushing.

It would be helpful to us and CM if we could have a debate & report our findings instead of either side of the fence just dismissing each other's experiences out of hand as we should be able to pick up tips & tricks to make the game more enjoyable.

After all it is a game & we play games for enjoyment surely?

For reference I experience a lot of understeer.

My experience: have been playing F1 games since Microprose GP1 & constantly since, I also ran a GP4 racing league for years.

Driver aids: all off

AI difficulty: as high as possible / legend

Controller: Logitech G27 / PC

How skilled am I?: Without being conceited, I consider myself to be a very good / good driver capable of giving any driver (online or otherwise) a good run for their money at most tracks. Some tracks I excel on, others I struggle more with, but I expect to run at the front / towards the front as I have been able to for a long time.

Would be interested to see what others are experiencing?

 

[Leonardo Chaves]

Fearthehands you citing your experience with the GP series reminded me of something...

GP4 running on default setups had horrible, horrible, awful understeer, very frustrating...
But playing with the wings, brake bias and roll bars... you could turn it into an oversteering beast.

 

[Roberto Costa]

Hopefully they havent dumbded down the excellent handling in reaction to some constant maoners on the cm forum.
Understeer wasnt really an issue for most of us.......

Totally agree with you, i really hope they haven't destroyed the car handling because some guys on CM forums cant play lol.

 

[Alberto Casado]

Everytime I read somebody calling the handling realistic or even perfect (no less!) I die a little.

Seems that every other *** game in history, and even onboard videos of real F1 got it all wrong. F12012, the one and only.

 

[Inam Ul Haq]

Sure, because pretending you're driving a F1 car in an arcade game makes you a "skilled driver". Most of the people complaining can keep their car on the track just fine, but they can also say when something isn't right.

In my opinion there is no understeer problem what so ever, you just need to play the game differently. When i frist tried the Demo trust me i was like what the hell CM have done with the handling model but after spending time and changing my style completely now i have no understeer problem and then again this is my opinion, i don't have any problem if you think otherwise. See the video below and tell me if you can see any udersteer problem:

BTW the person most complaining about understeer doesn't have the game yet.

 

[FearTheHands]

See the video below and tell me if you can see any udersteer problem

Of course not as you are driving time trial & time trial has tyre sim switched OFF. What people are referring to is game modes with tyre sim ON, such as career, co-op, custom races online etc etc. You can easily go 3 to 4 seconds per lap quicker with tyre sim off.

I'd be interested to see a video of you driving with tyre sim on.

 

[Roberto Costa]

Now im really not sure but the understeer. I've reinstalled the game today, before downloading the patches i played the game and don't know why but it looks like it had way less understeed, did some laps on Catalunya on game ver 1, times around 1:23.5, then i applied the patches and with the same setup i was doing 1.25.2 - 1.25.9. So im not sure but i believe that understeer was introduced by some of the patches.
Anyway what its bothering me is the oversteed, you can make a monster oversteer setup and you will not going to have oversteer, looks like the car doesn't have torque, you can stop the car and try to do a 180o or 360o you'll see how its hard to do it, something way unrealistic IMO.